Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 5: Poor Dumb Harry.

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

I like you with long hair <_<

You doing the beard too? Oh and you should just claim if town asap.

My hair is long and pettable, 'cause I'm a kitten <3

I thought Sultan was trying to get his JC vote justified after making it and wasn't convinced it was something he actually believes in because he seemed to jump around the reasoning. It was also odd that he talked about requesting lists yet couldn't recall I was being requested despite that and having been told. Then he continued to just aimlessly vote with little explanation. Although it's a point for him that Chris flipped scum.

can I get peoples thoughts on mass claiming. I know some people swear by it, and others are philosophically opposed

Hey, should be back in like an hour. Apologies for the big delay.

wallmasterz posted...

can I get peoples thoughts on mass claiming. I know some people swear by it, and others are philosophically opposed

Depends on the situation. I think it's way to early to do one.

We are in a decent place without it. It would just offer scum some free information

Also, JC reallly shoulda checked me or Death yesterday. Honestly not sure I buy the claim based on that alone. Will think about it in more detail when I can do more than just skim through.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The 7/10 I mentioned at the time probably.

I tend to lay in my bed with my phone at end of days never really having a specific time to call it quits. If I have something the next day anyways.

Last game was 12:5 for town/scum ratio and if I had to guess this game is probably 10:4 assuming no independent?

so right now we are probably down to 9:3. If all scum has power and we have a cop, doc, and maybe two other town powers that leaves 4 town powers left, possibly including jc, and 3 scum powers. If jc is town and scanned someone its a 50/50 chance whether this person is town or scum

wallmasterz posted...

can I get peoples thoughts on mass claiming. I know some people swear by it, and others are philosophically opposed

It has positives and negatives, but the general logic is that it puts a timer on town scanners' lives. Lets say we have one cop, and one doctor, in the setup, and everyone claims. That means scum kills the doctor today, and the cop tomorrow, unless they have an extra kill to burn. So the cop would be able to give us best case scenario one scan from N1 and then between night kills and roleblocks, very likely gives us no further scan. Maybe one more from N2 if scum has no way to roleblock or strongman.

So it's kind of a numbers game if we want to let the cop and doctor die because we think we can solve the game in the next two days and hit scum every day.

I am typically anti-mass claim in general because I think it ruins the fun of the game for people, but there's no doubt that it could make the game incredibly more solvable if we did it. Would you like it if you rolled Cop and didn't get more than one scan because a mass claim happened?

If jc is town:

he says hey I followed x player
if its a townie, scum immediately knows x player is town power
town has no idea of alignment regardless of alignment
x player either claims to be town power without specifying role or specifies role
even if townie lies about role (kinda like Han and ctes gambit in paper Mario to get goombario Han an extra scan) scum still knows its town power and town has to decide if we even think this person is legit town or not?

jc telling us who they tracked kind of feels like a win for scum

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

We both know that if I came in said X person is a power role, people would be like wtf jc why didnt you at least wait a second before sharing this especially given they may disagree with my read.

Kinda damned if I do, damned if I dont.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Objectively yes, the best play for town in this situation is pretty obviously to pressure whoever you scanned to see what else you can gather from them.

UltimaterializerX posted...

It is, analytically, always the correct play for town.

if everyone actually claims, sure. No guarantee of that though

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I think its pretty clear Im worried about backlash, but again, in the sense that I dont want to needlessly expose power.

I get the sense youre getting dangerously close to saying well youre not providing info so thats bad but youre also not actually pressuring me to provide the info. Pick one?

But yeah anyways Ultis been the only one to actually just say just tell us so clearly theres a general agreement that withholding the information has some kind of merit.

Jc thoughts on your said person now? Do you still think they are scummy?

I'm going to jump on the train and say just go for it. Not because I think it's the best strategy, but because I'm impatient and we're in a holding pattern.

Well this seems like enough interest to share.

Give me a few to type up my argument and get citations.

I agree with Lea here, I think if you hadn't immediately blocked yourself from posting actual suspicions of players with your initial claim, you'd have more room to stand on. But going forward we're not going to accept "I can't tell you who I think is scummy because I might reveal them."

EDumey posted...

I agree with Lea here, I think if you hadn't immediately blocked yourself from posting actual suspicions of players with your initial claim, you'd have more room to stand on. But going forward we're not going to accept "I can't tell you who I think is scummy because I might reveal them."

It's been over an hour and a half since I crossed all but two, maybe three people off the list given how much he had already said.

And if he's town and I can do that on no information then scum might already have an idea of who he targeted in the first place meaning all this did was prepare them for it. It's completely botched if it's town, but I kind of.. Feel like scum would have a better plan than to claim and just flounder like this? It's weird.

So, I scanned Crescent last night and they moved. I just want to specify that my scan came back with neutral language around my target, and did not specifically say "Crescent got up" because we've been chatting about a BD/Redirector. But I have been given no indication to believe that my target changed.

I scanned Crescent because I thought that she fit well into the Death/Chris dreamteam that I had concocted, and even somewhat independently just through D1 and how she was interacting with Chris. Early D1, Chris and Crescent had a lot of kind of off-the-cuff exchanges and I kind of joked to myself in my head "what if Chris and Crescent are scumbuddies" because it felt like they were too comfortable with each other, I can't really explain it.

Then towards the end of D1 Crescent's behavior surrounding Death and Chris was quite strange.

Approx 2/3 of the way through Topic 4:
Crescent-Moon posted...

If there's something nagging me about Death it's that he's shown non-committal support to basically every train presented recently. It feels a lot more follow-y than solve-y.

Start of Topic 5:
Crescent-Moon posted...

Death's behavior of being willing to die and the vote pattern actually makes a crazy amount of sense for the Death/Chris conspiracy.

It also makes sense for both being town thinking the other is town.

I kinda think they're the same alignment here.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I want to vote Sultan more than any of these options but I kinda think Death is town now so

##Vote: Chris

I feel kinda sick right now.

The way that Crescent danced around Death/Chris was very strange. Crescent chimes in with a comment that screams "well I won't actually say whether Death is scummy or not but this gives me room to vote him if I want", then pairs Chris/Death and later calls Death town for unclear reasons. It was kind of unclear whether he was actually saying town/town or scum/scum was more or less unlikely, but that's not really the point.

The point is that Crescent tied Chris/Death together, then is convinced Death is town, and then votes Chris instead of tying the lynch on Han? If you think Death is town and Chris is the same alignment, why vote Chris? Or why not at least tie it with Han if you're so uncertain?

I have to acknowledge that Crescent's vote was really the one that put the nail in Chris' coffin but I wouldn't put it past an enterprising scum player who sees the train (and thinks to themself that Chris' role is very hard to activate) to try and take it as a chance to end up on the right side of the lynch. As well, I am very prepared to take tons of grains of salt with the whole situation given that Chris was not around for EoD when he was a role that required him to be around for EoD.

I actually think the Death flip helps my case against Crescent because it adds an element of "I knew not to go near Death EoD" which lines up with the hesistancy.

Could be wrong but those are my thoughts!

(sorry for the lateness; had an appointment)

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I'm saying a town Redirector. They would know who sent in the kill! How is not unsta murdering that person beneficial to town?!

So you want a town Redirector to claim so we can kill ONE scum? I think that's a bit of a stretch because we'd get one scum in exchange for multiple townies. The Redirector in this case would be suiciding and that might be what scum WANTS. It could be that they're trying to set that as a trap. Redirector fear is also a red flag, as if scum knows there is one. Can you confirm this?

As for my reads on JC and Sheep, I don't know what possessed me to say that without elaborating, but it was probably me being tight on time. It's mostly for the same reasons as everyone else. Page 3 of topic 2, for instance, as JC looking quite odd, again including his list. He felt like he had early reads on everyone and pushed an ISO on Death, who we now know is town. Was all that scum theatre, or was it him actually trying to solve the game? JC also had a vote on Death, who's town, so I'd think one of JC or Dumey was scum trying to save Chris. JC's dodginess for revealing who he tracked is a bit eyebrow-raising, too, as if he needs to suss out who he can accuse.

Sheep... the vote on Han yesterday is WEIRD, in retrospect, since Chris voted that way too... as did Death, who was town. Since we know Chris was scum and he got hit with a B8 Special, I'd think one scum is among the votes for him, if that. It's mostly just POE and my gut. But I really don't know.

Does this at least help?

As for mass claiming, I don't like it right now. It's only Day 2, and any town power that's honest immediately gets killed by scum. Scum claims could be vanilla or a basic power like JC's is. They can't get caught in a lie or counter-claimed, after all. Day 3, however, is when it starts to become viable.

I have kind of a headache and am gonna take a nap shortly. Here's hoping I feel better enough to be more coherent soon.

I was not on that list because I discounted everyone on the Chris lynched based on you saying Death's dying made you feel worse.

Like claiming to scan me makes zero sense given what you already said.

Crescent do you claim to have moved?

Crescent-Moon posted...

I was not on that list because I discounted everyone on the Chris lynched based on you saying Death's dying made you feel worse.

What are you saying here

This isn't meant to be a passive aggressive jab, I just actually cannot parse the sentence >_>

EDumey posted...

Crescent do you claim to have moved?

Yep.

But to scan me of all people last night after a vote that essentially sealed Chris' death?

That sounds like something scum does, not town. I actually thought there was a good chance I'd get shot.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

The only people really on my list were Dumey and Ctes based on what he'd already said.

Like if he's town that scan is the biggest throw I've seen since Rana tracked Plum for absolutely no reason night 4 in Psych.

Crescent-Moon posted...

But to scan me of all people last night after a vote that essentially sealed Chris' death?

Classic "but I did the thing that was so clearly town!"

Please see "I have to acknowledge that Crescent's vote was really the one that put the nail in Chris' coffin but I wouldn't put it past an enterprising scum player who sees the train (and thinks to themself that Chris' role is very hard to activate) to try and take it as a chance to end up on the right side of the lynch. As well, I am very prepared to take tons of grains of salt with the whole situation given that Chris was not around for EoD when he was a role that required him to be around for EoD."

BlueCrystalTear posted...

So you want a town Redirector to claim so we can kill ONE scum? I think that's a bit of a stretch because we'd get one scum in exchange for multiple townies. The Redirector in this case would be suiciding and that might be what scum WANTS. It could be that they're trying to set that as a trap. Redirector fear is also a red flag, as if scum knows there is one. Can you confirm this?

Yes and no this is a small game having probably what 4 total? Killing Chris who was scum day 1 and killing confirmed scum day 2 would be huge and give us alot of room to move to ge the last 2

But again this is all hypothetical

I definitely don't think a fake claim from JC is impossible here. He could be any kind of scum scanner, not just a motion detector. But if there is a scum role like a Ninja that makes them fear track/watcher, just like last game, then maybe JC felt pressured to claim who they actually visited.

JC, I'll say that I definitely think Crescent had every to believe Death was town by the end, and it's probably fairly similar to what I went through at end of day, because I also went from thinking Death was scum to Death was probably town at end of day. But I won't speak for them and let them explain that thought process if they want to.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

^

EDumey posted...

I definitely don't think a fake claim from JC is impossible here. He could be any kind of scum scanner, not just a motion detector. But if there is a scum role like a Ninja that makes them fear track/watcher, just like last game, then maybe JC felt pressured to claim who they actually visited.

JC, I'll say that I definitely think Crescent had every to believe Death was town by the end, and it's probably fairly similar to what I went through at end of day, because I also went from thinking Death was scum to Death was probably town at end of day. But I won't speak for them and let them explain that thought process if they want to.

It's less about the Death thought process in a vacuum but more that she tied Chris/Death alignment-wise, says one is town, and then votes the other.

It just doesn't really follow.