Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

Hey, Guy Gardner being an embarrassment to his species is his biggest strength!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Finished it. It was damn good, and impossible for me to put down.

It left me with a pretty strange, sad feeling, in a good way. The heaps on heaps of grey morality contrasted with Kyle, the hopeless romantic and eternally suffering sadboi, worked extremely well. ONLY Kyle could pull that off, so I'll admit it's a fantastic use of the character.

It's always cool to see a writer just go completely off the wall with established properties like this.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

A little over halfway through. Just finished #7.

Confession time: I've never really liked Kyle Rayner. Not outright disliked, and I like him as part of an ensemble like JLA or GLC, but he's by far my least favorite Earth GL. I'll admit this is because I've really only read him in post-Johns stuff. He's just always felt completely out of place, and it doesn't help that that was one of his defining character traits (along with having the WORST luck with women).

That said, it's a low bar but this is easily my favorite characterization of him post-Johns. It only took removing his GL abilities and most of his agency, as well as putting him in something where being out of place is a strength!

Also I liked the quick nod to Grayson with the Hypnos in that last issue. Cute.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Comic Thanos just wants some pussy, he's basically irrelevant to this.

And yeah I agree at face value, he's neutral. But I don't think it's a huge leap. It's just assuming that Thanos will turn out to be wrong, and also that Thanos is too smart to not know that on some level. But maybe I'm overanalyzing it. The alternative is that Thanos is right, which would be pretty dumb.

I guess this does show how subjective the moral axes are!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lopen posted...

My big hangup is I don't feel like Thanos's plan doesn't really makes sense to come from the mind of a lawful person. From a neutral mind makes sense as you could buy that as a path of least resistance. From a chaotic mind it could actually make sense too if the idea of randomness is inherent to the plan being the ideal on enforcing it-- that's why I initially said I could even see an argument for Chaotic Neutral more than lawful.

While it is an ideal that could technically be lawful if you're thinking it absolutely has to be done that way and you're forcing that on the populace, if nothing else I feel like a lawful mind would be more calculated in how they make the distinction in their mass genocide rather than just randomly doing it. This feels more like a process generated by the conclusion of a mind who doesn't care how, just wants half of the things removed ASAP.

I probably wont be able to phrase this in a way that doesn't sound stupid, but I don't view the random killing as chaotic. On such a big scale, it's just a statistic. I cannot think of anything more neutral than reliable randomness (except doing literally nothing), which is why you're able to make the argument for it across the entire lawful-chaotic axis. The scientific method isn't any more chaotic for utilizing controlled randomness as a useful tool.

I think of the dystopian fascist society trope where people are killed by lottery as population control. Is that not a "lawful" thing for a fictional society to do? It's still extremely structured but in a way that doesn't care for the specifics of the end result. I dont think it's out of the question.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lopen posted...

I don't think there's anything that says that Thanos wants "order." I'm pretty sure he just wants the universe to thrive by whatever means is most effective, not by limiting chaos or whatever.

Well then I guess that's where we disagree. Becase I don't think Thanos wants it to thrive using whatever method is best. I think he wants it to thrive in a way that is exactly in line with the standard he has already decided - the arbritary standard of "half the people are fucking dead." Thanos would consider the method AND result equally important. This deliberate process of following a specific ideal and wanting to make the entire universe follow for its own good is what I view as lawful.

But of course, nothing says that explicitly. It's all subtext and my interpretation because otherwise Thanos's plan doesn't make much sense. As I said before, if you take Thanos at his word and assume he is truly altruistic and opportunist, he is neutral.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lopen posted...

I think the discussion with Thanos is Neutral Evil vs Neutral Neutral if you don't believe he's being honest. Really not getting where you or Han are getting Lawful from him at all as he seems to be going path of least resistance the entire way-- is it just because he has henchmen or rules... whatever he rules? Neutral people can do these things. So can chaotic people.

But then half the people in this topic are just rewriting intent to something that isn't even a character traith because they don't understand the original intent when it comes to Lawful vs Chaotic anyway so who knows.

I said that in my post. It isnt about his desire to rule. His entire thing is imposing a specific order on the universe. That's Lawful.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Thanos is only Neutral if you believe that he truly cares about the universe's wellbeing first and foremost and isn't choosing his methods to prove himself right. I think the subtext points pretty heavily toward him being driven by his ego. So that makes him Lawful Evil - his methods are horrendous and he's choosing to deliberately impose them on the universe against its will.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I agree those decks are problems in a way, but it's really just a band-aid for the fact that they still haven't printed any meaningful, non-random interaction with combo decks.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Damn I wasn't really following the game too much after the expansion, but these are some fucking nuclear option nerfs. My first reaction is that Blizzard must be extremely desperate to get people to come back to the game this soon after an expansion drops.

Fuckin rip Druid, it was definitely out of hand but it's been one of my favorite classes since the game launched. I thought they'd hit Nourish or Wild Growth, not both.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

davidponte posted...

I've had The Omega Men on my wishlist for awhile as a self-proclaimed Tom King superfan. It'll be fun to read this before I pick up my own copy of it for my collection.

Ha, same. Thanks for helping me clear my backlog instead of adding to it, Scarlet!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I wasn't a fan of Parable. It felt a little too bluntly preachy for my tastes.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Finished Infinity Gauntlet. Really enjoyed it! It was a little slow to start but once it hit the battle I think it picked significantly and didn't slow down. My favorite part was definitely the fight between all the superheroes and Thanos. I really liked all the crazy deaths and creative fights, which I guess they had a lot more liberty with knowing they weren't going to stick. Oh, and I liked the art. It had its ups and downs due to the 90s style, but the Perez issues had some great shots.

Comics Thanos is super entertaining to watch. I can't really say he's more likable than they made him in the MCU, since he's a way more pathetic character. But he makes for a great show and oozes personality.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Weird take but I have Ages > Awakening > Seasons. I just did not get into Seasons nearly as hard even though it's not really any appreciatively worse.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I was honestly incredible and I was already expecting a good movie. This is without a doubt the best Spider-Man movie ever made and has a good shot of being a top 3 comic book movie period.

Between The LEGO Batman Movie and this, Lord and Miller have shown they really understand what makes superheroes great. Makes me sad they got kicked off The Flash!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Probably gonna do some reading tomorrow!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Tag

Didn't get around to reading the Moore story last week but I'll get around to it. I am looking forward to reading Infinity War, I skipped it when getting into Annihilation so I'll be interesting to go back.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

If I'm not back in a month, send Link
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LapisLazuli posted...

I think, based on the tone of the movie, the chances of a small Plastic Man cameo in Shazam could be high.

Plot twist: Plas was Shazam's suit all along
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Maniac64 posted...

They better not make it gritty and serious.

No, that's The Elongated Man. Totally different.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I want to get excited for this but also it's so early on. I'll believe it when they release a poster or something.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

whose dumbass fucking idea was it to put the most music ever in this game and then set one song on every stage to maximum and put the others nearly to the minimum

on over 100 stages
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I voted Persona 5 just out of it being the only JRPG I could bring myself to actually finish in a long time. I think the last one before that was Xenoblade 1. Nothing else has held my attention all the way through.

Also...the cast in P5 is not really any worse than 3 and 4. All the games are trying different approaches and succeed at accomplishing them. Preferring one over the other doesn't make the others bad.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Man I crafted Spell Hunter for the brawl since I opened Zuljin and Rhok'delar and I thought it be fun.

The mirror is fucking awful
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah it's not awful but the dubstep-ish beat is really dated and the chorus is bad.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

The last time Newgrounds was relevant was when Homestuck crashed their site in 2011.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

metroid composite posted...

I think it would be better, though, if there was a toned down version of Rexxar that was a quest, or had an even/odd restriction and start of game trigger, though. The feast or famine between "draw Rexxar" and "don't draw Rexxar" is kind-of extreme for some decks.

True, but the consistency of the quests and start of game triggers are a problem in the opposite way (Kibler talks a lot about this, but look at how strong Quest Rogue and Even/Odd decks have been). Plus those create deck building criteria and it's clear Blizzard wants multiple midrange decks to be viable. Maybe there is room for toning it down and having it still be good like building with smaller beasts or simply discovering a beast.

I'm dont know if there's an easy solution to the type of "value haymakers" they have to keep making to make midrange playable. It feels bad to keep seeing those card types but the game is so tempo based that swing turns are the best thing to do.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ColZach posted...

Hunter right now is why Blizzard should stop giving classes overpowered nonsense to push their agenda for a class to be what it isnt. Surprise, give hunter a broken hero card and a broken spell stone and theyll be late-game. Oooo, so fancy.

Well you can blame the community's utter hatred of Face Hunter or even more aggressive midrange versions for that. Ever since ONiK and the Call of the Wild nerf that's been the case. Of course when people hate what the class is and you have to build a new identity, you're gonna have to push cards.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I wasn't initially a fan of the exaggerated, bumbling Kent, just because in my mind I prefer Clark Kent to be closer to the "true" version of the character. But on subsequent reads it's easier to catch the self-awareness of the character under the surface, and it really does consistently lead to incredible moments. Supes always has to put on a bit of a show for the people at his job, and can only be himself around people he trusts. I think that's pretty real, even if taken to 11.

davidponte posted...

Admittedly, I haven't read that much Lois Lane, but her characterization here seems kind of...off? That's the best way I would explain it. I don't know if I've ever seen her as paranoid about Superman as she was in that second issue, and I find it kind of annoying that she still questions the Clark Kent thing two issues into her being told.

She feels off in the second issue because of paranoia plot decice, but other than that I think it's pretty true to her character as a skeptic. Modern Lois has been in on it for years, but for a Lois who spent years failing to prove it and just found it, it be more strange if she did just immediately accept it.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I've only ever read Annihilation, and would definitely be open to reading more! I thought Nova was pretty cool.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Gonk is a beast so you could use Witching Hour. Imagine the double Witching Hour + Floop + double Pounce DREAM

Still totally unreliable for every other reason you mentioned
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

When you guys say Tifa is "multidimensional," you're referring to her bust/waist/hip dimensions, right? Because in terms of personality, she is flat.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I also thought issue 9 had a pretty rushed resolution on a reread. It's a great concept, but man, I could have sworn it was more fleshed out. Maybe the animated movie did that?

I think it's intentional as a callback to the sillier pulpier Superman stories out there that do that sort of thing. #9 was the only one where it felt super jarring to me, because that whole issue is very condensed.

I guess it wasnt as perfect as I remembered, but god damn, so many top Superman moments are from this book.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

There's another great little character moment in the first issue, and I didn't even notice it until this readthrough!

When Lex is controlling the mutant bomber, he mentions he has to transmit on a 9 minute delay. That means he's reacting to things before they happen (and he responds to dialogue naturally, so I guess he predicted the dialogue because he's a supergenius). The mutant clutches at Superman's throat the same way Lex does to Lane, so that's when Lex says his last words as the mutant. Which makes it seem like he actually lost his temper talking to Lane and it isn't part of the show (or it could be both and Lex is just that smart). So when you recontextualize that it's Lex exploding, it becomes this very self-aware outburst about how he'll kill Superman even if it costs him his life.

I love everything about Lex Luthor in this series.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Oh also I agree with the message of "the game isn't about fixing problems, it's more about coming to terms with them" and I really like that message, except for the fact that they DID fix the cult problem, they caved in the mine and they all died. so I guess you CAN fix problems? through accidental murder???

Right, but that wasn't actually the main problem of the game, even though the characters were convinced it was. So maybe the message is "there isn't an easy fix, but you should try anyways (and sometimes a mine will collapse and kill your enemies)."
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I agree that the cult was heavy-handed but I honestly liked that it felt so divorced from Mae's personal story. Theres her personal problems, and her problems with others, and there are also horrible things going on in the world in addition to that. Mae confronts them because she thinks she needs to and it's the right thing to do (and it is), but doing so doesn't even fix any of her personal shit. In the end I just didnt think it was really about fixing shit, and more about coming to terms with it.

Also I agree that the game is emotionally challenging. I felt emotionally exhausted at times, and I don't even relate very much to Mae! I think I might have been initially disappointed there wasnt some big cathartic emotional payoff at the end but I honestly don't know what could have fulfilled that. It's kind of a non-ending, which I think suits the story as just a snapshot of one moment in Mae's life.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I can definitely see it being off-putting. Morrison loves celebrating the "weirdness" of comics and updating old-school Golden and Silver Age ideas, so I can see how the wackiness played completely straight could just seem stupid. But honestly I love it when comics pull shit like this. And there is some surprisingly good character stuff under all the flashiness. Like, of course Superman goes to rescue the genocidal lizard man who was just hurled into orbit. Of course he is on good terms with the king of the dinosaur people living at the center of the earth. Why wouldn't he be? He's a good person like that.

I will say the Jimmy Olson issue is a clear low point. And you'd definitely be doing yourself a disservice if you stopped before #5, which focuses on Luthor. At least read that one, even if you don't go any further.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I feel like it has to be related to Disney's streaming service.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I agree, I like him a lot. I got Leo Quintum vibes from the woman scientist that Lobdell introduced in his run, but I don't think anything from that stuck.

Also I read the theory that (major ASS spoilers) he's a reformed, time-traveling Lex from after the ending. I wouldn't put it past Morrison to have intended that, which would make him kinda awkward to introduce into a main continuity.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Just read the first issue. Who is this Leo Quintum character? I've never heard of him and he is really weird.

Leo Quintum is an original character made for All-Star Superman. Think of him like an anti-Lex Luthor. He's around to show what's possible if a top scientific mind in the DCU actually worked with Superman instead of against him.

And if you think HE'S weird then buckle up.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Oh damn. I was just wondering when we'd get to this book. ASS is so good.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Pretty sure I have the old $10 off from before the Amazon preorder revamp, it just isn't displaying properly. So if you did that, you're actually losing $2.50.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Skyward Sword has some of the most brilliant stuff in the series but also some of the laziest, shittiest stuff. I liked the sky as a sort of compromise of the WW ocean, the spirit trials were sweet, and some of the best dungeons in the series (Mining Facility, Cistern, Sandship, Sky Keep). But a lot of the moments in between that stuff felt like it was designed to waste your time. Boss refights, backtracking, the dumb minigames like escort missions and tadtones (apparently some people liked this but I couldn't stand them).

It definitely gets a bad rap. If it was more focused it would stand a shot at being the best 3D Zelda.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Both Astro City issues were pretty good. I liked the take on Superman. Part of the suspension of disbelief with Superman stories is that question of "why doesn't he just save people all the time?" I think the short answer to that is because he's superhuman but still human. So a story about a Superman who works full time and is still humanized, but in a much different, sadder way is just really interesting to see. Not how I thought that would go!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Finished Marvels. It was fantastic! Loved the more "historical" take on the Marvel history (reminds me a lot of JL: New Frontier), and seeing the context of the Marvel civilian reaction brought a new light to how I see that as a plot element in that universe. I just wish I was a bit more in tune with Marvel lore so I could catch all the references to characters and events, but it wasn't really necessary. I did have to look up Daniel Ketch for the final joke, but at least that was obviously going to be a joke!

Gonna dive into Astro City now
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik posted...

They want people to be generous and give more while they are not giving what they are supposed to the government to pitch in towards society. I think it is quite clear how it would be.

Your views on taxation are unrelated to thinking that your labor is being undervalued. Service staff are paid directly by the customer for the service. What if the waiter doesn't support taxation at all? There'd be no contradiction. If the waitress does support taxation, it's hypocritical but for other reasons.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

First of all "vast majority" of tipping going unreported is a massive overstatement. The "vast majority" of tips are going to be on credit card, which goes directly to the company's system and get accounted for immediately. Cash tips are increasingly rare.

Second of all, I don't see what's hypocritical. You can say it's wrong to not report cash tips but it's an entirely unrelated complaint from wanting to be tipped more.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

A little belated due to the holidays but I just finished Global Frequency. It wasn't bad, but I don't think the format is suited to Ellis's strengths. The series just wasn't clicking for me at first and I eventually realized why - it felt a little too much like a watered-down Planetary. Ellis's best for me comes when he can combine his snarky and sharp characterizations with his far out concepts, and with the rotating cast, more grounded nature, and episodic format made it feel like he wasn't getting room to breathe. I think the meme and magic issues were the worst example of this.

That said, there was a lot to like. All of my favorite stories came from after the halfway point, which is why it took me a while to finish. The Miranda and Aleph focus issues, the spy issue, and the finale were all great. Miranda Zero is just a very strong anchor that does play into the things I like from Ellis. And the rotating art was nice and good art could really carry some of the more narratively weak stories, like the parkour and hospital ones. Overall it was an interesting experiment and a good read, but not what I was expecting.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

So Gwen Stacy is the opposite of Thomas and Martha Wayne?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ninkendo posted...

Kraft Work became Arts & Crafts

this is my favorite copyright change in this part so far

WAY better than "Zipper Man"
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.