Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 380: Manchin Ease Theater

(+) Yeah! (+)

I have no idea what Prosecution is doing, but they look completely miserable and upset. Defense is just winning on every witness. I don't know that the Prosecution just didn't do enough prep or what but this is weird.

It's something we have seen a lot of recently, where the prosecution goes after specific charges they have no hope in hell of getting a conviction on, rather than focusing on the facts of the case. I don't know if the prosecution in these cases does this intentionally to try and build fame off of the case, or if they let their own personal political beliefs muddy the truth.

Any person who watched any of the unedited videos from that night would agree that, if nothing else, Rittenhouse was acting in self defense in that moment. So why try to nail him on murder charges, rather than focus on all of the other laws he unquestionably broke?

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Also, I have to love how the woke left is making a big deal of Trump not going to Colin Powell's funeral, gleefully ignoring the fact that Powell was a literal fucking war criminal and one of the primary forces behind the Iraq clusterfuck.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Also, I have to love how the woke left is making a big deal of Trump not going to Colin Powell's funeral, gleefully ignoring the fact that Powell was a literal fucking war criminal and one of the primary forces behind the Iraq clusterfuck.

Literally no one I know cares and I am super left.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

It's nice to know that if you want to kill people you can still just illegally put yourself in bad positions until the opportunity arises.

Ignoring the fact that he will be charged for illegally being in said bad position with his illegal weapons, he didn't force those people to try and attack him. And given the details that have come out about Huber (and the numerous clear as daylight videos of the shooting), it's basically impossible to get a murder conviction unless the jury is just absolutely stacked with idiots

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Literally no one I know cares and I am super left.

Uhhhh

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/19/politics/donald-trump-colin-powell-death/index.html

Although I suspect he's only doing this because Powell endorsed Biden, but it's still great to see that at least some "progressive" people can look past his skin color to see what an absolute monster he was.

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That's not the left.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

That's not the left.

It also isn't even an article about Trump not attending Powell's funeral.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Also, I have to love how the woke left is making a big deal of Trump not going to Colin Powell's funeral, gleefully ignoring the fact that Powell was a literal fucking war criminal and one of the primary forces behind the Iraq clusterfuck.

Pretty sure it's moderate Dems that are mad about it. Most of the "woke left" think he's a war criminal, too.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Pretty sure it's moderate Dems that are mad about it. Most of the "woke left" think he's a war criminal, too.

^

The woke left is way more likely to criticize places like CNN rehabilitating his image since leaving office than they are to care about whatever the hell Trump wants to do in regards to his funeral.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

And while I agree with this, there has to be a point where you can't have the clear intent to create the situation for yourself.

See, I know about Kyle saying shitty edgelord shit about wanting to kill people, but I'm not entirely convinced he intended to put himself in a situation where he'd actually want to kill anyone. And I know that wasn't admitted into the trial because they're trying to keep ALL character stuff out of the trial before that night (and despite what the media is trying to say, this is completely fair judging by the character information they had from the victims in this).

Kyle didn't provoke a single person that night. All he did was stand around, watching a car lot. In which he was asked to watch over, but the witness they brought on that asked him lied on the stand pretty clearly, contradicting himself constantly, because if he admits that he asked people to watch over his car lot with guns, the insurance company will sue the fuck out of them for insurance fraud. And when Kyle was walking around, he wasn't picking fights, he wasn't saying anything shitty, and he was asking people if they needed medical help, be it protestors, rioters, or people there trying to defend.

There hasn't been a single bit of evidence that night that Kyle was out there to provoke a situation where he'd have to fire his weapon on someone, and if they had ANY evidence of that by now, it would have been presented. But the people who spent all night around him were all saying he didn't provoke anything.

The only evidence that started off Kyle firing that night is Rosenbaum acting like a fucking lunatic all night, asking people to shoot him, destroying stuff, and directly threatening Kyle's group that if he sees one of them alone, he's going to kill them. And then he waited until Kyle was alone, ambushed him, and he attacked him, and Kyle did not fire a single shot until Rosenbaum tried to take his gun away from him. And if Kyle was carrying a machete, it doesn't matter. Rosenbaum tried to take his weapon and he died.

The situation is that nobody should have been there. The thing that made it so dangerous wasn't Rittenhouse carrying a gun--the police testified that most of the people they talked to were carrying guns, and that they heard gun shots literally the whole night. People recklessly shooting all night, and violent crazy people trying to fight people made this happen.

If Rosenbaum didn't attack Kyle, he was going to attack someone else. He would have been shot no matter who he attacked, or he may have killed someone else if he was successful. Kyle did nothing but be there at the wrong time. This isn't a case of someone seeing a crime and running up and trying to kill someone over it like you tried to explain it is. There is just no evidence, that night, of Kyle trying to bring any further danger into the situation. And every single person there with Kyle that night testified that they had their guns as a deterrent and nothing more, and as a last resort to defend themselves.

That said, Kyle is still a shitty little edgelord, and from what I have gathered, a white supremacist piece of shit. But there's nothing that we've seen so far that implies Kyle was trying to find a reason to shoot his weapon, provoking conflict, or putting himself into danger any more than any other person who was there that night. If existing there with a gun to defend yourself was a crime, then by the police officer's testimony, the majority of people there were also trying to provoke conflict.

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I don't know if him being a white supremacist is even accurate. If anything, it sounds like he was just a kid that strongly was about law and order in regards to the protests and wanted to be a cop. Yes, he broke the laws likely to have the gun there in the first place, but I think the thing stands based on what I have read about him.

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Corrik7 posted...

I don't know if him being a white supremacist is even accurate. If anything, it sounds like he was just a kid that strongly was about law and order in regards to the protests and wanted to be a cop.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-rittenhouse-proud-boys-bar/

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isnt a hate symbol, its exactly like Lets Go Brandon in that its corny as hell, schoolyard behavior that all people on the rightnot just the white nationalistsdo to trigger the Libs, and in the formers case it worked ridiculously well, the latter is about 50/50, but its on the way there.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

isnt a hate symbol, its exactly like Lets Go Brandon in that its corny as hell, schoolyard behavior that all people on the rightnot just the white nationalistsdo to trigger the Libs, and in the formers case it worked ridiculously well, the latter is about 50/50, but its on the way there.

sure, but at a certain point they're "just being racist ironically"

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honestly i can't think of a time i ever actually used the ok symbol since a thumbs-up covers the exact same function much more casually

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It's stupid, but I used the a-okay symbol pretty regularly before people started saying it was a hate symbol. Since then I've kind of curbed my usage of it.

I'm pretty sure it originated from 4chan wanting to convince people it was a hate symbol, and they actually succeeded.

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not really anything new, nazis have been ruining haircuts for decades

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-rittenhouse-proud-boys-bar/

That was after the fact and there is nothing to suggest that before the fact. In fact, I think the only negative thing before it was a video of him in a schoolyard fight or something.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

isnt a hate symbol, its exactly like Lets Go Brandon in that its corny as hell, schoolyard behavior that all people on the rightnot just the white nationalistsdo to trigger the Libs, and in the formers case it worked ridiculously well, the latter is about 50/50, but its on the way there.

When you permeate something into society to be a hate symbol, it is now a hate symbol. It can still be used with heavy context to me okay(Such as saying "okay" along with it) but if your just throwing it out there these days it is pretty much assumed to be a hate symbol first.

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The okay sign is something normal enough that people absolutely might happen to do it without meaning it as a hate symbol (like with that one dude who was signaling his number of wins on jeopardy).

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

isnt a hate symbol, its exactly like Lets Go Brandon in that its corny as hell, schoolyard behavior that all people on the rightnot just the white nationalistsdo to trigger the Libs, and in the formers case it worked ridiculously well, the latter is about 50/50, but its on the way there.

Which provides cover for the actual white supremacists using it.


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GuessMyUserName posted...

not really anything new, nazis have been ruining haircuts for decades

And a certain mustache style

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Ignoring the fact that he will be charged for illegally being in said bad position with his illegal weapons, he didn't force those people to try and attack him. And given the details that have come out about Huber (and the numerous clear as daylight videos of the shooting), it's basically impossible to get a murder conviction unless the jury is just absolutely stacked with idiots

Did I say say anything about murder? I don't believe I did.

I said if you want to KILL someone it seems there are plenty of ways to engender situations to make sure you are technically within the bounds of the law when you do.

It's an indictment of both the legal system and the way our country glorifies gun violence for "protection" that allows these situations to keep occurring.

The fact that he seems to have had a foot on the "right" side of the law isn't the point.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Which provides cover for the actual white supremacists using it.

I dunno, seems like weird logic that could be anything

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I dunno, seems like weird logic that could be anything

Welcome to 2021.

Look, if people want to turn something into a hate symbol, it isn't that hard. Sorry society has to change with idiots.

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You know you could just, ignore it instead of frothing at the mouth and giving them the reaction and attention they crave so much. The ok symbol is fucking universal in that meaning, including as the universal sign that you are okay while scuba diving.

Should we cancel dive clubs for continuing to use the okay hand gesture?

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Who is actually frothing at the mouth?

Do you have to keep building up these non-existent boogey men just so you have a "left" to be enraged at 24/7?

EDIT: Like, I'm pretty sure the only time I actually saw a big deal made out of it was when somebody working at a theme park kept making the sign when taking pictures with minority kids, and that person ended up fired, which, hey... If you're into getting fired to "own the libs," well...

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Yeah I think people are confusing being offended with recognizing something is a hate symbol.

Also context never stops mattering.

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"Liberals are frothing at the mouth over the OK symbol."

Meanwhile, literal frothing-at-the-mouth conservatives stormed the capital to try and hang the VP in order to overturn a free and fair election.

Or they're smashing their coffee makers because they won't advertise on Hannity.

Or they're saying they'll never read Dr. Seuss again because a company made it's own private decision to remove some books from it's library.

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TheRock1525 posted...

"Liberals are frothing at the mouth over the OK symbol."

Meanwhile, literal frothing-at-the-mouth conservatives stormed the capital to try and hang the VP in order to overturn a free and fair election.

Or they're smashing their coffee makers because they won't advertise on Hannity.

Or they're saying they'll never read Dr. Seuss again because a company made it's own private decision to remove some books from it's library.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1457140541527937027

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QAnon was up to some weird stuff today

https://twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1457054471276662790?s=21

https://twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1457071491825258504?s=21

https://twitter.com/2021_karma/status/1457130194410475522?s=21

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GuessMyUserName posted...

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1457140541527937027

looking forward to a military occupation of sesame street making the 2024 gop platform

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does big bird work for the US government?

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

does big bird work for the US government?

the tendrils of the deep state extend far and wide

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

does big bird work for the US government?

When Sesame Street was on PBS they were in part funded by the government

Not sure now that theyre an HBO property if they still are

But, ironically, Ted Cruzs political tweets are by definition government propaganda

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xp1337 posted...

looking forward to a military occupation of sesame street making the 2024 gop platform

Attack and Dethrone Elmo

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Rittenhouse Trial update

So they had Grosskreutz on the stand, the guy who got his arm shot.

The Prosecution put him on and it was a pretty solid testimony. He went and said that he went after Kyle because he thought he said he was working for the police, which was... weird. But Prosecution tried to say Kyle wasn't there as a medic because he didn't change gloves, using Grosskreutz's history as an EMT. And then Grosskreutz said he would never shoot to kill Kyle because he doesn't believe in taking a life. And oddly, he Grosskreutz said that he saw Rosenbaum hurt and was there as a medic, but instead went to chase Kyle when he was heading with the police? He also had his gun illegally and wasn't from Kenosha.

And then Defense came in and then immediately said "You testified you had a gun, right? So why did you tell the police that you didn't have a gun at the time, and continued to maintain that immediately after this?" And then they mentioned that he has a $10 million lawsuit against the Kenosha police, in which he continued to maintain he didn't have a gun at the time. And then established that Grosskreutz had a significantly better chance of winning his lawsuit if Kyle went to jail.

And then he continued to say he wasn't chasing Kyle. He was just running the same direction, but not chasing him, with a gun (which he lied about having out during the chase). And then he said he never aimed a gun at Kyle, and he only ever surrendered. And then they showed the picture of Grosskreutz holding the gun to Kyle's head right before he fired. And then he said in his EMT experience, hitting Kyle in the head with a skateboard is head trauma and could seriously severely injure someone.

Then he was Tweeting three days ago with winky emojis talking shit about Kyle's gun malfunctioning, and they showed it in court.

And they went on break, but they have Grosskreutz admitting he had no regrets that night. But they want to admit his friend posting that Grosskreutz says he regrets not unloading his gun into Kyle before he was shot.

This is the clearest self-defense. I can't even believe it. I thought Grosskreutz would be a good witness but he lied his ass off and got caught out in so much evidence, and they've established he's a fucking liar clearly and that Kyle was in reasonable fear for his life. And they probably destroyed his civil suit as well, so he's likely not getting any money from that.

If the manslaughter and murder charges aren't dismissed prior to jury decision. I don't know how you bring this witness on, knowing all the other information, and not drop this case entirely. The Defense did a phenomenal job so far dismantling Grosskreutz's testimony.

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https://twitter.com/kylekulinski/status/1457696682536316938?s=21

I wonder what kind of pay Democratic Strategists pull these days, because its definitely too much

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Democratic strategists are less than useless but you're also giving voters too much credit. Exit polls in Virginia had education as a top concern and those voters broke republican by something like eight points. CRT is a nice dog whistle to scare all the racist suburban voters back into the booth. These culture war issues are dumb to us but "the way of life you knew is changing and only we can save it" works really well on boomers. Virginia also did a bunch of good stuff in the past two years and still got crushed.

That isn't to say Democrats should do more. But it's more of a "do everything you can because you're going to lose anyway" imo.

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Deport all the boomers imo

The problem is, messaging is like this:

Republicans: DEMOCRATS ARE COMMUNIST SCUMBAGS WHO HATE AMERICA AND WANT TO DESTROY YOUR WAY OF LIFE! THEY ARE LITERALLY THE ANTI-CHRIST AND HATE GOD AND JESUS AND WILL MAKE YOU PAY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS COLLEGE WHILE YOU GET NOTHING!

Democrats: We must work with Republicans to get things done. What have we done lately? Well err... can you give us some money so we can get more Democrats elected so we can do stuff? Because the ones we have in there aren't budging on things like Paid Family Leave or Minimum Wage. But the next group? They will for sure.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Democratic strategists are less than useless but you're also giving voters too much credit. Exit polls in Virginia had education as a top concern and those voters broke republican by something like eight points. CRT is a nice dog whistle to scare all the racist suburban voters back into the booth. These culture war issues are dumb to us but "the way of life you knew is changing and only we can save it" works really well on boomers. Virginia also did a bunch of good stuff in the past two years and still got crushed.

That isn't to say Democrats should do more. But it's more of a "do everything you can because you're going to lose anyway" imo.

I won't speak for Tony but to me that's the point. All this "culture war" stuff isn't strategically dumb if it works. There's this tendency to discount that or separate it out from "real" politics when it very much still is real politics. Like that video that was going around of a reporter making fun of the old dude who didn't know what CRT was. The GOP is winning votes by doubling down on racism, and that's a problem! I don't think that's giving voters too much credit as much as acknowledging the GOP knows how to work an audience.

And the second part being is that the take you tend to see among liberal pundits and analysts is for Dems to focus on policy, which like you say doesn't always work. Less so when they don't deliver policy. The difference is I don't think this is insurmountable as much as it is a tactical failure by Dems.

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Big bird getting vaccinated literally is government propaganda.

I agree with the propaganda, but Republicans arent wrong calling it that

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masterplum posted...

Big bird getting vaccinated literally is government propaganda.

No, it really isn't.

Saying "I got vaccinated" is in no way, shape, or form 'propaganda'.

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Dancedreamer posted...

No, it really isn't.

Saying "I got vaccinated" is in no way, shape, or form 'propaganda'.

PBS is government programming. Big bird getting vaccinated was done in order to encourage kids to get vaccinated. Thats what propaganda is

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More importantly, Big Bird is not the government.

Edit: And no, the government does not own Sesame Street. It's not even really a PBS show anymore.
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Isn't Sesame Street owned by HBO?

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The government of Sesame Street?

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I won't speak for Tony but to me that's the point. All this "culture war" stuff isn't strategically dumb if it works. There's this tendency to discount that or separate it out from "real" politics when it very much still is real politics. Like that video that was going around of a reporter making fun of the old dude who didn't know what CRT was. The GOP is winning votes by doubling down on racism, and that's a problem! I don't think that's giving voters too much credit as much as acknowledging the GOP knows how to work an audience.

And the second part being is that the take you tend to see among liberal pundits and analysts is for Dems to focus on policy, which like you say doesn't always work. Less so when they don't deliver policy. The difference is I don't think this is insurmountable as much as it is a tactical failure by Dems.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, except you are more optimistic on the nature of people than I am. I think that, no matter what the dems do, they lose here just because of the stupid nature of politics in the US and Americans in general. I agree it is a tactical failure, but not in the sense that it is causing them to lose seats which I think is inevitable just based on the cyclical nature of US politics. The tactical failure is not doing the greatest good they can because, no matter what they do, they're going to lose seats so they might as well do whatever they want.

(I know part of the issue is Manchin is a republican in any other state and Sinema is whatever the hell Sinema is, so they are limited and blah blah blah. Like I get that, but I still want them doing more than what they've been doing regardless of the limitations built into our stupid system and the systematic disadvantage democrats have by living in interesting cities rather than empty states)

To me, that tweet was very much saying "these culture war issues are useless and aren't what people care about" and I disagree with that because that is what way too many people care about. The republican party being what it is not some perversion of voters, but rather a direct reflection of them. Democrats could deliver on everything they promised on and still lose because republicans know how to get enough people scared about CRT or whatever other stupid issue it is they can use to drum up fear about the world changing and leaving them behind. So when I say KK is giving the voters too much credit, I mean in the sense that he thinks the voters would rally behind the democrats if they weren't a bunch of bumbling buffoons. I think he's wrong on that and gives the voters too much credit. They want this anti-vaccine, anti-science, fearmongering, CRT IS COMING FOR YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN party. It isn't disinterest driving people to the republicans and the people voting for them know exactly what they're voting for.

IMO of course.

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"Big Bird getting vaccinated is propaganda" is an excellent statement. It signals very clearly that the person saying it has zero investment or knowledge in the subject they're talking about from ANY angle, and that you can definitively take the stance that you can ignore literally anything that person has to say regarding any subject whatsoever.

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yeah, jakyl already mentioned that sesame street is HBO now.

and even if it was government owned, a PSA is not "propaganda." that's a loaded term.

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