Poll of the Day > Do you have a problem with businesses requiring you to provide proof of

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UT1999 09/11/21 8:41:28 PM #1:	....vaccination? yes no unsure depends ....vaccination? - Results (149 votes) yes 22.82% (34 votes) 34 no 68.46% (102 votes) 102 unsure 2.68% (4 votes) 4 depends 6.04% (9 votes) 9 i mean if they check if you have that white card --- "Sometimes they even attack wounded foxes" <cite>UT1999 posted [p:957962304] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote> ....vaccination? yes no unsure depends Vote View Results ....vaccination? - Results (149 votes) yes 22.82% (34 votes) 34 no 68.46% (102 votes) 102 unsure 2.68% (4 votes) 4 depends 6.04% (9 votes) 9 Show Voting Form i mean if they check if you have that white card </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 09/11/21 8:44:30 PM #2:	I would if it happened since I don't have proof... I mean, I could go get it, or just get the shot for a third time cuz who cares... seems inconvenient You'd have to be below loser-tier to lie about getting vaccinated. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:957962379] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I would if it happened since I don't have proof... I mean, I could go get it, or just get the shot for a third time cuz who cares... seems inconvenient You'd have to be below loser-tier to lie about getting vaccinated. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 09/11/21 9:45:02 PM #3:	Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, fuck them -- my medical history is my business, and it's also showing identification in general (a request with some questionable legality). Of course, if it's jackbooted government demanding that businesses check, it's not the businesses' fault so I take less of an issue with it. Even if the government is fundamentally wrong, the law is the law and this isn't the forum to challenge it. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:957963936] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, fuck them -- my medical history is my business, and it's also showing identification in general (a request with some questionable legality). Of course, if it's jackbooted government demanding that businesses check, it's not the businesses' fault so I take less of an issue with it. Even if the government is fundamentally wrong, the law is the law and this isn't the forum to challenge it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ParanoidObsessive 09/11/21 9:54:44 PM #4:	I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place. Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing. --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:957964180] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place. Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BEERandWEED 09/11/21 9:58:29 PM #5:	Everybody should be. <cite>BEERandWEED posted [p:957964282] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Everybody should be. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Judgmenl 09/11/21 9:59:30 PM #6:	OK will just whip out my vaccination card. --- You're a regular Jack Kerouac Reality is fuarrked <cite>Judgmenl posted [p:957964306] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>OK will just whip out my vaccination card. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/11/21 11:08:34 PM #7:	Conceptually, no, but I do have concerns about how practical it is. Any system robust enough to stand any chance of preventing fraud is going to require additional infrastructure that many small businesses simply won't have the spare resources or manpower to implement. Make it simple enough that any business can check people's status without doing anything extra, and you'll get countless people printing off fake cards and rendering the whole thing useless. I'm also concerned about the risks such a system poses to the front-line workers responsible for enforcing it. We've already seen far too many instances of employees being assaulted or even killed for enforcing mask requirements, and I fully expect that to get worse as they try to enforce vaccine requirements. Zeus posted... Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, f* them -- my medical history is my business This seems like an absurd overreaction, given how trivial this particular bit of your medical history is. Yes, you have a right to dictate when and where it's disclosed, and that won't and shouldn't change, but the fundamental point of medical privacy laws is to prevent the disclosure of information that could cause embarrassment, danger, or other harm to the individual. So let's review the possible outcomes of businesses requesting vaccination status: You are vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are permitted to use the business freely You are vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You risk embarrassment, danger, or harm, and are not permitted to enter The only outcome in which you risk anything at all is if you tell the business you're unvaccinated (since that information could in fact be used to cause social and/or professional damage). Given that that will have exactly the same impact on your ability to use the business as simply refusing to disclose the information, however, there's no reason to take that risk. In the only scenario in which you have something worth hiding, you are free to keep it hidden with no additional penalty (if you even bother approaching them in the first place, which, realistically, you wouldn't). So... what's the problem? ParanoidObsessive posted... I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible a***s and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place. Mostly this. None of this would be necessary if people didn't just plain suck so goddamn much. All of the potential problems here - including the one such a system is fundamentally intended to solve - boil down to people being terrible and unwilling to put a basic modicum of effort into fixing this situation (and, in many cases, being more willing to put substantially more* effort into circumventing these measures out of nothing but petty spite). --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:957966136] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Conceptually, no, but I do have concerns about how practical it is. Any system robust enough to stand any chance of preventing fraud is going to require additional infrastructure that many small businesses simply won't have the spare resources or manpower to implement. Make it simple enough that any business can check people's status without doing anything extra, and you'll get countless people printing off fake cards and rendering the whole thing useless. I'm also concerned about the risks such a system poses to the front-line workers responsible for enforcing it. We've already seen far too many instances of employees being assaulted or even killed for enforcing mask requirements, and I fully expect that to get worse as they try to enforce vaccine requirements. Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, f* them -- my medical history is my business</quote> This seems like an absurd overreaction, given how trivial this particular bit of your medical history is. Yes, you have a right to dictate when and where it's disclosed, and that won't and shouldn't change, but the fundamental point of medical privacy laws is to prevent the disclosure of information that could cause embarrassment, danger, or other harm to the individual. So let's review the possible outcomes of businesses requesting vaccination status: You are vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are permitted to use the business freelyYou are vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enterYou are not vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enterYou are not vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You risk embarrassment, danger, or harm, and are not permitted to enter The only outcome in which you risk anything at all is if you tell the business you're unvaccinated (since that information could in fact be used to cause social and/or professional damage). Given that that will have exactly the same impact on your ability to use the business as simply refusing to disclose the information, however, there's no reason to take that risk. In the only scenario in which you have something worth hiding, you are free to keep it hidden with no additional penalty (if you even bother approaching them in the first place, which, realistically, you wouldn't). So... what's the problem? ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible a****s and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place.</quote> Mostly this. None of this would be necessary if people didn't just plain suck so goddamn much. All of the potential problems here - including the one such a system is fundamentally intended to solve - boil down to people being terrible and unwilling to put a basic modicum of effort into fixing this situation (and, in many cases, being more willing to put substantially more effort into circumventing these measures out of nothing but petty spite). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 09/12/21 5:48:48 AM #8:	Ideally there would be a digital system in place for this Scan a QR code or your gov id and get confirmation from a central record --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:957972602] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Ideally there would be a digital system in place for this Scan a QR code or your gov id and get confirmation from a central record </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 09/12/21 6:48:00 AM #9:	ParanoidObsessive posted... I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary . Which is a very fascist-friendly stance. ParanoidObsessive posted... Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing. A shitty claim that's been used to justify all kinds of horrific things throughout history. adjl posted... This seems like an absurd overreaction, given how trivial this particular bit of your medical history is. Yes, you have a right to dictate when and where it's disclosed, and that won't and shouldn't change, but the fundamental point of medical privacy laws is to prevent the disclosure of information that could cause embarrassment, danger, or other harm to the individual. So let's review the possible outcomes of businesses requesting vaccination status: You are vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are permitted to use the business freely You are vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You risk embarrassment, danger, or harm, and are not permitted to enter The only outcome in which you risk anything at all is if you tell the business you're unvaccinated (since that information could in fact be used to cause social and/or professional damage). Given that that will have exactly the same impact on your ability to use the business as simply refusing to disclose the information, however, there's no reason to take that risk. In the only scenario in which you have something worth hiding, you are free to keep it hidden with no additional penalty (if you even bother approaching them in the first place, which, realistically, you wouldn't). So... what's the problem? You aren't in a position to decide what is or isn't trivial about a person's medical history. Not from a medical aspect, not from a personal aspect. The fact that they're asking at all is a fundamental overreach and something we wouldn't tolerate in any other facet, even when there are arguably better reasons for asking for ID. And, contrary to your claims, the fact that you're vaccinated can ALSO have social or professional damage within certain contexts in at least some cases. (More often social than professional, although there are potential professional ramifications as well.) However, all of that is secondary compared to the fact they shouldn't under any circumstances be asking for your medical information. Even if the government orders them to, it's something businesses should be doing. It's fundamentally problematic. My medical history should be between me and my doctor, not every fucking business in my area. And the claim, "Oh, everybody else is doing it so it's okay!" isn't really an excuse, nor is your "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind being searched." --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:957973135] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary .</quote> Which is a very fascist-friendly stance. ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing.</quote> A shitty claim that's been used to justify all kinds of horrific things throughout history. adjl posted... </cite> <quote>This seems like an absurd overreaction, given how trivial this particular bit of your medical history is. Yes, you have a right to dictate when and where it's disclosed, and that won't and shouldn't change, but the fundamental point of medical privacy laws is to prevent the disclosure of information that could cause embarrassment, danger, or other harm to the individual. So let's review the possible outcomes of businesses requesting vaccination status: You are vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are permitted to use the business freely You are vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you refuse to provide that information to the business upon request: You suffer no embarrassment, danger, or other harm, and are not permitted to enter You are not vaccinated, and you provide that information to the business upon request: You risk embarrassment, danger, or harm, and are not permitted to enter The only outcome in which you risk anything at all is if you tell the business you're unvaccinated (since that information could in fact be used to cause social and/or professional damage). Given that that will have exactly the same impact on your ability to use the business as simply refusing to disclose the information, however, there's no reason to take that risk. In the only scenario in which you have something worth hiding, you are free to keep it hidden with no additional penalty (if you even bother approaching them in the first place, which, realistically, you wouldn't). So... what's the problem?</quote> You aren't in a position to decide what is or isn't trivial about a person's medical history. Not from a medical aspect, not from a personal aspect. The fact that they're asking at all is a fundamental overreach and something we wouldn't tolerate in any other facet, even when there are arguably better reasons for asking for ID. And, contrary to your claims, the fact that you're vaccinated can ALSO have social or professional damage within certain contexts in at least some cases. (More often social than professional, although there are potential professional ramifications as well.) However, all of that is secondary compared to the fact they shouldn't under any circumstances be asking for your medical information. Even if the government orders them to, it's something businesses should be doing. It's fundamentally problematic. My medical history should be between me and my doctor, not every fucking business in my area. And the claim, "Oh, everybody else is doing it so it's okay!" isn't really an excuse, nor is your "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind being searched." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 09/12/21 6:49:31 AM #10:	I dont like it but I dont have a problem with it given the current situation --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:957973146] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I dont like it but I dont have a problem with it given the current situation </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BUMPED2002 09/12/21 8:32:14 AM #11:	I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. If a doctor says you need a medical procedure or a certain type of medicine for an illness etc, that doctor can tell you what choices you have but ultimately it's up to you to decide. How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would. --- SpankageBros <cite>BUMPED2002 posted [p:957974281] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. If a doctor says you need a medical procedure or a certain type of medicine for an illness etc, that doctor can tell you what choices you have but ultimately it's up to you to decide. How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MagicalPrincess 09/12/21 8:41:58 AM #12:	They have no legal right to do that. --- I love Lord Jesus, Family Matters (for Steve & Laura which I typed up a beautiful alt from Just One Date episode) and FFIX (for Zidane & Garnet). <cite>MagicalPrincess posted [p:957974423] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>They have no legal right to do that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 09/12/21 9:07:25 AM #13:	Havent had it happen yet So not really sure. On the one hand, I am vaccinated and my card is in my vehicle. On the other hand, I almost never take it out of the car, and Im lazy enough to not want to go back to get it just enter somewhere Basically, if I have to go back to my car to get it, Ill probably just leave at that point Haha Clench281 posted... Ideally there would be a digital system in place for this Scan a QR code or your gov id and get confirmation from a central record Like every time you enter a place? --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:957974819] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Havent had it happen yet So not really sure. On the one hand, I am vaccinated and my card is in my vehicle. On the other hand, I almost never take it out of the car, and Im lazy enough to not want to go back to get it just enter somewhere Basically, if I have to go back to my car to get it, Ill probably just leave at that point Haha Clench281 posted...</cite> <quote>Ideally there would be a digital system in place for this Scan a QR code or your gov id and get confirmation from a central record </quote> Like every time you enter a place?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 09/12/21 9:13:30 AM #14:	BUMPED2002 posted... I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. This is true. And just like you are choosing whats best for you, those businesses are choosing whats best for themselves and their customers BUMPED2002 posted... How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would. Really? Barbers and doctors are very different. AFAIK, you dont have the same medical training a doctor does. Doctors are telling you whats best for you. You still have to decide because everything has different risk and cost, but they are giving you plenty of options. A barber is just giving you what you want. Hair isnt rarely a health concern unless hair issues like lice, or certain jobs where having longer hair could pose a danger (like getting stuck in something) That said, many people do ask their barber or hair stylist for advice, or to make it look good. Since they usually know what kind of style fits people --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:957974923] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>BUMPED2002 posted...</cite> <quote>I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses.</quote> This is true. And just like you are choosing whats best for you, those businesses are choosing whats best for themselves and their customers BUMPED2002 posted...</cite> <quote>How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would.</quote> Really? Barbers and doctors are very different. AFAIK, you dont have the same medical training a doctor does. Doctors are telling you whats best for you. You still have to decide because everything has different risk and cost, but they are giving you plenty of options. A barber is just giving you what you want. Hair isnt rarely a health concern unless hair issues like lice, or certain jobs where having longer hair could pose a danger (like getting stuck in something) That said, many people do ask their barber or hair stylist for advice, or to make it look good. Since they usually know what kind of style fits people</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KJ StErOiDs 09/12/21 9:19:15 AM #15:	No problem at all. As far as I care, businesses can set absolutely any rules they want as it pertains to their own stores. Requiring proof of vaccination would be on the logical side of that spectrum. --- A plethora of DKC-related fanart to numb your mind: http://kjsteroids.deviantart.com <cite>KJ StErOiDs posted [p:957975023] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>No problem at all. As far as I care, businesses can set absolutely any rules they want as it pertains to their own stores. Requiring proof of vaccination would be on the logical side of that spectrum. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
What_The_Chris 09/12/21 9:55:25 AM #16:	no, if they're happy with my showing them the QR on my phone. If they ask for a print, they can fuck off because it's stupid --- 2020 St. Louis Cardinals did alright <cite>What_The_Chris posted [p:957975602] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>no, if they're happy with my showing them the QR on my phone. If they ask for a print, they can fuck off because it's stupid </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowsword87 09/12/21 10:20:12 AM #17:	What_The_Chris posted... no, if they're happy with my showing them the QR on my phone. If they ask for a print, they can fuck off because it's stupid You're handed a vaccine card when you get vaccinated... <cite>shadowsword87 posted [p:957976079] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>What_The_Chris posted... </cite> <quote>no, if they're happy with my showing them the QR on my phone. If they ask for a print, they can fuck off because it's stupid</quote> You're handed a vaccine card when you get vaccinated... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 09/12/21 10:20:13 AM #18:	BUMPED2002 posted... I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. If a doctor says you need a medical procedure or a certain type of medicine for an illness etc, that doctor can tell you what choices you have but ultimately it's up to you to decide. How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would. stop being so fucking selfish --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:957976080] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. If a doctor says you need a medical procedure or a certain type of medicine for an illness etc, that doctor can tell you what choices you have but ultimately it's up to you to decide. How often do we allow our barbers to tell us what kind of haircut to get? Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would.</quote> stop being so fucking selfish </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 09/12/21 10:47:56 AM #19:	LinkPizza posted... Like every time you enter a place? I already have to scan my gym membership barcode when I go in, and that takes essentially one second of my time. --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:957976657] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Like every time you enter a place?</quote> I already have to scan my gym membership barcode when I go in, and that takes essentially one second of my time. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 09/12/21 10:50:02 AM #20:	BUMPED2002 posted... I just won't be visiting any of those businesses Thank God. You can stay home and keep yourself removed from society while the rest of us can move on. --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:957976704] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>I just won't be visiting any of those businesses</quote> Thank God. You can stay home and keep yourself removed from society while the rest of us can move on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 09/12/21 10:55:43 AM #21:	Zeus posted... it's something businesses should be doing. Thanks for agreeing. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:957976810] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>it's something businesses should be doing. </quote> Thanks for agreeing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 09/12/21 11:17:23 AM #22:	Clench281 posted... I already have to scan my gym membership barcode when I go in, and that takes essentially one second of my time. Maybe for a gym. For higher traffic areas, itll cause a useless line --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:957977242] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Clench281 posted...</cite> <quote>I already have to scan my gym membership barcode when I go in, and that takes essentially one second of my time.</quote> Maybe for a gym. For higher traffic areas, itll cause a useless line</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cruddy_horse 09/12/21 12:52:29 PM #23:	My Card doesn't even fit in my wallet so I never have it. Also arn't these things easily faked? I mean mine is just the date I got the Vaccines, if someone got a blank one they could just write on it. <cite>Cruddy_horse posted [p:957979490] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>My Card doesn't even fit in my wallet so I never have it. Also arn't these things easily faked? I mean mine is just the date I got the Vaccines, if someone got a blank one they could just write on it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JixHedgehog 09/12/21 12:54:53 PM #24:	I have yet to experience being stopped and asked My vaccination card has yet to be moved from my cars glovebox.. --- "No." Joe Biden's response when asked if the US Afghanistan withdrawal could've been handled better in any way. <cite>JixHedgehog posted [p:957979550] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I have yet to experience being stopped and asked My vaccination card has yet to be moved from my cars glovebox.. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/12/21 1:31:21 PM #25:	Zeus posted... You aren't in a position to decide what is or isn't trivial about a person's medical history. Not from a medical aspect, not from a personal aspect. You, however, are in a position to decide that about your medical history. So I ask you: How is being vaccinated not a trivial piece of medical information? What practical harm can arise from disclosing the fact that you have been vaccinated that would warrant placing it on a pedestal above any other experience or personal trait? Moreover, nobody is losing the right to decide for themselves whether or not to disclose their medical history. All businesses can do is ask; they're not forcibly taking the information from you. If you don't want to share it, you retain the right to keep it to yourself. You just shouldn't expect to be able to access privileges that require you to share it, a requirement for which there is ample precedent. BUMPED2002 posted... getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. When it starts to become a question of what's best for those around you, however, it stops being entirely your decision. This is not a matter of "get vaccinated so you don't get sick," this is a matter of "get vaccinated so everyone doesn't get sick," and it absolutely is up to the government to decide what's best in that regard. If the decision you want to make for yourself goes against the decision the government has to make for the good of everyone else, expect there to be consequences to protect the rest of society from your mistake. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:957980683] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>You aren't in a position to decide what is or isn't trivial about a person's medical history. Not from a medical aspect, not from a personal aspect.</quote> You, however, are in a position to decide that about your medical history. So I ask you: How is being vaccinated not a trivial piece of medical information? What practical harm can arise from disclosing the fact that you have been vaccinated that would warrant placing it on a pedestal above any other experience or personal trait? Moreover, nobody is losing the right to decide for themselves whether or not to disclose their medical history. All businesses can do is ask; they're not forcibly taking the information from you. If you don't want to share it, you retain the right to keep it to yourself. You just shouldn't expect to be able to access privileges that require you to share it, a requirement for which there is ample precedent. BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses.</quote> When it starts to become a question of what's best for those around you, however, it stops being entirely your decision. This is not a matter of "get vaccinated so you don't get sick," this is a matter of "get vaccinated so everyone doesn't get sick," and it absolutely is up to the government to decide what's best in that regard. If the decision you want to make for yourself goes against the decision the government has to make for the good of everyone else, expect there to be consequences to protect the rest of society from your mistake. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
__starsnostars 09/12/21 1:47:24 PM #26:	I have season tickets and in order to get into the stadium I need to be wearing a mask, have proof of being fully vaccinated, and have photo ID (I'm assuming to confirm the proof of vaccination is mine). I don't have any issues with any of this. If these common sense safety measures weren't in place I would more than likely cancel my tickets. --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0 Please consider adopting a cat from your SPCA or local animal shelter. <cite>__starsnostars posted [p:957981151] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I have season tickets and in order to get into the stadium I need to be wearing a mask, have proof of being fully vaccinated, and have photo ID (I'm assuming to confirm the proof of vaccination is mine). I don't have any issues with any of this. If these common sense safety measures weren't in place I would more than likely cancel my tickets. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/12/21 2:02:42 PM #27:	Clench281 posted... Thank God. You can stay home and keep yourself removed from society while the rest of us can move on. I don't think these people have realized that "fine, I'll just stay home" isn't exactly a downside for those of us that are actually contributing to solving the problem. We're all trying to get back to normal, and excluding the people that are actively working against that is something we've been hoping we could do since day one. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:957981634] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Clench281 posted... </cite> <quote>Thank God. You can stay home and keep yourself removed from society while the rest of us can move on. </quote> I don't think these people have realized that "fine, I'll just stay home" isn't exactly a downside for those of us that are actually contributing to solving the problem. We're all trying to get back to normal, and excluding the people that are actively working against that is something we've been hoping we could do since day one. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 09/12/21 2:16:07 PM #28:	Cruddy_horse posted... My Card doesn't even fit in my wallet so I never have it. This is the main problem, tbh --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:957982066] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Cruddy_horse posted...</cite> <quote>My Card doesn't even fit in my wallet so I never have it.</quote> This is the main problem, tbh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 09/12/21 2:26:27 PM #29:	ParanoidObsessive posted... I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place. Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing. This exactly. I have reservations about essentially forcing people to disclose medical history, but there are plain and present reasons why this is necessary right now, all of which have to do with morons that don't understand science. It's ridiculous that we have to do this... but we do have to do it. Zeus posted... A shitty claim that's been used to justify all kinds of horrific things throughout history. Fortunately, this isn't a horrific thing, so trying to tie it to any historical event like this is just dishonest scaremongering. BUMPED2002 posted... I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses. The government and those businesses aren't making your healthcare decisions for you; they're simply saying that if you are a health risk, you are not welcome inside. You are free to refuse the vaccine all you like, but - like many medical decisions - your choice will have consequences that you will need to be prepared to own. I will, however, point out that the decision not to get vaccinated affects more than just yourself; as such, the government and society at large does have a vested interest in your decision. Zeus posted... The fact that they're asking at all is a fundamental overreach and something we wouldn't tolerate in any other facet This is factually wrong. You want a driver's license or to work in a safety-sensitive job? You'll need to pass an eye exam and prove that you do not pose a risk to others. Want to fly a plane? You'll need a medical every few years (increasing to every year as you get older) certifying that you do not have any medical conditions that would make you unsafe to fly. Want to participate in vigorous or dangerous physical activities? Frequently the waiver you sign will include a clause where you attest that you have no serious medical conditions that could be aggravated by the activity in question. Governments and businesses can and do absolutely ask about certain elements of your medical history when there is a clear and pressing need for them to do so, because the information is critical to the safety of yourself or others. This is no different. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:957982436] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>ParanoidObsessive posted... </cite> <quote>I have more of a problem with the fact that we live in a world where irresponsible assholes and idiots have made it necessary to ask for proof of vaccination in the first place. Until people grow the fuck up and learn to be better humans, they kind of forfeit the right to complain when the system tries to force them to do the right thing.</quote>This exactly. I have reservations about essentially forcing people to disclose medical history, but there are plain and present reasons why this is necessary right now, all of which have to do with morons that don't understand science. It's ridiculous that we have to do this... but we do have to do it. Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>A shitty claim that's been used to justify all kinds of horrific things throughout history.</quote>Fortunately, this isn't a horrific thing, so trying to tie it to any historical event like this is just dishonest scaremongering. BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>I just won't be visiting any of those businesses because getting a vaccine is like any other medical or health decision we have to make from time to time and it's up to us to decide what's best for us on an individual basis, not the government and not any businesses.</quote>The government and those businesses aren't making your healthcare decisions for you; they're simply saying that if you are a health risk, you are not welcome inside. You are free to refuse the vaccine all you like, but - like many medical decisions - your choice will have consequences that you will need to be prepared to own. I will, however, point out that the decision not to get vaccinated affects more than just yourself; as such, the government and society at large does have a vested interest in your decision. Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>The fact that they're asking at all is a fundamental overreach and something we wouldn't tolerate in any other facet</quote>This is factually wrong. You want a driver's license or to work in a safety-sensitive job? You'll need to pass an eye exam and prove that you do not pose a risk to others. Want to fly a plane? You'll need a medical every few years (increasing to every year as you get older) certifying that you do not have any medical conditions that would make you unsafe to fly. Want to participate in vigorous or dangerous physical activities? Frequently the waiver you sign will include a clause where you attest that you have no serious medical conditions that could be aggravated by the activity in question. Governments and businesses can and do absolutely ask about certain elements of your medical history when there is a clear and pressing need for them to do so, because the information is critical to the safety of yourself or others. This is no different. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SunWuKung420 09/12/21 2:46:12 PM #30:	darkknight109 posted... This is no different. Umm, if a pilot has an undiagnosed medical condition that can lead to a stroke or heart attack, and has am event while piloting, the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%. If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate. There is no need to require proof unless the vaccinated are still unsure the vaccine gave them that extra 0.1% advantage. Or we could stop being fearmongered. --- My theme song - https://youtu.be/uYjM-BuE3Cs <cite>SunWuKung420 posted [p:957983020] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>darkknight109 posted... </cite> <quote>This is no different.</quote>Umm, if a pilot has an undiagnosed medical condition that can lead to a stroke or heart attack, and has am event while piloting, the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%. If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate. There is no need to require proof unless the vaccinated are still unsure the vaccine gave them that extra 0.1% advantage. Or we could stop being fearmongered. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Cruddy_horse 09/12/21 2:58:08 PM #32:	I love how conservatives will profess that every business has the right to not serve gay people but as soon as they get refused for not getting a vaccine they're "being oppressed" and still dont get it. The mental gymnastics required to be a conservative is astounding. Inb4 "it's not tHe sAmE!" <cite>Cruddy_horse posted [p:957983382] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I love how conservatives will profess that every business has the right to not serve gay people but as soon as they get refused for not getting a vaccine they're "being oppressed" and still dont get it. The mental gymnastics required to be a conservative is astounding. Inb4 "it's not tHe sAmE!" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 09/12/21 3:01:24 PM #33:	But they're hurting the wrong people! --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:957983503] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>But they're hurting the wrong people! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/12/21 4:35:47 PM #34:	SunWuKung420 posted... If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate. Oh look, statistics! I'm sure you have a robust, reputable source for those figures, which you'll definitely be providing shortly to prove that you aren't just making up numbers that roughly fit the narrative you're trying to push. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:957986609] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>SunWuKung420 posted... </cite> <quote>If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate.</quote> Oh look, statistics! I'm sure you have a robust, reputable source for those figures, which you'll definitely be providing shortly to prove that you aren't just making up numbers that roughly fit the narrative you're trying to push. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kanatteru 09/12/21 6:10:31 PM #35:	where i am, the vaccine passport is tied to your health card information, so it's already pulling from an existing database. that seems fine to me if i had to carry around a paper thing that would be annoying, although i think those will be accepted until the app comes out --- despair-inducing \| she/her <cite>Kanatteru posted [p:957989679] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>where i am, the vaccine passport is tied to your health card information, so it's already pulling from an existing database. that seems fine to me if i had to carry around a paper thing that would be annoying, although i think those will be accepted until the app comes out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 09/12/21 6:12:02 PM #36:	I have a bigger problem with them requiring drug tests --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:957989726] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>I have a bigger problem with them requiring drug tests </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zareth 09/12/21 6:41:08 PM #37:	Zeus posted... Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, fuck them -- my medical history is my business So if you have a highly contagious disease that could put other customers and employees at risk, you should be allowed in without letting them know? --- In my opinion, all slavery is wrong, even the really fancy kind - Mead <cite>Zareth posted [p:957990798] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>Businesses doing it on their own? Yes, fuck them -- my medical history is my business</quote>So if you have a highly contagious disease that could put other customers and employees at risk, you should be allowed in without letting them know? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RosiePowers 09/12/21 7:08:59 PM #38:	Leave big brother out of people's medical history. <cite>RosiePowers posted [p:957991745] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Leave big brother out of people's medical history. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Krazy_Kirby 09/12/21 7:16:53 PM #39:	Zareth posted... So if you have a highly contagious disease that could put other customers and employees at risk, you should be allowed in without letting them know? that could have happened before this --- Kill From The Shadows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot <cite>Krazy_Kirby posted [p:957992017] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Zareth posted...</cite> <quote> So if you have a highly contagious disease that could put other customers and employees at risk, you should be allowed in without letting them know? </quote> that could have happened before this</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/12/21 7:21:27 PM #40:	Krazy_Kirby posted... that could have happened before this Would you like to compare the odds? --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:957992177] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Krazy_Kirby posted... </cite> <quote>that could have happened before this</quote> Would you like to compare the odds? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GanonsSpirit 09/12/21 7:49:07 PM #41:	What a surprise, the shittiest people on PotD are spouting their shitty opinions. Who could have seen this coming? --- https://imgur.com/tsQUpxC Thanks, Nade Duck! [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] <cite>GanonsSpirit posted [p:957993071] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>What a surprise, the shittiest people on PotD are spouting their shitty opinions. Who could have seen this coming?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 09/13/21 4:33:51 AM #42:	SunWuKung420 posted... Umm, if a pilot has an undiagnosed medical condition that can lead to a stroke or heart attack, and has am event while piloting, the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%. If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate. There is no need to require proof unless the vaccinated are still unsure the vaccine gave them that extra 0.1% advantage. Or we could stop being fearmongered. Ignoring the fact that your numbers are both wrong (the overall survival rate for COVID is 98.2%) and misleading (the vaccine reduces your chances of infection by about 90% and your chances of hospitalization and death by over 95%, which has the combined effect of making the overwhelming majority of COVID deaths - as in, over 95% since vaccinations became widespread - be amongst the unvaccinated), let's dig into this a little more, shall we? If pilots had a 99% survival rate while flying their planes, every major airport in the world would be having multiple plane crashes every day. The bigger ones would be having double-digit crashes every single day. Would you fly under those circumstances? Or let's say that terrorists struck your country and every time there was a sports game, they detonated a bomb in the arena that killed a few hundred people. Would you think to yourself, "Well, 99% of them made it out, so no big deal."? Of course you wouldn't. No one would find those situations acceptable - in the first every air fleet would be grounded until massive safety overhauls could be implemented and in the second there would be a massive manhunt for the terrorists responsible, potentially coupled with security lockdowns until the threat had been neutralized. That's what this vaunted "99% survival rate" you're tossing about actually translated to in a large population: millions dead and needlessly so. Except it's even worse because those who die use up hospital space and medical resources on their way out, preventing others who aren't anti-vaxx dipshits from accessing medical care for situations that were beyond their control. I have a doctor in my family who lives in the US and the other day one of his patients with a serious brain tumour got his surgery pushed back because there's no space in the hospital he was supposed to have the operation at. This continued "who cares about the pandemic" bullshit is nonsense and it's selfish nonsense at that. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:958003503] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>SunWuKung420 posted... </cite> <quote>Umm, if a pilot has an undiagnosed medical condition that can lead to a stroke or heart attack, and has am event while piloting, the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%. If someone is exposed to covid without a vaccine, they have 99% survival rate. If a vaccinated person is exposed to covid, they have a 99.1% survival rate. There is no need to require proof unless the vaccinated are still unsure the vaccine gave them that extra 0.1% advantage. Or we could stop being fearmongered.</quote>Ignoring the fact that your numbers are both wrong (the overall survival rate for COVID is 98.2%) and misleading (the vaccine reduces your chances of infection by about 90% and your chances of hospitalization and death by over 95%, which has the combined effect of making the overwhelming majority of COVID deaths - as in, over 95% since vaccinations became widespread - be amongst the unvaccinated), let's dig into this a little more, shall we? If pilots had a 99% survival rate while flying their planes, every major airport in the world would be having multiple plane crashes every day. The bigger ones would be having double-digit crashes every single day. Would you fly under those circumstances? Or let's say that terrorists struck your country and every time there was a sports game, they detonated a bomb in the arena that killed a few hundred people. Would you think to yourself, "Well, 99% of them made it out, so no big deal."? Of course you wouldn't. No one would find those situations acceptable - in the first every air fleet would be grounded until massive safety overhauls could be implemented and in the second there would be a massive manhunt for the terrorists responsible, potentially coupled with security lockdowns until the threat had been neutralized. That's what this vaunted "99% survival rate" you're tossing about actually translated to in a large population: millions dead and needlessly so. Except it's even worse because those who die use up hospital space and medical resources on their way out, preventing others who aren't anti-vaxx dipshits from accessing medical care for situations that were beyond their control. I have a doctor in my family who lives in the US and the other day one of his patients with a serious brain tumour got his surgery pushed back because there's no space in the hospital he was supposed to have the operation at. This continued "who cares about the pandemic" bullshit is nonsense and it's selfish nonsense at that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
helIy 09/13/21 5:15:47 AM #43:	BUMPED2002 posted... Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would. no, i would he knows hair, it's his job. and i also already do this. --- my delusion is better than facing the truth about me <cite>helIy posted [p:958003947] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>Now I know that's trivial but would you want your barber telling you what he/she thought the best haircut for you was. I don't think you would.</quote>no, i would he knows hair, it's his job. and i also already do this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
helIy 09/13/21 5:18:54 AM #44:	SunWuKung420 posted... Or we could stop being fearmongered the only people being fearmongered are the unvaccinated morons who think the vaccine is full of microchips because a vaccinated guy on television said it was. --- my delusion is better than facing the truth about me <cite>helIy posted [p:958003981] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>SunWuKung420 posted... </cite> <quote>Or we could stop being fearmongered</quote>the only people being fearmongered are the unvaccinated morons who think the vaccine is full of microchips because a vaccinated guy on television said it was. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/13/21 9:41:35 AM #45:	helIy posted... no, i would he knows hair, it's his job. and i also already do this. Eh, he's worded it awkwardly, but I understand the point he's trying to make. He's not saying your barber shouldn't offer you advice, he's saying your barber should let you choose whether or not to take that advice. Which is fair. Of course, like pretty much every "personal choice" argument people try to make in this regard, that analogy works solely from a personal health perspective and completely ignores the critical public health angle that is (and has to be) driving policies, so it's a pretty useless analogy. The point he's trying to make is still valid, though. Just not applicable. darkknight109 posted... That's what this vaunted "99% survival rate" you're tossing about actually translated to in a large population: millions dead and needlessly so. Yep. When people cite Covid's mortality rate in a vacuum and ignore how incredibly fast it's spreading and how many people it has killed and will continue to kill in spite of its low mortality rate, what they're actually saying is "I probably won't die and I don't care about the rest of you losers." They're also grossly underestimating just how unacceptably high a 1% chance of dying is, given the magnitude of that risk. If people had a 1% chance of dying every week, only 1 in every 200 people would make it to the age of 10. Risks that high are absolutely worth avoiding (would you be willing to play a game in which you rolled 3d6 and had to kill yourself if you rolled three 1's? That's a 0.46% chance of dying). Literally every system that has the capacity to reduce the risk of death far below that will do so, and systems which cannot are generally not permitted to exist. The vast majority of people do not encounter anything in their day-to-day lives with a 1% chance of killing them. Perhaps more personally, @SunWuKung420 , you have explicitly admitted to having contracted Covid (confirmed via an antibody test, which he believes is better than the vaccine because he loves humping the naturalistic fallacy even in the face of actual data indicating that recovered people still benefit significantly from being vaccinated). You have also explicitly admitted to eschewing protection protocols such as masks and distancing in your professional life. That means that, for the two-week period after you became infected, you were freely exposing every one of your coworkers and every one of your customers to Covid. If you believe that there is a 99% chance of surviving that Covid exposure, then you believe that you killed 1% of those people. Do you really think that's something you can trivialize? --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:958007547] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>helIy posted... </cite> <quote>no, i would he knows hair, it's his job. and i also already do this.</quote> Eh, he's worded it awkwardly, but I understand the point he's trying to make. He's not saying your barber shouldn't offer you advice, he's saying your barber should let you choose whether or not to take that advice. Which is fair. Of course, like pretty much every "personal choice" argument people try to make in this regard, that analogy works solely from a personal health perspective and completely ignores the critical public health angle that is (and has to be) driving policies, so it's a pretty useless analogy. The point he's trying to make is still valid, though. Just not applicable. darkknight109 posted... </cite> <quote>That's what this vaunted "99% survival rate" you're tossing about actually translated to in a large population: millions dead and needlessly so.</quote> Yep. When people cite Covid's mortality rate in a vacuum and ignore how incredibly fast it's spreading and how many people it has killed and will continue to kill in spite of its low mortality rate, what they're actually saying is "I probably won't die and I don't care about the rest of you losers." They're also grossly underestimating just how unacceptably high a 1% chance of dying is, given the magnitude of that risk. If people had a 1% chance of dying every week, only 1 in every 200 people would make it to the age of 10. Risks that high are absolutely worth avoiding (would you be willing to play a game in which you rolled 3d6 and had to kill yourself if you rolled three 1's? That's a 0.46% chance of dying). Literally every system that has the capacity to reduce the risk of death far below that will do so, and systems which cannot are generally not permitted to exist. The vast majority of people do not encounter anything in their day-to-day lives with a 1% chance of killing them. Perhaps more personally, @SunWuKung420 , you have explicitly admitted to having contracted Covid (confirmed via an antibody test, which he believes is better than the vaccine because he loves humping the naturalistic fallacy even in the face of actual data indicating that recovered people still benefit significantly from being vaccinated). You have also explicitly admitted to eschewing protection protocols such as masks and distancing in your professional life. That means that, for the two-week period after you became infected, you were freely exposing every one of your coworkers and every one of your customers to Covid. If you believe that there is a 99% chance of surviving that Covid exposure, then you believe that you killed 1% of those people. Do you really think that's something you can trivialize? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 09/13/21 11:32:29 AM #46:	SunWuKung420 posted... the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%. Whoa. Planes can crash multiple times!? --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:958010268] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>SunWuKung420 posted...</cite> <quote>the crashes of surviving that plane crash is less than 1%.</quote> Whoa. Planes can crash multiple times!?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/13/21 11:33:25 AM #47:	Revelation34 posted... Whoa. Planes can crash multiple times!? I think you need to go back and rethink this post. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:958010301] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Revelation34 posted... </cite> <quote>Whoa. Planes can crash multiple times!?</quote> I think you need to go back and rethink this post. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EvilMegas 09/13/21 11:59:37 AM #48:	You guys should just comply like you always say when the police stop people. The business is the authority in this situation. --- The first person to be fully vaccinated on GameFaQs. Boobs are life, ass is hometown Kenichiro Takaki. <cite>EvilMegas posted [p:958010961] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>You guys should just comply like you always say when the police stop people. The business is the authority in this situation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ogurisama 09/13/21 12:06:26 PM #49:	adjl posted... They're also grossly underestimating just how unacceptably high a 1% chance of dying is, given the magnitude of that risk. If people had a 1% chance of dying every week, only 1 in every 200 people would make it to the age of 10. Risks that high are absolutely worth avoiding (would you be willing to play a game in which you rolled 3d6 and had to kill yourself if you rolled three 1's? That's a 0.46% chance of dying). Literally every system that has the capacity to reduce the risk of death far below that will do so, and systems which cannot are generally not permitted to exist. The vast majority of people do not encounter anything in their day-to-day lives with a 1% chance of killing them. And on that, the "1%" is with the intervention of hospitals, which have been having issues at being close, at, or over capacity now. If Hospitals werent around, or people couldnt check in, we could be upwards 5-10% most likely. But with the vaccine, it would be below the 1% chance most likely. --- http://cdn-android.apptap.com/img/870/mobi.colortrilogy.bitlink/267135850.png https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/10/5/uv4r7nGyrE6ylt2lHGWpiQ2.gif <cite>Ogurisama posted [p:958011117] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted... </cite> <quote>They're also grossly underestimating just how unacceptably high a 1% chance of dying is, given the magnitude of that risk. If people had a 1% chance of dying every week, only 1 in every 200 people would make it to the age of 10. Risks that high are absolutely worth avoiding (would you be willing to play a game in which you rolled 3d6 and had to kill yourself if you rolled three 1's? That's a 0.46% chance of dying). Literally every system that has the capacity to reduce the risk of death far below that will do so, and systems which cannot are generally not permitted to exist. The vast majority of people do not encounter anything in their day-to-day lives with a 1% chance of killing them.</quote>And on that, the "1%" is with the intervention of hospitals, which have been having issues at being close, at, or over capacity now. If Hospitals werent around, or people couldnt check in, we could be upwards 5-10% most likely. But with the vaccine, it would be below the 1% chance most likely. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 09/13/21 12:21:46 PM #50:	Ogurisama posted... And on that, the "1%" is with the intervention of hospitals, which have been having issues at being close, at, or over capacity now. If Hospitals werent around, or people couldnt check in, we could be upwards 5-10% most likely. But with the vaccine, it would be below the 1% chance most likely. The chance of death after being vaccinated is incredibly remote. Literally 0.1% of the Americans dying of Covid now are vaccinated, and given that the split is roughly a convenient 50/50 vaccinated/unvaccinated, that makes for some very easy math to determine the relative risk of death (~1000 times lower). For the vaccinated, that 1% is more like 0.001% (1 in 100,000), or about 5 times higher than the risk of dying while skydiving or bungee jumping. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:958011508] in Do you hav... [t:79657045]...</cite> <quote>Ogurisama posted... </cite> <quote>And on that, the "1%" is with the intervention of hospitals, which have been having issues at being close, at, or over capacity now. If Hospitals werent around, or people couldnt check in, we could be upwards 5-10% most likely. But with the vaccine, it would be below the 1% chance most likely.</quote> The chance of death after being vaccinated is incredibly remote. Literally 0.1% of the Americans dying of Covid now are vaccinated, and given that the split is roughly a convenient 50/50 vaccinated/unvaccinated, that makes for some very easy math to determine the relative risk of death (~1000 times lower). For the vaccinated, that 1% is more like 0.001% (1 in 100,000), or about 5 times higher than the risk of dying while skydiving or bungee jumping. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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