Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks: Westerns! The Official Results Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

#16. Young Guns 121 points (won tiebreaker over Shanghai Noon)

Karo 9
Inviso 10
KBM - 15
Stifled 15
Pokewars 16
CoolCly 28
Johnbobb - 28

Very poor plot synopsis:
Before starting up a hockey team, Gordon Bombay teamed up with Jack Bauer to kill a bunch of evil wild west types in order to avenge their British stepdad.

Why it was included:
This movie really is fascinating. Popular westerns were in short supply in the 80s, except for a few from Clint Eastwood, a few comedies, and one with Danny Glover. But here you have members of what was called The Brat Pack doing a western of all things! At this point, we were used to rom-coms and other such coming of age types of flicks from them, so a western was some out of nowhere kind of shit. Naturally, such an oddity deserves a place on the list.

What Stifled thinks:
So a bunch of Hollywood up-and-comers team up for a western in a decade with very little representation in the genre. Was it any good? Actually, yes! We know a lot of these folks like Emilio Estevez and Kiefer Sutherland NOW, but they were relatively fresh faces back then. By all accounts, this was a HUGE risk to take, but it paid off! I think its quite good and feels like a slightly updated and edgier version of the style of westerns most of us are probably accustomed to. The cast has fantastic chemistry, first and foremost. Calling them pals is very appropriate because I would legitimately believe their friendships extended outside of the film if you told me so (they actually did!). Individually, they all bring a lot to their respective roles, but Emilio steals the damn show. His take on Billy the Kid is excellent, demonstrating a perfect blend of insanity and playfulness. The interesting thing too is how good his instincts are despite his penchant for murder. For example, he correctly sniffed out a traitor among them and blew his sorry ass away. In that moment, he went from being the begrudgingly accepted outsider to the group to their leader. The varying degrees to which the rest of the group respond to Billys mayhem are a fascinating dynamic to watch.

The action is damn good too! Billy straight up goes Looney Tunes on that bounty hunter looking for him yet does not recognize him. They actually fight someone taking a shit. They even have a big ass shootout with seemingly a whole army from inside a guys house! The emotional stakes become high by the end of the film because you dont want any of the pals to die. Unfortunatelywell you know. Charlie getting killed especially hurt. But Charlie also getting that cathartic kill on the guy he was once terrified of was perfect. Speaking ofEmilios characters get attached to someone named Charlie a lot, dont they?

Unfortunately, Young Guns suffers from a very big and very dumb drawback. The scene where they all get stoned and go to the spirit world was incredible fucking stupid and a waste of time. And likemaybe even sort of offensive? They were treating doing peyote and wandering around nature as a Native American ceremony. Far be it from me to tell anyone what is or isnt a proper Native custom, but I KIND OF THINK this isnt one. Cutting room floor, people. Use it, please! But whether or not you skip that junk, Young Guns is still a great watch and a good time.
---

Karo: When a bunch of young delinquent cowboys see their 'daddy' get murdered, they all become deputies to hunt the villains down. In the rich tradition of american law enforcement they repeatedly shoot up defenseless suspects cause they 'had it coming'.
Billy really carries the movie with his barely-hinged and unpredictable manner calling to mind a wild west Joker, and every scene with him was very entertaining.
The ending really strains the believability where like four people take on the entire fucking army or something in a gunfight (the real billy the kid had around fifty men with him in this incident).
Other than Billy no character really stands out other than having their actor be really familiar, it is an average cowboy movie overall.

Inviso: This is an interesting character study, because by all accounts, Billy the Kid is portrayed as crazy and self-destructive, yet by sheer virtue of the plot being told, he winds up in the hero role. Really though, the whole premise is intriguing. You have a band of orphans (?) who set out to avenge their foster father after hes killed at the hands of a rival gang leader (essentially). Though they try to do things the right way, initiallyBillys not exactly a by the book kind of guy. Billys violent streak screws over EVERYONE, yet his undaunting attitude and utter refusal to back down from any stance he holds, seems to inspire cultlike devotion as any misgivings fade away. Hell, one of his gang abandons his new wife to go on a revenge rampage with Billy. If thats not loyalty, I dont know what is. The only real problem is that its got a slow start, and some of the non-Billy/Charlie/Doc characters are underutilized. But thats not the biggest of deals, surely.

KBM: This movie was hilarious. Really made me wish that more westerns had been made in the '80s, because this combination of Old West gunplay, the Brat Pack, synth beats and electric guitar solos? I'd never seen anything quite like Young Guns before. From what I understand, too, this is a fairly historically accurate depiction of Billy the Kid as much so as the generous helping of '80s cheese allows for, anyway. Frankly, though, the historicity of the movie isn't the draw here. It's that rad intro where all the players are introduced by turning to the camera or taking their bandannas off as their names appear on the screen. It's the scene with the crazy/awesome peyote trip that, hilariously, everybody but Charlie Sheen goes on. It's that rockin' eighties soundtrack that chimes in during action scenes on occasion. And hell, that cast! While they're not all given the deepest material you've ever seen, it's always fun to see so many talented character actors doing what they do. Terence Stamp and Terry O'Quinn in particular were both pleasant surprises as was Emilio Estevez's performance, which was probably the best acting I've seen from him. (And I always love seeing Kiefer Sutherland in things.) I can see why this didn't fare so well with critics, but honestly, westerns are a style-over-substance genre anyway, so the shortcomings in its screenplay didn't bother me too much. I could have done with a little less racism, but at least in this case it seemed like an intentional narrative choice to have a couple characters be racist towards Chavez because this takes place in 1870s New Mexico, rather than just the screenwriters showing their asses. (You can definitely tell we've entered the post-Saddles Revisionist Western era on the list when you're watching chronologically.)

Poke: A lot of familiar stars pack into this film. I liked how they all played off each other and formed a brotherhood. And apparently, its quite true to historical accounts, which is always interesting.
---

CoolCly: The concept of this story is solid but the execution is just awful. I started out thinking this was a decently well made movie with some significant problems, but it the problems stacked up towards the end that made this. I think the jump in picture quality for 1988 over earlier movies fooled me into thinking this was a better made movie, but picture quality doesnt make a movie.

I like the atmosphere around this guy collecting strays. Like he really believes the way of life he's leading. But the choices they make are completely at odds with what he wanted, and unfortunately, I don't think the film is really that self aware about it.

The kids are a bit awkward to be introduced to and learn about, and there are so many that I didn't form distinct impressions of all of them. They rushed way too fast into killing their benefactor without really establishing their bonds and how bought in they are into what he's doing. I doubt I could name or even point out half of them even right after the movie.

The romance with the asian girl follows along with that - it doesn't feel real at all. She has even less purpose and agency than the women in the older Western movies.

Then it's just straight to the boys attacking and shooting people. It really glosses over them getting authority to do this, and then they just start ambushing people. There's conflict between the boys on whether to kill or capture but it's all happening so quickly it doesn't really work. The pace is just too fast.

The vision quest could have been a neat concept, but again. Doing stuff like this with characters you haven't gotten me familiar enough with and invested enough makes it fall flat, and it just comes across as a very exploitative "oh yeah we have a native lets use native magic"

I dislike it when these Westerns line characters up to talk shit in situations where they are VERY clearly in a terrible position, just because I guess it makes them seem dangerous or cool. Like this old guy that comes up and says he's gonna take the Kid and all the rest of them for their bounties. He's standing in the open in front of them with a rifle in each hand that are not held at all like they are ready to fire. He boldly says he's come to get them and they are all standing line up in front of them. Then he declare "lets dance" to begin the fighting... and drops one of his rifles and then moves to cock his other rifle and kneel to start shooting.... and the boys all start running. And the guy misses for a while! It's so dumb - even if these guys arent fast on the draw, which we are supposed to think that they are, they should still kill this guy before he shoots one of them. It's just a complete failure of competent filmmaking. I'd let this go a little in earlier movies, but the good earlier movies actually tended to do this decently, and some did it masterfully. It's unforgivable at this point that Young Guns is doing this. They didn't sell at all that this old guy is faster on the draw than them or in a position that would be tough for them to fight back against.

Charlie just gets married out of nowhere. This story really decides to make no sense. It's there JUST to give him a choice whether to ride with them? They are on the run and shouldn't even be able to be in towns that easily without being caught.

I'm not sure if this was just my streaming service, but the final charge out of the shootout at the end was very choppy and slow motion. It was terrible. It seems like this was a stylistic choice and it didn't work at all.

The exposition epilogue to quickly wrap things up for everyone was just straight up awful.
Overall, this movie sucked in just about every way. It had a lot of potential with this cast and the premise, but it blew it to pieces.

2.5/10

Johnbobb: fuckin boooooooring. I'm gonna make a somewhat controversial claim and say that, with the sole exception of sci-fi, the 80s were a bad decade for movies. For every instant classic like Aliens or Back to the Future, there's like 5 bland brat pack schlock like this. I mean, who hears "Emilio Estevez, Dermot Mulrooney, and fuckin Charlie Sheen" and thinks "WESTERN." Every single person here looks like they've just arrived to cash in a check, and not a big one at that.
---

OUTLIER

Poke 119
CoolCly 97
Inviso 92
Johnbobb 77
KBM 76
Karo 71
Stifled 56

The pals all had a Bon Jovi song written about them when they failed to take down evil land baron Poke. Maybe they should have laid off the peyote?
---

geez that took way too long

---

Shanghai Noon was OKAY

Young Guns is a BAD MOVIE

The Last Jedi is a VERY BAD MOVIE

---

This list is getting interesting.

---

the last jedi is great, top 3 star wars movie for sure

---

Zithers posted...

the last jedi is great, top 3 star wars movie for sure

ok i agreed with most of the movie opinions you posted in this topic but what?

---

Zithers posted...

the last jedi is great, top 3 star wars movie for sure

finally a good take

---

All I knew about Young Guns was that it was fairly popular when it came out but that Siskel & Ebert both panned it and it has a low RT score (41% on looking it up). Kind of surprised it landed so high but I guess people have nostalgia for a lot of '80s films?

I was trying to think of the last '80s movie I watched that I did not like. It was The Presidio, which I found to be junk beyond its action scenes, cinematography, and Sean Connery's performance. The whole romance between Mark Harmon and Meg Ryan takes up way too much of the film and the plot amounts to a piss-poor excuse for a thriller. I would rather re-watch Rise of Skywalker.

---

The Last Jedi is either the 3rd or 4th best of the 11 Star Wars movies. Definitely uneven, but it's the only one of the sequel trilogy that actually wanted to move the series in a direction that wasn't just slavish nostalgia. It also looks a million times better than any of the prequels or other sequels

---

What have I done?

---

Last Jedi is easily bottom three Star Wars. While you could argue the other two sequel trilogy movies are heavy on nostalgia, Last Jedi was clearly made by a crew that doesnt even like Star Wars and just wanted to change it into something else.
---

please lets get back to talking about bad cowboy movies

---

So how's about that Cad Bane huh?

---

#15. The Magnificent Seven 118 points

CoolCly 2
Inviso 16
KBM 17
Pokewars 18
Karo - 20
Johnbobb 22
Stifled 23

Very poor plot synopsis:
A group of ungrateful, worthless villagers try to prevent the women from getting raped by hiding them in the woods where rapists could more easily find them. Oh and something about seven samurehemcowboys helping them or whatever.

Why it was included:
Mag Seven is an interesting film, as its reputation was not great upon release. Quite the fact, it bombed at the US box office (interestingly, not in other countries, especially in the European market) and had mixed critical reviews. It aged like a fine wine, however, due to a number of factors. Firstly, The Magnificent Seven was a remake of Akira Kurosawas The Seven Samurai. Kurosawa himself was impressed with the film and presented Mag Sevens director, John Sturges, with a sword. Secondly, the future fame of the films cast, particularly Steve McQueen, caused many to give Mag Seven another chance. With more and more people willing to watch with a fresh perspective, The Magnificent Seven was shown far more often on TV. It became the second highest watched movie on television behind The Wizard of Oz. Even fictional characters, such as the gang on Cheers were tuning in to watch! Its a Wonderful Life comes to mind as another film that began as a bust but turned into so much more down the line. When a western is comparable to a holiday staple like George Fucking Bailey, you know it belongs on this list.

What Stifled thinks:
The villagers in this movie rival High Noon for the worst, dumbest, and most ungrateful sacks of crap in any western Ive seen. Obviously, there were a few nice ones sprinkled in to ensure the audience gives at least a LITTLE BIT of sympathy toward them, but they are mostly turds. But luckily, none of them are the titular protagonists of the film! Im happy to report the Seven are well written characters with a level of depth I was not expecting. A PTSD storyline? Color me surprised and impressed! But the standout for me was definitely Chico. That ballsy fellow was down for anything, even espionage! And of course he got himself a hot lady at the end. You go, Chico. You da man! Oh and speaking of being DA MAN, motherfucking TUCO was the baddie in this one! I swear, you could cast Eli Wallach as the villain in pretty much any movie and Id be thrilled.

Hold your butts, however, because all of the good stuff I named took nearly half a movie to get to. I found the first half to be too slow. Not bad, mind you, but just very slow. A nice trip to the cutting room floor may have been beneficial. But my goodness, once act two kicked off we were rolling with character development, kick ass action, and even some snappy lines like those kids telling Charles Bronson Well make sure there are always fresh flowers on your grave! What sucks is their joke ended up being completely true! I was shocked at how many of those poor bastards dropped by the end of the big final showdown. The MagnifiDED Seven is more like it. Im actually very interested in rewatching Mag Seven at a later date with different expectations. But for now, Im going to rank it kind of low.
---

CoolCly: We were magnificently seven movies into this project and the opening funeral hearse scene was the first genuinely *fun* scene in the project. Music did a good job of telling you this is a fun scene, but the performances of the two guys sold it.

Id seen the remake with Denzel and Chriss Pratt a few years ago, and I thought it was okay, but after I saw this movie, the remake sucked. I really loved the original here. I thought the seven were all demonstrated introduced well, and I really liked them all. Every character is fantastic. The only iffy one is the kid, hes really too dumb and pathetic in some scenes, but he serves a good role and elevates the other characters big time.

The knife guy introduction was a WAY better scene in this than the remake. Rather than someone just throwing knives in gun draw competitions just commonly, its one butthurt guy protecting his ego.

I love the way the seven just seem to have an unspoken respect for each others abilities, and they can communicate with each other with the slightest gesture or say a whole lot with just a couple words. Take one alive. Yes.

There was a lot of REALLY cool horse stunts Im actually shocked at a lot of the things they did. The best of all the movies in this project. The kid seems more acrobatic in what he does with horses than martial artists in movies today.

Miguel, the leader of the townsfolk looking for help, was really well done. We view the seven, larger than life cowboys, through the lens of this poor villager, and he adds a ton.
I see this movie as a masterpiece, and I loved every moment of it. It really makes me want to watch Seven Samurai.

10/10

Inviso: This was okay enough for a two-hour movie. The characters werent GREAT or anything, but they also werent terrible. And there was enough diversity of personality among the Seven to get somewhat invested in their respective stories. I wish that Yul Brynner and Steve McQueens characters felt a little more fleshed out, because among the rest of the group, you had the cowardly Lee, dealing with his trauma, you had Chico being immature and obnoxious, you had Bernardo bonding with the villages kids, and you had Harry, who only stuck around for a paycheck. Only Britt was kinda forgettable among them, yet its Chris (Yul) and Vin (Steve) who wind up as two thirds of the surviving cast. Still, its a good enough movie where you have a group of mercenaries coming together to protect a town from bad guys. The plot has been repeated time and time again throughout the modern era, but its not BAD. Its just not on the level of films I ranked higher that I actively enjoyed watching.

KBM: So, I made the mistake* of watching Seven Samurai before I watched this. On its own merits, The Magnificent Seven is a really fun action Western with some great performances Charles Bronson and James Coburn especially stand out in this stacked ensemble cast. But because it's a Western with gunplay and not a samurai film with swords, arrows, and a slow-burn siege (and also because American films generally aren't allowed to be 4 hours long), it all wraps up so quickly at the end and ends up making everything feel like a bit of an anticlimax given the amount of build-up everyone got. Still definitely a good movie, and I enjoyed seeing how the various scenes from the original were adapted, at times nearly shot-for-shot, at times with more liberties taken (like giving an actual face to the leader of the bandits, with Eli Wallach relishing the role of lead villain). I probably would have ranked this a bit higher had I not seen the quintessential version of this story immediately before it, but it is still really good its placement more a testament to the strength of the upper half of this list than anything else.

* - This was not actually a mistake. Seven Samurai is one of the best movies I've ever seen, and I couldn't be happier that this list inspired me (albeit indirectly) to watch it. You should all go carve out a four-hour block and watch it if you haven't before. It's super worth it.

Poke: I regret that I couldnt find a Seven Samurai with consistent subtitles, so I had to watch this first. It was a fine, straightforward story. Wish there were more camaraderie scenes with the seven. They all seemed to be isolated at times in their own side plots, but overall a decent film

Karo: Mexican villagers hire seven gunslinging mercenaries to protect their town from bandits. Y'know, like that samurai movie! Only this time with cowboys!
Anyway, right off the bat it is clear this film is going to suffer from too many character syndrome, people are thrown into our little crew arbitrarily and with little fanfare, and despite the movie's length half the cast feels underdeveloped. Its like well there was seven samurai so we've got to have seven cowboys at any cost.
The story is overly drawn out yet doesnt really have anything to show for it. If you arent going to bother making the characters more interesting just have everyone kill each other already and stop wasting my time.
The final shootout sees the seven reduced to three, all of whom are shot because these professional gunmen are apparently incapable of using cover correctly.
It really lacks any notability beyond being a ripoff of another movie and there is nothing magnificent to find here.

Johnbobb: Around a year or two ago I watched Seven Samurai for the first time, and it was pretty incredible. This was alright.
---

OUTLIER

Poke 122
CoolCly 110
Inviso 93
Johnbobb 84
KBM 78
Karo 76
Stifled 64

A very special thank you to our Magnificent Seven Rankers at the halfway point! CoolCly, the man who single-handedly moved The Magnificent Seven up a bunch of spots, has caught up to Poke. Everyone else is just staying put in the village for now.
---

I might be mistaken but this movie was a remake of Marvel's Avengers wasn't it?

---

Snake5555555555 posted...

I might be mistaken but this movie was a remake of Marvel's Avengers wasn't it?

Mhmm the Seven SAMurai. They all had wings in the original.
---

"So that's it, huh? We're some kind of The Magnificent Seven?"

---

I actually said to my brother that these guys were like the cowboy Avengers right after I saw it

I'm gonna trigger the fuck out of Zithers but both the Magnificent Seven and The Avengers are GREAT movies

---

Huh, just watched Seven Samurai today. Need to watch Mag.Seven again.

---

#14. Django 113 points

Johnbobb 5
Stifled 6
KBM 8
Inviso 20
Pokewars 20
Karo 24
CoolCly - 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
The first movie of the Djangoverse, Django features the origin story of the first Django before he makes a cameo in Django Unchained and talks to that Django.

Why it was included:
I was extremely fascinated over just how much this film inspired Quentin Tarantinos Django Unchained. At first, I thought it was just a coincidence of nomenclature considering the ridiculous amount of westerns that exist with the Django name without any relation to the original. But as I started watching, I couldnt contain my glee upon hearing the Django song at the beginning! Depending on your level of interest in Spaghetti Westerns (Italian Westerns), you may only have heard of Sergio Leone, the director of the Dollars Trilogy, among others. However, right up there with Leone is Sergio Corbucci, director of two on this list (Django and The Great Silence), among others. Where Corbucci differs from Leone is in the level of violence in his films. Django was initially panned by critics in Italy due to its violent nature, and it was even banned in the UK until 1993! There were limited screenings in America upon its release and movie goers ate that shit up. In fact, Django is often in the conversation for what are considered the best Spaghetti Westerns. I would be a rotten host if I didnt take you guys on a bloody tour of Italy, so Django belongs on this list.

What Stifled thinks:
I dont know what I was expecting to be in that coffin. The song made me think perhaps it was the remains of the girl he lost. The Mariachi Trilogy made me think it was a shitload of guns. But oh my sweet lord I did not see the GAT coming. A good gunfight will amuse me every time without fail. But Django mowing down a bunch of fools with a gatling gun? Holy shit dude. I was cackling the entire time. I LOVED it. Even if for some reason I forget everything else about Django, I will always remember that.

But the fact is, this movie is unforgettable. Django is a bad motherfucker. He does similar things to the Man with No Name in the Dollars Trilogy as far as being a quick draw gold thief is concerned. Playing two sides against each other, stealing the treasure when his allies are caught unaware, blowing away every poor bastard that gets in his way, etc. He even has to fight the final battle with crushed hands! Clint took a beating in Fistful of Dollars, but he didnt have to fire a gun with crushed hands! Ill go out on a limb and say the two best protagonists on this list are both named Django.
---

Johnbobb: fuck yeah fuck you fuck those guys fuck that guy fuck your horse fuck your gold fuck your bottles fuck everything pew pew pew djaaaaaangoooooooooo

KBM: Maybe the most purely badass film on the list. You can definitely see why so many people have been inspired by this character over the years. This movie is a great example of economy of storytelling, telling a fully-fledged story in 90 minutes, the vast majority of which is told visually. The dialogue is just a bonus here. Franco Nero's performance here is amazing (particularly considering he was just 23 when the movie was filmed). And it has a sense of humor, to boot, morbid though it may be. This one's really great.

Inviso: Despite its comparatively short runtime, this movie just didnt do it for me. Dont get me wrong; I burst out laughing when Django finally opened his coffin and pulled out a goddamn chaingun out of nowhere. Unfortunately, the scene happens so early into the film that the plot can really only go downhill from there. Granted, the final scene, with the broken-handed Django taking out six Klansmen, is pretty good, but Ive seen that sort of thing done better in Shoot Em Up. Django himself is a void of charisma, who manages to fill the stereotypical role of lone gunman with all the grace of a block of wood. If not for the comedy stylings of the Mexican army, or the outright pathetic portrayal of the KKK, this couldve been a forgettable film. I will get credit where credit it due though. That credit song is pretty damn sweet.

Poke: Its run-of-the mill Spaghetti western which isnt a bad thing. I enjoyed it, but its hard to say its on par with some of the other films of its sub-genre.

Karo: So a stereotypical mysterious lone gunman and his pet coffin end up at the border where he shoots people and hustles bandits in what seems like some shitty direct-to-video ripoff of the dollars trilogy.
But unlike the nuanced films from the other director named Sergio, this is a bizarre mess of machine gun wielding cowboys, mud wrestling hookers, confederate cultists, quicksand pits and shakeycam bar fights that is only entertaining in how bad it is.
Django's motivations are murky at best, and at worst? well....
He's out for revenge against Jackson except now he's doing a mexican gold heist and now he's betraying his old friends for whatever reason he likes the girl now he doesnt like the girl but now he likes her now Jackson must die at all costs so he let him live twice. Fucking writing how does it work.
Who knows what is going on in Django's head, he doesnt talk a whole lot and when he does it is melodramatic bullshit that tells me nothing other than he is probably high as fuck on peyote.
There really is no redeeming feature to this flick other than the theme song...
...which you can also hear in Tarantinos movie.
This Django should not only stay chained, it should also be sealed in ten cubic feet of solid lead and sunk into the deepest crevice in the mariana trench.

CoolCly: The audio in this movie is very distracting. The dubbing is bad, and the music is loud and overbearing rather than improving scenes. The Dollars trilogy does the same dubbing, but it feels seamless and works out great.

The soldier guys being cartoonishly evil and killing exicans for fun is pretty meh. It doesnt really make me think they are intimidating or anything.

The scene in the hotel where the major and some soldiers try to get Django and he shoots them all from his spot sitting wasnt good. The tension of the scene was really lacking and it just doesnt physically make sense that Django could hit everybody from his spot like that. That really hurts these scenes when it doesnt seem impressive it just doesnt work. It feels like the director things adding more to a shootout like this makes even cooler than a quick draw that would happen in the Dollars trilogy, but it doesnt.
The chaingun to gun down all of the marshalls clansmen felt like a further extension of that mindset. Its just tons of violence without purpose, and wasnt really engaging. The Dollars trilogy even has a similar scene, but the purpose is to demonstrate how fucking crazy Ramone was, not just senseless violence itself.

The movie gets even worse with the interpersonal relationships. The woman trying to thank Django for saving her saying he made her feel like a real woman is CRIIIIINGE. The dialogue when the innkeeper tries to talk him out of fighting the marshall man, its all just horrible.

Django himself, in a charitable view, is a mystery in what he actually wants and what his morals really are. Really, its just unexplored and inconsistent. Does he care about the woman he saved? Does he literally not give a shit? Is he just after the gold? Does he *change* later in the movie? His actions are so back and forth theres really no way to tell. But hes 100% responsible for the murder of all those soldiers at the fort they raided for gold.

This entire movie is exactly the kind of bad schlock I was afraid this entire list would be. Thankfully, that wasnt the case. Ive heard Quentin Tarantino loves this movie, and a lot of his film making is inspired by it. I can see it the worst part of his film making, the obsession with over the top violence that takes away from scenes, must directly come from Django.

The very last scene with the bloody gun in the cemetery with Django walking away and leaving it behind is actually pretty damn good if the entire movie before it was good, that would have been a great ending. Too bad this movie sucked ass.

1/10
---

OUTLIER

Poke 128
CoolCly 126
Inviso 99
Johnbobb 93
Karo 86
KBM 84
Stifled 74

Despite getting his hands crushed by Cly, Poke manages to fend off the rest of the rankers thanks to the dead movies in his top ten he keeps in his coffin.
---

I single handedly dragged The Magnificent Seven up a bunch of spots, and dragged Django down a bunch of spots! You're all welcome

Django SUCKED and I hated it.

---

Oh what the fuck

---

No Mr. CoolCly, get back, get back! Mr. Mr. CoolCly NOOOOOOO!!!*

*Dramatization may not have happened.


---

CC we about to throw hands now

---

you know, throughout the whole movie, i was desperately trying to grasp on to something i might actually like. maybe there is some deeper meaning to the things Django does? maybe this female lead will earn her place in the movie. maybe one of these side hookers is actually going to do something interesting?

but it was when the innkeeper had to die that it was all over. i could feel it coming so hard. i knew it. this director is going to kill this innkeeper because he just can't help himself. he has to. he knows no restraint. he has no idea when violence is appropriate. when it adds or takes away from a scene. violence must happen at every possible opportunity. it's the only thing he knows.

so the innkeeper died, for like, no reason, and the 1/10 score was locked in. if the director had been able to restrain himself for just that one scene, i probably would have been somewhat moved by the ending, but it checked me out completely.

---

I didn't even know Franco Nero was in Die Hard 2. He's also directing Kevin Spacey's next movie apparently. EDIT: Though apparently it's only a cameo, never mind.

---

For some reason, I'm surprised The Magnificent Seven is already out, even though this about checks out given where the older straight Westerns have placed so far. That being said, I'm also glad it's already out, because I found the movie most people seem to treat as the pinnacle of the genre's American golden age dreadfully boring back when I watched it. That's admittedly pretty high up on the list of reasons I didn't participate in this project.

---

Killing the innkeeper isnt the director not being able to help himself. Its more the final showdown is about to happen, lets get the audience angrier by having the murdering bastards murder some more. The bad guys hadnt been built up as merciful you know.

On that note, I watched both Djangos again today. And Navajo Joe for the first time. Tarantino definitely liked Navajo Joes soundtrack.

Oh btw nothing tonight, pilgrims. Be back tomorrow.
---

Just got back home from Hershey Park. Super tired, nothing tonight.

Double drop tomorrow
---

hershey park is a blast but I haven't been there in years

---

#13. Tombstone 104 points

KBM 10
Inviso 12
Karo 12
CoolCly 14
Pokewars 14
Stifled 18
Johnbobb 24

Very poor plot synopsis:
My Darling Clementine without the Clementine.

Why it was included:
One thing I enjoyed doing with this list is having comparison pieces. The two True Grits, for example, are fascinating to compare for subtle differences, cast performances, and other such things. Tombstone is especially fascinating in comparison with My Darling Clementine. It takes the Earp Bros/Doc Holliday/OK Corral story and goes in a different direction from its predecessor. MDC inserted a love story into the wild west tale, whereas Tombstone sidelines the love story a bit and focuses more on revenge. The main reason I chose Tombstone in particular was to go for the older vs modern comparison. You wont find Tombstone on any GOAT lists for westerns, but it was a financial and critical success. Particularly, Val Kilmer was heavily praised for his performance as Doc. It has also been revealed that Kurt Russell was basically the acting director of the film. During production, there was a director replacement, but Russell claims the new director was there in name only and he was in charge. Val Kilmer has been quoted saying Russell basically was the director, so perhaps the story is true? If the star inmate was truly running the asylum, then I would say the end product is twice as impressive.

What Stifled thinks:
It was interesting to me that Val Kilmer was the big talking point of Tombstone, because I thought he was the strangest part of the film. I enjoyed his performance, but I am undecided as to whether it was good or bad. At times I found myself laughing because of how fucking weird his take on the role was. Other times I was impressed by the depth he brought to the character. Is this by design or because of the aforementioned directing conflicts? Regardless, I cant argue with Kilmer being memorable. In fact, the cast was pretty great in general. I could have done without Earps wife, however. Im not blaming the actress necessarily, but the character herself brought nothing to the proceedings. The movie would be virtually the same if Earp went to Tombstone single and met his new lady.

I definitely enjoyed this more than Clementine overall, mostly because there was no Clementine and the love interest was given appropriate screen time instead of far too much. I will say I think I preferred the Earp/Doc bromance a bit more in Clementine, particularly the scene they are introduced. However, the final scene between Doc and Earp in Tombstone is far more emotionally driven and dwarfs their endgame in MDC. Hmmmaybe that one is a harder choice than I thought! But otherwise, pretty much everything else was upgraded in some way. This is especially true of the action sequences, and the treatment of Earps brothers being killed. I felt Russells performance more accurately reflected a character who lost family. The actor in MDC seemed like he operated on a revenge vs boner light switch the director flipped at will. Russell, on the other hand, executed fools with a fiery passion. I will take the latter every time.
---

KBM: On a list full of star-studded casts, Tombstone might feature the most stacked cast list of them all. The screenplay has some flaws, but it does a remarkable job of balancing its characters' screentime so as to never become overly confusing. It's also just a really fun watch one of the most purely enjoyable movies on this list, never feeling either too long or underdeveloped. It would take way too long to list all the performances I love in this movie, but Val Kilmer is a standout among standouts as Doc Holliday. Just a damn good time.

Inviso: Its weird watching this after watching My Darling Clementine, because they portray the same general version of events in startlingly different fashions. There are so many big names in this movie though: Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Michael Biehn, Bill Paxton, and Sam Elliott, and they just add an aura of intensity to the proceedings. I love the fact that, rather than being the beacon of righteousness hed eventually become, Wyatt Earp and his brothers are kinda grifters at the start of the film, rapidly ascending the social hierarchy of their new home. But you cant really teach an old dog new tricks, and as bad guys go too wild in the town, the lawmen feel the need to step in and take the reins. Its all great, especially just how ruthless everyone is in the movie. I couldve done with less of the romantic subplots, because the female characters felt very poorly-written overall, but the action and general gunfight mentality was solid and enjoyable.

Karo: Another tale about the Earp brothers and the events that transpired in the most unfortunately named town in arizona.
Rather then ending at the gunfight at the okay corral as usual, this movie ops to go on for another 50 minutes and the results are a mixed bag. There are even parts where it turns into some bizarre slasher movie with unseen killers and flashes of spooky lightning.
The story seems choppy and weirdly edited, particularly later on. The film seems so dedicated to historical accuracy that the flow of the story seems hamstrung.
I can't put my finger on anything movie-ruining about how things go, it just feels wrong and unnatural somehow, I dunno.

CoolCly: Overall, this movie is a gigantic mess. Theres more characters than Avengers Endgame but no time to figure out who they are.

Random thoughts:
The initial exposition dump on Earp, Doc Holiday, and the Cowboys is just straight up terrible.

The initial shootout of the cowboys attacking the wedding was lame. As a show of brutality it was fine, but I hate it when a group of gunsliners lines up against another and they all open fire at eachother for awhile and one is all dead and the other side is fine to show how good they are. Doesn't make any sense.

Earp throwing out that jerk dealer was a great scene.

Doc saying he hates the dude who flips his pistol is a tense moment.

Wyatt Earp asking if his opium wife is doing okay and she giggles strangely with literal tears staining the corners of her eyes and he just is like "oh okay great, so anyways lets just travel forever how about it" is so strange. Like, he's not just oblivious to her troubles, its like they aren't in the same scene together...

Earp staying out of the issues with the cowboys and letting the red shirt guy shoot up the town, telling the Marshall to let it go, and letting him walk out there alone and die, and THEN suddenly deciding to put on his marshall hat and protect the cowboy from the mob makes no sense.

The Earps end up picking this fight more than the cowboys, despite them being portrayed as literal clowns that shoot people all the time.

The Sheriff getting cucked by Wyatt was meh.

Wyatt seems like a fucking maniac at the train station. It seems almost strange that the three defectors would follow him when he's so crazy. Then they just run around murdering people even though thats why those guys three left the cowboys?

The shootout where he just walks out into the fire into the water while being shot at from all sides was dumb as hell.

I love how Ringo is so confident he'll kill Earp, but when he's genuinely afraid of Doc when he appears.

Overall - great performance by Kurt Russell and an even better performance from Val Kilmer. But this movie was a gigantic mess. There's just too many characters, and most of them don't go anywhere. Despite the two leads having such strong performances, I think this is a worse movie than the other Tombstone story on the list.

6.5/10

Poke: Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday steals the show because hes so awesome. And the friendship is tight with Wyatt Earp. Delightful.

Johnbobb: acab
---

OUTLIER

Poke 129
CoolCly 127
Johnbobb 104
Inviso 100
Karo 87
KBM 87
Stifled 79

Wyatt Poke and Cool Clyiday remain bestest buddies at the top of the list. Everyone else at the town of Tombstone wonder if those frozen pizzas were inspired by them.
---

Johnbobb posted...

hershey park is a blast but I haven't been there in years

They've added quite a bit in the entrance area in the past few years. There's a big plaza area outside the entrance, and then a new roller coaster right when you go inside in addition to a bunch of new prize machines. Then some of the gift shops were moved around. Seems bigger overall. In any case, the place is definitely still a blast.
---

ATTENTION: while every entry so far has had movie spoilers, this is perhaps the most spoilery of them all. If you have not seen this movie and wish to, please watch it before you read these reviews. Going in blind is the absolute best way to watch. You have been warned!

#12. The Great Silence 98 points

The Great Stifled Silence 5
Pokewars 8
Johnbobb 10
Karo 10
KBM 14
CoolCly 24
Inviso 27

Very poor plot synopsis:
Yousa thinking yousa people ganna die?

Why it was included:
If youre a Quentin Tarantino fan like I am, then it should be very fascinating to learn just how much Sergio Corbucci influenced him. The more films of Corbuccis I watch, the more obvious it becomes. This was the initial reason I chose to look more into Corbuccis work. As to why I chose this particular film for the list, besides the way my user name blends right in with it, the reason is the ending. Considered very controversial at the time, the bleak ending turned many heads upon its release. Quite the fact, reviews were very mixed and the film quickly attained cult status among its fanbase. Corbucci must have considered backlash because he filmed several alternate endings, including one where none of the protagonists die. Ultimately he stuck to his guns, so to speak, and released his original vision to the world. As many films on this list with rough starts, time was very kind to Corbucci. Many consider The Great Silence to be Corbuccis masterpiece and one of the best Spaghetti Westerns ever made.

What Stifled thinks:
Im inclined to agree with all of the praise. I would be willing to call this the best Spaghetti Western ever made, based on what I have watched so far. Hell, I would be willing to put this on a list of my favorite movies. The acting, musical score, action sequences, snowy scenery, building of tension, dread, and despair are all excellent. I went into this movie blind, figuring the heroes would prevail like most other films. This assumption is particularly true in westerns. But holy shit I was wrong. I was completely wrong. The feeling I had watching every protagonist and innocent character get executed one right after the other is indescribable. I was both horrified and impressed. I felt despair and intrigue. This movie had the balls to do something very rarely seen in cinema and I cant praise it enough.
---

Poke: This film was phenomenal in that it subverted basically everything you preconceive about a westernhell, a movie in general. You think the protagonist is Silence, but its actually Loco, but they play it off like its reversed for the majority of the film. Brilliant.

Johnbobb: This has to be one of the bleakest film endings I've ever seen. This makes Fargo and No Country for Old Men seem cheery by comparison. I didn't love the film, but I'm definitely gonna be haunted by it for a while. Note: After watching every other film on this list, that ending is still burned into my mind.

Karo: This mute cowboy hates bounty hunters, so he tracks them down and kills them but not like a bounty hunter does its different okay shut up.
Silence's signature style is to provoke his opponent into drawing first so he can murder them in self defense with his overpowered automatic pistol. This guy is like a walking personification of gun laws in america.
After tangling with a corrupt official and his pet bounty hunters, Silence just walks headon into a trap because he is a fucking idiot and everyone dies.
Now it is okay for the protagonist not to win, but it is not okay for him to lose because of abject stupidity when it is shown throughout the movie that he is not THAT kind of dumb.
It is a film that is ahead of it time in terms of social awareness but unfortunately not a whole lot else.

KBM: Even for someone with my generally dark tastes in media, there is such a thing as TOO nihilistic, and this film really straddled that line. It may have even crossed it. That said, the unwavering bleakness certainly does make an impression, and that impression remains, largely, a very positive one. Masterfully filmed, visually gorgeous, with yet another brilliant score from Ennio Morricone, and a terrific performance from Klaus Kinski, this one is not to be missed by any fan of Spaghetti Westerns... just know that you're in for one hell of a dark ride, even by Italian standards.

CoolCly: Apparently this is by the same director who made Django, and it shows.

The dialogue is just as bad. And its not just bad dialogue. Its bad by itself its bad in the purpose its used for. Silence doesnt shoot anybody unless its in self defense!. Yeah, you actually just showed us that visually. But great job dumping this exposition on us with this terrible dialogue.

Its not just the dialogue thats badso much of the film making is just so subpar. This kid coming home to his mom saying oh is the lawyer here? At last, Im gonna get a fair trial. And theres really awkward moving close ups on the bounty hunters and their dumb grins. I have a feeling the mother having her son murdered like this in front of her is supposed to be shocking but... its just so poorly put together its almost comical. The whole scene just sucks.

I suspect the director is trying to ape the style of the Dollars movies in their tense shootouts and close ups but it doesnt seem to understand why those scenes work so well. Ive heard that the directors were friends, but theres a gigantic difference in craft here.

I bet if I go to the wiki for this movie, itll say that its considered by many to be one of the best westerns there is, and the director is amazing. Thats crazy. Its such a step below so many of these westerns that were 15-30 years older.

One credit Ill give this movie is to set this in these snowy mountains, which provides a pretty cool coat of paint on the western compared to the Mexican stone houses and wooden western towns in the desert every other movie is set in. One good visual decision in a sea of terrible ones.

Silence himself is a very weak protagonist. Having him be mute could be interesting, but its not used in an engaging way, and they dont make up for that to develop him some other way. His death at the end feels like remember how Django scraped through at the end? Well, it could go the other way too!! and just have him lose. They even use the same broken hands effects. But since I dont care about Silence at all, this was meaningless.

In a lot of ways, Loco is more the main character of this movie, and hes a lot more interesting. We often seen bounty hunters as anti heroes, who may dirty their hands, but are typically chasing down murderers and scumbags. But it does seem realistic that sadistic people who would use this to get away with killing would be drawn to the profession, and kill people who otherwise dont need killing. This seems to be a central theme of the movie, and Loco fulfills that role perfectly. He toes the line of violence and living within the boundaries of the law with express purpose, and has no intention of ever crossing this line.

His acting sells this character in a creepy way, and I really enjoyed it.

Where Loco falls off a cliff, however, is after he takes out the sheriff, and then suddenly pulls a band of outlaws out of his ass and assumes his role as bandit chief. I guess all that nuance of living inside the law just gets thrown out the window when you get a certain length of time in the movie. At this point, its just mindless massacre that this director cannot help himself from doing.

I think theres pieces of an interesting movie in here- but incompetence in directing took this movie far away from the heights of the Dollar trilogy.

4/10

Inviso: I can appreciate a good feel bad story, if the story is told well. This movie is not told well. As such, the crushing depression incited by the last half hour does not feel deserved or well-earned in any way. The characters in this movie feel flat and uninteresting, so much so that it couldnt keep my attention. The villains are one-note, generic caricatures. The sheriff is a one-note hero. The only interesting character is mute, and hes played by a guy who does a piss-poor job of acting out a character who is mute. And I dont know if the snow setting just hurt the film for me, but it wasnt exciting or fun or anything. And going back to the ending, one of the reasons the hero triumphs against all odds storyline works, is because it unleashes a level of catharsis for everything weve seen in the film. Theres nothing of that in this movie. Its just bleak and bland all the way through.
---

OUTLIER

CoolCly 139
Poke 133
Inviso 115
Johnbobb 106
Karo 89
KBM 89
Stifled 86

Cool Clylence is brutally murdered by bounty hunter Poko, but is immortalized with the top outlier spot.
---

Now Tombstone is on Disney+, so I can watch it whenever! The cast has always caught my eye, especially as a huge fan of Michael Biehn and Bill Paxton who's discovering the filmographies of Val Kilmer and Kurt Russell.

---

#11. Once Upon a Time in Mexico 98 points (won tiebreaker over The Great Silence)

Stifled 4
Inviso 9
CoolCly 13
KBM 13
Johnbobb 14
Karo 16
Pokewars 29

Very poor plot synopsis:
Bring in the white guy!

Why it was included:
Despite my reluctance to include The Lone Ranger on the list, I was intrigued to find out Johnny Depp had done a few other westerns. One I will be including on a future list, 1995s Dead Man. But for now, Once Upon a Time in Mexico is the other. This is the high budget finale to a low budget start for the Mariachi Trilogy. Your mileage may vary, but Antonio Banderas and Johnny Depp deliver memorable performances in this action packed Hispanic western.

What Stifled thinks:
On one hand, Im not entirely sure I liked taking an Antonio Banderas starring role and diminishing it to where he and Johnny Depp are dual main characters. On the other hand, Johnny Depps character is a batshit crazy lunatic who shoots a chef because his cooking was too good. Ridiculous stuff like that will crack me up every single time. Using a rare combination of revenge and political intrigue, this could almost be considered a Hispanic spy flick. El Mariachis life has gone down the crapper once again having lost his wife and daughter, and now the FBI wants to hire him to take out their killer because he is going to assassinate the president of Mexico. Convenient! No matter how ridiculous this might sound, ultimately it doesnt make a difference. This movie takes elements of westerns, spy movies, and revenge flicks and smashes them together with a sledgehammer. Its not just my cup of tea, its the whole damn pot. I have such a blast every time I watch this trilogy, and the third installment is by far my favorite of the three.
---

Inviso: This was just a chaotic mess of betrayals and wacky, over-the-top characters. And thats right up my alley when it comes to enjoying a film. Seriously, I could just leave the write-up at that, but it would feel like doing the film a disservice. Lets recap: the main villain is Willem DeFoe in brownface, as a psychotic drug lord who insists on having his piano teachers fingers chopped off after an errant joke from Mickey Rourke. I should point out that Mickey Rourke is an American ex-pat who wanders around with a chihuahua at all times. Johnny Depp is a crazy FBI agent with an itchy trigger finger and a penchant for scheming and plotting, who winds up blinded and forced to rely on his sense of hearing to win multiple gunfights. Antonio Banderas is great as always, with a new team of mariachis helping him prevent a coup against the Mexican president. And all of this takes place as multiple sides are attempting to gain power over one another, inserting moles into each others plans. Its great fun across the board.

CoolCly: I strongly dislike it when a movie sets up characters and relationships between them, but then in the sequel one of them is killed off between movies or in the opening act, to create stakes, give the main character a loss to mourn, and/or to drive the main character to revenge.
It's extremely lazy and destroys my ability to respect the films stakes and relationships going forward. People often claim that when characters dont seem to die it hurts stakes, but IMO this is much worse and disrespectful to the audience. Its especially dumb because his motivation in Desperado was revenge over the girl in El Mariachi so they are just doing that again.
The Mariachi bros existing at all is just absurd but whatever, they are even cooler than the bros in Desperado. This continues the trend of these movies just redoing the earlier movies but better

I liked Sands a lot. It seems like he was going to kill that eyepatch guy at the beginning just to keep his money but then didn't after getting called out for it and gives that childish I would. But then kills a chef later for basically no reason (though he believes he has one). He's an interesting guy, very manipulative. And seems very dangerous. His look after the, uh, procedure was pretty striking, and seeing him try to daredevil his way to victory was great. Then when he lost his eyes and achieved true Johnny Depp Style is when I realized that's who he was Overall, he drove the plot in this movie to be a lot more complex and interesting than the plot of El Mariachi / Desperado.
I think Desperado embraced its cheese and had better fight scenes to give it the edge over this movie though. This had lot more turns in the plot and a much more expanded cast, but I just did not connect with the Mariachi himself thanks to it being so based around the wife being killed.
This is a Mexican crime drama though, not a western. Don't agree with it being in this list.

7/10

KBM: Probably a slightly better overall movie than its predecessor El Mariachi (potential list spoilers there, depending on how these fall!), I still have to give the slight edge to the former film if only for sheer low-budget gumption. This may be one of Johnny Depp's best performances of his career, and that IS saying something. It's also refreshing in that unlike Desperado, it goes new places with the story and characters involved than just being a rehash of El Mariachi. And since it's less repetitive than that second installment, and there's much more going on plot-wise, it ends up the much more engaging watch.

Johnbobb: Robert Rodriguez is almost at the point I want him to be here. This film is all sorts of goofy and over-the-top in a way that doesn't ever really take itself seriously, but is almost always entertaining to some extent. It stopped caring all that much about its main character, but for what it's worth, I'm okay with that, as it was more fun to watch a blind Johnny Depp make his way through a battlefield while a kid calls out where his enemies are (were we supposed to be on his side though? Because it acted like he was the hero at the end when he definitely wasn't).

Karo: More mariachi madness, albeit less silly than the other movies. Comparatively. Someone is killed with a remote controlled guitar case bomb so take that as you will.
So apparently his family that he now has was murdered by this general who they were fighting for some reason, or at least that is the best that can be gleaned from how scenes are bizarrely edited together in a way that is both confusing and disruptive to the movie's flow. Dude you arent Quentin Tarantino so stop trying to be his bargain bin mexican knockoff.
The one saving grace to the film is Johnny Depp's eccentric CIA agent, whose personality was thankfully largely created by Depp himself, because Rodriguez has shown again and again he can't create compelling characters to save his life.
Otherwise, it is just an overblown mess with too many plots, too many weird slow motion filters, and way too little time spent on writing the script.

Poke: Not a fan of the over-the-top action flicks and D-grade storylines. I just dont care about the characters.
---

OUTLIER

Poke 151
CoolCly 141
Inviso 117
Johnbobb 109
Karo 94
Stifled 93
KBM 91

Going into the final battle blind was bad for Cly. He thought there was a kid to spot him, but it was actually just Poke telling the bad guys where to shoot.
---

And here's your top ten! Not a bad split as far as eras are concerned. Five from before the 80s and five after the 90s.

Speculate? Predict? Lament? The choice is yours!

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
A Fistful of Dollars (1964)
For a Few Dollars More (1965)
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
Blazing Saddles (1974)
3:10 to Yuma (2007)
True Grit (2010)
Django Unchained (2012)
The Hateful Eight (2015)
Prospect (2018)
---

Only one movie left really doesn't deserve to have made it this far.

---