Board 8 > Ask an American teacher who left the career to go into web development anything

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also I just started HZD yesterday.

Background - taught for about half a decade. Music. Would have been primarily bandosphere but ended up teaching gen music for a much wider range. Also some silly computer literacy course one year.

I am coming on the year marker for the last time I was teaching in a classroom (although I still did some marching band teaching in the summer/fall), and felt retrospective.

Was it a money thing or a career viability thing?

imthestuntman posted...

Was it a money thing or a career viability thing?

Many things. Mostly stress and a desire not to have to deal with shit, I suppose. The hours, the hoops you have to jump through, the administrations and government administrations and whims of voters who have no understanding of your job you have to deal with...

I would have made a teacher's salary work, and though I was reluctant to move when I made the decision, I could have picked up to continue my career elsewhere. Neither of those were a primary influence, though the money is certainly nice.

What is your favorite mode?

NFUN posted...

What is your favorite mode?

Without further context, I assume you mean church modes. I don't really have a preference in terms of true modal music, but in terms of using the scales in non-modal ways, I've had a lot of success with Mixolydian. This is ignoring the overabundance of Ionian/Aeolian(major/nat. minor), though.

What does the fox say?

How well do you see the MAC doing in the NCAA Tournament?

What's the stupidest thing you've heard a student say?

Do you think you will still be doing what you do five years from now?

FFDragon posted...

What does the fox say?

some barking sound

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

How well do you see the MAC doing in the NCAA Tournament?

Out in first round unless Ohio makes it, in which case they'll go out in the Sweet Sixteen

kateee posted...

What's the stupidest thing you've heard a student say?

I don't have a memory for details like this, but my front ensemble students called me grandpa. That's more charming, though. Probably actually some freshmen trying to sneak Fortnite games during their bathroom breaks and calling them out on it.

Bartzyx posted...

Do you think you will still be doing what you do five years from now?

Probably, although I don't think I'll be on the same project or team.

Did you like the work itself separate from all the baggage/politics that came with it?

Raka_Putra posted...

Did you like the work itself separate from all the baggage/politics that came with it?

Certainly. Teaching music classes was fulfilling. Teaching band always felt comfortable, and there's a lot to be earned by facilitating a band through a marching season to the final competition. Monitoring growth in real time, seeing students come so far over the years in terms of musical and personal growth - all amazing things. I really loved that portion of the job.

I just finally got my first actual high school teaching job in September in Ontario, Canada (a great place to be a teacher), and I absolutely do not envy what American teachers have to go through in terms of stress, curriculum content being cut, and shitty wages.

My friend was doing web dev but recently quit to teach at a high school. I feel like your path is more common tho.

I'm a web dev and I'm trying to do some part time teaching at a dev bootcamp. That seems like the positives of teaching but without the nonsense.

How did you actually get into web dev?

I did one of those coding bootcamps which was okay but I didn't really feel prepared to actually get a job once it was over. I found it hard to stay motivated to keep doing projects and coding after the class ends.

Sometimes I think about trying to get into it again but I'd basically be starting over from scratch since it's been 4 or 5 years.

Why web development?

How often were your lessons observed (for appraisal purposes) and was it always done professionally?

What tools do you use, and what framework do you like and why?

What are the best and worst excuses a student ever gave you for why they didn't practice?

foolm0r0n posted...

My friend was doing web dev but recently quit to teach at a high school. I feel like your path is more common tho.

I'm a web dev and I'm trying to do some part time teaching at a dev bootcamp. That seems like the positives of teaching but without the nonsense.

I would feel like it's not quite as comparable, but my instructor and career counselor from my bootcamp were really supportive of me and interested in how I was doing after, so I guess I just don't have the frame of reference!

davidponte posted...

I just finally got my first actual high school teaching job in September in Ontario, Canada (a great place to be a teacher), and I absolutely do not envy what American teachers have to go through in terms of stress, curriculum content being cut, and shitty wages.

I hope it's going well!

skullbone posted...

How did you actually get into web dev?

I did one of those coding bootcamps which was okay but I didn't really feel prepared to actually get a job once it was over. I found it hard to stay motivated to keep doing projects and coding after the class ends.

Sometimes I think about trying to get into it again but I'd basically be starting over from scratch since it's been 4 or 5 years.

I took a few years of comp sci back in highschool some 12+ years ago and had an affinity for it. Then I did a bootcamp and got a job out of that. Thing is, the basics of programming are what is important - individual languages, specific frameworks, are all good to toss on your resum, but for a first-job coder, there are plenty of job opportunities available. You just have to be able to describe some basic concepts, do follow-up calls, and chug away.

LunaticCritic posted...

Why web development?

Had a background of enjoying programming, and I had a friend who did the same thing I did. He was a band director, took a bootcamp, got a good job right away. He recommended me the place I went to and all was good from there. Helped that I was easily the best student in my bootcamp which meant the school put good effort into helping me get placed.

XIII_rocks posted...

How often were your lessons observed (for appraisal purposes) and was it always done professionally?

When doing a long-term sub position - literally never. Principal paid zero attention to a long-term sub who was designing curriculum for a new class as I taught it.
In the high school, twice a year. Was done professionally but he didn't understand music or why putting freshmen with no experience in the same class with my advanced percussionists was a bad idea.
When doing grade school music - never.

LiquidOshawott posted...

What tools do you use, and what framework do you like and why?

We code mainly in typescript/javascript, and use React. Also some Coldfusion but just because that's what the old code is written in. React has a lot of extra stuff I feel like I have to do to code in it, but now that I'm used to it, it flows easy enough and I can use it fine. Beforehand, I had really only worked in Java and a little bit of other languages (bootcamp project used Angular), so I'd say everything I'm using now is what I like because I've done it the most (except fuck Coldfusion).

Not_an_Owl posted...

What are the best and worst excuses a student ever gave you for why they didn't practice?

There's no good excuse that isn't like, something serious.
For bad? When they say they did practice but are clearly lying. When they say that they have do homework, despite having an hour after school but between after-school band to work on it. Stuff like that. Just poor time management.

skullbone posted...

I found it hard to stay motivated to keep doing projects and coding after the class ends.

Why did you try in the first place? You don't really need internal motivation for this industry since the demand is so high and the bar is so low. Having a chill well paying job should be enough to keep you going. But if you think you have more potential elsewhere then it's hard to justify.

Well I just didn't feel prepared to actually land a job once the class ended. So I started doing codewars and trying to work on projects to increase my skill and knowledge but eventually I just couldn't sit down and do it anymore. You don't work on a project for a day and then it becomes a week and a month and a year.

I did apply to a lot of jobs but never got a response which was also a little discouraging. I definitely gave up too easily but I have thought about trying to get back into it lately.

I've never gotten a response for a coding job from a place I haven't done a follow-up call to.

"an american teacher who-" wtf it's literally just han why do we need a topic to ask you stuff

Steiner posted...

"an american teacher who-" wtf it's literally just han why do we need a topic to ask you stuff

new union bylaws

I gave up on teaching after a year and a half. I'm still working in education, but on the side. I have zero desire to step into a conventional classroom again.

what sort of structure and mentorship do you have at your new place?

how do you feel day to day in the new role?

FWIW, i'm coming at it from the perspective of someone in an almost inverse situation from yours

been a software/web dev for about a decade, and am getting burnt out on building these services and applications. thinking about getting out.

it's gettin REAL hard to lead by example or look my team members in the eye and tell them what they're doing is worth it!

it also just sucks to be the one whose job is to bulldoze over people who are wrong but confident. PARTICULARLY when, deep down, i don't care about the end product- i only care about the people. as i'm typing this i know the answer is to just hire more people who really know what they're doing so they can make the arguments for me

i've also performed a shitload of interviews of boot campers as well as those educated traditionally, and am interested to know what a good fit looks like

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Certainly. Teaching music classes was fulfilling. Teaching band always felt comfortable, and there's a lot to be earned by facilitating a band through a marching season to the final competition. Monitoring growth in real time, seeing students come so far over the years in terms of musical and personal growth - all amazing things. I really loved that portion of the job.

Good to hear that!

Also...thoughts on Pixar's Soul?

banananor posted...

what sort of structure and mentorship do you have at your new place?

how do you feel day to day in the new role?

Came in to a small team. Fourth member. Supervisor there, but after a month, I was handed over to a senior dev to be my mentor. It all worked pretty well... my mentor left the company soon and then I got a new one, but by this point, I'm mostly self-guided and only ask him questions when I'm really lost.

banananor posted...

FWIW, i'm coming at it from the perspective of someone in an almost inverse situation from yours

been a software/web dev for about a decade, and am getting burnt out on building these services and applications. thinking about getting out.

it's gettin REAL hard to lead by example or look my team members in the eye and tell them what they're doing is worth it!

it also just sucks to be the one whose job is to bulldoze over people who are wrong but confident. PARTICULARLY when, deep down, i don't care about the end product- i only care about the people. as i'm typing this i know the answer is to just hire more people who really know what they're doing so they can make the arguments for me

i've also performed a shitload of interviews of boot campers as well as those educated traditionally, and am interested to know what a good fit looks like

Okay! So yeah, I came in with the understanding that I was a boot camper. They had me do some codecademy tutorials that were mostly worthless, then some specifically designed tutorials for the product we work on. After that, my supe was my mentor for a bit, especially starting out. Then after that point, I had a mentor that I could contact whenever I wanted, although I tried to figure things out myself first.

Recently, we hired another bootcamper to the team who is going through the same, although his mentor isn't as good. For a Friday project, I asked my supe to let me rewrite the tutorial for new team members, though I didn't get it done before this guy got hired (using that teaching background).

ANYWAY bootcampers will do as you teach them, probably without ego. As long as mentors are available to talk whenever, I think it's a good set-up.

Let me know if you have more specific questions?

Raka_Putra posted...

Good to hear that!

Also...thoughts on Pixar's Soul?

It came out right when I was in the middle of my career change. Because of that, I think it sunk in a lot.

what would you recommend as a first step for someone with zero background who, just this second, started considering a similar change? like, as fundamental as for even knowing if it's for me.

why are you running

first of all, i should've already said congratulations on making the switch- it's a good life. i appreciate the answers. you can rest easy that i don't need the pitch :)

are you mostly excited? do you have imposter syndrome?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

ANYWAY bootcampers will do as you teach them, probably without ego.

haha, you'd be surprised. the main thing i've learned is that there are a LOT of interesting people out there, and if you're anywhere near friendly, reasonable, intelligent and willing to learn you're kind of a slam dunk. i used to have a lot of imposter syndrome until i started being the official manager for people and dealing with all the different varieties of nonsense

i've helped hire a few boot campers, and i think success comes down to screening extra heavily on personality. Having a lot of mentorship/code review available is also mandatory, as is having a lot of doable work for them to grind through. if any of those are missing you need to realize you should be hiring more senior devs or at least college grads (i'd say early stage companies shouldn't even have any juniors)

you don't need to answer- and without revealing too much- what do they have you doing? UI, testing, CRUD? just kind of curious.

PumpkinCoach posted...

what would you recommend as a first step for someone with zero background who, just this second, started considering a similar change? like, as fundamental as for even knowing if it's for me.

the best first step? being at a liberal arts college and taking an intro to computer science course. that's not an option for us at this point for obvious reasons

i'd recommend going through some kind of free 'intro to computer science' things online and see how frustrated you get. i think a lot of them give you free trials. i'll cede to Han on which ones are good nowadays- I think udemy has a good rep? coursera? idk

the nice and also not so nice part of coding is that the learning curve is extremely steep at the beginning. like, "how the hell does text translate to computers doing things" levels of confusion steep. so just immersing yourself in the material for a few days should give you a sense of whether it's interesting or maddening. in my intro class i think 80% dropped out after the first two weeks

if you enjoy puzzles, logic, or "solving" strategy games you'll probably enjoy programming

separately- and you didn't ask- but don't think that boot camps == automatic jobs. their placement rates are a lot lower than they want you to believe- make sure to do your research. once you get one job on your resume you're kind of set, though

PumpkinCoach posted...

what would you recommend as a first step for someone with zero background who, just this second, started considering a similar change? like, as fundamental as for even knowing if it's for me.

Honestly, codecademy and going through a basic C# or Java course. Just give basic stuff a try, and if your mind starts to think of applications of new coding techniques you learn, explore them!

MariaTaylor posted...

why are you running

This town needs a new comptroller. It's time for a change.

banananor posted...

first of all, i should've already said congratulations on making the switch- it's a good life. i appreciate the answers. you can rest easy that i don't need the pitch :)

are you mostly excited? do you have imposter syndrome?

haha, you'd be surprised. the main thing i've learned is that there are a LOT of interesting people out there, and if you're anywhere near friendly, reasonable, intelligent and willing to learn you're kind of a slam dunk. i used to have a lot of imposter syndrome until i started being the official manager for people and dealing with all the different varieties of nonsense

i've helped hire a few boot campers, and i think success comes down to screening extra heavily on personality. Having a lot of mentorship/code review available is also mandatory, as is having a lot of doable work for them to grind through. if any of those are missing you need to realize you should be hiring more senior devs or at least college grads (i'd say early stage companies shouldn't even have any juniors)

you don't need to answer- and without revealing too much- what do they have you doing? UI, testing, CRUD? just kind of curious.

Thanks!
I've been enjoying it. I'm a few weeks from my anniversary in the position, actually. I hear of a lot of people having impostor syndrome, but I'm weird in that I don't. I just know if I know how to do something or not, and my team does a good job at supporting me when I say I don't know how to do something.

My position is full-stack - data extraction into CRUD processes, programmed in mid-tier to help process and analyze data, for front-end display.

I realize I don't have to tell you what that means but I wanted to clarify for others.

skullbone posted...

I did apply to a lot of jobs but never got a response which was also a little discouraging. I definitely gave up too easily but I have thought about trying to get back into it lately.

Yeah that sucks, I thought that was like the main job of the bootcamp people hah.

Well beyond that, you can find a local tech recruiter who will place you. They are super predatory and "free" because they work for the employer, not for you. But it's a great option for the very first step. Then 6-12 months later you bounce, and have a much stronger leg to stand on.

banananor posted...

if you enjoy puzzles, logic, or "solving" strategy games you'll probably enjoy programming

Disagree about this, I think if you go into it expecting this you'll burn out fast.

The core of programming as a day job is solving business problems using automation. Business do X Y and Z every day already, but they want to do it 10x faster. That's the vast majority of jobs you'll have for a long time.

There's no puzzle to solve since their process already works. And someone else probably already broke it down into steps for automation. You just need to implement it in a computer without bugs. If you don't enjoy that part, you won't like it. It can still be very creative, but not in a clever puzzley way - only in an efficiency way.

Eventually you'll get to the higher level and have more say in the design and requirements, but even then you are beholden to the business needs. Basically, you can have a lot of influence and creativity, which is awesome, but you're not going to be an artist.

Which bootcamp and would you recommend it?

why can't they print band music in a paper size that makes sense