Board 8 > MLB Offseason Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

the offseason continues

NL East update

Phillies: Sign Didi Gregorius and Zack Wheeler
Braves: Sign Will Smith and Cole Hamels
Nationals: Re-sign Stephen Strasburg
Marlins: Acquire Jonathan Villar and Jesus Aguilar.
Mets: Trade for backup OF Jake Marisnick, sign Brad Brach.

if they were going to punt this offseason like this why did they not trade Wheeler at the deadline again?


---

Brach is real good though

---

hes fine. the mets had the worst bullpen they ever had last year so let's bring back 75% of it! that signing is ok but come on.
Also. This just happened

"Brodie Van Wagenen said Gerrit Cole is a good pitcher, but the Mets feel good about the front end of their rotation and they will be opportunistic in adding to that group."

not like I was expecting these cheap fucks to be in on cole, but they really really fuckin should be. Fucking pathetic.


---

Braves need hitting not more pitching

I've been forgetting about it until this week but the Australian Baseball League is going. They stream the games from their official channel on YouTube, with the next round of them coming up on the 12th. Of course it means being awake at 6AM, but it gave me a little bit of a baseball fix during last winter.

Anyway, I wonder if the Nationals plan to go after Donaldson since they're likely letting Rendon walk. I can't see them relying on Carter Kieboom at 3B already.

---

9 years, $324 million for Cole to become a Yankee

They weren't kidding around on this guy

---

i will take the 5/137 on degrom

but hey when you save that much money on a guy like that and don't take advantage of it by spending money elsewhere then... you must be the mets

---

Meow1000 posted...

9 years, $324 million for Cole to become a Yankee

They weren't kidding around on this guy

Holy shit!!!!!!

I can't wait to regret this in 5 years but at least we'll get some titles out of it

---

I think it's possible, even likely that Cole is able to remain very effective past his mid-30's kind of like how Verlander is doing.

---

You are probably making a mistake tbh. I bet he regresses a lot.

---

Adam Jones to the... Orix Buffaloes?

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You are probably making a mistake tbh. I bet he regresses a lot.

He's been getting consistently better every season thus far

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

He's been getting consistently better every season thus far

He was declining on the Pirates before going to the Astros, actually. The Cubs kind of broke him in 2015. Which is why I'd be worried if I were you, as the Astros do voodoo to fix pitchers.

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

He was declining on the Pirates before going to the Astros, actually. The Cubs kind of broke him in 2015. Which is why I'd be worried if I were you, as the Astros do voodoo to fix pitchers.

Yeah I guess that's why Charlie Morton really fell off after leaving. You're right!

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

He was declining on the Pirates before going to the Astros, actually. The Cubs kind of broke him in 2015. Which is why I'd be worried if I were you, as the Astros do voodoo to fix pitchers.

this is why i was kind of worried. but hey, it's not my money and at this point he was the only option. the Yankees have wanted this guy since he was in high school, so it's kinda neat they finally got him.

and like Seph alluded to, the Astros fix may have been permanent. the Yankees analytics team certainly seems to think so. also Yankees got a new pitching coach this year, which it wouldn't surprise me if they thought he would be better for Cole specifically.

---

https://twitter.com/mikemayerMMO/status/1204800788809187328?s=19

Hearing its unlikely the Mets trade for Starling Marte (or anyone with that kind of money left on deal), unless they shed salary (Lowrie/Familia) in that or another deal.

It's so fucking embarrassing that the Mets have to shed salary to take on a 2 year/$25 deal.

(When mind you they HAVENT SPENT A DIME yet this offseason)

---

The mets won 86 games last year in large part due to their great health luck and the fact they had both Wheeler and Stroman together down the stretch. From last year, temhey need to replace Wheeler and Vargas. They, in their words, replaced Wheeler with Stroman, which is a significant downgrade. They need an upgrade over wheeler in order to be better than last year cuz obviously they wont be as healthy.

In order to field a competitive team in 2020 the Mets need:
- a sp as good as wheeler or very close
- 1-2 decent relievers (plus a 1-2 more minor league deal kinda guys)
- one more starting bat, ideally an OF or 3B (not trading anyone from the roster except maybe dom smith but it depends on the deal)
- oh I guess they need a 3rd catcher too cuz there literally isn't one they can use in the org like if someone gets hurt but this is an obv move that's gonna happen anyway so whatever

Btw dont forget the Phillies and Braves have both made significant upgrades to their team already, the Nats resigned Strasburg, and even the marlins got Villar and Aguilar.

Everyone in the div is much better and added huge pieces. The mets have basically the same exact roster minus Wheeler

---

Legitimate question. Why is it that the Mets GM is allowed to blatantly lie about actual facts and present it as evidence why they should not spend anymore and is never called out on it by anyone nor does anyone do anything about it? How does this all go completely unchecked and let him off scot free?

https://twitter.com/DeeshaThosar/status/1204563041301360640?s=19

Brodie Van Wagenen said the Mets played consistently when healthy. And when asked if he has to consider that injuries always happen, he said:

"That's why we created the depth that we had last year and that's why we were able to win 86 games with as much diversity as we have."

The mets "depth" last year consisted of Keon Broxton, Rajai Davis, Aaron Altherr and Carlos Gomez who combined to hit .172 (33-for-191) for the Mets.

---

Didnt we sign a catcher from the rays

Mets 5th pitcher is Wacha. Bargain bin "competing"

I dont like this. Wacha is damaged goods. This is not a move to try to win. This is a move to go half-in and feign competitiveness while the rest of the NL east significantly improves around you. This team will never change. Same old same old.

The Mets define "contending" as spending as little as possible and hoping that it works out. More proof winning is not a priority in Queens, but it is in Philly, Atlanta, and Washington (among many others obv)

By the way. Another old Brodie client. Of course.

So Stroman replaces Wheeler (huge downgrade) and Wacha replaces Vargas (downgrade). Great fucking job Brodie. 79 wins here we come.

---

Zack Wheeler & Jason Vargas combined fWAR in 2019: 6.5

Marcus Stroman & Michael Wachas combined fWAR in 2019: 3.7

---

Rendon to the Angels for 7 years, $245 million.

I'm glad the Angels got something at least. I think most baseball fans want to see a good team around Trout.

---

thank god he's out of the NL East. That's literally the best move the Mets 'made' this offseason

---

Well my worst nightmares have come alive. They signed porcello for 10M. the wacha deal doesnt look bad now, instead this one does. THIS is the one I hate.

---

It's only one year though, so it's not that awful.

---

supposedly the Mets aren't interested in Betances. weird, would have thought that was the most fitting place for him. i wish the Yankees would have kept him instead of Chapman if it had to be one or the other, and that's what it's looking like.

happy to see Brett Gardner is back at least

edit: oh, the Betances/Mets thing came from Andy Martino, who apparently has a reputation of being wrong, so there's some hope for Mets fans

---

Porcello is an awful pitcher as is Wacha so it's awful when you fucking say you are trying to compete for 2020 and are all in and your response to that is to significantly downgrade your team while the rest of the entire division significantly improves

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING INTERESTED IN BETANCES BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAP FUCKS WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THIS TO UNDERSTAND?????

THEY. DO. NOT. CARE. ABOUT. THE. TEAM. AT. ALL.

THEY. DO. NOT. CARE. ABOUT. WINNING.

Look at this fucking shit:

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/1205176095470784512?s=19

THE GUYS WHO WERE IN THE BULLPEN ALL YEAR ARE "BULLPEN ADDITIONS" SO WE DONT NEED TO ADD ANYONE ELSE

Stop trying to defend these moves. They are not defensible in anyway for a team in the biggest market in the world that acts like it's on a Kansas City budget and is also fucking morons to boot


---

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/1205180391566409729?s=19

Now They are literally saying they are done adding relievers when they have not added anyone of note and had literally the worst all time bullpen era in franchise history because "we experienced volatility in the market last year"

AGAIN. THEY HAD THE WORST BULLPEN ERA IN FRANCHISE HISTORY LAST YEAR. AND DID NOTHING TO FIX IT AT THE DEADLINE DESPITE LYING TO THE FANBASE AND SAYING THEY WERE GOING TO TRY TO COMPETE TO JUSTIFY NOT TRADING WHEELER AND SIGNING STROMAN AND NOT FIXING THE BULLPEN.

and now they CONTINUE TO SAY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TRY TO FIX THE BULLPEN?????????
WHAT THE FUCK???????

again. they do. Not. Care. About. Winning.
Not. One. Fucking. Bit. This is literally proof positive. The Wilpons simply do not want to invest any more money in this team because they are going to sell in 5 years (maybe). So this is a huge fucking conflict of interest to allow guys to own the team who have a fucking exit strategy. There is no reason even, less than before, for the wilpons to want to spend on this team.

This is why this should not be a 5 year plan. This should be NOW. How can MLB allow someone to continue to own a team when they know they are going to sell in years?? What kind of sense does that make??????

---

Man you are the most insufferable baseball fan I've ever seen.

If they're still being cheap and making bad decisions when Cohen's tenure as owner kicks in then I can understand the constant whining. But for now, what's the point? You know they're not going to do what you want them to do.

Also Porcello isn't that bad. He's not necessarily good either, but I imagine he's going to bounce back this year.

---

Mets had the worst bullpen era in franchise history. Didnt add at the deadline last year. Didnt add anyone in the offseason this year. They say " were not gonna add anyone because last year it was too volatile. We're good with not changing anything in what was the worst bullpen we've ever had and still claiming we would like to compete while the rest of our team got worse and everyone else got better"

---

I'd be surprised if they didn't get any relievers at all. They're not necessarily going to get anyone good though.

---

MLBs new drug program sounds good at first glance - they test but only punish if the player doesnt stick to a treatment program

---

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Man you are the most insufferable baseball fan I've ever seen.

If they're still being cheap and making bad decisions when Cohen's tenure as owner kicks in then I can understand the constant whining. But for now, what's the point? You know they're not going to do what you want them to do.

Also Porcello isn't that bad. He's not necessarily good either, but I imagine he's going to bounce back this year.

Are you asking what's the point in whining about having someone who owns your team not give a fuck about winning? So you're saying g mets fans should just be cool they have owners and a GM lying to everyone and selling a garbage product trying to pass it off as competitive , cheaping out year in and year out for the last 20 some years, and not being smart with the money they do choose to spend?

Why the fuck should I not be fucking mad about that? This coming from a Yankees fan? You have no fucking idea what it's like. You dont have to fucking deal with this. You dont have to have it fucking depress you and affect your mood because you dont have to ever worry about it and winning just comes natural . You've gotten to experience the joy several times I've been dying for for over 30 years.

I want to see my team win for once in my goddamn life. Each year they're owned by these miserable piles of shit makes that less and less likely. I dont want to just fucking punt the next 5 years of this. Why shouldn't I fucking complain about my team that doesnt try to win and finds new ways to sink to new lows every day?


---

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

I'd be surprised if they didn't get any relievers at all. They're not necessarily going to get anyone good though.

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/1205176095470784512?s=19

---

neonreaper posted...

MLBs new drug program sounds good at first glance - they test but only punish if the player doesnt stick to a treatment program

Agreed, maybe the first good thing Manfred has done in his tenure

---

Porcello tends to alternate good years and bad years, so, you may be in luck. Dont be surprised if youre typing all caps when they dont re-sign him after an up year.

---

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Also Porcello isn't that bad. He's not necessarily good either, but I imagine he's going to bounce back this year.

The move makes.more sense if you have other better signings to balance ce it out except the acquisition made and next years outlook ENTIRELY relies on like 7 different people having bounceback years. Porcello. Wacha. Diaz. Familia. Cano. Cespedes. Lowrie. (Assuming they dont offload Lowries contract with a high end prospect for the express purpose of not having to pay him). That's not how you operate a team if you're legitimately trying to win.

---

I'm not saying you can't be mad, but almost every time you post it's rehashing the same exact complaints every single time. And quite frankly you are very over-dramatic. I get you're passionate about the Mets and baseball, but it wouldn't hurt to calm down a bit at least.

Also I may be a Yankees fan, but I want to see the Mets win too. I can't say I want to see them win as badly as you do, but obviously I want my dad to see his team win a World Series again too.

---

The mets overachievedast year at 86 games mostly because they didnt suffer much in the way of major injuries. Now the starting rotation has been downgraded a ton and the rest of the team is basically the same. Dont forget the FO tried to say Stroman replaced Wheeler when they were literally both in the same rotation at the same time for the 2nd half.

If the mets have an average amount of Injury luck last year (average for MLB, not the mets) they probably win 83 or 84 last year. 86 happened under best case scenario circumstances.

So this year I'd say best case/no injury scenario is 84 but they're gonna have some more injuries and the other NLE teams are all better (except the Nats so far but I bet they're not done) so as of right now I put them at 80 wins. Which would be unacceptable given the level of talent they have with some.of these guys but that's the way it is these days. I guess I shouldn't be mad about that though, right?

Like you look at cole and strasburg deals vs degroms and tell me you cant build a winner around that? The only way that's possible is if you're not trying to win.

---

Old complaints, new reasons to spur on those old complaints

---

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

I'm not saying you can't be mad, but almost every time you post it's rehashing the same exact complaints every single time. And quite frankly you are very over-dramatic. I get you're passionate about the Mets and baseball, but it wouldn't hurt to calm down a bit at least.

Also I may be a Yankees fan, but I want to see the Mets win too. I can't say I want to see them win as badly as you do, but obviously I want my dad to see his team win a World Series again too.

Sorry man. What can I say. I need to vent it often.

---

Like my team just said they are done adding bullpen to the worst bullpen in baseball because they added 2 pieces who have been part of the bullpen the last 3 years and they weren't even a resign or anything. Like it's just a blatant lie. Its mindboggling that he said this and is using it to justify the owners cheapness

---

I still don't buy that. Earlier today even I saw that the Mets are apparently interested in Hader. I can't see them getting Hader though, especially because their last trade for an "elite" reliever backfired horribly. But I'm guessing Brodie will add some other cheap relievers. He just won't go after guys he probably should be, like Betances.

But if they literally add nobody except Brad Brach, you're right it's an awful look.

---

At least the Mets have won the World Series at some point in their history (most recently 1986).

You know the last time my Brewers went to the World Series? 1982, before I was born, and they lost. It could be a lot worse, dont forget that.

The Brewers did everything they could to shed payroll so far this offseason, and at historic spending levels for the team last season they still fell in around league average for payroll. They have one of, if not the worst farm system in the league. We have a ton of holes on the team now because they decided to not even try on Grandal and Moustakas because they dont want to spend anything right now.

I know Ive said all of the above before, but I had to repeat it again. It really seems like you dont realize that other teams have it worse than the Mets do, both in terms of history and present outlook.

---

RaidenGarai posted...

At least the Mets have won the World Series at some point in their history (most recently 1986).

You know the last time my Brewers went to the World Series? 1982, before I was born, and they lost. It could be a lot worse, dont forget that.

The Brewers did everything they could to shed payroll so far this offseason, and at historic spending levels for the team last season they still fell in around league average for payroll. They have one of, if not the worst farm system in the league. We have a ton of holes on the team now because they decided to not even try on Grandal and Moustakas because they dont want to spend anything right now.

I know Ive said all of the above before, but I had to repeat it again. It really seems like you dont realize that other teams have it worse than the Mets do, both in terms of history and present outlook.

So? I don't get to share in any of the joy or experiences of them winning in 1986 because I wasn't alive for it. 1986, 1982, it's still "never in my lifetime" and its never in yours as well, unless you're a little older than me. If you were alive for the Mets winning then fine I will concede that point. From my point of view, and for contemporaries close to my age, all that matters is if we have experienced that team winning or not.

Until 2016 for example, a 30-year old Cubs fan and a Mets fan suffered the same amount when it came to not winning a championship.

I've said this before a thousand times too so don't try to play that history/ "could be a lot worse" card on me. No, it could not.


---

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

I still don't buy that. Earlier today even I saw that the Mets are apparently interested in Hader. I can't see them getting Hader though, especially because their last trade for an "elite" reliever backfired horribly. But I'm guessing Brodie will add some other cheap relievers. He just won't go after guys he probably should be, like Betances.

But if they literally add nobody except Brad Brach, you're right it's an awful look.

Hey we'll see. They also did add Chasen Shreve, but I'm not counting that now because they need at least one "solid" reliever signing. Betances, maybe but risky. McHugh , Will Harris, Cishek, McHugh are like the other best options...

And actually on that note I have a new story! Apparently the mets have a greivence against Cespedes stemming to his "stepping in a hole on his ranch" injury from last year, and they recouped money from his salary last year (that did not go into the team, naturally, since they don't careabout winning). and this year his salary will be "signifcantly reduced", and some of the $ will translate into incentive-based.

So that is good news for the Wilpons pockets since obviously that saved $ we know isn't gonna go back into the team since the insurance $ doesn't. Funny how they waited until all the big names signed with other teams, and they signed from the bargain bin already to announce this.

---

Here if you want the post btw

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1205598295655141376?s=19

---

RaidenGarai posted...

At least the Mets have won the World Series at some point in their history (most recently 1986).

You know the last time my Brewers went to the World Series? 1982, before I was born, and they lost. It could be a lot worse, dont forget that.

The Brewers did everything they could to shed payroll so far this offseason, and at historic spending levels for the team last season they still fell in around league average for payroll. They have one of, if not the worst farm system in the league. We have a ton of holes on the team now because they decided to not even try on Grandal and Moustakas because they dont want to spend anything right now.

I know Ive said all of the above before, but I had to repeat it again. It really seems like you dont realize that other teams have it worse than the Mets do, both in terms of history and present outlook.

Also, If you want to talk just going to the WS, sure. But it still ultimately leads to disappointment. We all want to win and many of us haven't experienced it. Getting there is nice, and sure I suppose I'd rather make it and lose than not make it, but its all minor differences when neither of us have experienced the win.

Also get out of here if you think you can argue present value the Mets have it better- No way. Maybe in 5 years after the Wilpons are gone (assuming they are). Your team actually went out and showed you it cared. It made the team good. It hasn't come to fruition but chance hasn't been on your side. Your future/present is better when you actually are making winning moves like when you got Yelich and Cain and made your team great for the next many years.

Farm system, we have one of the worst so nothing there either.

---

https://twitter.com/jaseidler/status/1205613046187675649?s=19

*thinky face*
(Sorry for going back and forth between accounts btw... was easier to do Twitter links from my phone for now)

---

Fair enough. I dont know if the Mets have a worse farm system than the Brewers, but I also dont know a lot about the Mets since I dont follow them that close.

Which leads me to this! I read every trade rumor/possible trade package for Josh Hader article I can find, and I ran into one with the Mets suggesting Edwin Diaz, Dominic Smith and their No. 7 overall prospect in David Peterson for Hader.

Since you know the Mets roster really well, would you consider that trade if you were making the decisions? If I recall correctly, youre not a fan of Diaz, and Smith seems like hed be seeing less playing time behind Alonso.

---