Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 107: Better (Try Harder) Care Reconciliation Act

(+) Yeah! (+)

BowserCuffs posted...

Ashethan posted...

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-supreme-court-inherent-right-gay-marriage-benefits/YhIJSUN9u9Uy2d8n0exU2I/

What the fuck, Texas? What the actual fuck?

It's Texas. If you ask them whether they'd prefer to see two men holding hands or two men holding guns, they'd say "Guns" before you even finished the question.

Hmm, likely being facetious here, but how would that work exactly?

Would they say 'guns' as soon as you say 'Gu-' or say 'guns' after the two men holding hands without hearing the 'or'?
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Mega Mana posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Ashethan posted...

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-supreme-court-inherent-right-gay-marriage-benefits/YhIJSUN9u9Uy2d8n0exU2I/

What the fuck, Texas? What the actual fuck?

It's Texas. If you ask them whether they'd prefer to see two men holding hands or two men holding guns, they'd say "Guns" before you even finished the question.

Hmm, likely being facetious here, but how would that work exactly?

Would they say 'guns' as soon as you say 'Gu-' or say 'guns' after the two men holding hands without hearing the 'or'?

"Which would you rather see, two men holding--"
"Guns? Absolutely! The biggest baddest assault rifles they can get, even. Guns are 'Merican as hell!"
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I know it's useless to say this, but it boggles my mind on how exactly anyone can even care about gay marriage this much. I don't get how general hatred and vitriol works.

Sorry, just needed to vent.
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Non-Texan: Which would you rather see: Two men holding hands, or two men holding gu--
Texans: GUNS!
Non-Texans: ns that are Muslim.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I know it's useless to say this, but it boggles my mind on how exactly anyone can even care about gay marriage this much. I don't get how general hatred and vitriol works.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

No need to apologize.

They think gay rights are "special rights" because "gays have always had the same rights as straight people did - the right to marry the opposite sex"

This is like saying that "non-Christians have the same rights Christians do - the right to choose which Christian church they go to."
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There are a lot of problems with Texas, but please don't characterize the entire state as rednecks from bumfuck county. Austin/Dallas/Houston are all fine.
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BowserCuffs posted...

This is like saying that "non-Christians have the same rights Christians do - the right to choose which Christian church they go to."

You should frame that more like this:

It's like saying that Christians in Islamic countries have the same rights others do -- the right to worship Allah.
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Ashethan posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

This is like saying that "non-Christians have the same rights Christians do - the right to choose which Christian church they go to."

You should frame that more like this:

It's like saying that Christians in Islamic countries have the same rights others do -- the right to worship Allah.

Well I'm not the one who made the quote in the first place, but that is a fair point, though I hate preying on the fact that Muslims are today's boogeymen.
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Good for Texas, even though they will certainly lose.

Maybe Kennedy retires and this overturns Oberfell? A man can dream!
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Why do you care about it?

(Also terrible ruling, hopefully it'll be overruled at least 6-3... should be 9-0, but I really doubt it).
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Seph continues to be super mad that human rights weren't decided democratically.
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So apparently Trump told the new South Korean President that the reason the US has such a large national debt is because of our trade deficits with nations such as South Korea.

I thought financial part of the job was supposed to be the thing he WOULD understand
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The fact that Trump polled better on the economy than Clinton continues to dumbfound me

He would fail an intro macroecon course
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Jakyl25 posted...

So apparently Trump told the new South Korean President that the reason the US has such a large national debt is because of our trade deficits with nations such as South Korea.

I thought financial part of the job was supposed to be the thing he WOULD understand

What's wrong with the statement? If the US had a surplus we could generate revenue from more tariffs or income taxes rather than borrowing.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Good for Texas, even though they will certainly lose.

Maybe Kennedy retires and this overturns Oberfell? A man can dream!

Oh, so you're not an actual small government conservative, because it makes zero sense to believe this unless you're some sort of religious zealot.

Got it.
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Seph has never claimed to be a small government conservative.
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red sox 777 posted...

Seph has never claimed to be a small government conservative.

Ok so I don't actually understand why "no gay marriage" is a mainstream Republican belief.

It makes no logical sense.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Good for Texas, even though they will certainly lose.

So-called conservative literally cheering the significant waste of taxpayer money involved in taking this shit to court

So-called conservative cheering elected officials trying to bully judges.

We all knew it already, but even by your own damn definition and rhetoric, you're not conservative. You're just scum.
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Because conservatives don't like change. It's right in the name, conservative.
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red sox 777 posted...

Because conservatives don't like change. It's right in the name, conservative.

But this would be change
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Jakyl25 posted...

But this would be change

"It's not change, it's change back," the intellectually dishonest man replied.
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It's undoing a pretty recent change.
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red sox 777 posted...

It's undoing a pretty recent change.

No it's not. Gay marriage would still exist. It's just changing what that means
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Jakyl25 posted...

red sox 777 posted...

It's undoing a pretty recent change.

No it's not. Gay marriage would still exist. It's just changing what that means

Seph clearly stated his goal was overturning Obergefell.
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red sox 777 posted...

It's undoing a pretty recent change.

On the other hand, these are the same Republicans that changed the civil partnership law to prevent same sex civil partnerships, even though these were used for reasons other than romantic.

The same republicans that say that gays should get civil partnerships instead of getting married, because marriage is for one man one woman.
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Some conservatives want to go back to 1985. Others want to go to 1950. Still others want to go to 1925. Others want to go back to 1900. Others still want to go back to 1860.

There are even people who want to go back to the 7th Century. Maybe the Bronze Age!

Some conservatives are more conservative than others.
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red sox 777 posted...

Some conservatives want to go back to 1985. Others want to go to 1950. Still others want to go to 1925. Others want to go back to 1900. Others still want to go back to 1860.

There are even people who want to go back to the 7th Century. Maybe the Bronze Age!

Some conservatives are more conservative than others.

First, they want to go to imaginary versions of those periods that exist in only their heads.

Second, all of that implies massive, massive change.
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Kenri posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Some conservatives want to go back to 1985. Others want to go to 1950. Still others want to go to 1925. Others want to go back to 1900. Others still want to go back to 1860.

There are even people who want to go back to the 7th Century. Maybe the Bronze Age!

Some conservatives are more conservative than others.

First, they want to go to imaginary versions of those periods that exist in only their heads.

Second, all of that implies massive, massive change.

First point: of course.

Second point: That depends on your frame of reference by which you measure change.
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red sox 777 posted...

Some conservatives want to go back to 1985. Others want to go to 1950. Still others want to go to 1925. Others want to go back to 1900. Others still want to go back to 1860.

There are even people who want to go back to the 7th Century. Maybe the Bronze Age!

Some conservatives are more conservative than others.

I think that's by definition reactionism, not conservatism.
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My post is a little imprecise of course and implicitly presupposes the liberal idea of a progression of humanity as time goes forward. That probably isn't accurate, and someone who wants to go back to the 1st century, say, is probably less conservative than someone who wants the 7th.

And, as I apparently have to state blindingly obvious things here, I am making no claim that this is a dictionary description of "conservative" or that others cannot have a different idea of its meaning. I just think this description is useful to think about.
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"gay marriage sucks because william f. buckley said change is bad." - literal sephyg argument
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red sox 777 posted...

Second point: That depends on your frame of reference by which you measure change.

It literally doesn't
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Kenri posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Second point: That depends on your frame of reference by which you measure change.

It literally doesn't

Of course it does. How can you measure change without a frame of reference?
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red sox 777 posted...

Of course it does. How can you measure change without a frame of reference?

Will things be different if you go back to 1985 or 1950 or whatever? If so, that's change. If not, what the fuck is the point
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Kenri posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Of course it does. How can you measure change without a frame of reference?

Will things be different if you go back to 1985 or 1950 or whatever? If so, that's change. If not, what the is the point

This assumes a frame of reference that the present is the state of no change.
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red sox 777 posted...

This assumes a frame of reference that the present is the state of no change.

the present is the part of time we're living in, so yeah, inherently so
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jesus christ you guys, you sure are showing a spectrum of responses
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

jesus christ you guys, you sure are showing a spectrum of responses

and you're responding to nothing.
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Kenri posted...

red sox 777and posted...

This assumes a frame of reference that the present is the state of no change.

the present is the part of time we're living in, so yeah, inherently so

That doesn't make it special. We live on Earth, it doesn't mean all places in the universe should be measured by their distance from Earth. Of course we can use Earth.....but we could use anywhere else too.

Someone who likes 1950 more than 2017 may want to use 1950 as their frame of reference. Someone who grew up in the 50s is highly likely to use it as their reference frame, whether or not they liked it.

Someone can like change away from their reference frame......but then they are probably not conservative, at least the way I am using conservative.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

jesus christ you guys, you sure are showing a spectrum of responses

I see what you did there
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red sox 777 posted...

That doesn't make it special. We live on Earth, it doesn't mean all places in the universe should be measured by their distance from Earth. Of course we can use Earth.....but we could use anywhere else too.

yikes, this sure is a response. do you have trouble interpreting highway signs too?


red sox 777 posted...

Someone can like change away from their reference frame......but then they are probably not conservative, at least the way I am using conservative.

but you're saying they like change to their frame of reference, which is still change
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Kenri posted...

but you're saying they like change to their frame of reference, which is still change

He's trying to argue that people should be allowed to stick their fingers in their ears, scream "THIS IS 1950 AND THINGS ARE EXACTLY HOW THEY WERE IN 1950," and then complain if anything doesn't match 1950
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StealThisSheen posted...

Kenri posted...

but you're saying they like change to their frame of reference, which is still change

He's trying to argue that people should be allowed to stick their fingers in their ears, scream "THIS IS 1950 AND THINGS ARE EXACTLY HOW THEY WERE IN 1950," and then complain if anything doesn't match 1950

Thank you. Although I make no value judgments on whether that is good or bad. I am simply explaining why some people oppose gay marriage.
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To quote many conservatives, my response to those who want Obergefell overturned;

YOU LOST. GET OVER IT.
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Ashethan posted...

To quote many conservatives, my response to those who want Obergefell overturned;

YOU LOST. GET OVER IT.

Not nearly as catchy or powerful as #ThisIsWhyYouLost IMO.
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StealThisSheen posted...

He's trying to argue that people should be allowed to stick their fingers in their ears, scream "THIS IS 1950 AND THINGS ARE EXACTLY HOW THEY WERE IN 1950," and then complain if anything doesn't match 1950

i don't get why conservatives even try to maintain these dumb intellectual high grounds that just make zero sense. why not just say "change is good but some of the changes we've been making are bad" instead of claiming to hate change while also pushing for tons and tons of change.

#MakeChangeGreatAgain
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hey guys did you see my tweets???
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Kenri posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

He's trying to argue that people should be allowed to stick their fingers in their ears, scream "THIS IS 1950 AND THINGS ARE EXACTLY HOW THEY WERE IN 1950," and then complain if anything doesn't match 1950

i don't get why conservatives even try to maintain these dumb intellectual high grounds that just make zero sense. why not just say "change is good but some of the changes we've been making are bad" instead of claiming to hate change while also pushing for tons and tons of change.

#MakeChangeGreatAgain

Who said conservatives say change is bad? I said that's what conservatives feel, and not usually on an intellectual level either.
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MrGreenonion posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

jesus christ you guys, you sure are showing a spectrum of responses

I see what you did there

:)
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red sox 777 posted...

Who said conservatives say change is bad? I said that's what conservatives feel, and not usually on an intellectual level either.

you said they don't like it. they do like it. if you meant they "feel like they dislike change, conceptually, but in practice they actually like change just as much as anyone else, they're just self-righteous about it" you should have said that.
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