Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 380: Manchin Ease Theater

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1457835361812496395?s=21

this is positively infuriating as a person who, while young, lived through this era and saw what happened

I think what he's trying to say there is that it would be inconcievable for society today to treat gay people and drug users as pariahs if AIDS was an emerging threat.

Which I would say I have to disagree. "Wokism" is easily trumped by fear at the end of the day, and I suspect that if AIDS was introduced today and spread in a similar fashion that it originally did, with it taking a long time for the specifics of the disease to be figured out, you would see a lot of the things that society did in the 80's be repeated.

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Dancedreamer posted...

If school is like daycare, we should start paying teachers like babysitters.

Let's say the going rate is $10/kid per hour (If you find a babysitter willing to do it for less, you probably shouldn't trust them with your kid. And good luck finding daycare that cheap!)
Each teacher has at least 16 students (That's a low ball number)
Let's say they teach 6 hours a day
180 days a year (or so)

So $172k/year sounds about right!

Teachers are already one of the most overpaid, under worked professions out there. Seriously, you would never expect a group of barely educated people making a living explaining spelling and simple addition, with 3 months a year off, making a solid upper middle class wage, to be also the biggest group of crybabies in society

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I think what he's trying to say there is that it would be inconcievable for society today to treat gay people and drug users as pariahs if AIDS was an emerging threat.

Then why is he speaking in the past tense like they werent when it did happen?


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Not sure I follow, the AIDS crisis was in fact in the past, hence the tense.

I'm not saying I agree with him (in fact i already explained how I don't agree with my interpretation), but even with your interpretation he's wrong, since anti-maskers are pariahs because they can easily spread COVID to other people without having sex or sharing a needle with them.

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Hes specially saying that gay people and drug users WERE NOT pariahs, to be dismissive of their plight to say the unvaccinated have it worse today than either of those groups ever did because of a disease

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No he isn't, because that's a factually incorrect statement that noone would believe.

Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Teachers are already one of the most overpaid, under worked professions out there. Seriously, you would never expect a group of barely educated people making a living explaining spelling and simple addition, with 3 months a year off, making a solid upper middle class wage, to be also the biggest group of crybabies in society

Ignoring everything else thats incredibly patronizing here, do you not believe teachers exist past like 2nd grade?


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Jakyl25 posted...

Ignoring everything else thats incredibly patronizing here, do you not believe teachers exist past like 2nd grade?

The bulk of teachers are at the elementary level, which means their jobs range from "colour this cat" to "this is the pythagorean theorum", which if you stop and think about it, anyone who passed elementary school is qualified to do. Then there's the whole "Waaaa I need to spend 20 minutes every day prepping for class" argument, when we all know they just use the same lesson plans year in and year out. Marking tests every teacher I ever had just did during class while assigning busywork to keep the kids occupied.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

No he isn't, because that's a factually incorrect statement that noone would believe.

Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity

Is that the motto by which we should interpret your posts?

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

The bulk of teachers are at the elementary level

How is this even mathematically possible

I guess youre slightly more likely to be dead by age 12 than by age 7 so there might be slightly more 2nd graders than 7th graders

But still the bulk?


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I'm missing a LOT of posts in this topic, and I'm guessing that's a good thing.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Teachers are already one of the most overpaid, under worked professions out there. Seriously, you would never expect a group of barely educated people making a living explaining spelling and simple addition, with 3 months a year off, making a solid upper middle class wage, to be also the biggest group of crybabies in society

So you did the smart thing and became a teacher... right? I mean they're overpaid and under worked/ Sounds like a perfect job!

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Dancedreamer posted...

I'm missing a LOT of posts in this topic, and I'm guessing that's a good thing.

it's incredible to see a bunch of missing posts around a post that feels it has to explain why dennis prager is wrong

Jakyl25 posted...

How is this even mathematically possible

I guess youre slightly more likely to be dead by age 12 than by age 7 so there might be slightly more 2nd graders than 7th graders

But still the bulk?

Statistically speaking, most students drop out of school by sixth grade to help their parents on their farms if you make the simple assumption BT is contacting us from the 17th century.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

The bulk of teachers are at the elementary level

Oh, I was mostly assuming anti-gay stuff, but sounds like this is dumb too. Nice to see people can be dumb about all kinds of things.

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Im gonna delete that post because even though its really funny, I dont think its fair to circumvent a block list post. My apologies.

Oh Im too late. Apologies regardless!

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it's not that big a deal

https://twitter.com/dannybarefoot/status/1457787561003212807?t=iqudTB96FZv8Wpj-iJ0Oqw&s=19
https://twitter.com/dannybarefoot/status/1457785356821032967?t=f_e66p9G4wPXdnJw4lRJfQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/dannybarefoot/status/1457777007131983876?t=ucIZDmlgz2equJokShmBmA&s=19

Again, as dumb as this stuff is, it also clearly shows that they think Dems are out of touch. It doesn't really matter how stupid you think the voters are - this is the exact suburban swing voter demographic that Democrats are trying to win and they failed. Dems want the stupid vote!

And Rock is right about the school thing. We went with such a half-assed measure that it's no wonder no one was happy with it.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

No he isn't, because that's a factually incorrect statement that noone would believe.

i think neither you nor jakyl is entirely correct about this tbqh. i don't think he's necessarily saying gay people and drug users weren't pariahs during the AIDS crisis, just that they weren't pariahs on the scale that the unvaccinated are pariahs now. hence why he says "he's never seen anything like this in his lifetime." this is a common sentiment among anti-vaxxers, and it's the reason why they throw around comparisons to world war II all the time.

that being said... plenty of people believe literally anything dennis prager says, no matter the stupidity. i've argued with smartmuffin for years so i would know.

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"They failed to win the stupid vote because they didn't capitulate on LGBTQ rights or social justice" is ok with me though. People deserve republicans then. "This group that stormed the capital and yelled JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US while carrying tiki torches are closer to my cultural values because sometimes the other side is mean to me on Twitter" well if people believe that than the US is lost anyway. You can say Dems are out of touch or are bad at branding themselves, but people believe what they want to believe. If Republicans have behaved the way they have behaved and said the things they said, and now democrats are going to lose votes because CRT is SCARY because "WE DON'T KNOW WHY BUT FOX NEWS SAID SO" then I don't think its worth our time trying to convince them otherwise. Enjoy your family and hobbies and try to get through the pendulum shift back to the right.

And yes the last five to six years have left me a very cynical bitter man, why do you ask?

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Basically turtle-up in a solid blue state and ride out the wave... likely a tsunami caused by global warming.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

"They failed to win the stupid vote because they didn't capitulate on LGBTQ rights or social justice" is ok with me though. People deserve republicans then. "This group that stormed the capital and yelled JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US while carrying tiki torches are closer to my cultural values because sometimes the other side is mean to me on Twitter" well if people believe that than the US is lost anyway. You can say Dems are out of touch or are bad at branding themselves, but people believe what they want to believe. If Republicans have behaved the way they have behaved and said the things they said, and now democrats are going to lose votes because CRT is SCARY because "WE DON'T KNOW WHY BUT FOX NEWS SAID SO" then I don't think its worth our time trying to convince them otherwise. Enjoy your family and hobbies and try to get through the pendulum shift back to the right.

And yes the last five to six years have left me a very cynical bitter man, why do you ask?

This is a big reason why I run my own business now to be honest. Fuck working for someone else, fuck depending on other people, I know what is right and what is wrong but I am not going to be dependent in any way on the whims of idiots.

A lot of people just... kind of suck. So I will let them suck after a certain point and enjoy my games and free time.

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Although my favorite part is "we want bipartisanship in Washington, there's too much in-fighting" then a bipartisan bill passes spearheaded by the Dems, and 91% go "who fucking cares?"

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

This is a big reason why I run my own business now to be honest. Fuck working for someone else, fuck depending on other people, I know what is right and what is wrong but I am not going to be dependent in any way on the whims of idiots.

A lot of people just... kind of suck. So I will let them suck after a certain point and enjoy my games and free time.

100%

I wish I was as optimistic as I used to be but I'm just not. I'll continue supporting politicians I like and voting for the lesser evil if needed, but I just don't have hope for people to not do something stupid when I've been given example after example of stupid people doing stupid things and then being rewarded for it. "A lot of people just kind of suck" is a great way to express my philosophy at the moment.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Although my favorite part is "we want bipartisanship in Washington, there's too much in-fighting" then a bipartisan bill passes spearheaded by the Dems, and 91% go "who fucking cares?"

Well yeah but why care about that when Elmo is trying to indoctrinate my kid into brushing his teeth?!?!

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tbf "a lot of people just kinda suck" has been very true throughout history

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GuessMyUserName posted...

tbf "a lot of people just kinda suck" has been very true throughout history

Yes, and it is why progress is naturally slow. Because over time people go "huh, this is kind of stupid we've been doing this forever guess we can stop and be a little bit better."

But it takes decades. And then I realize if I was a young man around the time of the revolutionary war I'd likely never know any country but one that enslaved people.

Like, I am not going to be around in 2100. And worrying about the slow progress of history is going to find me my grave sooner rather than later.

Some people are just too stupid to bother with, and when that amount of people is as high as it is... might as well just enjoy life, vent every now and again, and not be too bothered by people caring more about a baby sitter and less about hundreds of thousands dead lol

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Suprak the Stud posted...

"They failed to win the stupid vote because they didn't capitulate on LGBTQ rights or social justice" is ok with me though. People deserve republicans then. "This group that stormed the capital and yelled JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US while carrying tiki torches are closer to my cultural values because sometimes the other side is mean to me on Twitter" well if people believe that than the US is lost anyway. You can say Dems are out of touch or are bad at branding themselves, but people believe what they want to believe. If Republicans have behaved the way they have behaved and said the things they said, and now democrats are going to lose votes because CRT is SCARY because "WE DON'T KNOW WHY BUT FOX NEWS SAID SO" then I don't think its worth our time trying to convince them otherwise. Enjoy your family and hobbies and try to get through the pendulum shift back to the right.

And yes the last five to six years have left me a very cynical bitter man, why do you ask?

I'm talking about that it sounds like he ran an awkward campaign during an off-year and pissed off some people he shouldn't have. According to the thread, his attacks didn't land and he fumbled the messaging on education. And like...yeah. I agree that none of these CRT-fearing teacher union haters have a good enough grasp on education policy to be making the decisions on it. But if you're trying to get them to vote for you, you probably shouldn't tell them that...?

Frankly, I DON'T think people deserve republicans, that's why I can't get over shit like this. Democracy is dying and this is the best defence we can muster.

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kind of surprising that some of you have apparently only recently realized that "a lot of people kinda suck." i've known this for most of my life!

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes, and it is why progress is naturally slow. Because over time people go "huh, this is kind of stupid we've been doing this forever guess we can stop and be a little bit better."

But it takes decades. And then I realize if I was a young man around the time of the revolutionary war I'd likely never know any country but one that enslaved people.

Like, I am not going to be around in 2100. And worrying about the slow progress of history is going to find me my grave sooner rather than later.

Progress is slow in the long view of history. In the short term it's often sudden, violent, and not guaranteed to be good. I'm more worried about that sort of early grave, considering we are witnessing the rise of an American fascist movement and all. I'm just tired.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Frankly, I DON'T think people deserve republicans, that's why I can't get over shit like this. Democracy is dying and this is the best defence we can muster.

Democracy kind of blows. With the wage gap the way it is we will never get nice things because democracy doesn't work. I mean, it is preferable to the things Republicans are selling right now but the bar beyond that is kind of low.

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God King Bernie sounds nice.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Boy it's almost as if the left wanted to put together universal daycare programs so parents don't HAVE to choose between potentially killing their kids and going bankrupt.

But yeah, study after study shows that people do not vote on policy. If policy matter, like I said before poor urban black people and poor rural white people would be voting the exact same way.

Basically, people want universal Healthcare but only if a Republican puts it in place.

Yes, but I think the greatest downfall of the Democrats is they dont adjust policy based on reality.

Heavy lockdowns + universal daycare (That is somehow accessible) and subsidies probably would have gone over well.

Heavy Lockdowns alone has led to this deep unpopularity

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Every once in a while I look in incognito mode to see if I should make ignore list changes. This led to 2 important discoveries

1.Teachers are already one of the most overpaid, under worked professions out there. LMAO. No. My ignore list is still good
2. How the hell in the year 2021 does gamefaqs still default to 10 posts a page

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There's no way to provide universal accessible daycare during a pandemic. That's a non-starter. Like, if that's the solution then just keep the public schools open (but good luck finding teachers lmao)

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Kenri posted...

There's no way to provide universal accessible daycare during a pandemic. That's a non-starter. Like, if that's the solution then just keep the public schools open (but good luck finding teachers lmao)

Which is the real issue. I feel democrats dramatically underestimated the pain of the average American caused by lockdowns.

It kind of feels like a trolly problem, do you give up and let another couple hundred thousand people die if that is what the people want? Because you know if they have to vote in the people to make it happen it would be way worse


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masterplum posted...

Which is the real issue. I feel democrats dramatically underestimated the pain of the average American caused by lockdowns.

It kind of feels like a trolly problem, do you give up and let another couple hundred thousand people die if that is what the people want? Because you know if they have to vote in the people to make it happen it would be way worse

The whole point of having a representative democracy is that they make the right decision. Even if voters are too stupid to appreciate it.

Of all the stupid things the democratic party has done, being punished for a good one seems...well, it is what it is

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

The whole point of having a representative democracy is that they make the right decision. Even if voters are too stupid to appreciate it.

Of all the stupid things the democratic party has done, being punished for a good one seems...well, it is what it is

This is part of the reason I want to just throw my hands up in the air and go you get what you deserve. If the exit polls and these focus groups had shown people going democrats arent fulfilling enough of their campaign promises that would be one thing. But instead it is all democrats didnt say CRT is scary and they followed the advice of the CDC on school closures and masks and its likealright, Virginia, have fun with the Republicans rolling back any and all progress made over the past couple of years.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

This is part of the reason I want to just throw my hands up in the air and go you get what you deserve. If the exit polls and these focus groups had shown people going democrats arent fulfilling enough of their campaign promises that would be one thing. But instead it is all democrats didnt say CRT is scary and they followed the advice of the CDC on school closures and masks and its likealright, Virginia, have fun with the Republicans rolling back any and all progress made over the past couple of years.

I don't think they can roll back much, can they?

Democrats have the senate majority!

(in the state)

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Oh, sorry, youre right. Still, I wouldnt be hopeful they change course within the next couple or years.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't think they can roll back much, can they?

Democrats have the senate majority!

(in the state)

Which is part of the reason the Republican won. A decent percentage of the population is nervous about absolute control by one party regardless of the party.

I don't agree, but it's a common stance by centrists

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One thing I will say about this stuff is I think a lot of the stuff that they actually passed was popular there. They just kind of ran on the wrong issues and people are stupid.

I am not sure what type of mandate they would have to reverse everything. Maybe splitting hairs but the more I looked into the results the less I was... really worried?

Like yeah people are selfish but I found the broader results to not be actually terrible. Take the lumps and keep being true.

Also obviously I want so, so much more but the bill that passed is pretty good in a vacuum!

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/trump-johnny-mcentee-january-6-betrayal/620646/

Good article about the 29 year old who led a loyalty task force in the Trump administration, and how the team he led was just as petty and stupid as the president himself.

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Chris Sununu announced that hes running for re-election as NH governor in 2022 rather than Senate as many were speculating

Very good news for Dems chances of keeping the Senate

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

don't think they can roll back much, can they?

Democrats have the senate majority!

(in the state)

It probably does end up killing marijuana legalization. For some reason when they passed that they decided to wait to write the laws about how to actually sell it until next year.

Also, VA Senate is up for reelection in 2023 and I have no faith in Dems showing up for off-year elections as long as they still have the presidency. Especially since the state GOP won't be able to do anything too crazy before that.
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https://twitter.com/timkmak/status/1458055335558647815?t=K5gxoFkDeA9Ju45LJk1VvQ&s=19

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Democratic strategists are less than useless

With one exception: Georgia.

Fire everyone else. Clone the GA Dem Party/Activists/Strategists so they run every state.

https://twitter.com/GeorgiaDemocrat/status/1456365272202297353

For comparison, the GA GOP flipped only 6 seats.

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I dont think Georgia is cloneable.

I think its a unique state in the sense that while its a Southern state, its arguably the birthplace of civil rights while also a huge state for media/arts/culture, so its far more blue than the results of its elections (until recently).

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I dont think Georgia is cloneable.

I think its a unique state in the sense that while its a Southern state, its arguably the birthplace of civil rights while also a huge state for media/arts/culture, so its far more blue than the results of its elections (until recently).

I think most red states are more blue than the results of their elections but I do agree Georgia has unique reasons for being the closest.

I mean part of why I am so adamant that Dems suck strategically is that I live in Texas and directly saw the 2018 vs the 2020 elections. It's really clear there's a lot of structural and strategic issues with the party here, plus it doesn't help when Republicans control the state government and warp the election itself. Not to say all red states are as flippable as Georgia, but there's a model for improvement there that involves not getting smashed in local races.

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The real reason Georgia is turning blue is I live here now.

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