Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 387: **** it, Mask Off

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

You guys want the moral high ground or do you want Republicans to not win in November?

Who the fuck is talking about moral high ground? It's all about practical effects.

I know a government that is both functional and not controlled by conservatives is an impossible ask but that doesn't mean people can't be mad about it. In fact if they do want to win elections, they should probably look into doing stuff that makes young people less mad instead, like cancelling student loans.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Letting that decision stand is going to be a horrendous precedent for the next pandemic. The judge claimed that the CDC never had the authority to institute a mask mandate at all.

Generally district court decisions do not set a precedent. If they appealed and lost it would create a precedent. The proper way to change that is for Congress to pass a law providing such authority.

red sox 777 posted...

The proper way to change that is for Congress to pass a law providing such authority.

hahahahahahaha

If they don't and the voters want it, it's up to them to vote them out of office. If they don't do that, they can only blame themselves.

Ive also seen several anecdotes of planes literally changing the masking policy of a flight mid-air yesterday

I cant describe how pissed I would be to have boarded under the understanding that a mandate would be in place and then have that rule changed when youre trapped on the plane with zero recourse.

I saw some extremely normal videos of Captains being super duper excited to make the announcement, followed by cheering and happy crying from the passengers.

A friend of mine was on a plane at the time and described a similar thing happening with the captain making an excited announcement with all the passengers cheering loudly and removing their masks. Utterly deranged. Here's to another million deaths in the US from covid.

And those stories are exactly why Biden isn't going to fight this. And I don't blame him, honestly.

Suprak the Stud posted...

And those stories are exactly why Biden isn't going to fight this. And I don't blame him, honestly.

Serious question: why not?

Most of us in here are informed enough about politics to be cynical about it, but the normie perspective of someone who trusts the government a little is that the government says it's safe, therefore COVID is over. I can't really fault people's honest reactions without also faulting a government that has been downplaying the pandemic for multiple years in an effort to not upset those same people. It's the world's dumbest feedback loop and I've basically got an endless supply of blame to go around.

Because it's a losing fight and people are dumb? The "normie" (lol) perspective is "I want to do whatever I want when I want and I don't want to wear a mask anymore because Joe Rogan said not to". "We should listen to science and the experts and the government" are left leaning opinions now, not consensus mainstream ones, and polling has shown that people don't want to do it.

It is incredibly frustrating, sure, but at least at this point my general perspective is "if you don't want to wear a mask or get vaccinated, then no one is responsible for your death but you and I'm just going to shake my head when your widow posts your gofundme because you're also the kind of person to be woefully underinsured". I'm tired of taking the high road when the majority of Americans just don't care.

I don't even think it would be possible for Biden to successfully fight it head-on.

But at least make a case that mask mandates are legal! If they just let this slide, what happens during the next pandemic?

Hell, I'd settle for Joe showing strength on basically any issue at this point. So far it's like "Well let's do that, ah well, nevertheless" on repeat, and it feels like he's autopiloting through the presidency when we're hurtling towards simultaneous climate and human right's apocalypses.

What exactly do you want him to do when half the population has been brainwashed to such stupidity theyd never believe anything anyone who isnt an R says? Anything he does theyll just fight or ignore anyways regardless

Suprak the Stud posted...

We should listen to science and the experts and the government" are left leaning opinions now, not consensus mainstream ones,

I think you missed my point which is that this mainstream "left leaning" position (aka the liberal position) of listening to the government experts is exactly what gets you the CDC slowly lifting requirements leading to Biden shrugging.

We are well past the point where this is limited to Republicans only! It's the liberal position too and has been for a while: we listened to the science and now it's done. The main people still struggling against it are the progressive left and people it's directly affecting, that's why it's a "safe" move electorally.

swordz9 posted...

What exactly do you want him to do when half the population has been brainwashed to such stupidity theyd never believe anything anyone who isnt an R says? Anything he does theyll just fight or ignore anyways regardless

I mean nothing now, he would have had to take more drastic measures to reverse Trump's initial mishandling sooner instead of moderately mitigating it. Like I said, it's been a slow burn towards apathy over multiple years and I'm blaming everyone because I don't see a reason not to.

Also yeah this specific case setting a bad precedent is a good point, depending on how much judicial precedent matters in the future but better safe than sorry probably. Isn't the policy wonk take to fight it anyways just for that reason even if you let it expire?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I don't even think it would be possible for Biden to successfully fight it head-on.

But at least make a case that mask mandates are legal! If they just let this slide, what happens during the next pandemic?

Hell, I'd settle for Joe showing strength on basically any issue at this point. So far it's like "Well let's do that, ah well, nevertheless" on repeat, and it feels like he's autopiloting through the presidency when we're hurtling towards simultaneous climate and human right's apocalypses.

Those bottom two things are way more concerning and yeah, for sure. This just isnt an issue I care about him standing up on because it literally doesnt matter for a number of reasons.

1) Mask mandates were lifted for schools in my very blue state months ago. I have two school age kids who I still have masked but 50%+ are not.

2) Airplane mandates were already windowing.

3) As someone who travels a lot for various conferences, enforcement has been a joke unless you are loud and dumb about it. Does it matter theres a mask mandate when all the anti-maskers just buy huge portions of food and then eat them as slowly as humanly possible right next to you? Ive been on multiple flights where people in my row have been masked maybe 50% of the time and those masked times are basically half on anyway.

And its a losing issue because people are dumb and we dont deserve good things. Im fully vaxxed as is my spouse and two school aged kids, and the baby we just dont take to large gatherings. Biden has so little political capital and power already that Id rather him use it on something actually meaningful. He probably wont anyway like you point out, but that is again our fault as a country for electing 50% republicans and then wondering why the hell nothing gets done or gets better.

The people in charge of deciding how masks are enforced are rich enough that COVID is no threat but masks are an inconvenience.

There just isn't a winning battle to be had here.

https://twitter.com/snopes/status/1516140778682204166?t=JAOHOmcAYZyFqWMgULkJiw&s=19

https://twitter.com/jim_jordan/status/1516522306331414540?s=21&t=G5035ir6H2rCioJb5zPu6A

Actually I take it all back. I want these miserable morons as unhappy for as long as possible, electoral consequences be damned.

Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/snopes/status/1516140778682204166?t=JAOHOmcAYZyFqWMgULkJiw&s=19

wait I thought the woke mob would be putting dick veins on everything

man tho now I wanna search twitter for dick vein to see where this is coming from but um... I don't think I should

literally cannot believe we're still having mask discourse in 2022 the year of our lord

They're challenging the mask mandate ruling, after all.

Sick, now theyre gonna challenge it after Joe publicly said people should decide for themselves?

We live in hell

Lol I like to imagine they also saw that tweet and were also like "nah fuck Jim Jordan".

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Sick, now theyre gonna challenge it after Joe publicly said people should decide for themselves?

We live in hell

Well, they didn't say they're extending it, just that they're preparing to appeal.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1516509789286813699?s=21

What a fucking psycho

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

We live in hell

It took you this long to figure it out?

https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1516796497983012868?s=21&t=ZTRzw6p7libBuWamdh2Llw

Democrats need to get serious, because there are millions of people who could be convinced to vote Dem, but need a reason to believe its worthwhileand they think this shit is fake/exaggerated(I do not).

I really appreciate the optimism you have in people, Tony. I don't mean that to be snarky, because I'm sure it sounds like I do.

I think they could do exactly what is being described there and 60%+ of the country wouldn't care or would outright support it. If everything the Republicans have done over the past four years haven't convinced people to vote Dem already, I don't think there are things that are going to move the needle more than the tiniest of margins. All the stuff that is going on - people don't care. I would hope you're right, but I'm pessimistic about things getting better any time soon and I mean that in like "the next 20 years" kind of way.

Edit: and not to give an excuse for democratic inaction regardless of the difficulties they face. But its less you need to do this because it can save you electorally and more you need to do this because you likely wont have the chance to again.

Suprak the Stud posted...

four years haven't convinced people to vote Dem already, I don't think there are things that are going to move the needle more than the tiniest of margins.

I think it's simply many republicans care more about gas prices than autocracy.

Which sounds dumb because it is, but here we are.

Suprak the Stud posted...

I think they could do exactly what is being described there and 60%+ of the country wouldn't care or would outright support it.

To be fair, I think this applies about equally to the opposite scenario in which Democrats purge all Republicans. "Don't care either way" has to end up as the biggest faction.

What is scary is that only Republicans seem to understand and desire this scenario while Democrats remain willfully ignorant about it.

masterplum posted...

I think it's simply many republicans care more about gas prices than autocracy.

I think it's simply many Republicans want an autocracy, as long as they're the ones in control and they feel Democrats won't do anything about it and if they do, they feel they can win a civil war.

Dancedreamer posted...

I think it's simply many Republicans want an autocracy, as long as they're the ones in control and they feel Democrats won't do anything about it and if they do, they feel they can win a civil war.

Nah, I mean I'm sure some do, but I don't think most republicans think that far ahead or care. They go gas prices make me mad! It's Biden's fault! And that's the end of the thought process

masterplum posted...

Nah, I mean I'm sure some do, but I don't think most republicans think that far ahead or care. They go gas prices make me mad! It's Biden's fault! And that's the end of the thought process

Dude you cannot actually believe this.

masterplum posted...

Nah, I mean I'm sure some do, but I don't think most republicans think that far ahead or care. They go gas prices make me mad! It's Biden's fault! And that's the end of the thought process

I don't think they have to think too far ahead to think "I want Republicans in charge of everything."

If tomorrow, Biden were to announce that they found a source of gas that will lower the price to $1.00/gallon, they'd still hate him and support these sycophants they currently are. Because gas prices don't really matter. They're just something convenient to yell about that they think will appeal to non-Republicans (and they're, sadly, right.)

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Dude you cannot actually believe this.

Have you talked to average republicans? Not the Fox News pundits or politicians, random people who vote R?

They don't get involved in things that nuanced, its not how their brain works.

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/

The issue isn't that most Republican voters actively want an authoritarian government. Most don't. It's that they simply don't care about democracy. I find it deeply offensive on a personal level too, but that's what it is. Even on a purely pragmatic level they think that nothing will happen to them under such an authoritarian system, and unless things led to a civil war, they're probably right. Standards of living for the establishment right stayed perfectly fine in Germany and Italy and Chile (and probably did in Spain as well once recovery from the war was over.)

masterplum posted...

Have you talked to average republicans? Not the Fox News pundits or politicians, random people who vote R?

They don't get involved in things that nuanced, its not how their brain works.

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2015/02/why-theres-no-conservative-jon-stewart/385480/

I was going to drag this article for being laughably out of touch but it's from 2015 so that explains a lot. The premise that conservatives don't engage in satire is ridiculous in a world where Trump and Tucker Carlson memed their way to cultural supremacy. Just because it's lowbrow satire that liberals don't find funny doesn't mean it's not the same style of jokes!

(also liberal talk radio is podcasts)

I kind of feel like Tucker Carlson ended up having the better career despite getting roasted by Jon Stewart on Crossfire many years ago.

armitage999 posted...

I kind of feel like Tucker Carlson ended up having the better career despite getting roasted by Jon Stewart on Crossfire many years ago.

...Really?

StealThisSheen posted...

...Really?

It's the sort of thing that should have killed his career, though I'm sure he would have been crying to sleep at night on a bed full of money anyway once he inherited the Swanson fortune. Carlson's ratings have been through the roof over the years and he has so much control over his audience, it's insane. It feels like the right has controlled the narrative so effectively that a void of charisma like Carlson, a thumb with a bowtie and a bad haircut has his audience in the palm of his hands.

Stewart had a following himself for awhile but I don't feel like he was as effective an influencer as Carlson has been.

It kinda feels like that's a self defeating argument, since it all but admits you could put pretty much anybody in Tucker's spot, have them read the same bullshit, and they'd get the same result. "Influence" is also a rather narrow thing to weigh an entire career on, and it's not exactly well defined to begin with. Is anybody going to remember Tucker Carlson if he vanished tomorrow, or are they gonna move on to the next guy spouting the same rhetoric? Is it actually Tucker getting through to people, or the memey garbage he's spouting that is basically stolen from the internet?

Hey may be more replaceable than Stewart but his career certainly hasn't slowed down. Of course, if Jon never walked away from television I think it'd be a different story.

Thoughts on Disney vs Florida Republicans?

Typically I'm all for Disney losing special privileges but this seems like a dumb way to go about it.

The speech implications for the GOP retaliating against a company for perfectly legal actions are way worse than the negatives of any privileges they maybe shouldn't have. Obviously, DeSantis et al aren't actually mad about Disney making political statements, just that the statements on the progressive "side."

Maniac64 posted...

Thoughts on Disney vs Florida Republicans?

Typically I'm all for Disney losing special privileges but this seems like a dumb way to go about it.

let them fight

armitage999 posted...

Stewart had a following himself for awhile but I don't feel like he was as effective an influencer as Carlson has been.

Carlson isn't really an influencer. Republicans are a hivemind. They don't disagree on pretty much anything (at least nothing that really matters), so he really just has to spout whatever they believe. He just regurgitates whatever they want to hear. It's easy to tell people what they want to hear. That's not being an influencer.

Retaliating against people/entities for completely legal actions is the backbone of conservatism. There aren't any implications there that haven't been implied already, for hundreds of years.

Hopefully this will lead to one of the GOP or Disney seriously hurting the other, but if I had to put money on an outcome, they'll just make some backroom deal about how Disney is allowed to make token inclusivity statements as long as they don't actually push for any real change, and the GOP leaves them alone in return.

LordoftheMorons posted...

The speech implications for the GOP retaliating against a company for perfectly legal actions are way worse than the negatives of any privileges they maybe shouldn't have. Obviously, DeSantis et al aren't actually mad about Disney making political statements, just that the statements on the progressive "side."

Are they just going to revoke special privileges granted to Disney that shouldn't have been granted in the first place? If so, there is no chilling effect on speech.

when the fight is literally over the harassment of LGBT lives yeah nah this ain't the time for a "let them fight"

red sox 777 posted...

Are they just going to revoke special privileges granted to Disney that shouldn't have been granted in the first place? If so, there is no chilling effect on speech.

How is there not a chilling effect if the revocation is clearly connected to the speech? Like, they're even explicitly saying that's why they'd be doing it!

Maniac64 posted...

Thoughts on Disney vs Florida Republicans?

Typically I'm all for Disney losing special privileges but this seems like a dumb way to go about it.

Special privileges like saying gay people are ok to acknowledge? Idgi