Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 387: **** it, Mask Off

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well except Disney was donating to all these people just a year ago knowing what they were standing for. Thats the reason their employees were leaving and protesting. I mean I guess good for them for at least bowing to pressure, but it isnt like they are completely clear here.

LordoftheMorons posted...

How is there not a chilling effect if the revocation is clearly connected to the speech? Like, they're even explicitly saying that's why they'd be doing it!

Because no one except Disney can have their speech deterred (assuming they are the only one who has been granted lots of special privileges).

I don't think what Disney deserves or doesn't deserve is the best frame in which to be viewing this. The much more important thing imo is which incentives the FL GOP are trying to create (i.e. "go back to silently supporting us financially and stop making even minor acknowledgements that LGBT people are also human beings or we will punish you")

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Special privileges like saying gay people are ok to acknowledge? Idgi

That's a general right, not a special privilege.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Well except Disney was donating to all these people just a year ago knowing what they were standing for. Thats the reason their employees were leaving and protesting. I mean I guess good for them for at least bowing to pressure, but it isnt like they are completely clear here.

the "fight" going on now is Republicans calling us groomers. there's no ambiguity here, they outright "the baddies" here

yeah Disney were funding that shit before we called them out, but now caving to our pressure is what this is about, to weaken LGBT protests.

I dont think thats wrong at all and I understand why youd view Disney as the better option here.

But Im just not going to celebrate them for doing the absolute bear minimum in a situation they helped create by funneling an insane amount of money into Republican coffers. So for them to be like were helping! now rings hollow, to me at least. Im not going to tell anyone theyre wrong for believing otherwise though.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Well except Disney was donating to all these people just a year ago knowing what they were standing for. Thats the reason their employees were leaving and protesting. I mean I guess good for them for at least bowing to pressure, but it isnt like they are completely clear here.

Disney funds all politicians because capitalism, and as a mega corp they suck shit, but the backlash from the GOP is for doing a thing thats worth doing tbh.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I don't think what Disney deserves or doesn't deserve is the best frame in which to be viewing this. The much more important thing imo is which incentives the FL GOP are trying to create (i.e. "go back to silently supporting us financially and stop making even minor acknowledgements that LGBT people are also human beings or we will punish you")

Yes, that is a bad incentive. Seems like the best result is Disney calls their bluff. Otherwise I suppose they might think they can create a 2-tiered system where you get access to the better tier of privileges based on politics.

Yep, and thats totally fair too. Im not trying to both sides this in any way so sorry if I came off flippant.

To me, Disney isnt the other side to Republicans though and Im not going to view them as an ally.

You don't have to "celebrate" Disney to understand that we're the ones in the actual crossfire here.

I sure as shit ain't calling Disney a champion for progressive causes or anything, but listening to LGBT backlash is the morally correct position here that I will absolutely push for. That's what the fight is entirely about, so yes they are in the right in this instance.

Yep, totally fair again, from both you and Tony. No disagreement on either of those points.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Special privileges like saying gay people are ok to acknowledge? Idgi

That's not what they are losing. It's their special district that is going away.

Not being bigots is just the reason it's happening.

Maniac64 posted...

That's not what they are losing. It's their special district that is going away.

Not being bigots is just the reason it's happening.

tbf to Suprak's point it's not necessary that they aren't being bigots, but that it's in Disney's best interest not to fund bigots (when attention is drawn to it) which Republicans are mad about.

The sad thing is if they had left Disney alone the company would have probably kept funding them.

Now they might turn all that money against them. And make a bunch of ads about how Rs raised Floridians taxes now that they have to pay for all the services in the formerly special district. And they did it just cause they were mad.

Disney was in the process of importing a lot of jobs into Florida. Will see if there is any backlash at some point.

Yeah, really not been happy with Disney lately, and losing their special district would be pretty devastating for them.

Popcorn over this

And a corporation having its own district so it can govern itself as a local government is completely unacceptable. I didn't know we had such a thing in the US.

yeah if DeSantis didn't huff up a storm about this, Disney could and would have just quietly went on back to business as usual after this bill blows over

... DeSantis however understands that a huge culture war spectacle is just as good and more personally promoting than their donations would've been anyways. Dude's absolutely gunning for the presidency.

Best case scenario is Disney doesn't get their status back and turns all of their political capital and funds against the Republicans, flipping Florida Blue.

red sox 777 posted...

And a corporation having its own district so it can govern itself as a local government is completely unacceptable. I didn't know we had such a thing in the US.

It literally funds the entire state.

Maniac64 posted...

Best case scenario is Disney doesn't get their status back and turns all of their political capital and funds against the Republicans, flipping Florida Blue.

It doesn't work that way anymore. You can throw all the money in the world at an election, it won't move it. Just ask Jeb who spent $5,000 for every vote he got in Iowa!

red sox 777 posted...

It doesn't work that way anymore. You can throw all the money in the world at an election, it won't move it. Just ask Jeb who spent $5,000 for every vote he got in Iowa!

That's.... not true at all. Especially in local elections. Michael Bloomberg got 7% of the democrat primary votes without even being a democrat by throwing money around

masterplum posted...

That's.... not true at all. Especially in local elections. Michael Bloomberg got 7% of the democrat primary votes without even being a democrat by throwing money around

He spent a fortune on that election and got soundly crushed.

red sox 777 posted...

It doesn't work that way anymore. You can throw all the money in the world at an election, it won't move it. Just ask Jeb who spent $5,000 for every vote he got in Iowa!

Disney knows how to win over public sentiment more than Jeb does. And DeSantis just raised everyone's taxes on a grudge.

Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/snopes/status/1516140778682204166?t=JAOHOmcAYZyFqWMgULkJiw&s=19

https://twitter.com/SNICKERS/status/1516463576143257603

red sox 777 posted...

And a corporation having its own district so it can govern itself as a local government is completely unacceptable. I didn't know we had such a thing in the US.

I'm not sure how this ever came about in the first place.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/20/disney-desantis-special-tax-district-00026672

So it likely isn't a permanent move anyways.

GuessMyUserName posted...

https://twitter.com/SNICKERS/status/1516463576143257603

We are truly in the worst timeline

I mean, DeSantis talked about going after their special district in The Villages... which is also a special district.

But that one is okay because it's controlled by Republican real estate developers and is a retirement area that votes GOP 2-to-1. Seriously, Florida has a few of these, it's not just Disney.

Hell, that they're "mad" at Disney in the first place is kind of batshit considering Disney was donating to them and all they did was make tepid PR statements (that were roundly criticized both by the public and internally by employees)

Disney is 100% the "good guy" in this situation simply because the GOP really is that bad. There might not be many fights Disney could wind up in where that's true but they found themselves in one of them!

xp1337 posted...

I mean, DeSantis talked about going after their special district in The Villages... which is also a special district.

But that one is okay because it's controlled by Republican real estate developers and is a retirement area that votes GOP 2-to-1. Seriously, Florida has a few of these, it's not just Disney.

Hell, that they're "mad" at Disney in the first place is kind of batshit considering Disney was donating to them and all they did was make tepid PR statements (that were roundly criticized both by the public and internally by employees)

Disney is 100% the "good guy" in this situation simply because the GOP really is that bad. There might not be many fights Disney could wind up in where that's true but they found themselves in one of them!

Its not just the Disney special district. It is every special district made prior to a certain date.

Edit: which is apparently 5.

Reedy Creek Improvement District, Bradford County Development Authority, Sunshine Water Control District in Broward County, Eastpoint Water and Sewer District in Franklin County, and the Hamilton County Development Authority.

That said, this just sunsets them and they have to apply for a new special district. Obviously if this were a net loss for the taxpayer, the companies would gladly just let it go away and get the cost savings. However, this is just likely a bite less threat and will result with DeSantis saying he went after Disney, and Disney just reupping their deal prior to the sunset.

what a coincidence that of the hundreds of special districts florida has they picked a date that would somehow miss almost every single one (including the aforementioned The Villages) and basically only hit disney

it's almost like they picked the year right after disney's one and said everything before that should go

xp1337 posted...

what a coincidence that of the hundreds of special districts florida has they picked a date that would somehow miss almost every single one (including the aforementioned The Villages) and basically only hit disney

it's almost like they picked the year right after disney's one and said everything before that should go

Duh

Anyway, not to switch topics again but here's a long article on where the right may be heading and while I think most of us realize it already, this gives a more in-depth look at a lot of the people inside it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets

Some excerpts:

Vanity Fair reports...

And the way conservatives can actually win in America, he has argued, is for a Caesar-like figure to take power from this devolved oligarchy and replace it with a monarchical regime run like a start-up. As early as 2012, he proposed the acronym RAGE -- Retire All Government Employees -- as a shorthand for a first step of an overthrow of the American "regime." What we needed, Yarvin thought, was a "national CEO, [or] what's called a dictator." Yarvin now shies away from the word dictator and seems to be trying to promote a friendlier face of authoritarianism as the solution to our political warfare: "If you're going to have a monarchy, it has to be a monarchy of everyone," he said.

People at the conference seemed excited about being in a place where they weren't alone. I skipped most of the talks -- which ranged from sessions about confronting the threat of China to the liberal influence on pop culture to "Worker Power." Hawley gave a keynote on the "assault on the masculine virtues," and Cruz offered up a traditional stump speech, evoking Reagan and saying he thought conservatives would soon prevail at the ballot box. "I'm pretty sure a lot of the 20-somethings rolled their eyes at that," Yarvin said to me afterwards with a smirk. The 20-somethings had a bigger vision.

"What this is," she said, "is a new thought movement. So it's very hard to put your finger on and articulate what it is outside of Trumpism. Because it really is separate from the man himself, it has nothing to do with that."

"I think Trump is going to run again in 2024," [Vance] said. "I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people."

"And when the courts stop you," he went on, "stand before the country, and say--" he quoted Andrew Jackson, giving a challenge to the entire constitutional order -- "the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it."

This is a description, essentially, of a coup.

"We are in a late republican period," Vance said later, evoking the common New Right view of America awaiting its Caesar. "If we're going to push back against it, we're going to have to get pretty wild, and pretty far out there, and go in directions that a lot of conservatives right now are uncomfortable with."

I'd asked Vance to tell me, on the record, what he'd like liberal Americans who thought that what he was proposing was a fascist takeover of America to understand.

He spoke earnestly. "I think the cultural world you operate in is incredibly biased," he said -- against his movement and "the leaders of it, like me in particular." He encouraged me to resist this tendency, which he thought was the product of a media machine leading us towards a soulless dystopia that none of us want to live in. "That impulse," he said, "is fundamentally in service of something that is far worse than anything, in your wildest nightmares, than what you see here."

And if democrats try to communicate that to voters, centrists are just going to roll their eyes at how silly the hyperbole is. I love it here.

Peace___Frog posted...

And if democrats try to communicate that to voters, centrists are just going to roll their eyes at how silly the hyperbole is. I love it here.

Not just centrists, but people on the Left who don't believe politicians actually DO anything also don't believe it.

That's why I think Joe needs to just start slinging executive orders left and right. Legalize weed. Make gay marriage more legal. Fuck it, revitalize the rail system (Joe's a big fan of trains, surprised he hasn't done this tbh).

No matter what Democrats do, Republicans are going to treat them like Communist and slowly inch towards literally exterminating people who disagree with them.

So in order to get the unenthusiastic to care, you need to prove to them that elected officials actual DO do things.

Also, Chapo had a great ep with Dave Weigel that I thinks worth a listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpOPX9awFDk

That article is extremely good and the whole thing is worth reading.

I really get a sense of how the "dirtbag" or "anti-woke" left makes the leap to conservatism from the bit about the Red Scare podcast. And I don't mean this in a dipshit horseshoe theory way. It's simply that there's a core set of anxieties that many people share and the New Right is adept at latching on to those and warping them into conservatism, more than the left can. We have to be able to build that coalition faster and better. If the left can't do that, then political hardball if needed because that's what the New Right is prepared to do. There is simply no other way around it.

For the sake of democracy I really do hope this trend in American conservatism is limited to this group of assholes in Manhattan and the Extremely Online but well. It's been trending that way for a while and given how other fringe reactionary groups went mainstream I think it's a likely outcome.

The Red Scare girls have always been extremely trad, even when they were their commie-est. I dont think you can draw so broad of a comparison between them and other Dirtbag leftists tbh.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The Red Scare girls have always been extremely trad, even when they were their commie-est. I dont think you can draw so broad of a comparison between them and other Dirtbag leftists tbh.

Sure, I don't necessarily mean to paint the "dirtbags" with the same brush but it's a broad group. Is it more fair to say the group is defined more by edgy anti-establishment ironyposting more than actual ideology? And that's how the leap occurs.

Like the Chapo guys, I don't know too much about em but despite getting lumped in with dirtbags and their occasional weird take they strike me as having too firm an ideological grounding to buy into the New Right schtick. But they attract a wider range of people. And there's overlap with less responsible Posters in that area.

In the interest of dirtbag solidarity I did listen to the Chapo episode and in the wake of that VF article it's pretty funny how the hosts thought JD Vance was like...a secret liberal or something which explains him being good at owning the libs. Which was not my impression of what Hillbilly Elegy was about but it's probably one hell of a political Rorschach test.

Ultimately I think it's unimportant if Vance is a true believer or is just talking shit in a post-Trump world where conservatives make up insane shit to "own the libs" and then just do it anyways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/us/politics/trump-mitch-mcconnell-kevin-mccarthy.html

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1517313157362036736

NYT reported that McCarthy recommended to Trump that he resign in the aftermath of January 6. McCarthy denied it and claimed the reporting was totally false.

but there's a tape. and it was promptly released after his denial.

NYT goes further (and there seem to be more tapes) that McCarthy raised 25th Amendment possibilities before concluding it wasn't a viable option, that he wished Twitter/Facebook/etc. would permanently ban other congresspeople like Boebert.

They also tell a similar story with McConnell - that he also inquired about whether the cabinet might really back a 25th Amendment invocation, that McConnell thought Trump would be convicted in a bipartisan manner in the Senate but of course both McCarthy and McConnell retreated and became sycophants again by the time the votes actually happened.

profiles in courage

I thought for a second in the few days after January 6 that McConnell might take the opportunity to push Trump off the ledge (and I'm not surprised at all that he really was considering it), but of course the modern GOP would never do anything good even out of self-interest

McCarthy's the one who's probably fucked here; Trump already hated McConnell, but after this I'm sure Trump will see McCarthy as a traitor and want him purged (regardless of the fact that he ended up doing Trump's bidding at every opportunity)

Depends on how you're defining self-interest, it's basically a risky move to reassert control over the party vs continuing to ride Trump's coattails. In hindsight, the latter looks like it's shaping up to have been a safe bet.

I am surprised not really that this was on the table but at the degree of opposition and frustration they show about it. But yeah these establiahment types are gonna get purged and replaced with the far-right if the Trump influence stays and then we're fucked.

Florida released examples of CRT in math books

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-gives-examples-after-math-books-rejected-for-crt-other-issues/2742102/

Obviously they picked the most egregious example, but Im kind of shocked there actually was CRT in a math textbook and they werent making it up.

Here's some more "examples"

https://popular.info/p/inside-the-dangerous-math-textbooks?s=w

There is no way to slice this other than conservatives banning books they don't like while giving a purposefully nebulous reason

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Here's some more "examples"

https://popular.info/p/inside-the-dangerous-math-textbooks?s=w

There is no way to slice this other than conservatives banning books they don't like while giving a purposefully nebulous reason

I mean that article is conjecture. The article I posted is actual state examples

I think the biggest indictment is they started with math of all things. You would think if they actually were worried about it they wouldn't punt social studies to next year

I mean the bigger indictment is that mentioning people took a poll on racism, or that empathy is a concept, is also not "critical race theory."

masterplum posted...

You would think if they actually were worried about it they wouldn't punt social studies to next year

Maybe they put social studies off because they know there aren't any current textbooks that meet their standards? It's going to take some time to make new books for that.

masterplum posted...

I think the biggest indictment is they started with math of all things. You would think if they actually were worried about it they wouldn't punt social studies to next year

Based on their view, this would likely be a more "legitimate" study for social studies. The point with math is that it's injecting politics into a subject that is theoretically unrelated.

It's still ridiculous obviously.

https://twitter.com/shut_downamazon/status/1517511254126043136?s=21&t=AeR1WtjQyD_cd8XzKbVRUQ

Lets goo