Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks: Westerns! The Official Results Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Howdy, folks! Previously on this lovely ranking series, Inviso hosted a successful MCU topic. Next up, we're gonna head west for some cowboy shit. A group of Board 8ers watched 30 westerns and ranked them from their favorite in 1st to their least favorite in 30th. They also did writeups of their thoughts on each of the films in question. I then calculated the results and now here we are.

Now your gut reaction might be that Westerns are all one-note, shoot the natives, white dudes in hats kinds of movies. In some cases thats definitely true. However! Westerns can also bend genres and show surprising versatility. Strong female leads? Strong black leads? Strong Hispanic leads? Lotsa spaghetti? Comedy? Kung fu? Horror? Outer space? Whatever the fuck Wild Wild West is aiming for? Weve got that shit in spades, partner.

Bear in mind, I made two lists. This is Westerns 1. Westerns 2 will be done in the future. Chances are, the movies you will be asking Stifled you moron, where is ____ are on that list.

In this topic, you will get rankings, fun facts, perhaps a bit of history, and then some hard hitting opinions from us. I am your host, StifledSilence, and I hope you will enjoy the ride.

These are the rankers:

CoolCly
Inviso
Johnbobb
Karo
KBM
Pokewars
Stifled

These are the movies:

Stagecoach (1939)
My Darling Clementine (1946)
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
High Noon (1952)
Shane (1953)
The Searchers (1956)
The Magnificent Seven (1960)
McLintock! (1963)
A Fistful of Dollars (1964)
Cat Ballou (1965)
For a Few Dollars More (1965)
Django (1966)
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
The Great Silence (1968)
True Grit (1969)
Two Mules For Sister Sara (1970)
Blazing Saddles (1974)
Young Guns (1988)
El Mariachi (1992)
Tombstone (1993)
Desperado (1995)
Wild Wild West (1999)
Shanghai Noon (2000)
Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2003)
3:10 to Yuma (2007)
True Grit (2010)
Django Unchained (2012)
Bone Tomahawk (2015)
The Hateful Eight (2015)
Prospect (2018)
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A fun little bit of trivia to get everyone started:

30 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
30 points
40 points
53 points
63 points
64 points
71 points
79 points
87 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
87 points
98 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
98 points
104 points
113 points
118 points
121 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
121 points
122 points
123 points
129 points
131 points
137 points
142 points
143 points
147 points
152 points
158 points
159 points
164 points
171 points

These are the point totals of each movie from the winner at the top to last place at the bottom. The less points, the better, because having a bunch of top ten finishes will add up to less than having a bunch of finishes in the 20s.

The herd of cattle in the room you will see is obviously the tie for first place. Crazy right? There were actually multiple ties as I went along. To break the ties, I dropped the lowest score of each film involved in the tie and recalculated. Just something to think about as we go along.

So yeah, hype it up and speculate! What will win? What will the last place film be? The first film will drop tomorrow night. Please enjoy.
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Rad!

Also holy shit at the tie for first place. Has that happened before?

VengefulKaelee posted...

Rad!

Also holy shit at the tie for first place. Has that happened before?

Not that I recall. I think this is the first time. I was pretty shocked at the total. I even counted it like 5 times to make sure lol
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Tag

There are a lot of good choices for last place, but given this group's general low tolerance for obnoxious small children I'm pretty sure I know what it is.

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If it's not my 30th then you've all already failed.

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Tag. Not much into westerns but reading a B8/Gauntlet Ranks topic can be fun regardless.

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If everyone ranked a move in 30th, it'd be 210 points.

The worst score is MUCH stronger than that, which means it must have got some pretty good ratings.

It averages out to an average rank of 24th! That must mean there isn't a widely agreed upon worst movie.

I'm sure *my* last place isn't the lowest ranked movie here though!

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Tag

I couldnt make the time to do this, but interested to follow.

Tag

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strong tag

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Taaaag

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#30. Wild Wild West 171 points

Inviso: 14
CoolCly: 19
Karo: 23
Johnbobb: 27
Stifled: 28
KBM: 30
Pokewars: 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
Will Smith, Kevin Kline, and various forms of discrimination star in this comedy that was 150% better in all of our childhoods when the bad jokes went over our heads. Oh and that one part was cool when we were all oooooh cool gigantic metal spider in the wild west!

Why it was included:
A bunch of folks were kind enough to give me ideas for movies to include on this list. Many were movies I already had in mind. A few I wouldnt have thought of. A few werespecial, shall we say. My original intent was to not waste any spots on a garbage flick, but I decided to not be so stiff and toss in a for fun kind of entry. It was between Wild Wild West and The Lone Ranger: Johnny Depp Edition. Basically, what made me include Wild Wild West was twofold. Firstly, a protagonist in a western not hailing from the sovereign nation of Caucasia isnt the most common occurrence in the genre. Gotta take that when you can get it. Secondly, I thought everyone might have fun childhood/teenage nostalgia for it.

Speaking of fun, you might think Will Smith was able to prevent this movie from flopping upon release, but youd be wrong! On a $170 million budget, it only raked in $222 million total with $114 of that coming from domestic box office sales. I noticed Warner Bros website bragged about Wild Wild West being #1 the weekend of its release, which sounds great on paper. But what was it up against you might ask? How about Big Daddy and Disneys Tarzan, both of which had been out multiple weeks prior. And even then, those two raked in $26 and $19 million that weekend respectively, compared to a newly released high budget Wild Wild West bringing in $36 million. This is especially sad considering it was 4th of July weekend. Men in Black and Independence Day both got over $50 million opening weekend. We have an oopsie on our hands. This particular western is not significant for moving the genre forward or making stars out of anyone. Its actually significant for the damage it did! This was Will Smiths first big flop. He was pretty much a box office summer blockbuster guarantee until this movie. Id argue he wasnt quite the same after Wild Wild Westsome good roles, but nothing of his prior caliber. After Earth, anyone? As for the western genre itself, it wouldnt see any sort of resurgence in popularity until a few years later. While I cant prove Wild Wild West held it back per se, can I prove it didnt? Nope.

What Stifled thinks:
Its hot garbage. Likenot even hot. Not steaming. This movie is garbage that is actively on fire. And Im not talking about your run of the mill, everyday kind of garbage. Im talking about dirty diapers, spoiled milk, moldy produce, and whatever you emptied out of your cats litter box all in one bag. Oh, and the bag ripped when the trash truck came to get it, so you (or me I suppose) subjected those poor civil servants to absolute hell on your (my) driveway. But anyway, listen, Will Smith cant carry this movie on his back. There isnt a surgeon on earth that could repair his vertebrae after such a feat. The racism, sexism, and discrimination against the handicapped is too ridiculous and over the top to work. Big difference between a period piece and a drunken re-enactment of the Civil War era at the local Confederate sympathizer meeting. I will admit, a breath of fresh ass and a breast of fresh air got chuckles out of me. And some of the action scenes were kinda cool. But likeit sucks overall. Hard.
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Writeups!

Inviso: This movie is dumb. Like, Im never gonna try to claim its some kind of high cinema. But for what it is, its enjoyable. Wild Wild West feels like a prototypical Robert Down Jr. Sherlock Holmes, or just a slightly more serious Austin Powers, set in the old west. Hell, remember that I was someone who ranked Men In Black VERY high compared to the ranking consensus when we did the sci-fi list. So its possible that I just have an affinity for the quippy charisma of Will Smith. Ultimately though, this is a classic buddy cop movie, just in a unique setting from the buddy cop movies of the eighties and early nineties. Youve got the impulsive, street-smart badass (Will Smith) and the nerdy, planning scientist (Kevin Kline) trying to work together despite the intense differences in their styles of investigation. Honestly, the biggest flaws and perhaps the reason this movie is so maligned is because the characterization is bad. West is given such inconsistent backstory beyond his character arc within the movie itself, and Artemis is given nothing. Also, Selma Hayek feels almost unnecessary to the overall plot, so theres that too. But whatever, I enjoyed the movie compared to many others on this list.

CoolCly: I came into this movie thinking I was doing to find it to be dumb Hollywood drivel, but I was surprised how much I actually liked it.
General BloodBath Magrath is exceptionally gross. I suppose thats mission accomplished though.
I enjoy Artemis Gordons preference for gadgets and disguise as his primary tools, but I feel like the way they play it at odds with Jim Wests shoot first style goes too far. Gordon is helpless in actual danger and West makes increasingly stupid decisions throughout the movie because shoot first.
That said Will Smith actually is pretty fuckin cool in this movie. The intro the president with Gordon in disguise was actually pretty damn good
I kinda like the villain, he's at least very memorable, and his babe minions are pretty unique too. The frankenstein gang that came out of nowhere on the spider were pretty cool too. And you gotta love the steam punk machinery he relies on.
The ending really went off the rails though. Will Smith's dancer costume just pushed things wayyy too far in a scene that should have had much higher tension and stakes. I was almost going to give this a much better rating.
The female character is honestly really badly written. Worse than classic western women.
5/10

Karo: Y'know there was this movie called Men In Black, but what if we did it again in the old west? Let's cast Will Smith again and have him team up with Inspector Gadget and have them banter with each other in a way that has zero humor! Aren't we amazing?
Smith tries his best to make this shit work but his character is unbelievable, unlikable, and unorginal. The plot would be idiotic in a children's movie and it doesnt have a clue what it wants to be except to have absolutely nothing work on any level.
Like its supposed to be this screwball buddy comedy but then we put all these themes of racism and ethnic cleansing in and it gets really uncomfortable. Like they literally have a scene where Smith's character is set upon by a mob of white southerners intent on a lynching. They then try to play it for laughs. Not in a dark comedy kind of way but rather 'ha ha this black man thinks he can go to a fancy ball but now we gonna hang him because he is black isnt this so funny' seriously what the fuck is wrong with this movie.
The main question I kept asking myself throughout this is 'can it get any stupider', and unfortunately the answer was always yes.
You can be funny without leaving reality so far behind that we end up with 50 foot tall spider mechs in the civil war era and with villains whose concept and appearance are so absurd I might as well be watching an episode of Power Rangers.

Johnbobb: If you take out the terrible acting, the stupid plot, the weird crossdressing jokes, and the poorly-aged visuals, you've still got a bad movie.

KBM: A deeply, deeply stupid film. I pause only a moment for consideration before shunting it into last place, and that single moment is brought to you by Kenneth Branagh's bizarre, over-the-top performance being something about the movie that's almost worth watching. But not really.

Pokewars: What a trainwreck. Look how they massacre my Kevin Kline, who was phenomenal in A Fish Called Wanda. What was anyone thinking signing on for this?
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Awwww. My love of shlocky dreck foils my plans once more.

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Also, it's been a few years since it was last relevant on one of these lists, but Poke ranked a film last that had a black lead. Coincidence? :P

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OUTLIER

Inviso 16
CoolCly 11
Karo 7
Johnbobb 3
Stifled 2
KBM 0
Poke 0

Inviso is off to a rocket start in the presidential train, closely followed by CoolCly on the ye olde huge mechanical spider. Karo, Johnbobb, and Stifled found themselves confused as to why Kevin Kline in drag fooled anyone and lagged to the middle of the pack. KBM and Poke made like Salma Hayek and bailed out of that lame love triangle for zero points to start.
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Inviso posted...

Also, it's been a few years since it was last relevant on one of these lists, but Poke ranked a film last that had a black lead. Coincidence? :P

From the director of Men in White and Honkeydependence Day comes a western thriller...with the Fresh Prince of Bel Air? Woah there, pilgrim, isn't that guy from Dawson's Creek available?!
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And it's been a while but....

Visopinions strike back!

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i'm shook

at the very least, it was a lot more fun than some movies on this list

i'm curious - did everyone that ranked it low actually rewatch it? I would have shoved it to the bottom of my list too just from memory, but i'm glad i didn't. it was a breath of fresh ass. My only regret is that I should have split up the other comedies away from it instead of watching in release order

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Yes sadly I rewatched it lol. I rewatched all the ones I had seen prior to keep it fair.
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Good start. Not sure if I would have put it in last place, but definitely close.

At least the producer got to finally achieve his lifelong dream of putting a giant mechanical spider in a movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_West#Writing

Jon Peters produced the film alongside director Sonnenfeld. In a 2002 Q&A event that appears on An Evening with Kevin Smith, filmmaker Kevin Smith talked about working with Peters on a fifth potential Superman film in 1997, revealing that Peters had three demands for the script. The first demand was that Superman not wear the suit, the second was that Superman not fly, and the third was to have Superman fight a giant spider in the third act.[11] After Tim Burton came on board, Smith's script was scrapped and the film was never produced due to further complications. A year later, he noted that Wild Wild West, with Peters on board as producer, was released with the inclusion of a giant mechanical spider in the final act.[12] Neil Gaiman also said that Peters insisted that a giant mechanical spider be included in a proposed film adaptation of The Sandman.[13]

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CoolCly posted...

it was a breath of fresh ass.

I don't know if this was intentional but this made me crack up.

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Saw WWW for the first time in early 2019 and was thoroughly depressed by it. Batman & Robin is genuinely funnier. Not a single joke in the former even amused me.

Also it did not have the same director as Independence Day.

Also no Unforgiven?

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Yesmar_ posted...

At least the producer got to finally achieve his lifelong dream of putting a giant mechanical spider in a movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_West#Writing

Apparently it actually wasn't his idea originally.

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I didn't rewatch it because I had never watched it before, this was the first time. And it sucked

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Yesmar_ posted...

Neil Gaiman also said that Peters insisted that a giant mechanical spider be included in a proposed film adaptation of The Sandman.

please do not let this guy produce any movies again

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Even better, Peters has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women.

His past credits include the likes of Caddyshack and the Tim Burton Batman films, but he has never actually been involved with a film since 2001's Ali (starring Will Smith). He was credited as a producer for Superman Returns, Man of Steel, and the 2018 version of A Star is Born for contractual reasons however.

Apparently the spider tank was present in the original script and Peters tried to get it replaced with a mechanical flying machine instead, with the director holding firm. Peters still got his way in many other respects though - the scene where Will Smith dresses in drag was his idea because he thought it was funny. Knowing what others have said about him...all too reminiscent of Harvey Weinstein demanding a lesbian sex scene in Frida.

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Im surprised now the giant spider wasnt wearing a dress. Yikes.

Next movie will drop tonight! Heres a small hint. And I mean that literally because the title of #29 only has one word in it.
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Since WWW is out, I'm gonna guess 29 is McClintock! I hate how that exclamation point makes it seem like I'm really enthusiastic about that guess.

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Forced enthusiasm: marketing at its finest!
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they had to put tons of excitement into the title to make up for john wayne playing the lead

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I would bet against McLintock! showing up next, there's a much worse one word movie that's already been hinted at!

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I'm seconding McClintock?

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You were close. It was a John Wayne movie...

#29. Stagecoach 164 points

CoolCly 17
Pokewars 21
Inviso 22
Johnbobb 23
Stifled 26
Karo 27
KBM 28

Very poor plot synopsis:
Imagine there are a bunch of people trapped in an elevator. Now imagine the elevator is using Super Nintendo Mode-7 and is being pulled by horses. For good measure, imagine the horse-drawn elevator being attacked by a tribe of Native Americans for reasons no one will bother to explain very well. Oh, and this one dude on the elevator with you is a wanted criminal, but pay that no mind. Hes a GREAT GUY.

Why it was included:
Believe it or not, Stagecoach was a big deal when it came out. Westerns were considered a sort of b-movie type of entertainment around this time. Then Stagecoach came along and people started taking them more seriously. Along with the genre itself, director John Ford, and star John Wayne also got huge career boosts from Stagecoach. As if that werent enough, Stagecoach was also an originator of the toss a bunch of people with different personality quirks together in a tight space or bad situation trope found in many movies, including a few others on this list! This is also probably the most stereotypical western kind of western on the list with outlaws, battles with the Natives, horses, the cavalry coming to the rescue, saloons, frontier scenery porn, and more all crammed into one movie. For better or worse, I am definitely doing my job showing you folks the history of the genre.

What Stifled thinks:
Despite the low ranking, I actually quite enjoyed Stagecoach. It suffered from the treatment of Native Americans as a group of feral wild animals out for blood, of course. And I could care so less about Ringos tacked on bullshit at the end of the film. But the chemistry between the cast was quite good. The excellent battle on the moving stagecoach was the best part of the movie, and should have served as the climax, save for a small scene or two afterwards. Forget saying it was good for its time, that sequence was good for any time. I was impressed. Also, any Disneys Robin Hood fans out there probably noticed the voice of Friar Tuck was the driver of the stagecoach!
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CoolCly: I really didnt know what to expect with such old movies. Im not sure I even realized they made movies in 1939, and I certainly didnt think they would have things figured out like good writing and acting. But this movie surprised me, and was a great way to start the viewing. The ensemble here is very strong with each passenger of the stage having their own distinctive and memorable character, and the interactions and conflicts among them were good.

I liked the main lawmans acting, and John Wayne was pretty solid. Doc Boon was an interesting character. His alcoholism is treated as a problem, especially when they need to call on him for his expertise, though they really joke it off at the end. His scene in the bar at the end where he stands up to the guys going to the shootout is really good.

Hatfields glee at shooting Apache Indians is very strange to see after his stern demeanor the entire movie coming up to this. His intent to shoot the woman with his last bullet to spare her from being captured but getting shot offscreen first and dropping the gun was surprisingly dark.
The charming rogue with a heart of gold really is timeless. Whether its Starlord today, or Han Solo 40 years ago, or John Waynes Ringo in 1939, there he is. His decency towards the woman is pretty nice, always standing up for her when shes clearly the outcast and not giving an F that shes a hooker.

The action is really just people riding and chasing after the stagecoach while the stagecoach shoot at them one by one but it was actually pretty fun to watch. It was an engaging start to the action with the Docs toast and Mr Peacock getting arrowed like that. The stunt of the guy jumping on the horses and then getting shot several times with Ringo was pretty good. Did that guy literally get trampled by horses?? Fucking LOL at the cavalry showing up with their bugle and waving sabres around.

The shootout at the end was super quick, but the build up to it was pretty good. I had no idea who that guy that wanted to kill Ringo even was but the tension was palpable in town, and the Doc standing up to that dude in the bar was pretty nice.

All in all, Im really impressed with this movie. The cast and plotting were very strong. The aging of the film making does hold this back a bit but I think this establishes a firm baseline on what a western can be. I expect any other Western on the list to exceed what Stagecoach did in 1939, and if it doesnt and falls below it in my list, then it wasnt worth watching.

5.5/10

Pokewars: I enjoy the group dynamics in movies where they all have different motivations, points-of view. Cast plays off each other well, and we get some solid action for such an older film.

Inviso: On paper, I should like this movie a lot more than I do. Its right up my alley of throwing together a disparate group of personalities and forcing them to work together in a relatively-enclosed storyline. But ultimately, the personalities themselves are a little bit too flat and one-dimensional, and they dont play off each other very well. Yeah, everyone interacts with one another well enough, but its like unless you have a very specific relationship (Kid/Curley or Kid/Dallas), then the story is painted as surface-level conversations at best. This leads to the plot feeling very dry, and this wasnt a particularly interesting watch. I will say its hilarious to see John Wayne, who looks grizzled and old regardless of the movie, called The Ringo Kid. But thats all I really have to say.

Johnbobb: There's definitely a portion of films on this list that I'm not dreading but not necessarily looking forward to. The "John Wayne is charming but also racist, pilgrim" era. Here Wayne shines by being the only person to treat the prostitute (I assume that's what was implied) as literal garbage. Don't know if it's indicative of the times or just society in general that the actively wanted escaped criminal is treated with more compassion and welcoming than the sex worker looking for a better life. I do love the concept of unrelated strangers with completely different backstories being forced together under dire circumstances and learning things they have in common. It's a concept that's been done thousands of times since though, and often better, as man of these are pretty thinly developed characters. Overall, not bad.

Karo: This fat moron runs the west's first taxi service and we see how many weird characters he can manage to fit into one stagecoach including but not limited to, a drunkard, a convict, and the worlds thinnest pregnant woman.
The first half of the film is just basically like playing Oregon Trail except less interesting and without the dysentery, and I am waiting for SOMETHING to happen to just make the agony stop.
Finally something does happen and they get ambushed by indians, which of course end up as nothing but fodder for our reject cowboys to carelessly murder for their audacity to try and resist genocide.
Even after what is seemingly the climax they randomly go off with the convict trying to get his revenge on a bunch of guys who put him in jail, which the marshal just lets happen because what is wrong with everyone in this movie. Predictably, they meet in the street in the center of town, but because they are just so stupid they confuse AM with PM and have a showdown at high midnight. Said showdown is anticlimatic and not even shown because of course it isnt.
Fuck right off with this cheap old-timey rubbish.

KBM: The most enjoyment I got out of this was whenever the characters would say the name Geronimo and the soundtrack would play this totally overbearing Villain Sting music. That aspect of this movie was pretty fun. Other than that, though, this really isn't one that stands the test of time. In fact, this movie is sort of indicative of what I went into this project THINKING most Westerns would be like, and why I expected to enjoy this list of films a good deal less than I ended up doing. I realize this codified a lot of the big Western tropes, but they're just tropes I don't enjoy. A few mildly interesting character moments aside (once you ignore all the Confederate sympathizing ugh), it just all devolves into a dull let's see how many of these evil savage Injuns we can shoot third act that simultaneously bores me and turns my stomach with its intrinsic dehumanization. I can see why this launched John Wayne into the spotlight, though he's actually all right here, and even proves he can emote a little bit on occasion. But overall, this one (like so many John Ford movies, imo) is wildly overrated.
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OUTLIER

Inviso 23
CoolCly 23
Karo 9
Johnbobb 9
Poke 8
Stifled 5
KBM 1

CoolCly hops in the stagecoach with Inviso and speeds away from the rest of the pack. Karo, Johnbobb, Poke, and Stifled were in not-so-hot pursuit of the stagecoach for reasons they could not explain. KBM just kept saying Geronimo over and over again to trigger the amusing soundtrack.
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All the guesses for bottom rankings has me chuckling, "I'm in danger."


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StifledSilence posted...

Here Wayne shines by being the only person to treat the prostitute (I assume that's what was implied) as literal garbage.

This was a typo on my end, should've been the only person to not treat her like garbage

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i'm shook

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The board's bias against older movies never sits well with me.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

The board's bias against older movies never sits well with me.

There is no shortage of poorly aged movies in this list

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Admittedly that's fair, but still. The idea of someone being astonished that there were even movies made in 1939 is kind of precious considering the most successful movie of all time came out that year.

Then again my favorite movie of all time involves brownface.

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Tag

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Also tag

Geronimo

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Admittedly that's fair, but still. The idea of someone being astonished that there were even movies made in 1939 is kind of precious considering the most successful movie of all time came out that year.

Then again my favorite movie of all time involves brownface.

Thats how you learn though. Folks not well versed in movie history wouldnt assume the technology was available in the 30s. Its a fun and interesting fact to learn. Same goes for any subject. Im not going to pretend I know the history of medical technology, for example.
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I guess, I just thought Gone with the Wind and The Wizard of Oz were assuredly too well-known.

Yeah I saw Gone with the Wind for the first time two years ago and loved it. Albeit with the qualifier being it's one of the few old movies which I'd say is actually hurt by values dissonance.

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i really doubt stagecoach is worse than 28 other westerns and if it is its definitely not worse than the ones from this selection lmao

hopefully no one takes you guys seriously and they seek out john ford westerns anyway.

btw criterion channel just uploaded the ranown cycle that budd boetticher and randolph scott did together. you guys should watch those.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

The board's bias against older movies never sits well with me.

That's why I didn't participate. I saw this list a few months ago, and I'd already seen all of them (except Prospect), but I never liked how the classics almost always get bottom tier on this board. I'm fine participating with an all modern list here, but the auto-trashing of objectively good things from people who don't really understand, I just don't like reading very much, except to poke fun at occasionally. Participating would make me feel culpable.

Zithers posted...

hopefully no one takes you guys seriously and they seek out john ford westerns anyway.

You won't win anyone over by phrasing it like that, but then again, the people who feel attacked by that probably don't post on movie sites anyway, so they wouldn't watch it no matter how you worded it. Just have to accept that some places on the internet aren't really movie hotspots.

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