Board 8 > MLB Offseason Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

KCF0107 posted...

Astros fired Luhnow and Hinch

Astros are a PR dumpster fire and thought this would help

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SavageInTheBox posted...

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Yeah I guess we can safely assume that 2019 was a cheat year too even without Cora. Ridiculous.

If the Astros don't cheat in 2017, Girardi is still the manager, CC gets at least one more ring, Didi is a very wealthy man and still with the team, Stanton is tanning himself on South Beach instead, and maybe Sonny Gray doesn't have a mental breakdown?

On the other side, Altuve and Mookie are never MVPs. Everything makes sense now when you look at how preposterous the offensive stats of the 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox are.

Strip both titles and disband both franchises.

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neonreaper posted...

they wont reopen the YESnet investigation but man that would be exciting but likely too devastating.

Fuck right off dickhead. It is literally proven that the Yankees did not violate a single MLB rule. 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox knowingly cheated and covered up the evidence.

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Also how many topics would we be through right now if the Mets were the victims in this situation? Wigs you wonderful lunatic, I hope ownership preemptively dumps Beltran.

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This is seriously the most devastating sports scandal since beloved Boston football player Aaron Hernandez murdered several people including himself.

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Luhnow and Hinch will just get another job at some point, not sure why everyone think no one is shameless enough to do it.

I think the punishment is severe enough though the cash fine should've been way more than 5M. That's the limit a team can be fined via the CBA but that rule is dumb .

Also it's probably fair enough to not fine any players over this because as the bottom of the totem pole it's too stringy to say who was going along with this because they felt they had to for fear of getting cut or something. Limiting punishment to people of power makes sense but the players , Beltran included, should at least have to face some kind of smaller punishment I think. Make them all attend cheating is bad seminars (lol) and do community service and public apologies and all that. Like a slap on the wrist but it's better than nothing at all.


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And yeah cora is gonna get destroyed

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WiggumFan267 posted...

Also it's probably fair enough to not fine any players over this because as the bottom of the totem pole it's too stringy to say who was going along with this because they felt they had to for fear of getting cut or something. Limiting punishment to people of power makes sense but the players , Beltran included, should at least have to face some kind of smaller punishment I think. Make them all attend cheating is bad seminars (lol) and do community service and public apologies and all that. Like a slap on the wrist but it's better than nothing at all.

The report found that the players orchestrated it with Cora. Figured out the logistics, came up with the methods for tipping, etc. They are absolute scum and should be suspended too.

I am very excited for September 21st so I can lob some hot chili at Altuve when he returns to the Bronx and hopefully maim him.

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Anyone would trade a GM/Manager for a ring.

Players ought to have gotten punished too.

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voltch posted...

Anyone would trade a GM/Manager for a ring.

But for a tainted championship that no one can actually feel good about?

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Going by other sports like Football(soccer), yeah in the long run tainted titles don't mean shit.
Fans still count it for bragging rights.

Astros got off light.


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Hinch will be employed in 370 or so days

He gets vacation time!

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Red Sox will hire him after Cora is banned

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AJ should have been fired for pulling Grienke in Game 7, and Luhnow is a spineless cuck who doesn't support his players/employees.

Good riddance to both! This team is gonna be angry AF and destroy next year!

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voltch posted...

Going by other sports like Football(soccer), yeah in the long run tainted titles don't mean shit.
Fans still count it for bragging rights.

Astros got off light.

they still got their fucking parade.

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Also I was finally over the bitterness of that 2017 world series and then this story happened. Now I am just extra fucking bitter again.

Not even excited for this baseball season that is coming up cause our offseason has been boring so outlook is just bitter. Endless bitter.

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I have no plans to go to spring training if the braves dont sign some one who can hit

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Fuck right off dickhead. It is literally proven that the Yankees did not violate a single MLB rule. 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox knowingly cheated and covered up the evidence.

Yankees are also under investigation for replay room abuse in all of this. Not that a Yankees fan has any high ground left. Yankees are lions not deer.


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neonreaper posted...

Yankees are also under investigation for replay room abuse in all of this. Not that a Yankees fan has any high ground left. Yankees are lions not deer.

The investigation ended already, Goebbels

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Wigs so far your Mets are the only organization that hasn't broken ties with the cheating scumbags involved in this scandal

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Still amusing to me that Mike Elias and Sig Mejdal both came over from the Astros after 2018 but neither got implicated in anything. Of course it makes sense with Mejdal being a strictly analytics and player development guy and Elias being fully in the scouting and development arm of Astros management.

Or maybe MLB pities the Orioles enough to not care.

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Also I forgot that both Girardi and Madden got hired so I was about to post that Martinez is the only active manager to have won a WS.

Still the only active manager of the team he won with.

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So the Sox did the proactive thing and fired Cora

The Mets aren't firing Beltran until its hilariously too late because Mets right

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Hey, guys, humor me.

Name a single player that got fucked over by this cheating harder than my favorite guy in baseball, Yu Darvish.

I'll wait.

Meow1000 posted...

So the Sox did the proactive thing and fired Cora

The Mets aren't firing Beltran until its hilariously too late because Mets right

Mets should fire Beltran takes are hilariously awful. Whether or not you agree, MLB absolved all the players and none are being punished. Why should the Mets punish Beltran in light of MLB saying they are not at fault? Further I'd you think the Mets should do something despite MLB saying they're ok, then it follows that you think every other former or current Astro who may or may not possibly have been involved should also be punished no matter what team they're on right?

Like this is absolutely brutally bad take to think he should be fired as a Met for something he did as an Astro when MLB already cleared it. Feel free to not like the fact he, or any Astro participated in the scheme cuz it sucks that this happened but it makes literally 0 sense for him to get fired over it unless you are going to suspend or "fire" every Astros player which is stupid. The coaches and higher ups are the ones at fault here. The players were likely just following orders

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Braves just got rid of josh Donaldson to the twins

Reg posted...

Hey, guys, humor me.

Name a single player that got fucked over by this cheating harder than my favorite guy in baseball, Yu Darvish.

I'll wait.

I think clayton kershaw deserves mention as at least being close. But since he's better than darvish (no offense) he has more going for him outside of that series, his legacy can take the hit. So yeah, Darvish probably lost the most.
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WiggumFan267 posted...

Mets should fire Beltran takes are hilariously awful. Whether or not you agree, MLB absolved all the players and none are being punished. Why should the Mets punish Beltran in light of MLB saying they are not at fault? Further I'd you think the Mets should do something despite MLB saying they're ok, then it follows that you think every other former or current Astro who may or may not possibly have been involved should also be punished no matter what team they're on right?

Like this is absolutely brutally bad take to think he should be fired as a Met for something he did as an Astro when MLB already cleared it. Feel free to not like the fact he, or any Astro participated in the scheme cuz it sucks that this happened but it makes literally 0 sense for him to get fired over it unless you are going to suspend or "fire" every Astros player which is stupid. The coaches and higher ups are the ones at fault here. The players were likely just following orders

The MLB repeatedly namedropped him in a way that is begging the Mets to punish him themselves because the MLB doesn't want to go through the union to do it. He was clearly one of the people who originated the concept.

Beltran should've been out before Cora.

The Mets will spend all year under massive negative scrutiny if they keep Beltran and it will make them the butt of the league like they've never been before.

Honestly I'd prefer they not win with him. Any success they have with Beltran comes with a giant asterisk. I'd be far more comfortable with them losing 100 games than with the taint that comes from winning a world series under Beltran.

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I was under the impression that they namedropped him because he was the one instance of a guy who's in a manager spot now, but was also a player at the time of the incidents, rather than naming him as a sort of implication of guilt, so they felt the need to clarify why they weren't going to punish him.

I haven't read the whole statement so maybe I"m just wildly wrong but that was the impression I got just reading conversation and tweets about it.
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WiggumFan267 posted...

Mets should fire Beltran takes are hilariously awful. Whether or not you agree, MLB absolved all the players and none are being punished. Why should the Mets punish Beltran in light of MLB saying they are not at fault? Further I'd you think the Mets should do something despite MLB saying they're ok, then it follows that you think every other former or current Astro who may or may not possibly have been involved should also be punished no matter what team they're on right?

Like this is absolutely brutally bad take to think he should be fired as a Met for something he did as an Astro when MLB already cleared it. Feel free to not like the fact he, or any Astro participated in the scheme cuz it sucks that this happened but it makes literally 0 sense for him to get fired over it unless you are going to suspend or "fire" every Astros player which is stupid. The coaches and higher ups are the ones at fault here. The players were likely just following orders

Beltran literally concocted the cheating ring. Why in the world would any franchise want to associate itself with him?

Also there's this lmfaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo:

https://twitter.com/EastBay_Sports/status/1217398208550170629

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WiggumFan267 posted...

The players were likely just following orders

The report specifically says that participation amongst players was 100% voluntary. So any player doing this was willingly cheating, which is why, yes, all of the hitters known to have participated should be suspended.

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Emeraldegg posted...

I think clayton kershaw deserves mention as at least being close. But since he's better than darvish (no offense) he has more going for him outside of that series, his legacy can take the hit. So yeah, Darvish probably lost the most.

While he didn't become a headcase like these two guys, Aaron Judge deserves a shout out for getting robbed of the MVP in 2017 by a cheating midget

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Emeraldegg posted...

I was under the impression that they namedropped him because he was the one instance of a guy who's in a manager spot now, but was also a player at the time of the incidents, rather than naming him as a sort of implication of guilt, so they felt the need to clarify why they weren't going to punish him.

I haven't read the whole statement so maybe I"m just wildly wrong but that was the impression I got just reading conversation and tweets about it.

"The new scheme was player-driven, with the exception of Cora"

Beltran is specifically named as a player who originated the scheme

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1216798249467699206

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It'll be a shame is Beltran gets fired. I was looking forward to seeing him manage the Mets. I assumed there was no way they'd fire him for his role in the scandal, but apparently they're really struggling to find a way to address it. It's not looking good for Carlos.

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Emeraldegg posted...

I was under the impression that they namedropped him because he was the one instance of a guy who's in a manager spot now, but was also a player at the time of the incidents, rather than naming him as a sort of implication of guilt, so they felt the need to clarify why they weren't going to punish him.

I haven't read the whole statement so maybe I"m just wildly wrong but that was the impression I got just reading conversation and tweets about it.

My guess was that was why they named him but really it's just a guess. MLB was super irresponsible to name him haphazardly as they did without context. It's like they singled him out but they didn't explain why (which leads me to believe it was just because they said "....players did things (including Beltran)" to specify they considered him a player, not a manager.

Either way, this situation reallyfucking sucks for the Mets. While I believe firing him is the stupid and wrong thing to do because it makes no sense unless other then-players also getpenalized... like why should Beltran be penalized by his team, not MLB, while Altuve, Correa, Gurriel, Cole, Verlander, Marisnick, etc etc all get off scot-free?

On the other hand, if they do decide to keep him, this is going to be such a fucking distraction all year long. it's going to come up and be asked basically daily and it's just going to leave an annoying cloud over the whole season.

And the sad part is none of this at all came of the Mets doing. The Red Sox and Astros were the ones who cheated- and got rightly punished- and yet the Mets have to suffer the consequences of their cheating as well even though they were not involved whatsoever with this- they hired Beltran well before this came out. It's a lose-lose situation for them, both decisions involve more bad than good, and for once they're in a shit situation that was not their fault at all- they're being punished for something they didn't do. And of course, they haven't made a decision yet and they always let shit like this fester. Also awful of MLB for them to put a gag order on everyone about this, so the Mets basically won't even be allowed to make a statement it sounds like unless they directly are saying they're keeping or firing.

This all really sucks. Fuck the Astros and Red Sox. They cheated and got World Series wins and a scandal. The Mets just got the scandal part.

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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

It'll be a shame is Beltran gets fired. I was looking forward to seeing him manage the Mets. I assumed there was no way they'd fire him for his role in the scandal, but apparently they're really struggling to find a way to address it. It's not looking good for Carlos.

The media is also big time to blame here for blowing this way out of proportion just because his name was dropped in the report in an innocuous way. But there's also no reason for them to be as over protective of him as they would be if they had a veteran 10+ year manager. I would've liked to see him too but it would suck to deal with the daily ramifications of this as a fan, even if I think everyone is wrong about this- he's being labeled as a "ringleader" when it appears to be that is blatantly not true, unless there's something we don't know. That was never said anywhere, and yet it's being reported as such by the NY media. They're upset Beltran lied to the media (which he did) and then told the truth to MLB, so they're dragging him and trying to force him out (and it's working apparently)

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WiggumFan267 posted...

Either way, this situation reallyf***ing sucks for the Mets. While I believe firing him is the stupid and wrong thing to do because it makes no sense unless other then-players also getpenalized... like why should Beltran be penalized by his team, not MLB, while Altuve, Correa, Gurriel, Cole, Verlander, Marisnick, etc etc all get off scot-free?

Why would the pitchers get disciplined? You're being hysterical.

Please see my link above. Beltran made a fucking burner account to reply to randos on Twitter about how talented and respected he is. Do you really want a sociopathic asshole like that in charge of your clubhouse?

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WiggumFan267 posted...

he's being labeled as a "ringleader" when it appears to be that is blatantly not true

What part is "blatantly" not true? The extent of his involvement is ambiguous if anything.

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https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1217872158900346887?s=19
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Lol mets they barley beat out the marlins

Beltran just stepped down. Official. It's unfair the mets got dragged into this bullshit.
The Mets being thrown into a state of chaos due to a cheating scandal that didnt even benefit them is truly something else.

This sucks. Unfair to the Mets that its come to this, that they were so greatly affected by a cheating scenario they had nothing to do with and a then-player had to step down from a now-managerial role completely unrelated to his actions.

I think on the other hand, it's not like he was a long tenured veteran manager they needed to protect and not having to deal with a cloud like this potentially looming all season could've been a bad distraction. Having to get a new manager on short term notice will hurt though.

Ok well now unless you want to have double standards, every 2017 Astros player needs to be released from their respective teams right? Sorry JD Davis even though you only had like 60 AB that year.

Oh gerrit cole is a pitcher? Sorry you knew about it. Time for the Yankees to punish you and what a bad look if they dont!!!!

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This is 100% the media's fault. They pushed the fuck out of this and it got beltran "fired". Now do you see why I get so fucking angry all the time that the media covers up and underreports the wilpons bullshit? If the media put any kind of fucking pressure at all on the wilpons and called them out they would've been gone fucking years ago. If they put the same effort they put into this beltran shit as they put into the every fucking criminal thing the wilpons do?

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WiggumFan267 posted...

This is 100% the media's fault. They pushed the fuck out of this and it got beltran "fired". Now do you see why I get so fucking angry all the time that the media covers up and underreports the wilpons bullshit? If the media put any kind of fucking pressure at all on the wilpons and called them out they would've been gone fucking years ago. If they put the same effort they put into this beltran shit as they put into the every fucking criminal thing the wilpons do?

Haha dude this is 100% on Beltran. Good for the Mets for doing the right thing and probably getting a better manager.

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The media turned this into a mets story when it had nothing to do with the mets. MLB decided to not punish beltran or any players. The Wilpons are cowards for not standing by their guy.

Fuck the Astros/Red Sox for cheating & getting the Mets caught in this when they had nothing to do with this shit, & for getting a WS out of the scandal while the Mets just get the scandal. Fuck the media for blowing this out of proportion and being THE reason Beltran was let go.

And FUCK THE WILPONS for botching this situation so badly.

Again. MLB fully cleared every Astros player. There was absolutely no reason for this at all.

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Should've done it a couple of days ago but got it done way sooner than I expected them to.

I'll commend them for that much.

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P.S.

At least give Showalter a call

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They didn't go after the players because they don't want to deal with the union, that's it. Beltran is no longer protected under that umbrella. The Mets are also choosing to let him go because they don't want to deal with the headache, which is their prerogative. It doesn't help that he was by all accounts the ringleader.

You're also nuts (you're already nuts, but you're extra nuts if) you think they're gonna suspend an entire team of players for a year and trot out minor leaguers. The league has to make money and isn't gonna drag out a million appeals with the players union.

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Players were NOT cleared in the report, it is just that MLB wasn't going to punish them. Manfred said back in 2017 after I believe the Red Sox were found guilty of stealing signs electronically that any team caught would have their GM and manager be held responsible.
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Yeah they've never been one to go for the experienced manager type though. I think it would be a bad idea to get someone with 0 familiarity with the team so far. It should be someone from within or someone they got to final interview stages with.

Either way they'll fuck it up because everything the wilpons do they fuck up

Too bad the media didnt fucking go after their throats

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