Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 13 - The Last Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kirby321 posted...

That... makes zero sense. Hb explicitly said he was gonna Flavor Cop scan Abacus that night.

If anything, I have more incentive to deny that scan ASAP. Why does my flavor or anyone else's flavor matter here? Everybody claimed their Pokmon except you and Chris by that point.

Hb was trying to verify that Abacus was not lying about his flavor. Leaving that ambiguous would've been a surefire way to get Abacus lynched. Not that it mattered in the end, but we started the day considering that Abacus being Wingull doesn't match other Dark Side characters. There was a chance Abacus could have survived that day because his flavor was verified.

While I don't know HB from other than this game, that's not a certainty he would do it. Banking on Abacus falling to PoE that day with the positions everyone else was in that day is hardly any risk.

I thought of this but forgot to answer to it before.

Kirby321 posted...

Really, if anything, you were pushing Abacus the hardest after the rest of us backed off due to Abacus's flavor not lining up with Dark Side characters.

That's simply not true, day was dead, Chris had voted. I tried making sense of how could be scum and put forth my Darthmanitan theory that must I admit I was hoping for more reactings to. Trying to consider if more were needed to be said. Chris was definitely the one most certain about it, I don't think that can be argued against.

And honestly, Star War was a lesson to not try to guess those things, I can't get over that one.

I am collecting as many data points as possible for compare and contrast.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't have anything else to say at this point because now it just feels like we're arguing pointlessly and neither side is going to budge. I reiterate that the explanations that state I am scum are extremely convoluted. I restate that:

1) I saw Ulti visit Chris on N2
2) Isquen redirected me on N4, for whatever reason
3) Doppelganger's niche is resolved by a Town Watcher

These are my main arguments. To resolve all of these facts would require multiple theories and explanations just to get Scum Watcher to fit into this narrative.

Versus, simply: double Godfather.

I rest my case.

With all risks of repeating myself at this point. 1) confirms your role not alignment. We've been over this plenty. 2) is not something we can be sure of and 3) It still doesn't make or break that role.

Okay, I am now starting to realize why nobody likes walls...

Personally, I think I made sound arguments for the most part, and what you may think is scummy will differ from what I think is scummy. But I'll put aside my own ego here.

Instinctively, I would say any of the posts where I mentioned Doppelganger would be suspicious, especially the speculation on how it works with regarding to sending in the night action PMs. But you asked for facts, not theories. Because the main things I could see here are questions of why I'm clinging so much to the Doppelganger role PM (for either alignment the obvious answer is to assert that I'm Watcher) as a sticking point.

Another post is the one where I analyzed all of the nightkills. To put it simply, it's fluff. I didn't intend for it to be fluff, but it is. I gave thoughts and analysis on each night kill to try to make a discernible pattern, but none of them involved Ctes, who I was vocal about being the scum. Instead, I crafted theories that involved Chris, but in the end, I just went with a worthless "nothing conclusive" stance and babbled to fill up space. It was a low-effort post, but I don't think it's the one that looks the worst. The biggest one, by far, is:

Kirby321 posted...

But I am seeing this "alignment switch" nonsense popping up multiple times from Ctes, and I'm seriously tired of it. It's a ridiculous theory that banks on an insane amount of conditionals for it to be true. Look, I know that's hypocritical coming from the resident conspiracy theorist, but there's a limit to how deep the rabbit hole runs just to fit a narrative.

Chris, I understand you don't like my answers. Fine, whatever. I won't claim to be an orator, and my emotionally-driven mindset tends to make my tone swing all over the place. But do you seriously believe that I used to be a townie, did something unknowingly, and woke up as a scum outta nowhere? Do you not think it's telling that you asked Ctes to review all of Day 1 for my interactions with scum, and best he could up with is how it all supports his own crazy theory? It's because it's bogus.

I can't believe you have the gall to say my defenses "take equal or less hand waving as 'two godfathers'" like are you kidding me. Tell me why I saw Ulti visit you and didn't kill him if I were scum. Tell me why that's simpler than Ctes being scanned Godfather. Tell me why Isquen didn't use poison or used a redirect on someone else or didn't use his back-up at all if I were lying about being redirected to JC. Tell me why I, as scum, would target JC despite the two flavor scanners already outing themselves, especially knowing that I claimed Watcher and didn't counter-claimed despite knowing scum had a Doppleganger, even though Sheep was killed for getting counter-claimed by the actual Tracker. Tell me why these theories are simpler to explain than two Godfathers being in the game.

You say you had answers to all of this, and I want to hear them now.

This post is, in hindsight, extremely defensive and aggressive. It has a very clear tone of frustration. There's no reason to get so worked up over the "alignment switch" theory if it's truly as ridiculous as it sounds, right?

This sudden burst of aggressiveness could be telling of a scum who had a plan that is now blowing up in his face. Chris, you know from my night action PMs last game that I usually have a meticulous plan going in to each day. I would also have scummates helping me post-mortem, guiding me on what I should say.

This post was raw, off-the-cuff energy. It's a drastic change from the more calm, confident tones used in any other post of mine when debating with Ctes. It's clear that I was acting on my own here rather than being guided by anyone else, and the frustrations expressed here could come off as "Why is my plan not working?!"

Around this time, Ctes also began digging into Chris. Rather timely that I also directed aggression toward Chris here, no? And my response was very much all about disproving every part of Chris's argument, as if my intents were to possibly make Chris look bad. Playing both sides of the coin, in a sense.

Otherwise, you could really take any post where I'm debating with Ctes. He's not wrong that majority of my arguments have been defenses and asking "Why this?" or "Why that?". To be frank, I've got nothing on Ctes, so defenses are the best thing I have. Proving that I'm the Town Watcher is the best avenue I have, and this is true for either alignment, but clinging to "Ctes is another Godfather" could be perceived as a lazy scum path toward victory.

I don't know what I'd rather be today. The player to feel alright about his idea of the scum (excluding the rush that's always there) but to worry about getting mislynched or the player having to make the decisive vote that if wrong loses town the game. I'd probably be kicking myself more over the latter, but dammit if I'm also already kinda kicking myself in advance for the former. If Chris is actually the scum that Kirby and I share the pain of being tricked today (with most dead players too).

Hm hm hm. It is interesting that Kirby managed to find a post of his own to dissect whereas ctes cited one of mine.

You two are very different until the end, huh.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't know what I'd rather be today. The player to feel alright about his idea of the scum (excluding the rush that's always there) but to worry about getting mislynched or the player having to make the decisive vote that if wrong loses town the game. I'd probably be kicking myself more over the latter, but dammit if I'm also already kinda kicking myself in advance for the former. If Chris is actually the scum that Kirby and I share the pain of being tricked today (with most dead players too).

I would much rather have to defend myself and be more certain of one player. I know how to attack and defend very well and it comes naturally to me. This position is semi-awkward because I tend to feed of feedback off myself and its mostly me being like 'any questions' and you guys being mostly like 'well not really' so I am having to generate litmus tests while I mull it over.

Man I was so distracted by that I was asked to find something scummy about myself that I missed I was asked to find a post about myself. I apologize, let me see once more.

*from myself, dammit

I don't envy your position, Chris, but for what it's worth, I believe Ctes and I both had some small debates with you. They were overshadowed by the ones happening between the two of us, but even if we didn't ask you too many questions, there's that info to look into.

Man reading the day over once within a short time and with few hours left is honestly not helping me collect my thought that are here and there atm.

You can spin in circles forever. I am trying to avoid that by taking things point by point.

I need to run a brief errand, but I'll be back in a little bit.

Yeah, but my head is spinning. I am getting distracted by viewing my own username this much and wondering why I don't spend just a short while thinking of something else given my account is old enough to change it, this is not something I think about when I usually just lurk these boards. I am getting distracted by things like Kirby mentioning scumbuddies helping before and wondering how many people are currently looking at me having this hell of a ride, and I hadn't even noticed what specifically I was asked until I saw Kirby quote himself and got confused.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I am frustrated that I was not more stubborn about my reads. I spent a day saying there was no way both Abacus and MZero were scum, argued for it, continued to try to find other solutions the next day, then ended up taking the simplest solution because it seemed people weren't moving and I felt confident enough we would still be able to win this today. No surprise HB was the killed one now that he can't have his tracks stolen any longer.

I suppose this is initial post of mine isn't very great because obviously I should then have done what I'm saying I didn't and it could seem easy to state when it's too late.

Also for all the time it took, me going back through the first day and finding almost nothing could look lazy, especially since there's nothing in 2 or 3.

It's not like I can't explain these things but they're among my weaker posts, I'd say.

Might be worth taking a brief recess. I was planning on eating a late lunch and taking care of some other stuff while Chris was running his errand.

Okay I am back! Thanks for finding a post of yours ctes

If there was more time left, I'd ask you to do the same, but I'm honestly not sure it's the best use of time right now.

I feel like the one I feel worst about is me completely oopsing a role. I should in theory be above such things so I could see the Wifom argument for it.

Though for myself, I'm not sure what it

*is

Well, as we wait for Chris to say his final thoughts, might as well place our votes down now, seeing as we only have an hour left until the deadline.

##Vote: Ctes

insert scum hammer here

My friends, it's been fun, we're about to reach the final hour. I hope at least one of you is working on something here otherwise this will be a long hour for all of us. I'm not personally really getting anywhere right now, my thoughts are all over the place. I know what I'll vote, probably, but I don't feel great. I'm here to answer questions all hour of you want me to though.

See? You got to make that post.

I mean, if Chris is scum, he's a cruel bastard for not just actually hammering right there and instead letting this drag out for as long as possible lol

Dreams really do come true.

I am thinking while eating some mac and cheese. I don't think it will be hugely beneficial to go over things again, just asking myself a few questions.

Well, there's really no way Chris doesn't hammer if he's scum here is there. That was basically the confirmation needed, yet I'm nervous checking new posts now.

starting to feel a little bit performative here, ctes!

I suppose there's no point risking forgetting then.

##Vote: Kirby

I will still be around.

That's partly the reason I wanted Chris to vote first. If he's scum, he'd be opposed to voting first because he would want to hammer.

... Or, that my original reasoning, before thinking about it again and realizing, no, that's stupid.

I have no hesitation to place my vote down. I've said everything I wanted to say, though if there are any further questions, I'll be around. Just gonna be doing chores for the next hour

Deep breaths in and out.

##vote: Ctes

Questions can be asked post game if they are needed, I suppose.

Okay yeah, this is probably the preferred position to be in, but I'm still very nervous. I suppose this will be an hour of feeling how it would be actually utilize my role. Though today is Pokemon day.

Even with this, I'm still very excited to learn which of it us true. I want my Darthmanitan theory to be true, I'll admit, mostly for bragging rights. If Kirby is scum the whole way that sure is well played, even with all my points about flawed statements today.

STOP STOP STOP

No one post. @HanOfTheNekos wants to post the flip himself before anyone begins to discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHuD5y-PZM0

I have failed you, Kirby. I have failed you! yells Ctes.
In anger, Kirby replies: I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over.
Kirby, Ben is evil!
From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
Then you are lost!

Kirby and Ctes begin to duel, flipping over lava floes and shit, until finally, Ctes has an advantage.

Its over Kirby. I have the high ground!
You underestimate my power!
Dont do it!

Kirby leaps into the air, and Kirby lands behind Ctes, and swings his lightsaber down, being blocked.

When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master.
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful-

And as Ctes gets struck, his body flows into the force.

Ctes has died! He was...

If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

You are Obi-Wan Kenobi, LIGHT SIDE Ghost. One of the best Jedi Masters of the age of the Republic, you were known as a war hero as well as the master to Anakin Skywalker, one of the most powerful Jedi ever. After his turn to the Dark Side, you went into exile, where you focused on learning a technique that Master Yoda learned from your own Master - how to pass into the living Force.

As a Ghost, when you are killed, you will be permitted to continue posting in the game during the day phase, though you will be unable to vote or be targeted by night actions.

(Buzzing sounds)

You are Beedrill, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla. Youre a bee with pokey drill arms. Thats pretty rad.

As a Vanilla, you have no additional abilities.

And just then, Chris drives by.

Yoka to bantha poodoo.

AND I DONT BELIEVE IT! COMING FROM RIGHT BEHIND AND SKIRTING INTO FIRST PLACE IS SEBULBA! SEBULBA HAS CROSSED THE FINISH LINE AND WON THE RACE! THE BOONTA EVE CLASSIC BELONGS TO SEBULBA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAs7Wxvc1_o

Ctes/Kirby is left dumbfounded as Chris is lifted up onto the winners podium, and watch as he releases his Bulbasaur to simultaneously accept the title of Pokemon League Champion.

Kirby has come in second place! He was...

Yippee!

You are Anakin Skywalker, LIGHT SIDE Gladiator. There is so much to say about you, but Ill leave off with this - in Episode 3, there is a point where Anakin asks What do you mean? and I think that just really defines his character in the prequels well. Not really sure of anything. To be honest, aside from the spousal trouble, Anakin was a pretty good guy in the Clone Wars series. But anyway, one of the things Anakin did was fight in the gladiator pit on Geonosis.

As a Gladiator, once per game, during day phase, you can choose one other player and force the days lynch to be between you and them. You do this with the following syntax:
##Gladiate: (target player)
The days lynch will only be between you, them, or No Lynch.
Darmanitan!

You are Darmanitan, LIGHT SIDE Watcher. I dont know a lot about this Pokmon, but people really like it! It has big eyes! And its a fire type.

As a Watcher, once per night, you may target a player of your choice. You will learn the names of any players who target your target that night.

And winning the game, coming in first place, and the only singular winner of the game, is Sir Chris! He was...

Yoka to bantha poodoo.

You are Sebulba, INDEPENDENT Serial Killer. The best racer of the Boonta Eve Classic, you are a Dug who is not afraid to bend the rules in order to win. Youre the Crowd Favorite, and if you can help it, nothing will stop you from winning.

As a Serial Killer, once per night, you are compelled to sabotage a fellow racer, killing them.

Bulba saur!

You are Bulbasaur, INDEPENDENT Leecher. You are Pokemon #1. Perhaps the best of ALL Pokemon. The host certainly thinks so. After all, youre adorable, unique, and demonstrate the trait of evolution so perfectly well.

As a Leecher, once per night, you can use LEECH SEED on a player of your choosing. That player will be LEECHED. If you are to be night-killed, the most recent player you LEECHED (including the night you LEECH someone) will be killed instead. This ability PERSISTS when you are playing as Sebulba! Addendum: If all of the DARK SIDE dies, you will forget Leech Seed and learn Solar Beam, allowing you to night kill. And given that the DARK SIDE is dead, every day is a Sunny Day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rydGsOB7YaI

christopher we were expecting a performance from you at the end.

congrats though i guess

Ha, man upon dying, this was the result I was hoping for. My force ghost will have to tease you every other day for eternity.

I know this is going to be the argument so I will get ahead of it

1. Chris was stupidly lucky
2. Chris played well

Its both of those things

Bulbasaur is the best Pokemon
LD1 - Sheep - Venomoff Gideon, DARK SIDE Tracker/Poisoner
KN1 - IGCD - Charmandalorian, LIGHT SIDE Bodyguard/Vanilla
LD2 - Ben - Professor Snoke, DARK SIDE Neighborizer/Redirector
KN2 - Corrik - Padm Amidalakazam, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Psychic
LD3 - Chang - Ki-Adi Munna, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
KN3 - Masterplum - Surskit Fisto, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
LD4 - Arti - Pokdexter Jettser, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Flavor Cop
KN4 - Death - Mace Windewgong - LIGHT SIDE Cop/Vanilla
LD5 - Isquen - Sheevee - DARK SIDE Godfather Ninja/Backup
KN5 - Sultan - Tentacoola - LIGHT SIDE Prostitute/Vanilla\
LD6 - Chaeix (JC) - Jar Carbink - LIGHT SIDE Hated Townie/Vanilla
KN6 - Ulti - Mewtwo-D2 - LIGHT SIDE Doctor/Doctor
LD7 - Lea - Wobobafett - DARK SIDE Bulletproof/Mirror
KN7 - Red - Girafarigran Dan and the Modal Nodes - LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Dumb Hider
LD8 - MZero - Dittobias Beckett - DARK SIDE Thief/Doppelganger
KN8 - SBell - Star Wartortle - LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
LD9 - ViolentAbacus - X-Wingull - LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
KN9 - Hbthebattle - Ahsoka Tanorith - LIGHT SIDE Tracker/Flavor Cop
LD10 - Ctes - Obi-Wan Kenobeedrill - LIGHT SIDE Ghost/Vanilla
DD10 - Kirby - Darmanakin Skywalker - LIGHT SIDE Gladiator/Watcher

Winning - Sir Chris - Sebulbasaur - INDEPENDENT Serial Killer/Leecher

Both infuriating to read while also a master class

Well done

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/8/7/AAOt6hAADVU7.jpg

In b4 all the salty people that say Chris is lucky etc

#SebulbaSweep

the SK of all time

Oh you have got to be kidding me

Chris was actually a Serial Killer?! What the actual fuck

Holy shit Chris gg

kirby and ctes you were both almost getting there a couple times but just couldn't push through it. i certainly don't envy your positions

Too slow

Was so annoying sitting there in an INFORMED discord chat with people acting like people should have known Chris should be lynched.

No one who wasn't informed would have lynched chris there due to the beyond luck he got by hiding his existence all game by lucking into a full game BP to hide it with.

Is what it is.

It sucked cause i couldn't figure out why chris was protecting lea because there was no way chris was on that scumteam.

Then Lea flipped and I knew I was dead and it was too late.

Dead Town Chat
https://discord.gg/b77sDtEX

Scum Chat
https://discord.gg/DD9F484W

Neighbor Chat
https://discord.gg/QYfjzgwa

Kirby, Ctes, both of you played so well. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. This puzzle was configured in such a way to absolutely give you no real chance on this final day. You were denied so much information by me and by my strategy this game. Dont let anyone say a single bad word against you. I was prepared to play this final day differently depending on how you guys played. This was almost unwinnable for you. You both did great. Just fantastic. Neither one of you deserve to lose this. Well played.

masterplum posted...

I know this is going to be the argument so I will get ahead of it

1. Chris was stupidly lucky
2. Chris played well
Its both of those things

Oh yeah. You got to get lucky to win as serial killer. Like, I was super lucky.

I wanted to win with town for the first three days and then I decided to try to figure out a way to win. I did it whoo