Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks: Westerns! The Official Results Topic

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#22. McLintock! 137 points

Stifled 10
Pokewars 11
Karo 19
Inviso 21
CoolCly 22
KBM 24
Johnbobb 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
A slice of life western tale with brawls, spankings, drinking, and heifers.

Why it was included:
McLintock was a turning point in the career of John Wayne. While he was a huge star by this point, he had very little creative control over his films. This time, he was heavily involved in writing the script, hired key personnel (including the director), and even brought his sons into the fold for both production and starring roles. If youve ever wanted to see John Wayne really put himself on screen, here you go, for better or worse. You may be surprised to learn the script reflects his opinions on the mistreatment of Native Americans in western films as well as his views on political corruption and abusive marriages. Loosely using Taming of the Shrew as inspiration and keeping a good sense of humor about it, McLintock definitely addresses those issues on the screen. Its up to the viewer to decide what the film is actually trying to say. Those kinds of discussions always make a movie more interesting, in my opinion. Naturally, I feel such a movie belongs on this list.

What Stifled thinks:
If memory serves, this was the first western I ever watched from beginning to end. As a kid, my grandfather frequently had classic movies on the TV, especially westerns. I didnt often pay attention for the whole movie, but I vividly remember parts of a number of them. McLintock, however, grabbed my kid brains attention because of how fast paced it is. Indeed, the film is pretty relentless going from point A to point B and I loved it. The brawls, the drunken shenanigans, the music, and the interesting, animated characters made this a joy to watch. Even the one-off side characters left an impression. Has anything changed for me since then? Not at all. In fact, now that I can appreciate some of the other things going on with the film that I missed or didnt understand as a kid, I like it even more.

See, what makes this really unique compared to a lot of other westerns is how the Natives were treated. John Waynes character, George Washington McLintock (talk about some lofty goals his parents had) actually shows a great respect for the Comanche Indians he interacts with. They began as enemies, but developed a mutual respect for each other through battle. In their time of need, GW actually steps up and defends them against the crooked governor. This kind of nuance takes what could have been a simple comedy and elevates it. However, I think the nuance takes a nosedive in the other issue John Wayne was addressing in the script; abusive marriages. You could argue he was attempting to make abusive husbands such an over-the-top caricature that one would agree the practice is stupid and needs to be stopped. But umI dont think so. Female empowerment is treated like a nuisance that needs to be dealt with. The multiple spanking scenes are treated as both a solution and a laugh as opposed to something mocked. I dunno manits either a swing and a miss on the execution, or there was no pitch to begin with. But hey, thats something each viewer can decide on their own. As for me, I think its a shame things went that way, but it does not change my opinion of McLintock. Since my childhood, it has been one of my favorite movies.
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Poke: A western that proves you dont need gratuitous violence to still be entertaining. This was a hootenanny of a film. Made me laugh, made me appreciate the characters. John Wayne is a boss as always.

Karo: The tale of the wild west's most dysfunctional family, a stubborn cattle baron named McLintock and his stuck-up and argumentative wife.
The film almost seems to be lending a sympathetic ear to the plight of the indians, but all woke cred is quickly revoked with the appearance of McLintock's cook/housepet, a chinaman who is portrayed as this subhuman little gremlin who can barely speak and threatens ritual suicide if he doesnt get his way. Sigh.
There is an interesting dynamic between the two main characters, but unfortunately one of them is John Wayne, whose acting is as exciting as driving a cement mixer. The story starts to drag on with not a whole lot happening and begins to devolve into silliness that isnt really that funny. There is not really any point to anything that doesnt involve McLintock's relationship, and the movie seems to be two hours long just for the hell of it.

Inviso: Im sad that I have to rank this as high as I am (which might still be low, but its in the top half after watching eight of these movies), because its not good. The film is allegedly a comedy, yet its runtime is over two hours. And that can work if the comedy exists. But the vast majority of the comedy, in the mind of the scriptwriter/s, is John Wayne is a mans man and a badass, and its amusing to have all these whiny women and wimpy men around him for him to dunk on throughout the entire film. Im sorry, but John Wayne comes across as perfect in every way in this movie. Hes tough, he rarely shows negative emotion (aside from the ending sequence which came after FAR too long of a film), everyone loves him except the people who get completely clowned, hes woke when it comes to the plight of the Native Americans, and he gets the girl at the end despite his brutish behavior (by physically assaulting her in public). Sadly, this was STILL more enjoyable than several films Ive already watched, by sheer virtue of being a comedy and therefore having a pulse through its lengthy runtime.

CoolCly: I am deeply convinced my dad modeled his personality entirely on John Wayne in this movie.
Some of this movie is actually really fun seeing the family dynamics and shenanigans they all get into. It was interesting that this has a lot more of a respectful view on the Comanche than all the previous films did.
But the daughters romance is cringe, the exica plot goes nowhere, and man the resolution of the divorce was really bad.
I felt like we were headed for genuine relationship work, but then people just tell McLintock to beat his wife and he chases her through the city. Garbage ending imo.
4.2/10

KBM: Weak as a comedy, and dated as a Taming of the Shrew retelling, this managed a few moments of mild charm especially when John Wayne was playing drunk and its depiction of Native Americans as actual people, with whom the hero even sympathizes, as opposed to just serving as target practice is refreshing for its time. It's not nearly enough to overcome the hokeyness, though, nor its pointlessly long runtime (it honestly felt more like three hours than two, but it didn't need to be any more than 90 minutes).

Johnbobb: There's aging poorly, and then there's whatever the fuck this was
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OUTLIER

Poke 93
KBM 57
CoolCly 56
Inviso 54
Johnbobb 44
Stifled 35
Karo 28

George Washington Pokelintock manages to knock everyone down the mudslide and stay at the top of the hill. Well, except respected Native American visitor Karo, who just casually strolls through the brawl unscathed!
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I ought to let Stifled spank all of you.

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oh hey its my dad

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Busy day today. The wife is staying at her dads for the day cuz he had surgery. So Ive been soloing the kids. Schedule for the rest of the week:

Today - none
Tomorrow - one
Friday - two
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Hint for tomorrow!

The next film had a lot of drama on set between the two leads.
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guessing any John Wayne movie

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Based on what you said during the sign-ups, Cat Ballou.

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The correct answer for this one is John Wayne and Kim Darby did not get along! If you ask me, I think it helped the movie.

#21. True Grit (1969) (69) (Nice) 131 points

Karo 4
CoolCly 11
Pokewars 17
Johnbobb 20
Stifled 24
KBM 26
Inviso 29

Very poor plot synopsis:
NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG NAG

Why it was included:
For as popular as John Wayne had become over the years, the Academy continually passed on him. Perhaps sensing they were running out of time, the Academy pulled the trigger on True Grit. THE ROOSTER allowed The Duke to finally take home a golden statue named Oscar. Would I have chosen this movie to finally give Wayne his due? Probably not. Crazy Murder Man Ethan wouldve stricken me as the big chance to give him one. For my personal tastes, I think George Washington McLintock was worthy of the honor. But thats neither here nor there. Fact of the matter is, True Grit IS the big one, and therefore belongs on the list. And as well see later on, it even warranted a remake.

What Stifled thinks:
Very little actually happens in this movie. Lets get that out of the way. Many of the action scenes are naughty cock teases. The cabin scene is a prime example. Plenty of build up, smoking out two guys, and awaiting the return of the rest SHOULD lead to a killer shootout right? Well it doesnt. The whole setup that took a large chunk of time nets practically zero in return. Perhaps Im a weirdo, but given what we ended up with at the end, I think the cabin scene could have been a fantastic climax, if executed better. Picture a huge shootout with dudes getting behind cover in and out of the cabin, and firing, using the terrain to move the battle around, and finally some close quarters combat for the finisher. Instead, we get a tiny little pew pew, a shitload of downtime, and then a group of clunky action sequences for the closer. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I wanted more.

What does redeem this one, however, is the performances. John Waynes Rooster is an interesting character. He walks the tight rope of being a competent badass and an incompetent drunk. This also translates to how the other characters interact with Rooster, as sometimes they are impressed by him and other times they think hes a fucking moron. This dynamic makes for a unique group dynamic during their travels, particularly between Rooster and Mattie. Speaking of, I enjoyed Kim Darbys performance as Mattie. This is especially true at the beginning when she uses her knowledge and persistence to talk down everyone in town trying to swindle her. Later on, her vulnerability shows and you are reminded that she is still a kid, despite how overwhelmingly adult she acts. I enjoyed this dynamic because it kept her human, similar to Rooster. No one in the film is presented as an unstoppable perfect being, which was refreshing.

The character praise ends there, however. La Beef (I know that isnt how its spelled but I think its funny to type it that way) is a fucking creep. I didnt actually care about his attitude change by the end because he gives the audience no prior good will to work with. He gets way too forward with Mattie both with flirtation and aggression. The spanking scene was completely uncomfortable while adding nothing to the movie. Besides his big moment at the end, he really adds nothing to the team either because hes kind of a screw up, which Rooster is happy to point out. Was he added purely as a foil to Rooster and Mattie? Because Rooster and Mattie are perfect foils for each other. This is doubly true because John Wayne and Kim Darby did NOT get along. Wayne described Darby as being a total brat. That definitely translated well into their scenes, I must say. A two person dynamic without La Beef wouldve been preferred. And the villain the crew hunts the entire time ends up being a nobody. Hes completely outshined by his crew that Rooster battles. I feel that is a pretty unforgiveable miss because the movie hypes this guy up as the biggest piece of shit ever. I was left wanting more once again. I suppose that is the theme of True Grit 69, being left wanting more.
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Karo: A young girl seeks the help of a cantankerous old marshal to bring her father's murderer to justice in one way or another.
The characters are top notch, none more than the delightfully spunky Mattie Ross and it is a joy watching her own all the inhabitants of this old western town with confusing legalese. Rooster Cogburn is also a great character, not because of John Wayne, but rather despite him. Wayne is still a shit actor who grunts out lines like a heavily constipated bull the same way he does in every one of his other roles.
It is a fun little romp that still remains watchable despite its age and sadly that is good enough for top 5 in this list.

CoolCly: This movie was a lot of fun with good dynamics between the cast. The texan ranger was a bit off though, I feel like his writing wasn't great and his acting was at the same level, so he didn't feel like a strong third member of the group. The scene where Rooster and the other guy argue about terms is really great

I like Mattie a lot. She's certainly the strongest female character by this point in the list. She certainly had some true grit to her, far more than Cat Ballou ever did.

A big unfortunate thing is that I accidentally started watching the remake first and made it to the fording of the river scene - I was REALLY taken with Mattie in that version, so it was hard not to find the original lacking in comparison.

But I think if Id watched the original first, I would have loved her, so I want to give her more credit.

7.5/10

Poke: I watched the 2010 remake before this one, and while I have a preference for the updated version, this is still, by itself, a great film with a solid story and John Wayne is the best Rooster.

Johnbobb: I'm a little torn on this movie, mostly because Mattie is an interesting, compelling protagonist, while I could care less about most everyone else. John Wayne is at his John Wayniest here, pilgrim, but that mostly fit the character. Wayne was almost 70 at the time, easily selling the role of a grizzled old man who could care less about courtesy or appearances. Glem Campbell's "La Beef" on the other hand was creepy and awful and just a really shit character. Beyond his role, and maybe some of the film's stereotypes (particularly the Chinese man), I don't have any real bad feelings toward this. It's probably the first movie I think of when I think "western" so take that as you will

KBM: Inferior in every way to the Coen Bros' later remake, this mostly sticks with me for a bog-standard John Wayne performance somehow beating out Dustin Hoffman and Jon Voight for Best Actor at the Academy Awards that year. (I would assume some SFF was involved here.) I can't say I think this is a bad movie, per se, but considering the remake does everything this movie does better, it is essentially an irrelevant movie though I will admit that seeing both of them is interesting just from an intellectual perspective. The best scene is easily the one with Dennis Hopper, who, with a single scene, manages to act circles around both John Wayne and the woefully (albeit hilariously) miscast Glen Campbell.

Inviso: I hated the girl in this. She was shrill and obnoxious, and as a main character, she was constantly on-screen and bombarding my senses with her presence. She alone causes this film to rank as low as it does, because otherwise, its not especially offensive. Sure, it feels kinda generic, and it drags on way too long, but I feel like thats largely a result of having an obnoxious main character who just wont ever shut the fuck up. She just keeps repeating the same stock of phrases, introducing herself and offering the services of her lawyer, and for what? Because she wants revenge on a bad guy who acts like a bumbling rube when he shows up at the tail end of the film? Honestly, despite not being the biggest fan of John Wayne, hes the films saving grace. His drunken dont give a fuck attitude balances out the lead girls Vanessa Bayer-esque mannerisms. Its still not great though.
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Saw it for the first time last year and really liked it, but I couldn't really tell you why TBH. Not from a perspective of the movie's flaws sticking out looking back, more that I just don't remember the movie too well.

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OUTLIER

Poke 97
CoolCly 66
Inviso 62
KBM 62
Johnbobb 45
Karo 45
Stifled 38

Rooster CockPoke remains safely one-eyed and drunk at the top. After being nagged to death by Stiffy Ross and annoyed to death by La Karo, the crew tries to track down the elusive CoolChaney, Lucky KBM Pepper, and Dirty Johnbobb. Lawyer Viso awaits the results back in town.
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StifledSilence posted...

Rooster CockPoke remains safely drunk at the top.

This I can confirm.


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This John Wayne fellow seems popular here

(But I honestly preferred 2010 but it could be me being a big Coen Brothers fan)

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this is a GOOD MOVIE

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#20. Bone Tomahawk 129 points

Johnbobb 13
Karo 17
CoolCly 18
KBM 19
Pokewars 19
Stifled 19
Inviso 24

Very poor plot synopsis:
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, HE IS BROKEN IN HALF! Jim Ross

Why it was included:
Its a horror western. Do you know how few of those there are? Much less, how many that are of high production value? To give you an idea, before I ran a Google search, I was only aware of Bone Tomahawk and a weird western zombie movie with various boy band icons. After the Google search? Nothing worth writing home about. By default, it belongs on the list. Well that was quick, so uhrandom trivia? Bone Tomahawk was filmed in only 21 days and on the first draft of the script! The cave where the final showdown takes place was the same cave from Iron Man 1 where Tony Stark built the first suit! One of the poor bastards that gets brutally murdered in this movie is former WCW Champion David Arquette! Ok thats all Ive got.

What Stifled thinks:
Holy shit. This might actually be the most disgusting movie Ive ever seen. Im not a big horror guy, mind you, but I have seen some super violent movies in my day. But Bone Tomahawk takes the cakeor it would if I was in any way hungry for cake. But good lord this movie is fucking gross. Theres cannibalism, throat slittings, digging around in dead dudes slit throats to find things, and even dudes getting ripped in half. So I guess you have to ask yourself, is this a good movie? Surprisingly, yes! Bone Tomahawk, as you might suspect by now, will definitely keep you interested. The shock value is off the charts, sure, but the characters are good too. This is particularly true of Arthur, who is the fucking man and everyone should know it. Dude goes all out to get his wife back and that includes killing multiple roided Native zombie cannibal things with only one good leg. They call them troglodytes but I dont think that term packs enough punch to properly describe these things. Theyre on another level.

There is, unfortunately, one thing that kind of pissed me off about Bone Tomahawk. For a movie with so much graphic violence, there is also a surprising amount of downtime. The quest to find Arthurs wife has a lengthy section where absolutely nothing of note happens except for Arthurs leg getting messed up. Minimal character development or progress on the quest. Just a drawn out nature hike with every excruciating detail including. The cutting room floor can be an enemy to some films, but it should have been used far more on some of the downtime. Once it gets going again, Bone Tomahawk is relentless. But that lull in the middle took the edge off, and I didnt want the edge off.
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Johnbobb: Much like Mortal Kombat, I don't remember the plot but I sure as hell remember the fatalities.

Karo: When some people go missing from a town, it is a surprise to everyone that the culprits are some Orcs that found their way here from Middle Earth.
The Posse of the Ring is formed and they travel to Mordor where cowboys are dismembered messily and the protagonist takes out the entire tribe while having a broken leg thanks to the power of plot armor and bad writing.
The best part of the movie is when their little group is on the trail of the kidnappers and it really didnt need to be much more than that, but unfortunately it soon degrades into exploitative stupidity that panders to the basest of audiences. No effort is made to rationalize the existence of the film's antagonists or explain why an otherwise realistic movie turns into Wild Wild Warcraft for no reason.
So we are left with a pointless film whose whole premise seems to be based upon 'hey we want to be able to massacre some savages in the modern era but we can't use indians any more so lets make mutant indians and call them something else'.
This is one tomahawk that definitely needs to be buried, hopefully good and deep where nobody can ever find it again.

CoolCly: I don't like gore or especially gross kills. It doesn't add anything of enjoyment for me, and makes me squeamish and unhappy. In general, I dont find grittiness or grimdark to really elevate something. If it is used for good effect and purpose, it can add things, but the tone itself is not pleasant to me and it doesnt win me over in anyway.
So this movie had a pretty uphill battle to win me over and I dont think it really got there.

The characters werent that good. This in group conflict between Chicory and Brooder is just like. Sad. Chicory is just boringly old and incompetent and Brooder is an incel who studied the blade I guess. Kurt Russell has been phenomenal in other western roles, but this didnt feel like much of a standout.
Arthur being stubborn about how his leg is affecting him and how to treat it is just like, annoying. Having a character like this can add an interesting dynamic, but this is just tedious and annoying. And what - so we can have seens of him yelling damn when he's struggling with it? It's not like they give a realistic take on someone like him going through this anyways. Brooder provoking Arthur into the scene that breaks his leg further is just like dumb. This is just boringly dumb.

I feel like this movie dehumanizes indians in a way that even the older movies don't. They feel more like Predators than human beings. They have a bone whistle surgically grafted into their throats? Maybe this all makes for effective movie monsters, but ehhhh. The pregnant women that have have been blinded and had their limbs removed are especially weird. Surely this isnt based on a real tribe? It's strange that it goes to such lengths to set them as inhuman monsters, but then also they snuck into the middle of town at night and kidnapped a couple people specifically and the moved on out.

"Aint no concern of the civilized man" as he rubs his nuts with the barrel of his gun was a great open to the movie though.

Overall, I dont like this movie. But I think it has the right vibe that many people that it strikes with would absolutely love it. Good for them.

5/10

KBM: This is a hard one to know how to feel about. On the one hand, there are some truly terrific performances here, especially from Richard Jenkins as Backup Deputy Chicory, who lends some much-needed levity to the otherwise grimdark proceedings, and from Matthew Fox as the aptly-named Brooder. There's also some scenes of extremely graphic violence and gore that occur just seldom enough that when they do happen, they're undeniably effective and disturbing. The problem I have, though, is that, despite some good character moments along the way, this ultimately feels like a retread of that same tired, racist Searchers narrative all over again. Only this time, the narrative makes a point of stressing that these people aren't REAL Native Americans, aren't even real humans, because look, here's one scene of a Native guy SAYING they aren't! It just leaves a slightly bad taste in my mouth when all is said and done, despite the talented cast and some great individual scenes. Still, I'll never forget the experience of watching it, and that counts for something, especially considering the amount of things about it I did really enjoy.

Poke: I dont think Ive ever witnessed a more genuinely horrifying scene than the one featured in this film. The movie does a good job at making you feel utterly helpless like the characters do. Still, I did enjoy it, but I do hope to blot the tail end of it from my mind.

Inviso: This one was difficult to watch, if Im being honest. Ill give it a TON of credit, because its one of the few movies on this list that doesnt feel like its following a very strict interpretation as to what a western is. Its a horror movie, and I think if the gore was more consistent throughout the film, it would remind me something like an Eli Roth movie. Honestly, the gore itself was nasty, but it injected some much-needed life into the film. The general plot of Indians raiding a town, and people going on a mission to rescue the victims, lends itself to very boring pacing. This is exacerbated when you have an over two-hour runtime. But overall, it just didnt quite work for me. Aside from the opening scene setting a gruesome, horror movie tone, the film just drags on for too long, and its just a little too front-loaded and back-loaded without enough quality in the middle to keep me engaged.
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OUTLIER

Poke 99
CoolCly 69
Inviso 65
KBM 64
Johnbobb 53
Karo 49
Stifled 40

Poke avoids getting ripped in half by the rest of the rankers and maintains a solid lead and does so with only one leg!
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I liked the scene where the cool indian consultant shows up in his suit and examines the arrow and is just like "oh yeah, this is the troglodyte tribe, those guys are crazy. they don't even talk. they are cannibals and live in the mountains. I don't fuck with that. good luck out there homies. peace out."

also making the guy that got torn in half some nameless guy we barely know instead of one of the crew was cowardly

not as cowardly as me though. i looked away.

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And here's the second drop of the evening, as promised.

#19. Desperado 123 points

Inviso - 7
CoolCly 9
Stifled 14
KBM 20
Johnbobb 21
Karo 25
Pokewars 27

Very poor plot synopsis:
Lets try El Mariachi again, except with Antonio Banderas and Salma Hayek.

Why it was included:
The second film in the Mariachi Trilogy, Desperado advances from the tiny budget of the first with some more buying power and star power. Antonio Banderas is brought in to take over the role of the Mariachi. Desperado came during Antonios multi-year run of focusing on being an action star. Prior to Desperado, his biggest movie role was getting it on with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia. So heres to Mr. Banderas by including this film on the list.

What Stifled thinks:
Despite feeling a little rehashy, and despite my utter hatred of unnecessary recasting, I actually really love what Desperado has to offer. Banderas brings a charisma and a presence to this role that elevates it past the characters former wrong place at the wrong time kind of vibe. Its at this point the Mariachi is more of a hardened killer, being very well known in the criminal underworld. In that regard, the recasting works quite well. The only spot that bugged me was where they green screened Banderas over flashback footage of the original movie. That is some Hayden in Return of the Jedi bullshit. Not to mention bringing back the original Mariachi to be a completely different character was a bit confusing. It temporarily made me ponder as to whether there were multiple Mariachis. But it ends up being very similar to Lee Van Cleef being in the Dollars Trilogy as two different characters. That doesnt particularly excuse this, as both examples are kind of stupid. But hey. What can you do?

Regardless, Desperado is an excellent action western. The western vibe is maintained while adding a healthy dose of modern action movie violence. The characters are interesting and memorable. The emotion shown by them is intense. I have next to no complaints about the movie itself. That end plot twist of Bucho being Mariachis brother though? They can keep that shit. That felt very tacked on and dumb. Did it ruin the movie, however? Not at all! As dumb as it is, its also just as easy to forget about it. So no worries.
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Inviso: As a sequel to El Mariachi, completely recasting the main character with Antonio Banderas, Desperado is great. Im not gonna call it high cinema or anything like that, but its the perfect kind of action schlock that Im unable to hate too too much. Its convenient that Quentin Tarantino cameos in the film, because the style of the dialogue and general storytelling is reminiscent of a Tarantino movie. Steve Buscemis multiple scenes of neuroses and storytelling were great, and the action scenes felt high-paced enough to sell the intensity they were going for, while still managing to work some comedic aspects into them. It was also pretty hilarious how everything kept ramping up and ramping up and it turns out that Banderas and the bad guy were unwittingly brothers the whole time, following by a duo of new mariachi killers with a rocket launcher and machine guns. That whole ending sequence was insane in the best possible way, and it capped off a fun movie.

CoolCly: Steve Buscemi's intro scene is fun - and he feels like the main character from the first movie. Way more so than Antonio Banderas

What a strange choice to recreate the final confrontation of El Mariachi with the F list actors except with Antonio Banderas it feels very at odds.

Quentin Tarantino had a pretty good scene.

Antonio Banderas shooting up the bar was awesome, and the scene of him and the last guy shooting empty guns at eachother was a lot of fun.

Calling in the Mariachi Avengers at the end was ridiculous. I mean it was cool as hell and a lot of fun so im fine with it in general but it makes the idea of El Mariachi being the origin story even more ridiculous and pointless. Kinda annoying that they show up to help and then just die in the shootout though. Also the kid that just hangs around every scene for no reason getting shot was pretty ehh.

The villian was good - in El Mariachi, I was often thinking what a joke the villain was, and what an actual good version of him would look like. I basically imagined this guy - and that's what he is. A working version of the El Mariachi villain, in charisma, intimidation, dangerousness, and they even managed to give him personal stakes with the Mariachi at the very end.

Overall, this feels like a remake of El Mariachi except actually good and fun. Theres a lot of senseless violence, but its done in such fun and inventive ways that it keeps you engaged. I really enjoyed this movie, despite so much not making sense.

This is a mexican crime drama though, not a western. Don't agree with it being in this list.

7.8/10

KBM: It's basically the first movie again, but with more budget, more explosions, and less substance when it comes to the plot and characters. Banderas is great, as always, but also loses that everyman flair that Carlos Gallardo had in the part. And as far as the action scenes went, this was the one of the Mexico trilogy where things just kind of felt a bit repetitive at times a new character would show up, be cool for like five minutes, and then die, and then another new character would show up, be cool for five minutes, and then die, rinse and repeat. I do have to give a shout-out to Joaquim de Almeida as the villain, though (Ramon Salazar himself the guy plays a truly memorable villain).

Johnbobb: I like Robert Rodriguez a lot, and you can see so much of what would eventually become so heavily associated with him. Absurd gunfights, killer soundtracks, Quentin Tarantino. It's all here, but it's also pretty apparent that this was his early work, as a lot of his style is present but as of yet undefined. The story and most of the characters are nothing special, leading to some bland lulls between the action-packed shoot-ups that Rodriguez clearly wanted to focus on but wanted to stretch out into a movie.

Karo: The gunslinging mariachi singer returns to mindlessly kick some more ass, this time with some semblance of a budget.
Hey, you think that having more money would be an improvement, right? Oh you sweet summer child. The success of the first movie only emboldens Rodriguez to go further up his own ass with his idiocy and squeeze out this mess of stilted dialogue, bizarre character behavior and random porno music riffs.
So what happens is Mariachi rampages through mexico, murdering everyone who might have talked to Moco once, and pursues this mysterious 'Bucho' character, who actually had very little to do with his girl's death.
But hey, where we're going we don't need logic or coherent writing, only vague reasoning for people to gun down each other arbitrarily in increasingly cringey stupidity that seems born from the mind of an adolescent school shooter wannabe.
So the protagonist shoots many cartel thugs and the occasional small child. Idiotic random guitar case killer friends just come out of nowhere and do dumb things because the movie is dumb. Bucho is actually secretly the Mariachi's brother because why the fuck not at this point.
In this trainwreck there is only one constant, and that is Desperado es el stupido.

Poke: Steve Buscemi and Quentin Tarantino added makes this, by default, the best of the Mariachi trilogy. But thats not saying much.
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OUTLIER

Poke 107
CoolCly 79
Inviso 77
KBM 65
Johnbobb 55
Karo 55
Stifled 45

Aww man Poke got recast as Antonio Banderas. But it turned out really well! As a small consolation, hes still in the lead. He also found out CoolCly was his brother all along, but it ultimately didnt matter much.
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Jesus, you thought McClintock was funny, but hated Desperado? Classic Pokewars.

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Yeah, but McLintock isn't action schlock, a term I'll borrow from your write-up.

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Pokewars posted...

Yeah, but McLintock isn't action schlock, a term I'll borrow from your write-up.

It was just schlock, full stop.

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Damn, Bone Tomahawk is the one movie that makes me wish I was able to finish my write-ups for this project, even if I wouldn't have made that much of a difference. Loved reading these reactions though! Even the most hardcore of horror fans can get turned off by the scalping and bisection so I can't imagine not even being into the genre in the first place. The atmosphere is spectacular, I love how you can feel every agonizing second of the journey, you get to know all of these characters' flaws and insecurities, and how it baits you with false antagonists, before it absolutely explodes into the viscerally intense horror which goes way beyond simple death scenes with something much more indescribably grotesque, a twisted reflection of humanity's darkest urges in the era it's portrayed and beyond.

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Like I said earlier, wasn't a fan of Desperado when I watched it. Not really a bad movie, just not very good either.

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I really like Desperado. It's the exact right kind of meaningless action. A lot of movies (including movies yet to be revealed on this list) have gratuitous violence that doesn't really mean anything to the plot or the characters AND it's not really done in a fun or engaging way just for itself. It's just violence. At best, it's there to shock you.

The violence in Desperado often doesn't have meaning to the characters (though sometimes it actually does!), it's mostly just mindless killing, but the actual choreography and movement throughout these scenes are so engaging and fun, filled with gags and suspenseful moments, that it's elevated from meaningless violence to a key element and the highlight of the film. I think this is a GOOD MOVIE

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I enjoyed the action, visuals, and acting. Just the story and characters didn't keep me interested.

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I would like to take this opportunity to shout out @VengefulKaelee for all of the 24 references. Ive enjoyed those a lot in the write ups so far!
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#18. Cat Ballou 122 points

Johnbobb 9
Inviso 11
Stifled 12
Karo 21
CoolCly 23
KBM 23
Pokewars 23

Very poor plot synopsis:
Jane Fonda starts wearing clothes after the events of Barbarella and finds herself in the Wild West with a harem and a band that narrates her through song.

Why it was included:
A musical western comedy with a female lead? Holy shit, check check and check! Lee Marvin even won a Best Actor Academy Award for his performance. It also made the American Film Institutes list of the top 10 westerns of all time at #10. In case youre wondering, five of those top ten made this list (The Searchers, High Noon, Shane, Stagecoach, and Cat Ballou) with the other five (Unforgiven, Red River, The Wild Bunch, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and McCabe and Mrs. Miller) making Westerns 2. The interesting thing about Cat Ballou being a comedy is the source novel being a serious story. In fact, the author, Roy Chanslor, also wrote the novel that was adapted into Johnny Guitar, a not-at-all comedy film that will be on the next list.

What Stifled thinks:
I have a massive crush on Jane Fonda. If there are ever time machines, I would go back to the 1960s and throw myself at her feet to use me as she wishes. She can do no wrong. Shes also a fantastic actress and Cat Ballou is yet another piece of evidence to support that fact. But before I gush on for too long about her, Ill focus on the movie instead!

So I found Cat Ballou to be such a good time. The chemistry between the main cast is so enjoyable to watch. The little touches added like the studio logo at the beginning firing shots are wonderful. The western conventions like random dance numbers and brawls are parodied with such perfect comedic timing that its a shame not every movie can nail it like this one. Train robberies and horse chases are parodied. Even taking a bath is a big gag! Many films on this list are good for different reasons, but Cat Ballou was just pure fun. I loved how I felt while I watched it, and I am now in the mood to watch it a second time just thinking about it!
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Johnbobb: The main takeaway here seems to be the constant playing with the expectations of the viewer. From the start, the hardened criminal to be hanged is a Cinderella-looking damsel; the drunk priest is an outlaw; the most well-read, distinguished character is the Native American; the legendary gunslinger can barely stand; the bar of murderers is just a harmless small town shop. It's all just a really nice change of pace, especially after watching handfuls of other westerns from the previous years. Cat herself is a joy to watch, with small exceptions that even a movie like this couldn't avoid from the times. It was annoying to have her instantly become the wimpering damsel after seeing Strawn again, to the point that it feels out of order with the rest of her events in the movie. The songs are all bops (sung by Nat King Cole???!??) and it's hard to watch without at least smiling a bit.

Inviso: At first, this movie started to give me the kinds of fearful vibes I got after watching Barbarella for the sci-fi list. Its Jane Fonda all over again, in a semi-comedic movie back in the sixties. However, this worked a lot better than Barbarella did for me, largely because it had an actual plot and wasnt just fanservice for fanservices sake. The plot is simple enough: girl returns home to find that bad guys want to run her daddy off his ranch, bad guys kill said father, and girl looks to murder everyone involved in making that happen. She cobbles together a ragtag gang and becomes a genuine outlaw, committing a train robbery and everything, to hit the rich mastermind right where it hurts: his pocket book. The musical interludes add an upbeat tempo to what could have otherwise been a bit of an awkward balance of drama and comedy, and I just enjoyed the tone of the film as a whole.

Karo: So this girl goes to live in the semi-wild west with her dad because she's a teacher or something, only to see him get murdered by a bounty hunter. This totally didnt have anything to do with how daddy acted like an argumentative asshole to everyone in town.
Anyway, she tries to hire her own gunman from some trashy adventure novels she likes and that goes about as well as you'd expect as she and her band of morons take on 'the man' in an 'adventure' that is not really as funny as it thinks it is.
For all the attention put upon Cat, she does astoundingly little in the film, she mostly exists to simply as a pretty set piece or be a damsel in distress. Where the hell is the sassy gunslinging cowgirl from all the promotional materials?
It often seems more like the protagonist is the shitty alcoholic, who is a never ending fountain of unoriginal and unfunny drunkard pratfalls.
If you really want to just watch Jane Fonda be cute there are better movies for that. Such as Barbarella.

CoolCly: I was very interested in Cat Ballou. The cover art looks great and the little animation of the badass female gunslinger dual wielding pistols really intrigued me. I was really excited to see this outlaw in action, and the introduction of those guys singing about Cat Ballou kept this excitement going. Like Id see some sort of Western version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer
But. This movie isnt really about that character. This is about a typical damsel whos caught in a plot of murder around her father and the rapscallions she draws to her to do her dirty wok.
Sure, she kills the rich guy in the end, but most of her actions involve throwing a fit until the men do what she wants. And not really in a femme fatale manipulative sort of way. Its just a temper tantrum.
Maybe she grows into the outlaw the intro to the movie paints her as, but thats not what she was here. Maybe cinema wasnt ready to portray a woman actually doing those things yet.
Maybe this movie inspired creators in the 80ies and 90ies to actually go the distance with these characters. If so, it deserves some credit. But it didnt get there itself
4.1/10

KBM: Watchable but far from indispensable, this features likable enough performances from Jane Fonda and Lee Marvin, and using Nat 'King' Cole and Stubby Kaye as a sort of Old West Greek chorus was a cute touch. Unfortunately, none of the comedy was all that funny, and the overall story wasn't all that engaging. At least it was short!

Poke: This is a fun romp that doesnt take itself too seriously. And I love saying Cat Balloooou.
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OUTLIER

Poke 112
CoolCly 84
Inviso 84
KBM 70
Johnbobb 64
Karo 58
Stifled 51

=( ya go my jane fonda
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aw what :/

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I love Cat Ballou, good on you high rankers.

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So AFI is stupid and I never knew Lee Marvin won an Oscar for his role.....I question that.

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Oh yeah would not agree with Desperado above True Grit at all but that's fine.

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Nothing tonight, pilgrims. Be back tomorrow.
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#17. Shanghai Noon 121 points

Karo 11
Stifled 13
CoolCly 16
Johnbobb 16
Inviso 19
KBM 22
Pokewars 24

Very poor plot synopsis:
Take the 1971 classic Red Sun, remove blood and boobs, replace Japanese samurai swords with Chinese kung fu, and make it a comedy.

Why it was included:
Sitting in my living room tinkering with the original draft of my list, I suddenly blurted out Holy shit thats right! Its a western!. After explaining what on earth I was talking about, I happily added an old favorite of mine to Westerns 1. I had a hard time remembering childhood favorites when trying to compile this list, because for some reason my focus was on the movies with the highest acclaim. But as I stopped to think about it, things like Shanghai Noon became obvious choices. Its a western with Jackie Fucking Chan. Do I really need to explain this any further?

What Stifled thinks:
Oh man, this one is a wild time. And its actually a pretty amazing merger of wild west and Chinese cultures, believe it or not. Owen Wilson and Jackie Chan not only begrudgingly work together for a common goal, but they also teach each other things. Thinking back to other Jackie Chan movies, this is something he seems to enjoy adding to the character development, and its very much a positive. Rush Hour is a good comparison piece for this, as Jackie Chans character and Chris Tuckers character learn from each other as well. This translates to action sequences as the pew pew and the kick kick work so well together. And this is definitely a good thing because the same good characterization Wilson and Chan got did not get afforded to the villains. I am trying so hard without Google searching to remember them, but I CANT (except motherfucking Xander Berkeley, of course!). I remember them dropping everything and bowing to a scroll. I remember them fighting. But likenothing else. But honestly, as long as they are able to give Jackie Chan a good fight, it doesnt matter much. I have a good time EVERY time I watch Shanghai Noon, and of course, this time was no different.

Also, the late 90s/early 2000s were wonderful with Lucy Liu appearing in so many movies. Can we go back to that please?

ALSO also, fricking Chon Wang. What a great name and gag! These guys thought of everything!
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Karo: When Princess Peepee is captured from the forbidden city, a dutiful everyman imperial guard who wants no trouble comes to the wild west looking for her and kung-fus everyone.
It is a mediocre Jackie Chan movie set in the old west. That is what it is. There is not really much else to say, it is pretty by the book for Chan's movies and if all you care about is seeing him beat people up with improvised weapons in silly situations you won't be disappointed.

CoolCly: Jackie Chan is a master of using the environment as a participant in a fight scene, and its on display here. The horsehoe flail he makes is a great combat scene, I love to see it. The fight with the Imperial Guard with the various weapons was good too.

The wife is MEGA underwritten. If they wanted to have her play such key roles in the plot and rescue them then they should actually give her a personality and include her in scenes? That's really bad. But I guess thats better than the sex object dummy of a female character they had in WIld Wild West. But it's ESPECIALLY messed up that they force a romance between Jackie Chan and the princess after everything this wife does for him, and then pass her off to Owen Wilson in the end.

I feel like they intended for Jackie Chan to be a common Imperial soldier and not one of the best of the best, and for Owen Wilson to be a common bandit and not a great gunslinger. But I feel like they went too far in making Owen Wilson seem incompetent and let Jackie Chan be too good at fighting for either of those to be true.

There's some annoying bad hollywood movie tropes that are brought in. Particularly when John meets the princess and exposes her because of his dumb behaviour. It just doesn't make sense to write characters this dumb. His "duty to bring her home" wouldn't outweigh his ability have any sense of his surroundings whatsoever..

6/10

Johnbobb: "This is a mid-tier 2000s comedy with top-tier fight choreography. Seriously, this movie is NOTHING without Jackie Chan, with uninspired music choices (looking at you Kid Rock), bad jokes (as soon as I heard the princess was named Pei-Pei I KNEW it was only so they could make a peepee joke, which, of course, they did) and Owen Wilson being Owen Wilson. This is the debut of director Tom Dey, who used the success from this to make 3 garbage movies and an awful tv show based on a movie much, MUCH better than anything he's capable of doing. And he's got another movie in the works? Who keeps hiring this guy? In the hands of someone better this goes from a cheesy, kinda dumb, kinda fun physical comedy to an instant classic.

Side note: I always forget how fucking cute Lucy Liu is, goddamn."

Inviso: Honestly, this one ranks as high as it does for me almost entirely on the fact that Jackie Chan is just one of the most lovable action movie stars imaginable. And I pray that nothing comes out about him in the future that will make this write-up look REALLY bad in retrospect. His naivete makes him a good fish-out-of-water in almost any setting, and it definitely works well here, because hes just so earnest and honorable that he helps sell the straight edge/scumbag buddy cop dynamic. That being said, Owen Wilson kinda sucks in this, and the plot is rather generic and uninspired, largely capitalizing on a weirdly-immature sense of humor (see: the drinking game bathtub scene, or the peace pipe scene). So really, its not a great movie, but Jackie Chan is always great, and the addition of kung fu fight scenes salvage SOMETHING watchable from this.

KBM: This one is a frustrating one for me, in that it could have been so much better than it ended up being. As a Jackie Chan action movie, this is great. You basically can't go wrong with Jackie Chan doing martial arts, and that stuff is all well-shot and executed here. He's also got some pleasantly surprising chemistry with Owen Wilson, and Xander Berkeley (one of my favorite underappreciated character actors) is a lot of fun as the evil Marshal. The problem, though, comes whenever the Disney factor starts creeping in. The comedy is super cheesy and forced, and I was rolling my eyes through most of these scenes just waiting for more of the action stuff to kick in, wishing they had just gone for a more hard-edged action movie with the same plot but without the lame (and occasionally mildly-offensive) attempts at humor.

Poke: This film had no business actually making me enjoy it a bit. Its silly, but its got Owen Wilson, who is always disarmingly charming and Jackie Chans stunts are a treat.
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OUTLIER

Poke 119
Inviso 86
CoolCly 85
KBM 75
Johnbobb 65
Karo 64
Stifled 55

The battle for first place is as interesting as a piss shirt bending prison bars. But the battle for second place is getting some lightning-fast Jackie Chan kicks going.
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Sorry for lack of commentary. The middle portion of these lists is usually one of the bigger dips in content. It's easier to get invested in the highest-ranking and lowest-ranking films, because those stir up strong emotions.

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I don't really have a problem with it individually, it's just that the slant towards newer movies on these lists typically doesn't sit well with me. Next thing you know we'll have people saying The Last Jedi is better than The Godfather.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

I don't really have a problem with it individually, it's just that the slant towards newer movies on these lists typically doesn't sit well with me. Next thing you know we'll have people saying The Last Jedi is better than The Godfather.

Oh my God, shut up about The Last Jedi. The ONLY person on this board who I could EVER see making that dumbassed comparison is YOU, specifically because you are the only person around here who goes out of their way to defend The Last Jedi.

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Who ended their trilogy better, modern Star Wars or The Godfather

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Okay the analogy I was originally going to use was Black Widow vs. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. The joke being there's as much time between those movies' releases as between those of Shanghai Noon and The Searchers. The TLJ vs. Godfather comparison is only 1 year off - otherwise I was thinking of making the analogy TLJ vs. The Exorcist.

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Johnbobb posted...

Who ended their trilogy better, modern Star Wars or The Godfather

the godfather by far

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Ehhhh I dunno. I wanna watch it again someday and give it another chance, but Godfather 3 was really bad. I at least enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker.
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Also, page break or whatever.
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