Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 5: Poor Dumb Harry.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Heads up: I have requested a replace and will no longer be posting

I take it as a reaction test. The progression from Ulti does feel kinda weird though. He sees me attack you, and immediately fishes me to see if I'm cop and scanned you. It's not until almost a full page later he says he thinks you're town.

It's not like it's unusual for me to come in hot when I have something that I think needs to immediately be addressed. Like I blew up Sultan's shit day 4 in Elden Ring so fast he didn't even know what hit him, and just like in this case it was someone I had been townleaning on the day before.

Though, this odd progression would only have scum motives for Ulti if you two were scum together and Ulti was trying to figure out if he had to burn you immediately.

This is basically just a post to remember if Wallz flips scum at some point and Ulti is alive in final 3 that probably no one is actually going to remember.

Though Wallz reply to me mitigated a lot of the bad feelings I had towards him. I feel like scum in that situation at least gets a little defensive, and he didn't react defensively at all.

Man, I really thought Death looked scum after Chris flipped.
Although hopefully having two lynch candidates flipped can give some feedback upon looking back. That will be step one I guess.

Chris himself went to goddamn sleep right before deadline. If scum thought he was their wincon like is being presented here (which is already super flawed given they amount of people they'd kill him late by principle), and non of his teammates were around, no way Chris doesn't do more. Chris' role isn't even that great tbh.

We can at least safely throw the idea that Chris could be confirmed town with that role straight into the trash can and then empty it.

Crescent-Moon posted...

The question I continue to ponder is why does claimed town vanilla that some people probably still think is scum die in the first place.

You, Lea and Han are all likely watcher or doctor targets, and scum just loses if they get caught by one of those. Ulti claimed BP, so their options are really Sultan, Death, me (unlikely because of my poor start to the game), or whichever of Wall/Dumey/Ctes/JC are Town (very silly decision because of the need to mislynch one of them). I woulda personally killed Sultan because he's a good player but no shot he gets doctored, and Chris literally confirmed him. Death was probably the second best (or at least safest) scum kill with the info we have, though.

I will also say that if it's necessary to still be paranoid about them, I don't think BCT and Sultan come into today the way they did as Scum (I kinda considered and then discarded the possibility that BCT saw Chris was dying, panicked and went for the hero play to clear himself, but I find that unlikely).

ctesjbuvf posted...

Chris himself went to goddamn sleep right before deadline. If scum thought he was their wincon like is being presented here (which is already super flawed given they amount of people they'd kill him late by principle), and non of his teammates were around, no way Chris doesn't do more. Chris' role isn't even that great tbh.

We can at least safely throw the idea that Chris could be confirmed town with that role straight into the trash can and then empty it.

I think the key thing here is that Chris tried to present Sultan as a lynch and got told very clearly by several people that his logic didn't check out (which, as Han said earlier, shoulda been a big tipoff), then kinda did the same with Han before heading off iirc. I think he knew he wasn't coming across the way he needed to and just decided to take a break and trust Town would end up on a mislynch, likely because none of his scummates were on the chopping block. I agree that no way Chris doesn't do more if one of his scummates is about to die (hence Death being killed there).

I don't think Chris flipping clears Sultan. He knows better than that. Honestly, his case sounding weak makes it more than likely that it was a true case more than anything. Similar to how his weak defense of Death is now known to be true.

I think BCT jumped on Chris to late for it to be alignment indicative.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't think Chris flipping clears Sultan. He knows better than that. Honestly, his case sounding weak makes it more than likely that it was a true case more than anything. Similar to how his weak defense of Death is now known to be true.

I think BCT jumped on Chris to late for it to be alignment indicative.

Hm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you think Chris putting up an attack on Sultan that multiple people didn't quite get makes Sultan more likely to be Scum?

What do you think of Sultan aside from that?

Sheep007 posted...

I agree that no way Chris doesn't do more if one of his scummates is about to die (hence Death being killed there).

That wasn't quite the point I was trying to make, I thought Death looked scum after yesterday lol. Just that Chris would do more if he was a wincon for the scum team like Ulti suggested (which is ridiculous but yeah).

Sheep007 posted...

Hm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you think Chris putting up an attack on Sultan that multiple people didn't quite get makes Sultan more likely to be Scum?

What do you think of Sultan aside from that?

Well. I'd just think Chris pushing a mislynch would have tried to make a better case, but maybe he thought he was making a better case after having been gone for a while. But Sultan was decisive in Chris getting lynched is a good town point for him.

I mean, I voted Sultan yesterday, I thought his push on JC was weak and flawed and Crescent point about how it seemed like he had clearly known the reason for my "list" was good too. I don't think he has engaged with people as much as given credit for either.

I know ulti wants a mass claim but does literally anyone else think thats a good idea for this d2 scenario

One read is ulti is invigorated by the Chris lynch. Another read is scum ulti wasnt expecting to lose Chris d1 and now sees a mass claim as scums best approach to finding and killing town power. Not to mention possibly trying to draw suspicion towards any town who claims in an awkward or unclear manner

FINAL VOTALS
[6] Chris - (Ulti), (Lea), (Sultan), Lea, Ulti, Sultan, Han, Crescent, BCT
[3] Han - (BCT), (Chris), Death, Chris, (Ulti), Sheep
[2] death - JC, (Lea), (Chris), (Han), EDumey, (Lea)
[1] Ulti - (Chris), (BCT), (Sultan), (BCT), Wall, (BCT)
[1] Sultan - ctes, (Chris), (Ulti)
[0] Lea - (Sheep)
[0] JC - (Han), (Ulti), (Sultan)
[0] Sheep - (Chris), (Han), (Lea), (EDumey), (Wallmasterz)
[0] EDumey - (Ulti), (Ulti)
[0] Ctes - (Sultan)
[0] Wall - (BCT), (BCT)
[0] BCT - (Ulti)

Chris pushed a lot of different people, most of them he led the charge against, actually only Death he did not. I'd be surprised if none of them were scum. JC and Dumey ended on the town lynch, Han jumped off of it late but was also practically who sealed the Chris lynch. Would have go back and see the reasoning from everyone.

UltimaterializerX posted...

With your time displacement device in hand if you Hammer the lynch and end the game day early you will earn a Double Vote for the following Day.

Mafia double voter is practically a banned role with how broken it is, because it lets them a) present as confirmed town, and b) win the game a day before theyre supposed to.

I get that its your only line of play if youre scum but make it less obvious if you want to beat my heat check.

I must have forgotten to empty the trash can after throwing that argument away. Fine.

Your point b) is what makes it good yes. If you want to try to play confirmed town with the role, then you can't use it to surprise hammer a day before you're supposed to win. So try imagining that. If Chris claims hammer double voter outright no way he gets to be confirmed town by anyone. Not a chance. He can confirm the ability yes but not the alignment. That goes for any player that could have that role, but Chris literally just returned with his most recent game being one in which he was confirmed town but in reality was SK and already before that half the player list would policy lynch him late game. I know for certain he can not confirm himself town with that role. You know for certain he can not confirm himself town with that role. Hell, Chris knew for certain he could not confirm himself town with that role.

Calling this anywhere near a banned role is blatantly false and I think you are aware.

Let me ask you something, Ulti, since you commented on that.

You, Lea and Han are all likely watcher or doctor targets, and scum just loses if they get caught by one of those. Ulti claimed BP, so their options are really Sultan, Death, me (unlikely because of my poor start to the game), or whichever of Wall/Dumey/Ctes/JC are Town (very silly decision because of the need to mislynch one of them). I woulda personally killed Sultan because he's a good player but no shot he gets doctored, and Chris literally confirmed him. Death was probably the second best (or at least safest) scum kill with the info we have, though.

You said that this reads like scum revealing the plan. I for one think the reasoning here is extremely flawed and find it much more likely Death was not the intended kill. If you try to imagine I'm right about that for a moment, do you think this reads as if Sheep is town trying to make sense of the kill or scum trying to act like it was intentional?

Sheep, similar question. Ulti responded to you guessing about the night kill with the following:

This post is one of those revealing-the-plan that scum likes to make.

If we try to imagine that you were wrong and I'm right that Death was not the intended kill for the purpose of the exercise, what would be more likely. Town Ulti believes you're scum sharing the actual thought process of the team as indicated, or scum Ulti knowing this is not what happened wanting it to not be looked into by making it sound like you're right and getting to attack someone in the same progress?

I guess with the votes on MZero - I don't think I can make any of read of him. IIRC he also replaced out of YGO Mafia as town while having barely participated. I know MZero likes to lurk as scum, but I believe his inactivity when getting replaced means it's NAI and we'll to look at Isquen whenever he manages to catch up.

Looking at the votes on Chris I'd say Creasents look the worst..

She was so confident that Chris was town.

Why would Creasent pile onto the Chris lynch like this? She was vocially against the lynch

Yeah I think it's MZero saw people suspecting him for being inactive and was behind over two topics and just didn't want to catch up.

And if anyone's wondering, I agree with Ctes's read there. Death was a bad kill choice which reads as bus driver correctly misdirecting.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Looking at the votes on Chris I'd say Creasents look the worst..

She was so confident that Chris was town.

Why would Creasent pile onto the Chris lynch like this? She was vocially against the lynch

To save Death seemingly. Did Crescent voice an opinion of Han? She had no vote down prior to that. The votals at the time were 4-3-3 Chris-Death-Han. She voted scum to save town there, we know that for sure. She could have put Han up for a possible tie (BCT would break it with a second to go, but yeah).

At end of day she never really mentioned Han as much as she did death. She thought Death was town to.. so not voting Death makes sense. Ulti and Han were on the table as well.

I'm just confused that she didn't push a different chain as much and just piled onto a lynch she was against

Anyone may join in on my most recent questions for Sheep and Ulti actually.

FINAL VOTALS
[6] Chris - (Ulti), (Lea), (Sultan), Lea, Ulti, Sultan, Han, Crescent, BCT
[3] Han - (BCT), (Chris), Death, Chris, (Ulti), Sheep
[2] death - JC, (Lea), (Chris), (Han), EDumey, (Lea)
[1] Ulti - (Chris), (BCT), (Sultan), (BCT), Wall, (BCT)
[1] Sultan - ctes, (Chris), (Ulti)
[0] Lea - (Sheep)
[0] JC - (Han), (Ulti), (Sultan)
[0] Sheep - (Chris), (Han), (Lea), (EDumey), (Wallmasterz)
[0] EDumey - (Ulti), (Ulti)
[0] Ctes - (Sultan)
[0] Wall - (BCT), (BCT)
[0] BCT - (Ulti)

Actually did she not vote at all until then??

Crescent said she thinks I'm scum always. So either she's Town and stuck to assessing that read as wrong or she's Scum and wanted to not lynch Town over Scum.

It's also worth pointing out that death could have voted Chris too.

Votals:
[2] Isquen - Sheep, Ulti
[0] Ulti - (Sultan)
[0] Sultan - (BCT)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Mental note for Sheep in the scum pile later. This post is one of those revealing-the-plan that scum likes to make.

Sheep I am concerned.

I too am concerned about Sheep. This is concerning scummy behavior. Today, answering crescents question by trying to put it in context of scum motives. Tomorrow corrupting the town youth with harmless offers of cmon, its just one cigarette. Whats next sheep, making a d1 list with thoughts on everyone?

Hey Wall, if you agree with Ulti that it's concerning, then I'd love for you to answer my question for me as well.

The only thing about the vote that looks good is she saved death.

I haven't had much of an issue with her to that point. I am however surprised she had no vote down until eod

If we're piling on Sheep, I'll remind everyone that he gave a very good argument for why me unvoting him yesterday was not Scummy (more NAI) and yet he was voting me saying me unvoting him was Scummy.

BCT's vote also could be considered bad as well to be fair it was the last vote on Chris. But BCT was scrambling and I don't nessisarily blame him. What do you think of his vote on Chris

UltimaterializerX posted...

Andy is about the last guy Id expect to bus the dude.

I was thinking that to but could have technically been coached to do so.

Unless BCT has been great at faking this towny look I don't think it's as bad as it looks on paper

UltimaterializerX posted...

Impressive. Very nice.

Lets see the games youve played where youve been scum with him.

Are you using your experience with scum Chris as to reason as to why Death was killed?

Hmm JC is an interesting one exshpeshally since that is when chris was going after me pretty hard (other than when I just completely fucked up reading and voted ctes)

Maybe a JC iso could be helpful for me.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

BCT's vote also could be considered bad as well to be fair it was the last vote on Chris. But BCT was scrambling and I don't nessisarily blame him. What do you think of his vote on Chris

It would read as him being told to bus Chris, since the lynch would have been seen as inevitable. That would mean other Scum were watching at the same but probably not voting/posting, though.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It would read as him being told to bus Chris, since the lynch would have been seen as inevitable. That would mean other Scum were watching at the same but probably not voting/posting, though.

That crossed my mind too.
Chris very much could have been hey BCT act a little lost then just kill me.

BCT pretty clearly purposely waiting until the literal last second to lynch, whatever you want to make of that.

Well so far this Is easy.

Jc topic 1.

Makes a shit post about missing the shit post fase. Then continues to shit post until he leaves for the topic.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Hey Wall, if you agree with Ulti that it's concerning, then I'd love for you to answer my question for me as well.

No I was being sarcastic and tried making a dumb joke that didnt quite land. I blame the lack of morning coffee ha.

I think sheeps post was harmless (regardless of sheeps alignment) and I dont think its the best use of town resources to spend a lot more time on sheep after he was such a focus d1. In other words sheep shouldnt be viewed as definite town but I think theres bigger fish to fry to start the day. I dont really like ulti being critical of the post by sheep.

Early topic to comes in with a dig at sheep.

Makes his very meh list.
Where he Still still calling Sheep most likely scum.
Also calling ulti super suspicious...
****But votes death

I can't do much rereading today but a quick once-over makes sheep look pretty bad in topic 3, especially in regards to me. Like, dayvig worthy bad, especially after how things laid out.

##Vote: JC


lets start here though.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Early topic to comes in with a dig at sheep.

Makes his very meh list.
Where he Still still calling Sheep most likely scum.
Also calling ulti super suspicious...
****But votes death

"Sheep is the expected Scummate to lose, but let's see if we can turn attention elsewhere"?

Mid topic 2.

Jc defending that his vote on Death is a Soul read. While still making a few digs at sheep. JC also pretty defensive that his List was good. Calls out Ulti for saying it's weak and ulti starting to suspect him a little bit.

Jc saying Mzeros limited stuff looked good.(more than once)

(I'll be fair to the point I did too and even had a small conversation with JC about this)

Why are you ignoring all my questions to you, Ulti?