Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 5: Poor Dumb Harry.

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Your sarcasm detector is something else.

Hey Han. If this game is 3 + 1 I think you or Dumey is the most likely + 1 candidate. What say you?

Well I think Dumey is Town so

UltimaterializerX posted...

Man. RIGHT after I laugh at Sultan for not spotting a joke. Brutal.

:)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/2/5/AAfJ4EAADeE5.jpg

All of us right now

ctesjbuvf posted...

I think at some point Chris must have pressured scum without really doing it, his votes are all over. I first thought that was Death but it was clearly not. I would not think Sutlan was more or less on the table regardless of what Chris flips, for what it's worth.

Okay. I can understand that Chris would probably have pushed someone on his team at some point, so I can understand that.

The narrative in my head is just that I think Sultan was the getaway car after he poked Ulti and Han.

The question becomes, Ulti, if Bus Driver doesn't exist, then why did Death die?

I mean, successful Doctor + vig who hasn't claimed shot is a thing, but aside from that, I'm not the only person who would have come into day ready to unload into Death.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I'm very aware of how my last-second vote looks bad. Like I tend to do Day 1, I panicked those last few minutes and felt I needed to put my vote on someone, thinking others would, too. I had no idea who was scum and just went with my gut. That's really it.

If it makes you feel better I wasn't specifically attacking you. I was more or less looking at all the late votes.

I'm not bus driver, no, and I'm about to get to something like that, though let's not act like bus driver is the only option.

Despite the question relying on imagining that I was right for a moment, you sure aren't happy to imagine that for a moment >_>

UltimaterializerX posted...

I would absolutely shocked if me + bus driver exists.

If you're BP, bus driver can exist; it's certainly more plausible than a straight redirector. Because instead of nullifying kills by using it on you, they can trade two actions that aren't kills. Unlike with redirector, it varies whether a driver can change who is killed, right?

I would think that Death wasn't driven for that reason.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Well I think Dumey is Town so

I don't know, seeing as the way he asked me if Chris was "exhibiting pro-town behavior" (can find if needed) kind of rubs me the wrong way now that Chris flipped scum. It feels... knowing.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

If it makes you feel better I wasn't specifically attacking you. I was more or less looking at all the late votes.

I know, just thought I would explain my thought process since I want to help my fellow townies.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Scum assumed he would be scanned innocent by cop?

There is an ocean between bus driver and Deaths death.

Scum assumed a claimed vanilla would be scanned innocent by Cop, so they shot the vanilla?

That is simply not logical.

Bus driver can indeed exist with BP too, Ulti. Bus Driver and BP requires two people to stop a kill. Doctor only requires one.

See the falacy in Sheep's initial explanation to me, was the assumption that scum would need a group of JC/Dumey/Wall/me for mislynches, so they shot vanilla Death, but vanilla Death was absolutely a mislynch option as well, so why not shoot into a group of people with a bigger chance than 0 of hitting power?

Then Ulti comes in and doubles down on this line of thinking and gets to attack Sheep because of it on top, while, as far as I read that post, using experience with scum Chris to suggest that team would indeed shoot vanilla Death in that scenario.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I'm not bus driver, no, and I'm about to get to something like that, though let's not act like bus driver is the only option.

Despite the question relying on imagining that I was right for a moment, you sure aren't happy to imagine that for a moment >_>

I guess a Redirector could work but I'd assume someone would maybe claim that?

BCT is right. BP + Bus Driver can be played around by scum by shooting the BP. Standard mafia wifom.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Maybe it is as simple as MZero/you/Justin. Id give up too if I was Chris because two of you just cant be here during lynch time.

This logic has so many holes in it.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I guess a Redirector could work but I'd assume someone would maybe claim that?

Only if they wanted to die tonight.

I mean it is possible that Death was an extra kill and scum had one of their kills directed to Ulti.

Okay ctes I'll play here a bit who would have scum shot?

Thought I see that Death was a mislynch candidate scum might have wanted to keep him on the board or something.

I could see this alternative as well somone towny vigs Death or I guess a sk could have killed Death too if there is one.
And doc saved the proper target or something.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Only if they wanted to die tonight.

I mean it is possible that Death was an extra kill and scum had one of their kills directed to Ulti.

Oh that is a good thought to extra kill and a regular kill missed

ctesjbuvf posted...

BCT is right. BP + Bus Driver can be played around by scum by shooting the BP. Standard mafia wifom.

Yeah, driver is significantly less powerful than a straight redirect. One could exist, sure. But the rules vary way too much with that role for us to know its parameters this game. Best to not spend time theorizing when we have scum to find.

Sultan wanting any redirector or driver to claim is very pro-scum. I'm not liking that look on him.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Only if they wanted to die tonight.

I mean it is possible that Death was an extra kill and scum had one of their kills directed to Ulti.

Maybe im thinking the application wrong. Like X targets now go to y. Like the killers identity would be known for sure and catching a scum so that would be okay to give yourself up in this small of a game I'd think.

There is almost no chance any member scum even considered shooting Death for a single second last night but we lack the information to figure out why he died. It's that simple at the moment.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Yeah, driver is significantly less powerful than a straight redirect. One could exist, sure. But the rules vary way too much with that role for us to know its parameters this game. Best to not spend time theorizing when we have scum to find.

Sultan wanting any redirector or driver to claim is very pro-scum. I'm not liking that look on him.

Bus driver not as much so no but if I'm thinking Redirector correctly it ID a scum and that is protown

Am I even thinking about this right?

This is why I don't like hypothetical.

Crescent-Moon posted...

There is almost no chance any member scum even considered shooting Death for a single second last night but we lack the information to figure out why he died. It's that simple at the moment.

I agree with this. I find the specific interaction that Ctes pointed out with Sheep coming up with an explanation and Ulti calling it out for revealing the plan is the more interesting point here.

I tend to agree with ctes and co. But as crescent said, we most likely lack sufficient info to piece that puzzle together.

still would be cool for ulti to answer the premise of ctes question and take a stance on jc without going oh let me wait until jc makes the list I ask him to make when we might be looking at 24 irl hours before we get anything from jc again

I'm a bit sad Sheep disappeared before answering me. I mean, I'm sure he had legit irl reasons, just sad.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Do you know who Conor Mcgregor is?

Ill answer this question once you answer ctes (and give even a quick meaningful take on sultans jc iso)

And do you really want to think back 30 years from now and still wonder if wall knows who Conor Mcgregor is? Its not worth the risk!

UltimaterializerX posted...

You guys are considering a role that no one has claimed with no evidence it exists.

Occulams Razor. Simple explanation is true until there is actual evidence.

If a leading mislynch candidate being killed by scum n1 doesnt qualify as reason enough to consider the role, evidence is a high burden of proof

Especially in this game

UltimaterializerX posted...

https://youtu.be/dF_udGNzkNA

Chris did what he wanted too lol

Board 8 lynched Town Hero last game

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Board 8 lynched Town Hero last game

Murdering Mario was the turning point.

We all know Mario and Bowser are secretly working together every time the princess is kidnapped. Bowser gets his cut of the reward.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Chris was scum. I am Town Hero. Huge difference.

alright say youre Kirk or Spock or something (not sure who in Star Trek lore makes sense to be BP but that aside)

doesnt all of spending 30 posts arguing if bus driver exists waste towns time and energy. Why not just answer ctes hypothetical instead of getting annoyed and borderline defensive by the thought of bus driver existing, theres no harm in answering ctes and just adding but I highly doubt this role exists. Same with addressing jc questions

Ulti I want to believe youre Town hero because if so youre a great asset to town, your involvement in lynching Chris would be a great example if youre town. But if thats true you would help us way more by toning down the Conor McGregor and engaging with whats being asked of you re: jc and ctes hypothetical

I would see that not as getting bossed by lesser mafia players but being a servant leader among townies

Not a full ISO, just a collection of some posts. Having to look through this is your punishment for not giving me a quick rundown, Han. >:(

3.070 Sheep doing an ISO of Han says Han's vote was the worst on Sheep because it was based on Sheep having a gut town read on Death after one post.
3.071 Chris jokingly instigates by telling Sheep to strike him [Han] down.
3.073 Sheep says he's considering it, but backs off because he liked Han's JC vote.
3.098 Sheep asks Chris to weigh in on Han's unvote. Clarifies to Han that Han's "I vaguely agree of don't care about the other cases against Sheep, but I don't think he can actually read Death that well" is not a believable read.
Also Sheep claims he left off his flavor specifically as a bait for Han, but self admits it's his ego getting in the way.
3.104 Han says the Death read reasoning wasn't the biggest thing he voted Sheep for, it was the biggest thing that was yet unsaid. His reason for unvoting was rereading P1T1 and coming to the conclusion that it didn't make sense from scum perspective.
3.108 Sheep thanks Han for clarifying, and walks back that him not claiming flavor was not entirely to bait Han, just something he was thinking of at the time.

3.106 Chris says he'll review the Sheep/Han thing, but will get back to it later.
Did this ever happen? I don't know if Chris got distracted or something, but he goes on to talk about other things, and then start his Murder/Veto game, and to my knowledge never goes back to address Sheep/Han. This might be totally irrelevant, but it was interesting to me.

Just for reference, Sheep's murder/kill list was
3.199 "Murder: Han, Lea, MZero (this is pretty hard and just the first names that came to mind, because there's really nobody I feel rough on just yet and I have basically zero compelling reason to feel good on any of these).

Veto: Wall, Crescent, Death (a little easier, although I almost put Ulti in over Death! I don't think anything could convince me to lynch the first two, while I still haven't gotten The Tell which would make me all but certain Death is Town)."

3.209-274 Han asks Sheep if Han being on his kill list is an inconsistency because of the flavor bait? Sheep says it was a null tell overall, and Han says "So you intentionally did something to get a reaction out of me, with zero purpose to getting a reaction out of me?" Sheep says the purpose was to get Han's vote off of him, and Han doesn't think that's a believable motive.

I'm gonna be honest, I don't understand this exchange at all. I don't really get the "flavor bait" in the first place, let alone why it matters.I think it comes down to Han saying that Sheep's argument only makes sense if he is assuming Han is town and actively determining whether or not Sheep's claim is real, so listing Han on Sheep's kill list is counteractive to that? I didn't do a post by post list because there's a ton of small back and forth posts between the two. But I'm not sure there's much here other than Han thinking Sheep is listing Han as his primary suspect when Sheep is also hinting that Han is town.

Honestly I find the fact that Chris abstained from commenting at any point the more interesting part of this whole exchange.

wallmasterz posted...

alright say youre Kirk or Spock or something (not sure who in Star Trek lore makes sense to be BP but that aside)

doesnt all of spending 30 posts arguing if bus driver exists waste towns time and energy. Why not just answer ctes hypothetical instead of getting annoyed and borderline defensive by the thought of bus driver existing, theres no harm in answering ctes and just adding but I highly doubt this role exists. Same with addressing jc questions

Isn't this almost exactly what I said when you asked why I said this wasn't worth diving into

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Sheep's vote on Han was something that stuck out the me before I voted Chris, as something about it just didn't feel right to me. The vote to save Death at this point was obviously Chris, not Han.

No one defended Death yesterday as much as Sheep and I did (We both called Death as town almost immediately, and I didn't buy Death's vote on Han being scum driven at all without some major conspiratorial bullshit), but when the chips were on the table, I was on the best not-Death train, and he found an excuse to avoid it.

Which is why I asked him a couple of hours ago to refresh for me exactly why he voted Han.

Town Hero is probably Spock. A beloved icon of the series known for "Live Long and Prosper." That last part is my hypothesis, but I don't want to dwell on this any longer. Flavor Meta is not useful here.

Death may have been the kill because that's like the Spanish Inquisition, in that nobody in their right mind would expect him. There may also be a driver, as discussed, but we need a couple more pieces of information to discern that.

A few reads:
Sultan isn't making any sense. A scum redirector would not have redirected the kill. Wanting a redirector to claim would help scum. I don't think Sultan is town.
Yesterday, JC was waffling a bit, and that interaction doesn't look good.
I still can't get Dumey asking me if Chris was trying to solve the game out of my head, given how it was phrased.
Sheep is suspicious. Just the way he's acting is setting off my radar.

I'm liking Crescent more and more also.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


thank you Lea I was just about to say this. No one is trying to say lets spend half of d2 debating if bus driver exists. We are trying to get ulti to entertain the possibility death was not scums intended target, which you, crescent, said you view as a virtual certainty.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

A few reads:
Sultan isn't making any sense. A scum redirector would not have redirected the kill. Wanting a redirector to claim would help scum. I don't think Sultan is town.

I dont think you understand.
I'm saying a town Redirector. They would know who sent in the kill! How is not unsta murdering that person beneficial to town?!