Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 404: Fox Tuckers Out, CNN Sours On Lemon

(+) Yeah! (+)

Boris Johnson has resigned as an MP following the investigation into him holding parties during lockdown recommending he be suspended (which would have triggered a by-election he would lose). Yesterday was a good day unless you are a rightwing populist chancer with terrible hair.

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1667528075347730432

You could have shown me this 10, 15 years ago and told me it was cut Fallout 3 dialogue from like Liberty Prime or Eden and I may have believed you lmfao

AMERICA WENT TO SLEEP LAST NIGHT WITH TEARS IN ITS EYES

Trump due to appear in court in about 2 hours. I think we get the mugshots from this one? NY had a law prohibiting it but I don't think that exists here. Judge has barred camera/videos/cellphones in the court today so we'll have to rely on drawings again. Says we'll get a transcript of the proceeding later today. And of course the media will be attending even if deviceless so we'll get accounts that way.

Meanwhile, high quality "not the onion" moment:

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/kevin-mccarthy-argues-that-trump-hoarding-documents-next-to-
the-toilet-was-sufficiently-secure-because-a-bathroom-door-locks/

url says it all (sorry had to break it up because character limit)

So I take it Trump has gone from condemning "the establishment" to condemning American institutions as a whole? I mean, I hate to say I saw this coming, but...

That dude with a real pig head on a wooden spear sure is a representation of the average Trump supporter

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/13/politics/e-jean-carroll-damages-trump-cnn-town-hall/index.html

A federal judge will allow E. Jean Carroll to amend her original defamation lawsuit against former President Donald Trump to include comments he made at a CNN town hall.

She should sue CNN for their part in it too, imo

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1668788744298680325?s=19

https://twitter.com/mollymcghee/status/1668969153456218112?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ

An absolute disaster is about to blow up any hopes for 2024 if Joe doesnt do something.

A whole generation about to get absolutely eviscerated

Recognizing it's a crazy amount, she was always going to have to pay that at some point, right? Take COVID out of the picture with the delay it brought and she'd still be responsible for that.

Someone jog my memory if there were any attempts by Congress to do something about student loan debt.

I'd imagine it's the Rs plan at this point to have payments come back (whether with bullshit back interest payments or not) because they can just blame it all on Biden. Not that the actually give a shit about the people affected. If anything, they hate anyone who goes to college, so it's a win-win to them.

Seanchan posted...

Someone jog my memory if there were any attempts by Congress to do something about student loan debt.

Not really, if we don't count Republicans constantly trying to undo it. That's why Biden eventually tried to forgive some of the debt instead, but then GOP courts...

Outside some meme strategies (that would likely get blocked by the courts even faster) this was basically inevitable once the national emergency around COVID ended. It fucking sucks but I'm not sure what else the administration can do if Congress refuses to act and GOP-stacked courts block any action he takes from the executive.

Blaming that on Biden (when he easily could have done nothing on student loans) is so dumb. The benefit that people got just by having interest frozen this long is pretty massive (far beyond when there was an *economic* justification from covid), not to mention him trying to cancel debt (whether that pans out or not).

I'm not understanding the complaining here. There have been no payments and no interest for more than 3 years. It's been a massive savings to people with a lot of student loans.

And, if you are not making enough money relative to loan amount to comfortably afford to pay student loans - income based repayment remains available on an opt-in basis. There are several types available and the more recent ones are very generous. For the person who shared a screenshot of their estimated monthly payment in that tweet - either that monthly payment is not based on income based repayment, or she makes at least 175k a year.

The problem with school loan forgiveness is that it isn't a very effective way to unburden the poor.

It tends to hit the upper class way more than you would like because they are more likely to go to college in the first place and they are more likely to attend higher costing schools.

They can afford to pay their school loans off but choose to float them for credit and because it's better usage of their money to invest in the stock market all money they could have paid on their school loans for a higher ROI than the interest on the loan is.

Student Loan Debt by Household Income
The total student loan debt is $1.75 trillion, and federal debt alone exceeds $1.62 trillion; households in higher income brackets are more likely to hold high amounts of debt.

• Households with income in the 90th percentile held 11% of all student loan debt prior to 2020.[1]
• Households in the highest income quartile (76th percentile and higher) owe 34% of student loan debt.
• Households with income in the 51st to 75th percentile hold 29% of student loan debt.
• 26st to 49th percentile households owe 24% of all outstanding student debt.
• The lowest income quartile (25th percentile and lower) owe 12% of all student loan debt.

Ah yes, the real reason Republicans are against student loan forgiveness: it doesn't help poor people enough.

lmao

Why should those who spent money they didn't have on school be forgiven? I spent money I didn't have on things to make my life better too. No one is looking to forgive that debt.

You signed the loan docs. you knew how much school cost, you knew you'd be in debt. I'm sorry your major in human behavior and psychology isn't making you enough money, find a job that will.

Obellisk posted...

Why should those who spent money they didn't have on school be forgiven? I spent money I didn't have on things to make my life better too. No one is looking to forgive that debt.

You signed the loan docs. you knew how much school cost, you knew you'd be in debt. I'm sorry your major in human behavior and psychology isn't making you enough money, find a job that will.

Because most of the people that agree to these loans are 17 years old and were sold a bill of damaged goods?

Basically closing off access to good paying jobs unless you have a degree, then throttling down the availability of said good jobs all while then insisting you be 10s of thousands in debt before you've even spent two years being able to legally drink.

It's also funny that we as a society both mock anything that would help mental health issues (like psychologists) but then desperately blame the lack of them for most of societies woes.

But yeah saying "you knew what you were getting into!" is stupid logic when 18 year old are very ill-equipped to make those decisions. We don't even trust them to rent a car.

TheRock1525 posted...

It's also funny that we as a society both mock anything that would help mental health issues (like psychologists) but then desperately blame the lack of them for most of societies woes.

I was just picking a major, I didn't mean to insinuate any negativity to mental health at all.

And the "I was an ignorant child when I signed Loan documents to go to a very expensive school I knew I couldn't afford" isn't a great argument for why you shouldn't have to pay your loan.

I was an ignorant child when I got my first credit card. I got a job, I paid it off.

Student loans are the only debt that can't be removed during a declaration of bankruptcy. Their interest rates are higher than other kinds of loans, and the terms of this interest can be changed after the contract for the loan is signed and funds disbursed. They're more likely to be mismanaged and have errors because the companies that manage them are objectively bad at what they do.

The ultra rich got plenty of debt forgiven from their covid loans. Debts get forgiven all the time under the rug. Do we need to do more to help the lower class get secondary education? Of course. But don't let perfect be the enemy of good ffs. This should be seen as a step to making all college more affordable for everyone, not a final action to take and be done with it.

PeaceFrog posted...

Student loans are the only debt that can't be removed during a declaration of bankruptcy

See this is something that I find unfair. Debt is debt is debt and bankruptcy protections exist for a reason.

But flat out telling the government to forgive your loan or give you money to help pay it is a big no from me.

Ok I'll make sure to let them know that the next time the banks that own your credit cards need a bail out from the government

Well bail outs are dumb too.

And yet big banks and business get bailouts and parachutes to the tune of trillions of dollars a year and no one bats an eye.

PeaceFrog posted...

The ultra rich got plenty of debt forgiven from their covid loans.

These were loans in name only. It was just a mechanism to give businesses money with strings that were supposed to force them to use it on keeping people employed.

I mean, I bat my eyes at it. But one asshole from NJ ain't gunna change anything. I'll just kvetch that no one is looking to freeze my debt interest rates or forgive the debt I've been forced to accrue in order to better my life.

*shrug* Air Force paid for my college and I still think student loans are a predatory scam.

LordoftheMorons posted...

These were loans in name only. It was just a mechanism to give businesses money with strings that were supposed to force them to use it on keeping people employed.

And most of them didn't do that so it was just a bailout with a pretty name

PeaceFrog posted...

And most of them didn't do that so it was just a bailout with a pretty name

my ex boss took out 3 ppe loans (about a million dollars) during the pandemic and still fired half his staff. The rich gunna keep on riching.

It's of benefit to society to have an educated populous. That's how we advance. And yes, education also includes more vocational training as well.

Unfortunately, one political party has decided that it's better to have uneducated society that votes based on FUD. And thus, education and learning becomes political.

Obellisk posted...

I was just picking a major, I didn't mean to insinuate any negativity to mental health at all.

Your argument was literally "get a better job" towards people who help with mental health, it was absolutely negativity.

Obellisk posted...

And the "I was an ignorant child when I signed Loan documents to go to a very expensive school I knew I couldn't afford" isn't a great argument for why you shouldn't have to pay your loan.

You miss the part where most colleges and loan departments lie to students about "debt they couldn't afford."

college shouldn't be a job training program. education has universal benefits

the main reason that Republicans rail against college debt in particular while overlooking other types of forgiveness has everything to do with demographics: college-educated people tend to be more likely to vote Democrat. Punishing people more likely to vote against them is ABSOLUTELY part of it.

TheRock1525 posted...

Your argument was literally "get a better job" towards people who help with mental health, it was absolutely negativity.

I just picked a rando major. next time I make this argument I'll say Communications, happy?

Obellisk posted...

I mean, I bat my eyes at it. But one asshole from NJ ain't gunna change anything. I'll just kvetch that no one is looking to freeze my debt interest rates or forgive the debt I've been forced to accrue in order to better my life.

So is the only reason you don't want this is that it wouldn't benefit you personally? That's incredibly selfish.

Obellisk posted...

I just picked a rando major. next time I make this argument I'll say Communications, happy?

the problem that the argument is rotten from the start, not the major you pick. Plenty of jobs that benefit from a communications degree.

Hbthebattle posted...

So is the only reason you don't want this is that it wouldn't benefit you personally? That's incredibly selfish.

it's that it focuses on one group of people and it seems like it's all those people can talk about.

Obellisk posted...

it's that it focuses on one group of people and it seems like it's all those people can talk about.

"I wish all these poors would stop BITCHING about loans they chose to take out! Don't they know that they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?"

Most of politics is deciding who to give money and when. Student debt relief is a big talking point for a lot of people who would be impacted because if it returns with no changes - ignoring the republican call to retroactively change the terms of the deal and apply full interest to balances since the start of the pause - then they're going to be significantly worse off than they were before. Even the subsidized student loans have a higher interest rate than my mortgage.

If you're at all worried about a recession, forcing millions of people to start throwing money down the drain is definitely going to slow down consumer spending.

Hbthebattle posted...

"I wish all these poors would stop BITCHING about loans they chose to take out! Don't they know that they can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?"

that really not what i am saying. However its clear i've struck a nerve with you so i'm sorry for that.

Obellisk posted...

I mean, I bat my eyes at it. But one asshole from NJ ain't gunna change anything. I'll just kvetch that no one is looking to freeze my debt interest rates or forgive the debt I've been forced to accrue in order to better my life.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/6/9/AAD2d5AAEkct.jpg

Obellisk posted...

that really not what i am saying. However its clear i've struck a nerve with you so i'm sorry for that.

You're doing a really good job of saying it even if you don't think you are =)

If we allow student loan forgiveness now, colleges will be motivated to charge even higher tuition. Distribute capital to young people directly if you want, but don't make it conditional on paying the colleges.

Reg posted...

You're doing a really good job of saying it even if you don't think you are =)

Not one of my greatest attributes.

Obellisk posted...

that really not what i am saying. However its clear i've struck a nerve with you so i'm sorry for that.

then what are you saying, exactly?

Obellisk posted...

I mean, I bat my eyes at it. But one asshole from NJ ain't gunna change anything. I'll just kvetch that no one is looking to freeze my debt interest rates or forgive the debt I've been forced to accrue in order to better my life.

That sucks, but student loan forgiveness is still the right thing to do.

I worked through high school and college, and had $2,000 in student debt when I graduated, which I paid off with six months before they started charging interest. I was incredibly lucky.

Would it benefit me right now if they forgave student debt? Nope, mine was paid off 17 years ago. However, I still think we should have student loan forgiveness. Not having that debt was a huge weight off my shoulders, and I would love it if more people had that same freedom that I was lucky enough to get.

Obellisk posted...

Not one of my greatest attributes.

It's incredible to me that you can know this for ten years and do absolutely nothing to attempt to address it.

Either that or you're just trolling, I dunno

RaidenGarai posted...

I worked through high school and college, and had $2,000 in student debt when I graduated, which I paid off with six months before they started charging interest. I was incredibly lucky.

Would it benefit me right now if they forgave student debt? Nope, mine was paid off 17 years ago. However, I still think we should have student loan forgiveness. Not having that debt was a huge weight off my shoulders, and I would love it if more people had that same freedom that I was lucky enough to get.

this with different numbers