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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 10:54:49 PM
#249
Obellisk posted...
Lopen last scum game he was godfather and got lynched day 1.

Day 2 and because I got caught by a scan

I have no need to bus teammates to townclear myself. I do not get lynched as scum easily.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 10:21:35 PM
#244
It seems like you're jumping through a lot of hoops to "play mafia" here tbh. Instead of trying to convince me of a broken setup maybe you should try to convince people why Poppy is such obvious town that we're humoring these setups instead of thinking he's scum.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 10:13:26 PM
#242
Untangling the knot of the night results was more important at the time. There are lines where Death and/or Kirby can seem scummish.

I don't know why you're trying to treat figuring today out like it's not playing mafia or something. It's not like I said "Poppy, 100%" and just strong armed. Reading scum and town motivations of Death, Kirby, and Poppy were important to solving the day as Poppy being scum.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 9:56:05 PM
#237
Are you saying I'm scum

Oh please do pursue that!

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 9:54:06 PM
#235
Also boiling down the activity to speculation on Corrik is reductive

Your exasperation seems fake. You're so sure hb is scum. Why. Build on that, lead the day yourself.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 9:40:25 PM
#234
MZero posted...
We don't know, and even if we did know there's no guarantee he died from it.

Yes there is.

Setup is grossly imbalanced if 3 n1 deaths is possible

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TopicGame of Gen 5: Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Klonoa | Paper Mario vs. Lunar 2
Lopen
09/09/22 9:39:02 PM
#5
Fantasy
-

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Topic[Dyltc?] Perfect Scores R1D10: Bilbo/Morgan, Dan/Wash, Terry/Revan, Ed/Hercule
Lopen
09/09/22 8:28:52 PM
#2
Bilbo
Wash
Terry
-

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 8:27:44 PM
#231
To be clear on what I meant, Poppy, and I do feel this is a good general vibe of your play even if it isn't the crux of my argument.

In the game of mafia there are two reasons to refer to past posts directly by quote.

The first, the more obvious, is to help people understand why you're saying what you are and to try and convince them you're correct.

The more insidious use however is to make it cumbersome to read your posts, to give the illusion that you're trying to solve the game

People who make long drawn out posts packed to the brim with quotes from other posts tend to be scum more often than not imo. Particularly when they aren't using these floods of quotes to actively pursue a case on a single person.

So it's not that you necessarily need more aggression, just that when someone takes a posting style such as yours without narrowing the scope of their point, it is a strong diversionary tactic. It's why so many people think you come across as townlike right now. I would possibly feel the same if I could recall any cases you really helped drive that weren't already going that way.

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TopicSave My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXIV: Day 86 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]
Lopen
09/09/22 6:09:12 PM
#140
Ramza

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 5:14:17 PM
#190
Off the top of my head Ulti and MZero had some Poppy affinity. I'm going to guess your other one is ctes but I don't remember a lot of Poppy interactions myself and I'm not going to be able to do topic 2 and 3 now.

Sultan
Poppy
Ulti
Han

Is not a terrible scumteam. Probably Mzero over you if I can't pick you though.

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TopicSave My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXIV: Day 86 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]
Lopen
09/09/22 5:08:04 PM
#74
Rikku

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 5:07:32 PM
#182
Who have you towncleared. Tell me all about it.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:58:52 PM
#178
Okay listen, here's my detailed list so you can digest it.

Town
Lopen - That's me.
Chang - Seems to be thinking about the game.
Hb - low hanging fruit, case on him is not great. his defense about being afk and being frustrated seems legitimate
Death - Poppy is scum, if he was scum he probably lies about warding to protect Poppy. I'm frustrated with him not following me onto pressure but it fits his personality.

Probably town
Ctes - Think his attempt to digest the game is good. Really good content early today about Corrik's action and had an issue with hb being floated as the easy lynch too
Red - basically afk, but not necessarily scum. think scum red would actually have been scummoned by now to be honest.

Less scummy than people I think are scum, but possible scum.
MZero - he seems different this game. At first I thought "well this is town mzero motivated to actually draw town" but he is just... being lazy about it, so I'm not sure if he's actually excited anymore
Sbell - seems very non-committal about anything in this game

Roshan
Kirby - Lean town if he's not roshan because he's played his use of the shop and items in a way to confirm himself which feels third party to me
Ulti - Lean scum if he's not roshan. His ward sounds legit more worthless than Kirby's ability and I think he only claimed it to clear himself by existing in the game with the kirby ward. He also tried to bind himself to Lea. He basically seems desperate to attach himself to players and is being lazy otherwise.

Scum
Poppy - Corrik telegraphed it and his blind eye to investigating Corrik is damning. I'm not finding great stuff in topic 1 either. Him flipping out about there being a confirmed vig in the setup (there are reasons to be bulletproof that don't imply a vig-- vig in the setup is bad for setup reasons I've gone into) doesn't look great either
Han - Had some bad passive defenses of Sultan. Toothless. Flip flopped calling me town and scared scum within 3 minutes. Still remember this.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:40:29 PM
#151
PoppyTheNinja posted...
have to admit thought crossed my mind when lea backed down her read on kirby but doesn't feel likely at all

Reaction to a vote on Lea. Don't like this. Feels like he wants to keep it open to lynch her if we come down to a miller-off

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:40:01 PM
#150
No one attempting to truly analyze the game would question my towniness today

I solo lynched the bulletproof mafia roleblocker yesterday from practically nothing

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:32:57 PM
#146
HanOfTheNekos posted...
Second question Lopen - why was Poppy your number 1 Scum yesterday?

He... wasn't? He was my number 4 scum.

At the time I think it's because he posted a lot of quote blocks but didn't pursue a lot of leads aggressively-- those seem at odds with one another and tend to ping me as scummy. I only had strong conviction on 1-3 though.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:31:45 PM
#144
I think sbell's towniness has taken a considerable hit for this yes (among other things today) and he's no longer high on my town lean list.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:28:53 PM
#139
It is. It's just doing it in a non-committal way. Good scum play.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:26:10 PM
#136
HanOfTheNekos posted...
I'm not resisting the Poppy lynch tho.

I'd lynch all liars if Poppy wasn't 100% scum.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:25:38 PM
#135
htaeD posted...
Catching up. But I agree with Lopen that Corrik simply looking for Roshan is not as outlandish as one would think.
Or he thought Poppy was in fact town?

Shooting blind at Roshan is not smart. Your life isn't worth the gamble if you're not trying to be a death cop.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:24:11 PM
#133
HanOfTheNekos posted...
I think, if Hb is Town, then the argument is that Scum is sitting back and letting Town cannibalize itself. Otherwise, I think the argument requires Ulti and/or MZero being Scum?

There are others putting pressure on him indirectly by either resisting the poppy lynch or suspecting him without voting that are not voting for him such as yourself

Also yes, scum would be content to just sit back, check the vibe yesterday where a lot of people were content with either lynch Hb or Sultan.

Ulti and MZero do not have to be scum for this to work, they can just be lazy.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:20:47 PM
#129
Poppy needs pressure for the lynch to go

Inertia lynch for the day is hb, easily

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:17:30 PM
#126
HanOfTheNekos posted...
If mafia was pushing Hb because the lynch is easy, then why didn't they push harder yesterday?

Additionally, are you saying that Ulti and MZero are Mafia?

With CONSIDERABLY less conviction than Poppy but they're still very much in my POE yes. Note how they're both below Red.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:16:14 PM
#125
Lopen posted...
There was also some suspicion because he

Because of his attitude about some things. Like he's overreacting to certain things.

I just don't think he gets quite this much pressure today if he's scum. Scum would have found a way to divert attention by now.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:14:07 PM
#123
HanOfTheNekos posted...
Why?

Because the case on him frankly isn't blowing me away and he's getting a lot of pressure on him today despite the case not really being expanded on. He has defended himself passably and has posted more today. Most of why people didn't like him yesterday was inactivity. There was also some suspicion because he, which he explained too (b8 misreads his personality and lynch him early often regardless of alignment-- it is actually true and I could see that being a reason to get frustrated)

I just get the vibe that mafia is pushing this lynch because it's easy. I feel like town trying to figure out the game isn't content to just stick with hb as the right lynch.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:11:26 PM
#122
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80155033/967830265

This is actually a good post on the surface. However there are two things I take issue with.

I would like it a lot better if Poppy pursued pressuring Han with me and Lea.
I'd made this point first. Repeatedly. This is redundant, and the fact that he pointed it out in such verbose fashion without voting is weird (he had been somewhat mercurial with his vote early, not so much now)

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:03:39 PM
#119
Town.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:00:54 PM
#117
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80155033/967829855

Post 204 for reference. Let me know what you all think.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 4:00:10 PM
#116
Oh. He actually does clarify in post #204

To me #204 reads like maybe trying too hard to justify after the fact though, like he literally pulled out every post that he hadn't disagreed with that wasn't about millers-- the significant delay speaks to that too.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:54:24 PM
#114
Less outright a joke, more a humorous observation that I'd been following Lea around a lot. But yes that's why I said it. For the funnies.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:51:20 PM
#112
HanOfTheNekos posted...
This is really weird. Lopen, why did you directly suggest voting me, then call it sheeping Lea after she agrees and votes first?

Because I'm better at jokes than you.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:50:41 PM
#111
PoppyTheNinja posted...
doesn't look like fishing at all to me? looks like he's questioning lea backing down on voting kirby which i think is towny

Oh and then this is actually interesting. So if not the fishing, then that makes it even more weird that Poppy thought Sultan looked better since he disagreed with one of his two posts not about millers

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:46:15 PM
#107
PoppyTheNinja posted...
catching up but finding it hard to keep track of people, i'll probably have to go back and take notes

i'm kind of liking sultan more though since his opening?


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


This is Lea's immediate reaction to Poppy changing how he feels about Sultan, and it's interesting because Sultan hasn't actually done that much since post 22 where Poppy initially votes him and post 172.

Sultan talks about millers a lot with Red and in general-- frankly this does not make him look better. Reread early topic 1. Most people think it makes him look worse.

Says Corrik isn't here. Says Ctes is fishing. It's a bunch of nothing. And he doesn't answer Lea, choosing not to notice.

This is really interesting. Feels like Poppy put that opening vote on Sultan to distance, then wanted an excuse to not pursue it ASAP. He jumps off Sultan onto Kirby at the drop of a hat too.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:32:29 PM
#96
I know my first thing I want to do when a fellow town member makes a logical argument is call them insane and loco in two consecutive posts. Really helps people think about the point being made.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:30:09 PM
#93
HanOfTheNekos posted...
Lopen more like loco


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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:27:30 PM
#91
So today, it's basically been a lot of "methinks thou doth protest too much" from Poppy with respect to Corrik's night action.

Now for day 1. That's where the hidden gems come.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:23:51 PM
#90
PoppyTheNinja posted...
tbh corrik's whole positioning on sultan was awful looking back at topic 3, so much so that i wouldn't be at all surprised if he ended up being a vig shot but that's something to consider down the line

Any sort of analysis of the game composition from any sort of problem solving lens leads you to realize this is a ridiculous theory. This, again, feels more of self-preservation than attempting to solve.

PoppyTheNinja posted...
why is that interesting? i wouldn't necessarly expect anyone to visit him

Reaction to Death finding no one visiting Kirby interesting-- again, if you'd made an earnest attempt to dissect Corrik's likely targets, Kirby is a good one-- Kirby himself even mentions this (TO POPPY NO LESS) earlier in the day.

HanOfTheNekos posted...
"However there is a third possibility. The insane rant was because he had correctly identified Kirby as Roshan with his day action. The vote idling on Poppy was because he was going to use his night action to townclear."

Lopen, this is literally insane.


Han also goes hard on me first floating the idea it might be Poppy right out of the gates, calling me "loco" for even humoring the possibility that Corrik would have found Roshan and chose to be ambitious and use his ability to town clear, to the point where he ignores the meat of my post in an attempt to have me come off as an insane theorycrafter rather than credible.

There's also just a lot of energy put into lynching hb from Poppy, but without actually really building the case-- it feels like scum trying to get an easy mislynch when the work was done yesterday, imo.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:07:08 PM
#87
UltimaterializerX posted...
Nope. Kirby wasnt on board.

So your item is a one time use that works only on yourself that can see invisible things that visit you and possibly not anything else

I just want to make sure I have this right.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 3:05:48 PM
#86
Case building. Early today. In the first few posts after the flip (post 160-200 range of last topic)

PoppyTheNinja posted...
read the role PM, it's very likely corrik visited one of the mafia:

PoppyTheNinja posted...
well i went to look at corrik's posts in here and there was no hint about who he was targeting so that's pretty useless

I found not one but two possible targets from Corrik when I did the same. One happened to be you, but I find pretending not to find the insane Kirby as third party rant is suspicious. Why? Because if you pursue that very obvious hint line (which anyone should find, if they truly look at Corrik's posts, where he basically outright says "HEY GUYS I THINK KIRBY IS THE THIRD PARTY"), and we then determine it's not Kirby, you're the only other hint on the board in his strange vote for you. It's much better for you to push the narrative that he did not hint. This is what I mean by deflecting with respect to Corrik.

More to come.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:46:30 PM
#71
Ulti have you used your ward yet

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:34:46 PM
#65
Suffice to say no I didn't take that as a joke. I took that as a way to say "hey look there's as much evidence Corrik breadcrumbed MZero as a target as he did Poppy"

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:34:02 PM
#64
HanOfTheNekos posted...
You don't know what a joke is, do you

No need to demonstrate that skill either, then. You should probably just stick to probiotics or whatever your gimmick is supposed to be.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:31:13 PM
#62
My evidence is that Corrik has no other people he breadcrumbed in a way that town could reasonably pick up on (you floating the idea it might be MZero is absurd, and more evidence of you passively protecting Poppy) but Kirby and Poppy.

Kirby had a ward on himself, which I do believe, regardless of Kirby's alignment it requires too much to assume Death is lying about it.

I did ISO his posts to determine this but correct me if I'm wrong.

I will do an in depth dive on Poppy later today to help convince others, but right now I have everything I need to convince myself that it's the right lynch.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:28:21 PM
#61
Kirby321 posted...
That's valid if and only if the power role has already been revealed.

Because the alternative is (for example) me making an illusion of Corrik visiting Lea, and then town watcher outs themselves believing that Corrik killed Lea when in actuality it was my illusion.

THAT is what I fear the most.

Right. I'm not saying you necessarily fire blind. I'm just saying there are applications to your role. Particularly if you're being truthful about your upgrade.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:22:15 PM
#56
My arguments against you are not wrong

You tried to play dad and scold me for being meanieface to Sultan
Now you're trying to say Corrik didn't visit Poppy when for anyone trying to think about what Corrik would do and what the game setup could possibly be it's obvious.

You are repeatedly trying to discredit me without actually engaging me or protecting the townness of my targets directly. It reeks of scumminess.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:18:40 PM
#54
I know how Corrik plays power roles. He loves breadcrumbs, loves solving games. I have absolute confidence in my ability to read how Corrik would play that role, yes.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:17:21 PM
#52
No U!

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:16:44 PM
#50
I will say having visited the shop myself and seeing what the shard does for me, the possibility of Kirby being town is higher than I had initially thought.

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TopicDota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 5 - Mo Money Mo Mayo
Lopen
09/09/22 2:15:06 PM
#48
HanOfTheNekos posted...
Look, I can make stuff up to push an argument too.

No need to demonstrate that skill had my fill of it yesterday.

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