Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 387: **** it, Mask Off

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't think SephG actually believed any of that. Like most Republicans, he just says what he believes will further his agenda. Predictions like that are meant to convince swing voters to not worry and stay home.

While Im thinking on the subject of things that aged poorly

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/03/dont-tell-ruth-ginsburg-to-retire/284479/

Tony caught a lot of shit after her passing due to his mere suggestion she could have done more.

Takes that aged well tbh. If you care more about the dead's feelings more than future harm, .. eek

It's easy to sit here today and scream into a void, but Tony saw this coming miles and miles away. But even on board 8 that's fairly on the left overall a lot of people were offended. I remember Tony.

not how i remember that conversation going

xp1337 posted...

not how i remember that conversation going

How do you remember it going

DoomTheGyarados posted...

How do you remember it going

I have no idea why you want to relitigate personal drama here but the reason he "caught a lot of shit" was posting a tweet of her officiating a wedding with the unsaid implication that her doing something like that during the pandemic was reckless. Or, given that this was like inside an hour of the news of her death breaking, somehow related despite COVID not being the cause of death. Which, again, given this was in the midst of the news breaking and everyone reacting in basically real-time mixed very poorly with raw emotions.

It wasn't some nuanced take about lifetime appointments and how that's actually pretty fucked up and no other major democracy does something like that because it's really a very poor idea.

And the idea that RBG's death was the moment we could see this coming from "miles away" is laughable. That was 2016. We said Roe was on the ballot and spoilers it was.

Life is nothing but drama, it just depends on which stage you play on. Or some such.

Anyway Tony isn't always the best at framing what he is saying, we all know that, but I personally think that day was a microcosm of the failures politically of many people on this board and broadly the public in general when it comes to perspective.

You are of course free to disagree. But talking about that is going to change the future as much as talking about meaningful reform to our highest court. Not at all, of course.

Our country sucks lol. It's depressing and defeating and it is hard to be serious and outraged all the time. It hurts. It is a dagger to my heart and mind and I wish as smart as I am I could help.

I feel all I could ever hope to do is press my hands into the ever gushing wound that is the cooling corpse of a democratic America and watch as my hands stain with more and more blood.

So instead I keep it light. Because otherwise I see only darkness.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Anyway Tony isn't always the best at framing what he is saying, we all know that,

lol wut? i just looked up what happened in my archive and xp is 100% correct. tony was talking about RBG being careless during the pandemic, it had literally nothing to do with "doing more to prevent this from happening." this wasn't a case of "tony had a point, he just framed it poorly," he outright didn't say what you claim he said.

And I thought people defending Gabbard, Greenwald, and the idea that Roe wasn't hanging in the balance in 2016 exposed flaws in the political thinking of some of the people in this topic series and tried to convince them otherwise.

Not much I can do to affect things because I am a worthless waste of a person but the few things I can do, as meaningless as they probably are and have proven to have been is to try to keep informed, try to highlight things I feel are worth notice to the few people I can reach, and argue the case as I see it.

I have to step back more frequently these days because honestly it's dark as hell and I see myself with less and less good answers but I don't want to give up trying as long as I still can, even if it's meaningless.

I could be mistaken but I remember Tony making the point of her stepping down a lot around that time but I confess I don't go to the archives to do research on these issues so it is entirely possible I have mixed up two different conversations. Sorry if that's the case everyone.

I mean, I am getting old the brain isn't as fresh as it used to be

It's possible the conversation got there at some point, but if it did the conversation had been poisoned by the way it started. I can't even categorically say I wouldn't or even didn't give a soft defense of RBG in the heat of that moment because I remember being pretty upset with how that whole exchange was going as I read it.

With a clear head I can say that RBG should definitely have stepped down in 2014 while the Senate was still Dem-controlled and seeing the writing on the wall for the midterms. I think it's fucked up that she'd have to make that choice but that's a result of how trash the institution of the Supreme Court is with lifetime appointments basically turning it into a lottery over literal life and death.

Anyway let's focus on the villains. Christians who have clearly not actually understood any teachings of Christ. Come on guys

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Anyway let's focus on the villains. Christians who have clearly not actually understood any teachings of Christ. Come on guys

in fairness, jesus did say that if you didn't hate your mother, wife and sisters, you couldn't be his disciple (luke 14:26)

Mr Lasastryke posted...

in fairness, jesus did say that if you didn't hate your mother, wife and sisters, you couldn't be his disciple (luke 14:26)

Tbf that's only half of it still!

Well. If democrats lose in November after this I don't know what will make them win

Feeling kinda awkward to wake up to this lol, but the entire reason it was bad for her to basically not be in a bubble until the election was so she wasnt replaced by Trumpfor reasons like this.

Shout out to Rock for using it as a flimsy excuse to block me months later though.

Oh also, if Breyer doesnt retire before the end of the year

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Oh also, if Breyer doesnt retire before the end of the year

Breyer's replacement has already been confirmed. Kentaji Brown Jackson will join the court in June or July.

honestly Im surprised Alito/Thomas didnt go full cutthroat and retire before Trumps term ended so they could get two more young Trump appointees

it seems like were mostly done pretending theres some legitimacy to the whole thing, they should have just let Trump appoint that Maga teen who sued CNN and the gun girl who shit herself so theyd own the seats for the next sixty years

MoogleKupo141 posted...

honestly Im surprised Alito/Thomas didnt go full cutthroat and retire before Trumps term ended so they could get two more young Trump appointees

Both of them are barely over 70. They've got another good 8 years, during which time there'll almost certainly be another Republican President given how American politics works. At which point they will certainly retire.

Also, they were poised to steal the election but Trump fucked it up badly. We're lucky he's so grossly incompetent.

Dancedreamer posted...

Breyer's replacement has already been confirmed. Kentaji Brown Jackson will join the court in June or July.

lmao epic level brainfart

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1521483966498418691?t=0GHVSkltDfgtelKvyyTLhg&s=19

"Well we talked to them about it and said not to do it but vote I guess"

All those words when he basically just texted:

What power does Biden himself have to counteract this? I legitimately don't know what exactly would be in his purview.

this country is fucking mental bro

the same ppl who are like "deleting student loan debt is too radical" will turn around and use christianity to overturn a supreme court case

conservatives are also so fucking mentally defective

they start gunning for roe v wade and have now turned a straight up IMPOSSIBLE democrat victory in the mid-terms and next pres election into something they'll have to fight for because now "It's on the ballet"

i literally do not know how anyone among either political party remembers to breathe, because their brains are all just an endless stream of dialtone

instead of ceding abortion rights as a lost issue, because it is one, and focusing on stuff that's actually winnable, conservatives would rather die on this hill

trying to overturn roe v wade will galvanize liberals more than anything actual liberals have done in the past 12 years lmfaoooo you cannot make it up

I doubt this really helps Democrats much in this year's elections. Most people don't want Roe overturned, but abortion really isn't a high-priority issue for them. This is going to end being just another stupid thing the government does that people don't like but also don't care enough to fix.

ExThaNemesis posted...

instead of ceding abortion rights as a lost issue, because it is one

Apparently not

Isn't overturning Roe v. Wade such an unpopular decision? Like 30% support overall in all 50 states or some ridiculous number?

Xeybozn posted...

I doubt this really helps Democrats much in this year's elections. Most people don't want Roe overturned, but abortion really isn't a high-priority issue for them. This is going to end being just another stupid thing the government does that people don't like but also don't care enough to fix.

Also this is much closer to the truth than the notion that overturning Roe v Wade will matter. I actually don't like this timing - it's too far away from the elections to have an effect on peoples' goldfish brains

Suprak the Stud posted...

What power does Biden himself have to counteract this? I legitimately don't know what exactly would be in his purview.

I mean they can codify Roe into law now if they whip the Senate. It was one of Biden's campaign promises, they tried it, and it was fillibustered, so you have to remove that. I know people think Manchin and Sinema are immovable objects and that may very well be true, but this is basically a "break out the big guns or die trying" moment.

Impeaching a Justice is also an option. Like Trump it is unlikely to result in removal but some of them might care a bit more about stains on their legacy, so investigating them might hold more weight. Thomas in particular has been involved in scandals for a few months and has basically been let off the hook (though, Thomas REALLY wants to delete Roe, he's unlikely to change his mind but should be bullied regardless).

Unofficially? Probably a lot of room for shady backroom shit and I think everyone should be well past abiding by the rules since the problem has been the people who selectively interpret them.

Edit: In case it isn't totally clear here, this isn't going to stop at Roe either, so I think what is most grating about Biden's statement is the complete lack of urgency and grasp on the gravity of the situation

i feel like over-turning roe v. wade isn't a huge issue for anyone but the brain-worm devout christian subset of troglodytes but I guess I could be out of touch

at some point people just don't really mind leopards eating peoples faces

KamikazePotato posted...

Also this is much closer to the truth than the notion that overturning Roe v Wade will matter. I actually don't like this timing - it's too far away from the elections to have an effect on peoples' goldfish brains

The actual decision still has to come in the summer, doesn't it? I'm not sure the timing is an issue.

The issue is the left doesn't get galvanized over anything that isn't voting against Trump.

HashtagSEP posted...

The issue is the left doesn't get galvanized over anything that isn't voting against Trump.

The left does. But Democrats don't. And therein is the problem. Not all Democrats are left. We have a coalition of necessity because the right will vote for ANYONE as long as they believe in the core tenants of the Republican party. (Which is mainly making Democrats mad. No matter how milquetoast of a moderate a Democrat is, they will inevitably be called a left-wing radical socialist because that's how they play the game. Then they'll accuse us of doing the same because projection is the only thing in their wheelhouse.)

You have Dems who believe Healthcare is a universal right, and we should have universal healthcare. And then you have dems who believe we just need medicare for some... as long as it's not too expensive and doesn't interfere with their own healthcare. And of course, everyone in between those two positions.

The Democrats are the defacto centrist party because centrists tend to align themselves with the Republican party, and there's enough of them in the right places to basically rig the government against us unless we cater to their whims.

Suprak the Stud posted...

What power does Biden himself have to counteract this? I legitimately don't know what exactly would be in his purview.

A lot, but all of it would trigger a constitutional convention or worse.

Dancedreamer posted...

The left does. But Democrats don't.

Im honestly not even sure this is accurate, as a big problem is that the 60+ crowd turns out to vote in droves, while younger people are almost consistently turning out in depressingly low numbers, especially for non-presidential elections.

Younger people have probably lost all hope in the country and everything they see everywhere online makes them feel like their vote/voice doesnt count anyways since rich politicians can ignore/overthrow anything they feel like anyways

HashtagSEP posted...

Im honestly not even sure this is accurate, as a big problem is that the 60+ crowd turns out to vote in droves, while younger people are almost consistently turning out in depressingly low numbers, especially for non-presidential elections.

It's like they have jobs on Tuesdays or something.

swordz9 posted...

Younger people have probably lost all hope in the country and everything they see everywhere online makes them feel like their vote/voice doesnt count anyways since rich politicians can ignore/overthrow anything they feel like anyways

especially when the one politician they've liked in their lifeline got absolutely railroaded by his party twice during the primaries

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1521515442262708226?s=21&t=b7etfiUOkTVjSiZrLRerDg

Uhhhh

Thats not an acceptable answer

swordz9 posted...

Younger people have probably lost all hope in the country and everything they see everywhere online makes them feel like their vote/voice doesnt count anyways since rich politicians can ignore/overthrow anything they feel like anyways

I actually think its the exact opposite and young people feel more empowered than ever.

People really do not have a good sense of scale time wise. 18 year olds couldn't vote till 1971

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1521515442262708226?s=21&t=b7etfiUOkTVjSiZrLRerDg

Uhhhh

Thats not an acceptable answer

I mean doing away with the filibuster is not something Biden is going to announce as a policy off the cuff. What the hell did you expect him to say?

Something that is going to make me think he genuinely cares and is willing to put his Presidency and reputation on the line to fight for

Jakyl25 posted...

Something that is going to make me think he genuinely cares and is willing to put his Presidency and reputation on the line to fight for

This isn't the issue he's going to put his presidency on the line for.

Jakyl25 posted...

Something that is going to make me think he genuinely cares and is willing to put his Presidency and reputation on the line to fight for

i mean, it's biden

expecting this from him isn't too realistic

masterplum posted...

I actually think its the exact opposite and young people feel more empowered than ever.

People really do not have a good sense of scale time wise. 18 year olds couldn't vote till 1971

I don't see how this is relevant to modern political outcomes which is the point. We've lived without that barrier our whole lives, it does not nullify other barriers. This is just the "modern times are best times" goalpost moving argument.

Millennials had to live through the disappointment of the Obama years and zoomers have a similar situation going on with Trump era and the Biden admin's current floundering. What exactly is there to find empowering about that?

Jakyl25 posted...

Something that is going to make me think he genuinely cares and is willing to put his Presidency and reputation on the line to fight for

I mean its shocking how few people care, or only pretend to care. This might surprise you, but there were left voters in swing states in 2016 that either didn't vote or voted third party when they were explicitly told abortion rights were on the line. And now they're coming out and yelling at democrats for not doing enough to fix the mistake that they themselves are responsible for. And you just want to yell at them THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT WE TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN but they're too busy frantically searching for someone else to blame to listen.

I assume most of these people didn't actually care, but who knows.

This isn't going to change the results of the midterm elections either. Conservatives have been working toward this for 50 years, with tremendous amounts of frustration over how little progress was shown for decades. Now it will be shown that the party strategy has worked.

I think Democrats will probably be okay if Trump is the Republican nominee in 2024 but without Trump, they really need to jettison the rich liberal wing of the party to succeed electorally.