Board 8 > Which of these (mostly indie) games should I give a second chance to?

(+) Yeah! (+)

As a kid I used to finish EVERY game, like 20 times over. These days I find that I end up bailing on the majority of games I play, to varying degrees. Some are false starts. Some are abandoned halfway or more through. I made a list of a couple dozen games I ought to consider coming back to. So expect to see a part two of this list. The following are all games I started, played for 4+ hours, and just decided for whatever reason not to continue.

Blasphemous (4.4 hrs) - I was on a metroidvania kick around this time last year, and Blasphemous was one of the most touted of the bunch. I felt it played like a really old arcade game in terms of the handling, the art, the dearth of information, and in many cases how punishing it could be. I liked the aesthetic for what it was, but I was not in love with the gameplay.

CrossCode (15.1 hrs) - I had a love-hate experience with CrossCode. It was a much bigger experience than I anticipated, and so I assumed it would move quicker than it did. So credit to the devs for making a massive game. I just got tired of all the puzzles and sidequests requiring me to locate things I could never find, and I never felt like I was actually mastering the combat so much as just scrubbing by. It was definitely a game that was not concerned with whether or not I could find the things it wanted, and I eventually got sick of its shit around the fire temple.

Iconoclasts (8.1 hrs) - Another game from the metroidvania rush. I got stuck about three times, and finally decided on the last time that rather than looking up a guide, I'd just not care. But it was certainly a cute game, even if I really was not clear on what the vision for the story was, what with headhopping into other playable characters and the strange personalities, etc.

Trails of Cold Steel 2 (23.4 hrs) - I played 82 hours of CS1. I got 23 into CS2. If you've played the series, that's probably all I need to say. Alternatively, I could try returning to Ys 2 or Oath in Felghana.

Monster Hunter: World (22.5 hrs) - A friend bought this for me so we could do something together online. It is definitely not my usual style of game, but I feel like by not exploring it deeper, I'm missing out. My friend stopped making himself available, though, and I don't like playing with randumbs, which made this game tougher to experience. If I would return to this, I would be principally playing single player unless someone's offering to join me. And despite over 20 hours in, I never really felt like I had any idea what I was doing.

Omori (10.4 hrs) - Omori was okay. Unorthodox. I've never played or had any interest to play Earthbound. Someone was giving away this game for free around this time last year, and I decided to give it a try. I got stuck at a couple points, but pushed ahead up until I got trapped on the set of some show where I had to do I-don't-even-know-what to move on. I felt like I'd spent long enough in that area already, and the game just stagnated. Especially since I knew I'd just be walking into more psychological junk afterwards, which isn't really my thing. I do kinda wish I knew what happened in the story, though. <cite>azuarc posted [p:969572890] in Which of t... [t:80241766]...</cite> <quote> while I wait for winter sales. (See notes below) Blasphemous CrossCode Iconoclasts LoH: Trails of Cold Steel II Monster Hunter: World Omori Pillars of Eternity Spiritfarer Slay the Spire none of these / other Vote View Results while I wait for winter sales. (See notes below) - Results (105 votes) Blasphemous 8.57% (9 votes) 9 CrossCode 10.48% (11 votes) 11 Iconoclasts 5.71% (6 votes) 6 LoH: Trails of Cold Steel II 16.19% (17 votes) 17 Monster Hunter: World 5.71% (6 votes) 6 Omori 11.43% (12 votes) 12 Pillars of Eternity 3.81% (4 votes) 4 Spiritfarer 5.71% (6 votes) 6 Slay the Spire 20.95% (22 votes) 22 none of these / other 11.43% (12 votes) 12 Show Voting Form function poll_vote() { var vote_option = $("input[name='poll_vote']:checked").val(); if(!vote_option) return; $.ajax({ type: 'POST', url: '/ajax/forum_poll_vote', data: { option: vote_option, board: '8', topic: '80241766', message: '0', key: '35a93129' }, success: function(response) { if(response.error) { alert(response.error); } else { $("#poll_vote").hide(); $("#poll_results").html(response.html).show(); } } }); } function view_results_legacy() { $("#poll_vote").hide(); $("#poll_results").show(); } function hide_results_legacy() { $("#poll_results").hide(); $("#poll_vote").show(); } As a kid I used to finish EVERY game, like 20 times over. These days I find that I end up bailing on the majority of games I play, to varying degrees. Some are false starts. Some are abandoned halfway or more through. I made a list of a couple dozen games I ought to consider coming back to. So expect to see a part two of this list. The following are all games I started, played for 4+ hours, and just decided for whatever reason not to continue. Blasphemous (4.4 hrs) - I was on a metroidvania kick around this time last year, and Blasphemous was one of the most touted of the bunch. I felt it played like a really old arcade game in terms of the handling, the art, the dearth of information, and in many cases how punishing it could be. I liked the aesthetic for what it was, but I was not in love with the gameplay. CrossCode (15.1 hrs) - I had a love-hate experience with CrossCode. It was a much bigger experience than I anticipated, and so I assumed it would move quicker than it did. So credit to the devs for making a massive game. I just got tired of all the puzzles and sidequests requiring me to locate things I could never find, and I never felt like I was actually mastering the combat so much as just scrubbing by. It was definitely a game that was not concerned with whether or not I could find the things it wanted, and I eventually got sick of its shit around the fire temple. Iconoclasts (8.1 hrs) - Another game from the metroidvania rush. I got stuck about three times, and finally decided on the last time that rather than looking up a guide, I'd just not care. But it was certainly a cute game, even if I really was not clear on what the vision for the story was, what with headhopping into other playable characters and the strange personalities, etc. Trails of Cold Steel 2 (23.4 hrs) - I played 82 hours of CS1. I got 23 into CS2. If you've played the series, that's probably all I need to say. Alternatively, I could try returning to Ys 2 or Oath in Felghana. Monster Hunter: World (22.5 hrs) - A friend bought this for me so we could do something together online. It is definitely not my usual style of game, but I feel like by not exploring it deeper, I'm missing out. My friend stopped making himself available, though, and I don't like playing with randumbs, which made this game tougher to experience. If I would return to this, I would be principally playing single player unless someone's offering to join me. And despite over 20 hours in, I never really felt like I had any idea what I was doing. Omori (10.4 hrs) - Omori was okay. Unorthodox. I've never played or had any interest to play Earthbound. Someone was giving away this game for free around this time last year, and I decided to give it a try. I got stuck at a couple points, but pushed ahead up until I got trapped on the set of some show where I had to do I-don't-even-know-what to move on. I felt like I'd spent long enough in that area already, and the game just stagnated. Especially since I knew I'd just be walking into more psychological junk afterwards, which isn't really my thing. I do kinda wish I knew what happened in the story, though.</quote>

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Slay the Spire is the best of those but it doesn't sound like your type of game if you don't like card battlers. Of the other 8 I've only played two: Blasphemous is great and Iconoclasts sucks, so I voted Blasphemous.

From your bigger list, my favorites are Phoenotopia, Hades, and Bastion but you have a lot of winners there.

For starters, if games feel like a chore or you simply aren't having much fun, move on. This is a hobby/recreational activity for us, not a job. Secondly,

azuarc posted...

20XX, Borderlands The Pre-Sequel, Bastion, Baba is You, Axiom Verge, Cat Quest II, Celeste, Chicory, Children of Morta, Cloudbuilt, Death's Door, Dandada, Crystal Project, Dishonored: Death of the Outsider, Dragon's Dogma, Dreamscaper, Fury Unleashed, Gibbous A Cthulhu Adventure, Hatoful Boyfriend, Hades, Griftlands, Grim Dawn, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Into the Breach, It Takes Two, Jotun, Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris, Lost Ark, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Omega Strike, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Outer Wilds, Outer Worlds, Owlboy, Pharaoh: Rebirth, Phoenotopia, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Splasher, Sundered, Trine 2/3/4, West of Loathing, Wargroove, and Urbek City Builder.

those are my picks

KCF0107 posted...

if games feel like a chore or you simply aren't having much fun, move on.

I don't disagree, which is why I have such a long list of incomplete games. It feels bad to think that I've spent money on all of these (or were gifted, or got through a bundle,) and not made full use, but there's certainly no shortage of options, either.

Mostly, I'm looking at games where maybe I missed the boat. I walked away from Hollow Knight at one point, too, and I'm glad I came back to that one.

Life is too short to play games that aren't exciting

Genuinely recommend picking up an additional hobby for the time being

Monster Hunter World is the best game there imo. I agree it's a slow burn. I didn't really get into it until hours after I had beat the game... But once I started to understand it more it hooked me and it ended up becoming one of my favorite games ever.

I don't think there's anything wrong with going through the game solo, but if you need soneone to play with I'd be down. Depends on what platform though.

I really like CrossCode but I was into its puzzles. They only get more complicated as it goes so if you really hate them then... yeah maybe it's not worth hopping back. Or you could take things slower. I was also taken aback at how long it is, and I haven't even played the DLC yet!

I like Spiritfarer but share your complaints with it, I think it goes on too long but there's some really good passenger sequences that are worth seeing.

Slay the Spire is great but if you're not into the cards then that's that. I would suggest you attempt the other characters if you can, they all play very differently and you might find a style that you're into.

As for the others:

• Axiom Verge is a solid metroid-like, not amazing but if that's what you're craving it'll hit the spot.
• Celeste is awesome as a precision platformer with an interesting narrative. It has some optional super tough stuff if that suits you, but the main game isn't too long or taxing.
• Death's Door is one I really really like, it reminds me of Hollow Knight in a weird way. Not for everybody, but I'd give it a go if I were you. Wonderful atmosphere.
• Into the Breach is a very good strategy game with a lot of content (it got a massive update this year), but it's made to be played in short bursts and the loop is addictive.
• Mass Effect: Andromeda is not a great game. If you're really looking for more ME it plays well enough, just don't expect good writing or anything pushing the series forward.
• Outer Wilds is my fav game in the topic, if you're at all interested in it then don't look anything up about it and just give it a go.
• Outer Worlds is a good future Fallout with decent writing but nothing particularly spectacular. I enjoyed my time with it, it's better than ME:A at making a fun space romp.
• Wargroove disappointed me, I'm not sure what it was about it but I could not get into this game the way I did with Advance Wars. I dropped it after a few hours, and that is rare for me!

return to rean
it gets better after act 1 i promise

There's no need to power through a game just for the sake of finishing it. From your other list, I feel like Chicory, Hatoful Boyfriend, and Outer Wilds could pay off if revisited (based on my own assumption that things you like might happen beyond the point where you stopped) but probably only if you genuinely felt like playing them again.

Added caveat: I actually didn't start Chicory or Hatoful Boyfriend, and abandoned Outer Wilds like an hour in myself, haha...

You really buried the lede on this one putting my two favorite games of all time, Outer Wilds and Chicory, in the 'other' section

I'm curious what led you to drop them and I'd really encourage you to un-drop them

As for the others, I mean, I understand your complaints about CrossCode and Spiritfarer so it's kind of hard for me to try to convince you otherwise; I do think CrossCode is really worth it though, for what it's worth I think you are at the slowest part of CrossCode and the game picks up in a big way right after this (although there is still at least one BIG nasty puzzle section remaining in the game, probably two or three)

Oneshot

I really enjoyed Spiritfarer but it feels like you know you dont like it.

Hades though gets better and better as you play

I wasn't in love with CrossCode either, and the puzzles only get more intense as you go. I doubt you'd like it any more if you went back to it. Spiritfarer is also way too long. No reason for that to be a 30+ hour game.

other: La-Mulana

:)

I'm sad you didn't like CrossCode, cause it's my game of all time

I'm a big Trails fan too, though CS2 is seen by many as a nadir of the series (I still liked it), so maybe worth pushing through? CS3 is really really good

CrossCode is an excellent game but it is definitely "a lot"

Paratroopa1 posted...

You really buried the lede on this one putting my two favorite games of all time, Outer Wilds and Chicory, in the 'other' section

I'm curious what led you to drop them and I'd really encourage you to un-drop them

Chicory was a gift that I played on-stream for the person who bought it for me...and then never returned to after my first play session. I got to Dinners and then stopped.

Outer Wilds just felt like I was doing a lot of nothing except running around spaces that were hard to navigate. (Or not-running because the ship was a pain to navigate.)

.

In response to a few other things...

CrossCode was the game that drove me to make this topic. I obviously wouldn't have played 15 hours if I didn't care for it at all, but I think the big problem for me was mostly that they made all these things that were a total PITA to find due to the way the map is set up, and a ton of them aren't very well described. I checked guides several times and just groaned when I saw what I was missing. It's not so much the puzzles as it is the just finding things that require jumping to places you have no idea you can even jump to, or going through downward tunnels you can't see, or...

CS2 - depends on how readily I can pick the game back up. I have a tendency to restart games from the beginning when I return to them, and I don't think I'd want to replay the first 23 hours again. That was too much time to be separated from Laura.

NFUN posted...

Oneshot

Oh, right. I have that on not-Steam. But the problem is that the version I got off itch.io didn't really work. The game generates a file for you that you have to go look at on your HD, and mine never did. I'd have to buy the Steam version if I wanted to play it and get past that.

th3l3fty posted...

other: La-Mulana

No.

azuarc posted...

CrossCode was the game that drove me to make this topic. I obviously wouldn't have played 15 hours if I didn't care for it at all, but I think the big problem for me was mostly that they made all these things that were a total PITA to find due to the way the map is set up, and a ton of them aren't very well described. I checked guides several times and just groaned when I saw what I was missing. It's not so much the puzzles as it is the just finding things that require jumping to places you have no idea you can even jump to, or going through downward tunnels you can't see, or...

crosscode is an absolute frankenstein of a game. i love what it's going for. i dropped out after around 20 hours

i love the dungeons, i love the puzzles, i love the bosses, and i love the mechanics of combat

but the pacing is just so bad!

when i'm in the mood to work on a dungeon? oops, actually i'm required to grind monsters/quests/mats for another couple of hours.
when i'm in a puzzle dungeon and decide i'd rather just grind for a bit? oops, actually i am required to spend another 90 minutes in the dungeon before i'm allowed out
when i like fighting a boss and want to do another one, it's for sure going to be a number of hours before i'm able to

if it's any consolation, if you're at the 15 hour mark i'm guessing you're in the desert, which for me was the absolute most boring segment, even though i didn't give up until a few hours later. i think i saved/quit before a challenging but most likely fair fight, then came back to the game a few weeks later and had forgotten how to play

you really have to want to be immersed and let the game take control to fully enjoy crosscode. it evokes that feeling of being 11, playing an old rpg, and the game feeling overwhelming and massive. except in reality, when we were kids, an overwhelming and massive game wasn't that big. but to recreate that feeling, the game has to be something absolutely monstrous

it's disappointing, because the demo/opening is so snappy. i feel like the devs could have made some small tweaks to put control more in the hands of the players

Crosscode had some really good stuff but yeah it was WAY too long. Also you need to beat the DLC too to get the full story.

Iconoclasts is not good but at least read the plot outline because the ending is silly.

Blasphemous was fine but it starts out very hard and then the difficulty completely drops for some reason. Like I probably died 20 times in the first few hours and then 0 deaths from there until the end of the game.

Celeste is amazing

Baba is You is amazing

Owlboy sucks

Slay the Spire or Celeste

I liked CS2 well enough but there's a high chance you'd end up dropping it again cause you got a long way to go. Also CS3 quite possibly made me drop the series entirely so I can't really recommend going past CS2 anyway >_>

banananor posted...

you really have to want to be immersed and let the game take control to fully enjoy crosscode. it evokes that feeling of being 11, playing an old rpg, and the game feeling overwhelming and massive. except in reality, when we were kids, an overwhelming and massive game wasn't that big. but to recreate that feeling, the game has to be something absolutely monstrous

This is a really cool observation to me. You're right, it DOES successfully evoke that feeling of being young and playing a huge RPG, which is a big reason why I like it so much - but because it's trying to convey that feeling to me as an adult, it has to be bigger and badder than it really has any right to be. In some ways, it's good - it's an RPG that truly challenges me as an adult gamer and makes me feel small, which isn't easy to do. But the result of that is also that the game is sometimes just too much. At the end of the day, I take that trade and I call it one of my fave games of all time, because I'd rather have a game that somehow, by some unholy magic, over-delivers on its promises, but it is a game that's difficult to just relax and enjoy on a casual level; you have to be really immersed in it to make progress. For better or worse, it's rare to see a game like CrossCode that's so demanding.

If you get into the Trails games it opens up a massive series of games that's still ongoing.

Cross code was fantastic for the first 30 hours, then the puzzles just getting longer and more elaborate and overstayed its welcome.

Omori is awesome. Outer wilds is a top 5 game of all time. Deaths door is one of my top games of last year

Oh wait I gave omori to you for free haha. Well Im glad you tried it

azuarc posted...

20XX, Borderlands The Pre-Sequel, Bastion, Baba is You, Axiom Verge, Cat Quest II, Celeste, Chicory, Children of Morta, Cloudbuilt, Death's Door, Dandada, Crystal Project, Dishonored: Death of the Outsider, Dragon's Dogma, Dreamscaper, Fury Unleashed, Gibbous A Cthulhu Adventure, Hatoful Boyfriend, Hades, Griftlands, Grim Dawn, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Into the Breach, It Takes Two, Jotun, Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris, Lost Ark, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Omega Strike, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Outer Wilds, Outer Worlds, Owlboy, Pharaoh: Rebirth, Phoenotopia, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Splasher, Sundered, Trine 2/3/4, West of Loathing, Wargroove, and Urbek City Builder.

i liked all of these

masterplum posted...

Oh wait I gave omori to you for free haha. Well Im glad you tried it

I enjoyed it, but it was very up and down. One minute I'm having a happy, cute adventure, accentuated by the crayon-drawn battle screen. The next I'm in this dark, creepy timeline where <redacted>. And certain parts of each of these worked for me. Knowing it was a gift and not even just someone's extra steam code, I certainly wasn't about to disregard it, but I hit a point where I lost all momentum. Hence, why it's appearing in the poll.

Oh, wow. Slay the Spire's really jumping out in front now. It was basically a tie between that and CrossCode last night. Maybe it's more accurate to say CrossCode has fallen off since Omori and CS2 have caught up.

I want to finish my current game (Asterigos) first, which I thought I would finish last night, but the ending was longer than I anticipated. And I know there's a bunch of secrets and stuff to do still as well. After that, I'll probably attempt...something. There's nothing that says I have to go with the top result from the poll, but there's a decent chance I will, which is currently looking like StS.

Outer Wilds
Hades

it sounds like you're about halfway through Omori... though I think that that particular point is basically just before the actual boss of the area after handling all the other minigames in the castle so I can't think of why you'd be stuck. Though probably about half of the half that's left is real world stuff/abstract Yume Nikki horror walking simulator sequences so if you don't care for that much you probably won't enjoy the rest of the game.

Preferring Monster Train to Slay the Spire is understandable, especially if you aren't particularly into the genre. It's easier and runs are a lot shorter, and you don't have to worry as much each turn about taking damage or even letting units dying since it's just pyre health that carries over. It's a lot easier to grasp strategies and what units can work together and it's like "ok I just need to do 1-2 upgrades to this card to make it awesome, then I'll probably get an event or two that lets me duplicate it to make my deck super awesome", while Slay the Spire would probably require a lot more playtime or outside research to hash everything out and probably require a lot more setup over a longer period of time to get to that point where everything clicks. In 11 hours in Monster Train I've won twice so far (and came close a couple of times) while in 11 hours of Slay the Spire (plus another 6-8 hours on Switch) I've only won once with Ironclad.

Ditch Trails of Cold Steel and play Trails in the Sky instead tbqh

That's probably actually a bad idea but it is true that I think the pre-Cold Steel games are much better than the post-Cold Steel games.

I haven't played most of these but I also liked Outer Wilds quite a bit.

To actually say a bit more about Outer Wilds: if your only complaint is the controls I think that will get better as the game goes on, the game is deliberately set up in a way that navigating isn't always trivial, and I was able to get better at mastering the controls pretty quickly.

That said you also do sort of have to enjoy the core gameplay loop of exploration that the game offers. You'll discover more things as the game goes on obviously but it I wouldn't say it ever changes in a way that's going to win you over if you don't just like the concept itself.

I dunno I got into orbit without my spaceship in like ten minutes and I think I managed to even reach one of the planets like that too. Outer Wilds controls seemed pretty intuitive to me

i may have 500+ hours in kerbal space program

Hades and West of Loathing are pretty neato

I would like to anti-vote Iconoclasts for being so aggressively esoteric and up its own ass that it squandered the potential it otherwise would've had to be a really cool game.

Curiously timely to find this today: https://youtu.be/nkgAlnDIPMU?t=1289

NBIceman posted...

I would like to anti-vote Iconoclasts for being so aggressively esoteric and up its own ass that it squandered the potential it otherwise would've had to be a really cool game.

Honestly I think this is giving it too much credit. It's not well-written enough to even qualify as esoteric.

It's good that everyone hates Iconoclasts because damn that game sucks.

Can't wait until I finally start it after owning it for about four years!

Yeah Iconoclasts is bad. One of those games that got played by critics who never touch anything in the genre who declared it a masterpiece of the genre, unlike all the games they didn't play.

skullbone posted...

It's good that everyone hates Iconoclasts because damn that game sucks.

What's wrong with it

I didn't suggest Slay the Spire because I don't feel like there's really a reason to "go back to it", it's a game that you play for as much as you want to and then you stop, it's not like I'm like "ohh nooo you need to go back and finish it" it's like, play it if you want to, but if you don't want to I don't know what would make me insist otherwise

Give Outer Wilds another shot. It's an investment, but well worth it once you're able to immerse yourself in its stunning, multi-faceted game world. I was inspired to check it out after Epyo's glow-up, and I'm so glad I did.

I'm a weirdo who likes CS2 more than 1, so that one

also Hades

the Iconoclasts enjoyer has logged on.

Iconoclasts is great! the controls are snappy, the art is gorgeous, and there are some cool set piece boss fights. every character is a ridiculous, bloviating ideologue except you, the person who does shit.

it is as esoteric and up its own ass (and personal and maximalist and flawed) as you might expect from one person's 8+ year obsession.

Out of the ones I played...

CrossCode I really liked through the end. Just mainline the story if it's too slow. The level design stays great and the story has a good payoff.

Iconoclasts is totally forgettable. Owlboy too. They're basically the same game, although Owlboy at least has crazy good art.

Slay the Spire is really "good" but it's also too "pure" mechanically. Highly recommend Inscryption for a similar one but with way more charm.

And for your extra list...

Outer Wilds is a must beat. The last hour is definitely worth it.

Baba is You is my fav. Not sure how far you've gone but there's some massive mind blows about halfway through, and it just keeps escalating from there. But if you weren't that into it, it might not make a difference.

Mirror's Edge I kinda want to play through again. It just feels so nice, esp on a widescreen monitor. I thought the story was good too. Definitely missed playing it.

MacArrowny posted...

Yeah Iconoclasts is bad. One of those games that got played by critics who never touch anything in the genre who declared it a masterpiece of the genre, unlike all the games they didn't play.

It's like those Justin's peanut butter cups that look exactly like Reese's and then you take a bite and are like wtf

Oh missed Celeste, that is insanely good and worth playing through the end. I do think it verges on frustrating as it gets more difficult in the later levels and B sides, but some of it's difficulty feels super nice and rewarding, like earlier B sides and chapter 9.

Chicory I liked a lot but I really wish I liked it more with Okami being one of my all-time favs. But it was just a tiny bit too dry in the end. Great design overall, just missing something. I really want a sequel though.

foolm0r0n posted...

esp on a widescreen monitor.

If this should be relevant to anyone else, I play on a 34" ultra-wide.

I like Iconoclasts as well. Sure, the gameplay isn't 10/10 masterful or anything, but it's still fun. There are some great story moments that have really stuck with me over the years. Although if you aren't a fan of depressing, nihilist stuff you might not jive with it.

Blasphemous is incredible. Give yourself an hour to adjust to the controls/difficulty. It's worth it.