Poll of the Day > This is 2017: Should You Fight Back Bullies Physically?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Here's the story.

In the last family gathering, some cousins talk about bullying.
Not some sissy bullying like online shitposting, but real physical bullying, like shoving the victim, taking taking money, throwing away their bags, etc etc.

Personally, I fought back.
I met bullies in junior and high school, and I always fight back. And it works for me. Even against someone who claimed to be "badass-est gangster", or whatever the fuck he said he is, it still works. He threatened me for money, I fought him. The next day, he brought his friend and shit-talked me, so I fought them. And again. And again. After the 4th fight (around 2 months period), he stopped coming. I came to his class and said, "hey gangster, I'm right here. C'mon". He just mumbled something, and ignored me. So did his friends. So I left his class, and he never talked to me again.

It hurt. I got fractured ribs, torn lips, & broken nose. I cried while fighting. I bit. I threw dust to the eyes. I clawed with nails. I got suspended. I went "everything goes" when I fought. People call me names. They mocked how dirty I fought.

And guess what? After a couple of months... it didn't matter. People forget everything and I have friends again.
Don't get me wrong, fighting hurts. It sucked. But it works.
But now I got older, I started to doubt whether I took the "correct way" to handle bully.
Is it right to advice victims of bullying to fight back (physically), especially in this day & age?
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The answer is yes and I voted for it, but I don't like the wording of the option. It is absolutely NOT the victim's fault that he or she is bullied, it's the bully's. Just because fighting back ends it doesn't mean not fighting the bully causes it.
If someone tries to mug you and you pull a gun and shoot them, you ended the mugging. That doesn't mean people who don't walk around armed cause muggings.

And yes, if someone's a bully and trying to hurt you, fuck "honor." Do whatever you have to to survive and minimize the damage *you* take. If you're going to fight, commit to it. Doesn't matter if it's "dirty," just go all out on his ass. The goal isn't even to hurt him really badly (though that may well be the means to the end you seek), it's to make him afraid to mess with you ever again. Beat the shit out of him, show no mercy, require others to pull you away, let him think you're crazy (heck, above all else, get across the message that you're crazy to him). Instill fear. That's the only way to make it stop.

If you are being physically assaulted and fight back, that is self defense.

I approve of self defense.

No, for countless reasons. First, it usually doesn't work; a lot of bullies are abused at home and, given that they're used to taking beatings from grown-ass men, your candy-ass won't be able to do much to them. Second, it escalates the violence so that one participant might bring weapons in or do something more serious. Third, you might face ramifications for your "self-defense" especially if the other guy gets seriously hurt.

Granted, there are some really wimpy bullies who you can drive off with violence but, in general, violence is the stupidest solution to the problem and usually has worse outcomes than other answers.
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streamofthesky posted...

If someone tries to mug you and you pull a gun and shoot them, you ended the mugging. That doesn't mean people who don't walk around armed cause muggings.

That's a life-or-death situation, not some playground shit.

streamofthesky posted...

And yes, if someone's a bully and trying to hurt you, fuck "honor." Do whatever you have to to survive and minimize the damage *you* take. If you're going to fight, commit to it. Doesn't matter if it's "dirty," just go all out on his ass. The goal isn't even to hurt him really badly (though that may well be the means to the end you seek), it's to make him afraid to mess with you ever again. Beat the shit out of him, show no mercy, require others to pull you away, let him think you're crazy (heck, above all else, get across the message that you're crazy to him). Instill fear. That's the only way to make it stop.

No, the best method for minimizing damage is to call for help and to run. While I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment and Stand Your Ground, I also recognize that it's fucking stupid to take damage in a fight when you could avoid the fight entirely.

Red_Frog posted...

If you are being physically assaulted and fight back, that is self defense.

I approve of self defense.

He's talking about consistent bullying, not a one-off attack. And, if you're being attacked, usually the best option is calling for help (or drawing attention) while trying to flee. Granted, if you're a shit runner and nobody is around while you're up against somebody who intends to do serious physical harm, you should grab whatever weapon is on your person or whatever you can improvise nearby and try to take your assailant down as quickly as possible.
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Also, the "This is [CURRENT YEAR]" trend is stupid.
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Zeus posted...

No, the best method for minimizing damage is to call for help and to run.

Like you said, this is about consistent bullying. Running away from a fight will just make your life worse from then on as the bully's emboldened and new bullies enticed to join in tormenting you.
Bullies are cowards. They prey on apparent weakness. If you fight back fiercely and hurt one of them, he's going to look for someone easier to pick on.
I ended up fighting bullies several times in school after putting up w/ them for months or even years and hoping it'd get better. Every single time, fighting back instantly made things better.
Maybe it depends on the bully. Not all of them are from broken homes and beaten like you seem to think. Some are pampered little shits used to getting what they want and lording over other kids.

streamofthesky posted...

Zeus posted...

No, the best method for minimizing damage is to call for help and to run.

Like you said, this is about consistent bullying. Running away from a fight will just make your life worse from then on as the bully's emboldened and new bullies enticed to join in tormenting you.
Bullies are cowards. They prey on apparent weakness. If you fight back fiercely and hurt one of them, he's going to look for someone easier to pick on.
I ended up fighting bullies several times in school after putting up w/ them for months or even years and hoping it'd get better. Every single time, fighting back instantly made things better.
Maybe it depends on the bully. Not all of them are from broken homes and beaten like you seem to think. Some are pampered little shits used to getting what they want and lording over other kids.

And in the case of consistent bullying, the best thing you can do is inform on them to a teacher. Trying to fight certainly isn't going to help. They can almost always give a lot harder than you can and, even if they can't, they'll get some of their boys to jump you as well. If they want to beat you up, they're going to do it and you're going to get hurt a LOT harder than them unless you take things too far and end up in serious trouble.

As for bullies being cowards, that's a stupid cliche. If somebody is used to fighting, they're not going to magically back down the second you show a spine. If they're willing to break rules to use violence, they're willing to up the stakes. However, if they are cowardly, getting them in trouble clearly works. If they're not cowardly, getting them in trouble will generally work as well -- since they'll eventually wind up suspended or expelled.

While everybody wants to fight because it's a more personally gratifying solution, it's the stupidest option. The potential for harm greatly outweighs any good. There's more than one way to stop being a victim of opportunity and you should opt for the ways which minimize harm to yourself. I don't know about you -- maybe you're fucking Bruce Lee or some shit -- but I've never walked completely unharmed out of a fight. And unless your solution is to sneak up on a guy and bash his skull in with a brick when he's not looking, odds are you're going to get hurt when attempting your self-help.
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These days you'd probably just get a criminal record and hurt yourself more than a bully could.

I think it's best to just tell them to fuck off. Be confident if you can. Laugh in their face. Always speak to bullies like they're "special".
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streamofthesky posted...

The answer is yes and I voted for it, but I don't like the wording of the option.

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I'm trying to look from both side here, and both has sound reason.
It boils down from each own's personal experience really.

Zeus posted...

No, the best method for minimizing damage is to call for help and to run. While I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment and Stand Your Ground, I also recognize that it's fucking stupid to take damage in a fight when you could avoid the fight entirely.

Different context of time. When I wrote "2017", it's not for some trend. It really mean something.
See, you seems young. Back in my age (+15 years ago), teacher didn't care. Bullying was considered as normal aspect in growing up. There were a lot of initiation bullshit we need to endure, which in today's perspective; could easily be considered as physical abuse and sexual harassment. We're told to make out with each other, take off our top, dance in public, endure raw punch to our stomach. See... those things were considered normal, back then.

Therefore, getting into fight until you're bleeding all over the place, is the ONLY way to get attention. It's not about "gratifying solution", it was the solution. It was the only to say, "Look here, I'm bleeding, so it's really getting out of hand."

So you're kinda wrong about why we fight. It's not about gratification, or honor, or manhood, or other useless concept. We didn't even care. We just want it to stop.

Yellow posted...

These days you'd probably just get a criminal record and hurt yourself more than a bully could.

I like this answer. I'm gonna remember this the next time my cousin ask for help.
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If someone steps to you and you turn the other cheek it's just going to invite other people to do the same. If you lay them on their ass, or even go down swinging, other people are going to see you're not the one to fuck with.
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You "should" but any person who's ever done it learned their lesson after realizing they get in just as much trouble if not more than the bully

It's bullshit
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Bullies only understand violence.
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i've had the shit beat out of me for years and years without throwing a single punch just because I was smaller
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Absolutely.

Bullies are like electric, they take the path of least resistance. The more resistance you create, the less likely they'll come to you.
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ReggieTheReckless posted...

You "should" but any person who's ever done it learned their lesson after realizing they get in just as much trouble if not more than the bully

It's bullshit

That's if you're caught, and bullies are only able to keep bullying because they don't get caught.
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Frankly, perfectly symmetrical violence solves nothing. I don't particularly care if a bully is lashing out from taking abuse from an adult at home. It wasn't my problem. A bully is looking for soft targets and after whooping a would be bully's ass once or twice they tend to move on to someone that isn't going to whoop their ass. This zero tolerance kumbaya bullshit has raised a generation of spineless wusses and I can't support that.
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I've found standing up to bullies makes the bullying stop or at least cool down in my experience. Doing nothing and taking it is just giving them a green light to carry on because they get no consequences for doing so. Standing up to them doesn't necessarily mean or need violence though.
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Zeus posted...

No, for countless reasons. First, it usually doesn't work; a lot of bullies are abused at home and, given that they're used to taking beatings from grown-ass men, your candy-ass won't be able to do much to them. Second, it escalates the violence so that one participant might bring weapons in or do something more serious. Third, you might face ramifications for your "self-defense" especially if the other guy gets seriously hurt.

Granted, there are some really wimpy bullies who you can drive off with violence but, in general, violence is the stupidest solution to the problem and usually has worse outcomes than other answers.

One of the rare times where I can say I agree wholeheartedly with Zeus.

Keep in mind most bullies who are willing to take things physical aren't doing it for kicks; they're doing it because there's something seriously fucked up elsewhere in their life (almost assuredly at home). They physically bully because that's their outlet - that's the one spot in their life where they can feel secure and superior. If you try and take that from them by fighting back, you are taking away their hope spot and they will fight like a fucking cornered animal to keep it.

And yes, it's quite possible they're facing abuse at home and, take it from a martial artist, there is no greater teacher than experience (and no "greater" experience, in terms of how fast you'll pick things up, then having to fight for your life against a drunken man who's twice your size).

Not to mention, in the age of "zero tolerance", odds are pretty good the consequences will actually be worse for the bullied than for the bully if they fight back. You think the bully gives a shit about suspensions? Of course not, it's a three day vacation from school as far as he's concerned. But if you're the sort of person who has greater aspirations in your life than working a series of Joe jobs with a high school diploma, any permanent mark on your record - like the ones that come with fighting - is going to put a serious dent in your ability to get into post secondary school.

So yeah, if things are getting dangerously physical, the adults should immediately be brought in. If you have to fight to defend yourself from imminent danger, so be it, but your next stop should be a teacher to explain what happened and you should never, ever seek out the fight yourself if you have an opportunity to walk away.
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darkknight109 posted...

Keep in mind most bullies who are willing to take things physical aren't doing it for kicks; they're doing it because there's something seriously fucked up elsewhere in their life

Bit reductionist, don't you think? The reason why you were a bully isn't applicable to everybody else.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

Keep in mind most bullies who are willing to take things physical aren't doing it for kicks; they're doing it because there's something seriously fucked up elsewhere in their life

Bit reductionist, don't you think? The reason why you were a bully isn't applicable to everybody else.

I'm assuming you're using the generic "you".

Anyways, in my experience no, kids who are seriously willing to take things physical (I.E. beyond shoving and, at worst, a few shrimpy punches and into the sort of thing the TC described) are generally damaged individuals. Learning disabilities are common, as is abuse (either past or present).

Well adjusted kids can certainly bully, but are usually not overly physical with it.
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Teachers were generally worthless for me when it comes to bullies. Even the sympathetic ones still gave talks like "I know you're in the right here, but I have to punish you both equally". Pathetic.

I have beaten people with trumpet cases, smacked them with the side of a tennis racket when they weren't looking, and tackled them to beat them with my fists. Not exceptionally proud of my methods, but it was the only thing that solved years of issues. If the powers that be won't defend you then you have every right to do it yourself.

(That said, you should avoid escalating or looking for revenge. The goal is simply to set up an obvious equation in their heads that fucking with you isn't worth the trouble. Children don't respond to much else.)

darkknight109 posted...

Not to mention, in the age of "zero tolerance", odds are pretty good the consequences will actually be worse for the bullied than for the bully if they fight back.

I don't believe so. In my experience, they've taken "zero tolerance" far beyond that point.
At this point, even being punched constitutes "being involved in a fight". Once you've hit that line, you'll receive the full punishment. As long as you don't take it any further than fist fighting, you're relatively free to do whatever you want to the other person without the punishment increasing. It's the repeat offenses that get you, severity has to be pretty drastic to have an impact.

At least it was like this 5 years ago in Virginia. Can't speak for all over I suppose.
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darkknight109 posted...

Well adjusted kids can certainly bully, but are usually not overly physical with it.

What hugbox country did you grow up in?
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I was one of the most violent kids I knew, like I needed help but was a skillful enough liar to not receive any... Around age 11, I moved and thought "fresh start" but when way too far down the passive route. I stayed in that funk until I was probably 15, before realizing that life is much easier if you're just an asshole, but that doesn't mean you need to ever be the instigator either. I found a balance that worked for me.

Then again, if I'd ever gotten beaten up, my cousin's boyfriend would've taken care of it. He knew some people that were scary as fuck. I don't remember all the details, but in one incident, some guys almost beat him to death at a party and his brothers hunted one of them down weeks later and fucked him up so bad with a fire axe that he is apparently unable to walk for the rest of his life. That was probably about 25 years ago now, and whatever feud they were having ended then and there, but holy shit, right?!?! It's unsettling to think "how many people out there are like that?"
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

What hugbox country did you grow up in?

I'm more going off of my experience working with kids, which I did for several years. Again, in my experience, the most violent ones tend to be from broken homes (disregarding the kids who had genuine mental or behavioural issues); it's much rarer for a kid from a good home to be physically violent (though they can certainly bully and be minorly violent, those are the ones who are more likely to wilt if faced with someone who actually fights back).

I was never physically bullied when I was a kid; I've been doing martial arts my entire life, and I started when I was six years old, which had the dual effect of not only teaching me how to fight but also giving me a fair amount of confidence and a generally calm demeanour when it came to conflict (physical or otherwise). The latter was far more beneficial than the former in terms of defending myself; I would never rise to bait and insults didn't bother me, so even though I was a frequent target for verbal abuse (being a quiet loner kid tends to attract that), almost none of the local bullies ever got physical with me because I didn't give them a reason to. On the rare occasions they did (probably less than five times total across my entire grade school life), I always gave a good accounting of myself - it's possible that gave me a reputation of, as some people have put it in this topic, "someone not to be fucked with" but I highly doubt it.
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Someone bullied me last month. I took out my scissors and nobody has approached me since. "Ye dont have anything on me bitch" i said to them and nobody has talked shit to me for years
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The answer to violence is violence, great.

This isn't comparable to self-defence in a serious, dire situation. I don't think people should be voting that folks should fight back just because they believe 'One should learn to handle their own problems'.
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spooky96 posted...

The answer to violence is violence, great.

This isn't comparable to self-defence in a serious, dire situation. I don't think people should be voting that folks should fight back just because they believe 'One should learn to handle their own problems'.

Sometimes it's all anyone responds to though. It should not be the first tool in the box, but at a certain point it'll need to be done.
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If you're at school, you'll both get suspended.
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If you don't fight back, the bully has no incentive to leave you alone.
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Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

No because you are gonna get in trouble for brawling or get falsely accused of being the aggressor.
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People may have tried to bully me as a kid but I'm honestly not sure. Any time someone tried to get physical with me I wouldn't hesitate to respond in kind.

If you're being physically attacked, you have to fight back.

If it's just words then no.

Unless of course they're a nazi or have the 'Richard Spencer' haircut. Then you should always just hit them.
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Zeus posted...

Also, the "This is [CURRENT YEAR]" trend is stupid.

Also known as the John Oliver method
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Absolutely, when I was in middle / high school (obviously this was 10-15 years ago)I fought the bullies and when I did that nobody bothered me anymore.
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If I have kids and if they are being bullied, I will tell them to fight back, and that if they get in trouble for it I will stand up for them 100%. When it happened to me, I punched the guy doing it in the face and it never happened again. They only pick on people they think are weak. If you show them you aren't, they won't bother you.
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Dikitain posted...

If I have kids and if they are being bullied, I will tell them to fight back, and that if they get in trouble for it I will stand up for them 100%. When it happened to me, I punched the guy doing it in the face and it never happened again. They only pick on people they think are weak. If you show them you aren't, they won't bother you.

You'll become one of those parents who gets too much involved in their kid's issues
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spooky96 posted...

Dikitain posted...

If I have kids and if they are being bullied, I will tell them to fight back, and that if they get in trouble for it I will stand up for them 100%. When it happened to me, I punched the guy doing it in the face and it never happened again. They only pick on people they think are weak. If you show them you aren't, they won't bother you.

You'll become one of those parents who gets too much involved in their kid's issues

"Too much involved?" It is my fucking kid.

If they are doing fine on their own, sure, I won't bother them or force myself into parts of their life they don't want me in. However, if they need me I will be there for them.

You sound like the kind of person who would rather their kid die in a ditch then be a parent.
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fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?
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Veedrock- posted...

fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?

If you are getting bullied as an adult I don't know what to tell you. Maybe hang out with better people?

I mean even the most annoying people I know haven't been bullied since high school.
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Absolutely, even if you can't win. At least they'll go look for someone wimpier since you give them trouble.

Dikitain posted...

spooky96 posted...

Dikitain posted...

If I have kids and if they are being bullied, I will tell them to fight back, and that if they get in trouble for it I will stand up for them 100%. When it happened to me, I punched the guy doing it in the face and it never happened again. They only pick on people they think are weak. If you show them you aren't, they won't bother you.

You'll become one of those parents who gets too much involved in their kid's issues

"Too much involved?" It is my fucking kid.

If they are doing fine on their own, sure, I won't bother them or force myself into parts of their life they don't want me in. However, if they need me I will be there for them.

You sound like the kind of person who would rather their kid die in a ditch then be a parent.

Everyone wants justice for their kids. This doesn't mean I'll show up at the school and complain to the teachers every now and then and say X and Y were bullying my kids. See this from the school's perspective. They have absolutely no way telling who initiated physically. If both kids hit each other, THEY have to punish both.

But yeah, you'd just talk to the school's principal just because your kid can't tell a lie and is a direct descendant of Mahatma Gandhi.
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Veedrock- posted...

fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?

Police.
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spooky96 posted...

Everyone wants justice for their kids. This doesn't mean I'll show up at the school and complain to the teachers every now and then and say X and Y were bullying my kids. See this from the school's perspective. They have absolutely no way telling who initiated physically. If both kids hit each other, THEY have to punish both.

Well schools are basically prisons anyways. There's very little the administration can do except make sure that the children don't leave the school. Child leaves the school when the state says they have to be there? Time to get the police involved.
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spooky96 posted...

Dikitain posted...

spooky96 posted...

Dikitain posted...

If I have kids and if they are being bullied, I will tell them to fight back, and that if they get in trouble for it I will stand up for them 100%. When it happened to me, I punched the guy doing it in the face and it never happened again. They only pick on people they think are weak. If you show them you aren't, they won't bother you.

You'll become one of those parents who gets too much involved in their kid's issues

"Too much involved?" It is my fucking kid.

If they are doing fine on their own, sure, I won't bother them or force myself into parts of their life they don't want me in. However, if they need me I will be there for them.

You sound like the kind of person who would rather their kid die in a ditch then be a parent.

Everyone wants justice for their kids. This doesn't mean I'll show up at the school and complain to the teachers every now and then and say X and Y were bullying my kids. See this from the school's perspective. They have absolutely no way telling who initiated physically. If both kids hit each other, THEY have to punish both.

But yeah, you'd just talk to the school's principal just because your kid can't tell a lie and is a direct descendant of Mahatma Gandhi.

If there is proof that my kid was being bulled, then I am absolutely going to talk to the principal and if he does nothing about it, then he and the parents of the kid who bullied mine can see me in court.
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Dikitain posted...

Veedrock- posted...

fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?

If you are getting bullied as an adult I don't know what to tell you. Maybe hang out with better people?

Since when are bullies restricted to people you hang out with?

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Veedrock- posted...

fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?

Police.

Waste of their time.
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Veedrock- posted...

Dikitain posted...

Veedrock- posted...

fettster777 posted...

Yes when you're a kid, no when you're an adult.

What's the response if you're an adult?

If you are getting bullied as an adult I don't know what to tell you. Maybe hang out with better people?

Since when are bullies restricted to people you hang out with?

What, people are randomly showing up at your house and bullying you? Your a fucking adult, no one is forcing you to stay somewhere you are being bullied at?
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