Poll of the Day > Environmental peeps, is eating lamb a good alternative to cows for the envo?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've been eating alot more chicken and cutting WAAAY back on beef (though I do burgers still sometimes), but I'm curious. What if I eat lamb instead of beef/steaks? Would that help the environment because the lamb industry isn't as big, do lamb create less gasses etc?

I don't care about my health, I pretty much only have food left in my life as a joy, so screw health (Although I avoid carbs due to being diabetic..and sugars of course). My cholesteral is fine etc, so I can eat beef every day and not have a health issue. I care about taste though, alot. I NEED something good to look forward to each day and often that is just a meal.

Cutting back on beef therefore, is quite hard as I have many things I can't eat (Types of cheeses, now most carbs or things that break down into sugars, all things like mayo, cream cheese, sour cream etc).

My two favorite foods were always pizza and steak and I've been basically cutting both of em out of my diet.

Lamb though is yummy...so if I eat lotsa lamb will that be as bad for the world as eating lots of moo moos?

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Pork is better.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Pork is better.

Legitimately true - piggies have higher calories per grazing meter than most other animals... not sure the exact numbers

actually, here you go

https://awellfedworld.org/feed-ratios/

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Other than bacon, i'm not a big fan of pork. I do ham sometimes, or BBQ pork from chinese, but it's rare. I do aim for pork egg rolls over chicken though.

Wish I liked pork roasts better, and especially bbq pork ribs (love beef ribs though).


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Lokarin posted...

Legitimately true - piggies have higher calories per grazing meter than most other animals... not sure the exact numbers

actually, here you go

https://awellfedworld.org/feed-ratios/

Looks like chickens are the best of those 3, tho it doesn't list lambs at all.

Something about beef just...well works for me, not sure why, but it works better than chicken. I'm getting used to eating chicken but it's a process for sure.

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The most environmentally sound option is to eat veggies/fruit and such due to how inefficient each trophic level is... but meat IS delicious.

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Maybe there's a way to make bio-meat in your own home? Perhaps with some sort of worm culture

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Lokarin posted...

The most environmentally sound option is to eat veggies/fruit and such due to how inefficient each trophic level is...

Came in to say this. There's a DRAMATIC difference between eating crops and eating meat. The difference between different animals is almost negligible compared to the difference between eating meat and not eating meat.

If you care about the environment enough to actually make dietary sacrifices for it, the fact that you're barely making a difference as-is (the eating habits of a single person wouldn't shift the needle to any detectable degree, so long as everyone else is still eating meat) would suggest you should probably go all-in and making the more significant change.

But if you're unwilling to give up meat entirely, because you still want to eat it, it's not really worth changing what TYPE of meat you eat all that much at all.



Lokarin posted...

Maybe there's a way to make bio-meat in your own home? Perhaps with some sort of worm culture

Go the Asian route. Learn to like roast crickets. Maybe dip them in chocolate.
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Whether or not you eat something, does not mean less of that something gets produced. It just means that someone buys it instead (or it gets thrown away).

Very common false dichotomy.

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Judgmenl posted...

Whether or not you eat something, does not mean less of that something gets produced. It just means that someone buys it instead (or it gets thrown away).

Very common false dichotomy.

I'm not sure what dichotomy you're talking about.

A big enough decrease in demand will cause a decrease in production. Dunno why that's a controversial opinion

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Clench281 posted...

A big enough decrease in demand will cause a decrease in production. Dunno why that's a controversial opinion

As an individual you're not causing any significant amount of change in the global scale needed to reduce methane production.

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Same thing, both are ruminants that produce vast amounts of methane to maintain greenhouse gasses and put off the next Ice Age, so, yes, vital for the environment.

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Judgmenl posted...

As an individual you're not causing any significant amount of change in the global scale needed to reduce methane production.

And yet, global emissions are made up of tiny contributions like each individual's footprint. And corporations produce things based on demand. Almost like if the public stance shifts towards more sustainable practices, it'll add up to large effects. And the best way that an individual can help shift that stance is to take up such practices to normalize them. Of course, the best way a government can modify behavior is with taxes and subsidies, but individuals have little control over that.

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ya, if 'big meat' is putting out 1 billion tons of methane (idk) to 1 billion customers.... those customers are still responsible for a ton each

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> 'big meat' is putting out

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Clench281 posted...

And yet, global emissions are made up of tiny contributions like each individual's footprint. And corporations produce things based on demand. Almost like if the public stance shifts towards more sustainable practices, it'll add up to large effects. And the best way that an individual can help shift that stance is to take up such practices to normalize them. Of course, the best way a government can modify behavior is with taxes and subsidies, but individuals have little control over that.

Eeyup. Individuals can't make a significant difference, but that doesn't mean nobody should ever try. That just means everyone saying "you're not making much of a difference on your own" should get over themselves and start contributing as well. Addressing the environment effectively isn't a matter of individuals making massive lifestyle changes, it's a matter of the masses making small ones.

That said, there are some individuals that have the power to commit to not dumping 30 million barrels of oil into the ocean, for example. Those individuals need to step up their game.

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Not sure how good it is for the environment, but I've largely replaced ground beef w/ ground turkey. Doesn't taste the same, but it's still really good and the texture is pretty similar. Less than half the fat was the main selling point.

Turkey burgers
Ground turkey tacos
Turkey hot dogs

Only thing it can't replace is steak itself. I still enjoy that as a rare treat a few times a year.

Ok, the wikipedia had a few more numbers in terms of energy efficiency.

Sheep is better than Cows, but worse than pigs at an FCR of about 6.0

Most Fish are on par with chickens at about 2 FCR for eggs only and 4.2 FCR for carcasses... with backyard chicken farms being more in line with pets at 9.2 for eggs, 14.6 for carcass. However some trash-eater fish like Catfish and tilapia can get down to 1~1.5 FCR. Herbivorous fish use less resources, but are less efficient getting around 4.5~4.9 for carp

Cattle is about a 10, and pigs are considered good at 4.0 (with 3.8 being "excellent")

Rabbit is around 2.5 since they can just graze for free.... they truly are the freest of free-roamers

Insects range from 0.9~2.4

Tofu is as low as 0.29

Cultured meat is about on par with pork at about 4.0 (ranges from 2~8)


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But if you're unwilling to give up meat entirely, because you still want to eat it, it's not really worth changing what TYPE of meat you eat all that much at all.

Strongly disagree.
Asking someone to make a drastic change from eating meat to going vegan is more likely to cause them to balk at changing at all, you're asking for too much.
Going from eating beef a lot to eating poultry and other meat that's less damaging to the environment, and eat a bit less of it and more veggies is a much more practical suggestion and more likely to actually be followed.

He may be just one person, but there's plenty of people willing to make small changes to their diet to help the environment, just not drastic ones. Getting beef consumption down significantly for a lot of people would help massively. If all of those people just shrugged and said, "I'm just one person, so it doesn't make a difference anyway", then nothing would ever change.

Lokarin posted... Ok, the wikipedia had a few more numbers in terms of energy efficiency.

Sheep is better than Cows, but worse than pigs at an FCR of about 6.0

Most Fish are on par with chickens at about 2 FCR for eggs only and 4.2 FCR for carcasses... with backyard chicken farms being more in line with pets at 9.2 for eggs, 14.6 for carcass.

Is turkey basically identical numbers to chicken, or is there a difference? Just curious...

streamofthesky posted...

Strongly disagree.
Asking someone to make a drastic change from eating meat to going vegan is more likely to cause them to balk at changing at all, you're asking for too much.
Going from eating beef a lot to eating poultry and other meat that's less damaging to the environment, and eat a bit less of it and more veggies is a much more practical suggestion and more likely to actually be followed.

He may be just one person, but there's plenty of people willing to make small changes to their diet to help the environment, just not drastic ones. Getting beef consumption down significantly for a lot of people would help massively. If all of those people just shrugged and said, "I'm just one person, so it doesn't make a difference anyway", then nothing would ever change.

Why is meat and vegan the only options? You can be non-vegan vegetarian and enjoy a bunch of milk, eggs, cheese, and such

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Lokarin posted...

Why is meat and vegan the only options? You can be non-vegan vegetarian and enjoy a bunch of milk, eggs, cheese, and such

Wasn't sure exactly what he meant by "go all-in", but it sounded like vegan.
Giving up meat entirely (vegetarian) is still a big change that most people would be unwilling to do.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Pork is better.

Pork is too cute, give me cows. Chickens are dumb enough to eat too. (Well, some people are dumber than chickens, but they taste horrible.)

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Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

Chickens are dumb enough to eat too.

Sidenote: What the average person thinks a chicken looks like is actually rather sickly compared to a home pet chicken... so if you happened to think farm chickens were already cute then you'd find pet chickens majestic

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instead of cutting out beef and switching to something else, just lower your intake of meat. i try to eat vegetarian at least 4 days a week now but i still love a good burger/steak every once in a while.

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Lokarin posted...

Sidenote: What the average person thinks a chicken looks like is actually rather sickly compared to a home pet chicken... so if you happened to think farm chickens were already cute then you'd find pet chickens majestic

Yes, they are. We have 11. Theyre kinda sweet. One of the yellow-orange ones loves people and follows me around.

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Fierce_Deity_08 posted...

Yes, they are. We have 11. Theyre kinda sweet. One of the yellow-orange ones loves people and follows me around.

heh, yay

I love farm stuff

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Supermarkets make the most money on pork.

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I have been cutting back on how much meat I eat some, but it's really hard for a few reasons.

First because I can't really eat the grains/carbs like I used to. I could have lived on pizza in the old days and been happy, but now I can only have it very rarely, same with pasta, bread etc.

Second, other than pizza and pasta my primary intake for food throughout my entire life was meat, mostly beef, to the point of literally only occasionally having brocolli as a veggie (From broccoli beef) before I got married (at 27).

I didn't have parents that had me eat veggies as a kid and I started working buying my own food at 11....what I bought was meat, what I ate was meat with a side of occasional (often) pizza lol.

Giving that up all together seems pretty impossible. I have actually tried multiple times in the past, after seeing Harris Ranch in CA and all those poor cows, I felt horrible and really tried to stop eating beef. I didn't last a month. I literally felt sick, low energy, depressed and it didn't go away after a few weeks. I eventually did what someone above kinda said, and just convinced myself that just one person doesn't really matter and the meat is going to be sold or thrown away anyway, and just went back to eating like normal.

Back then, when I tried, I had a few advantages. I had a family that I cooked for, and so would expend a ton more energy to make very yummy and healthy meals, I had goals and things in my life I enjoyed, I wasn't diabetic and you could actually go out and eat lots of places. Even back then it was too much for me to go full vegetarian, or even just eat chicken.

Since then I have tried to cut back on how much beef I eat, and eat more chicken. I buy frozen chicken and cook it in my air fryer (which isn't too bad, but still have not really found a good spicy (like popeyes spicey chicken) one that I really enjoy. I don't buy steak every week anymore, and have made one pot roast in the last six months. I do buy hamburger meat sometimes still, but I would say I average less than 1 hamburger meal per month at this point.

Maybe it is not making a difference, but I'm trying at least. I have always tried to make the world a better place and to not harm the people around me. I believe eating beef (especially as much as I did most of my life) is harming the world, so I'm trying to at least reduce how much I do that. Maybe it won't matter at all, but if more people do what I am, I am pretty sure it will matter eventually.

I just wish there was an easier option, a good "impossible" meat I could buy, at the store, that would taste SOMETHING like a real burger...you know....yummy.

I don't like tofu, never have, don't like most veggies though over the decades I have grown to like asparagus, broccoli, brussel sprouts and mushrooms (corn I always liked). That is literally the only veggies I don't strongly dislike. I hate squash of all kinds (used to cook it all the time for my wife/family couldn't/didn't eat it myself at all). Oh I of course love potatoes lol.

But yeah, if you cut out all or most carbs and all meat, I would um......have almost nothing left. My solution is chicken, but....it gets freaking old fast eating chicken day in and day out. I spend money to have different ways to make it, instant pot, air fryer, BBQ grill, electric griddle etc, but yeah, it's still just chicken, and the sad truth is I just don't spend as much time/effort making good food for myself as when I cooked for 4 people.

I really need some good, healthy, non-meat choices that I really like, and impossible meat that tastes like beef would be perfect.

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wolfy42 posted...

I just wish there was an easier option, a good "impossible" meat I could buy, at the store, that would taste SOMETHING like a real burger...you know....yummy.

I really need some good, healthy, non-meat choices that I really like, and impossible meat that tastes like beef would be perfect.

Have you tried ground turkey? I find it works really well... Buy some turkey burgers, maybe get some ground turkey and make tacos w/ it, see how it goes. It's still meat (well, poultry), but healthier and better for the environment.

I don't like tofu, never have, don't like most veggies though over the decades I have grown to like asparagus, broccoli, brussel sprouts and mushrooms (corn I always liked). That is literally the only veggies I don't strongly dislike. I hate squash of all kinds (used to cook it all the time for my wife/family couldn't/didn't eat it myself at all). Oh I of course love potatoes lol.

I mean, try other veggies, and maybe try some you dislike but prepared differently?
We steam cauliflower and broccoli a lot as a side w/ some salt and pepper sprinkled on it at the end. Steamed they are a fair bit different than they are raw.
Squash and zucchini...how have you had it before? I like it roasted in the oven. Something like 375 degrees for 30-45 min, with some olive oil and salt/pepper. Try that, maybe? You can do similar w/ bell peppers in the oven, too (either cut up, or buy the mini peppers).

And just include the veggies you do like in dishes as much as possible. I put mushrooms in a ton of curries and stir fries, for example.

Just some suggestions.

EDIT: I also don't like tofu, but I can tolerate it or even not notice it if it's in small/tiny pieces and in a dish w/ a nice savory sauce for it to soak in the flavor of. Sometimes if I get a dish w/ tofu and the chunks are too big, I'll break them up w/ my fork, works just as well.

What about fish? A lot of different types of fish you can eat and a lot of different ways to cook em and I consider them almost on par with beef even though obviously the taste is very different.

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streamofthesky posted...

Just some suggestions.

Sadly turkey is another thing I don't like (even on t-day), I used to make chicken on T-day instead. I have been including mushrooms in many meals, even over potatoes now as a side dish. Also tofu is ok, in a soup or something where there are other flavors that over ride it, just not as a main dish (like a tofu burger or something).

YoukaiSlayer posted...

What about fish? A lot of different types of fish you can eat and a lot of different ways to cook em and I consider them almost on par with beef even though obviously the taste is very different.

I do try fish, and it works for awhile then weirdly, I got through a period where I just don't want fish at all (like now), mainly because of not great frozen fish I guess. If there was a GOOD fish place nearby that I could get fresh fried fish etc, that would be so much better than the gordans crap I have in the freezer (That I'm avoiding right now).

For awhile I ate almost as much fish as chicken, but now I have not had fish at all in 2 weeks.

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I have a friend that was helping his aunt with lambs. They would raise them, and then sell them to someone. They would actually get paid a bunch. And got some of the meat, as well...
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wolfy42 posted...

I do try fish, and it works for awhile then weirdly, I got through a period where I just don't want fish at all (like now), mainly because of not great frozen fish I guess.

Thats unfortunate. I don't live near the coast but my local grocery store deli has pretty decent salmon as long as you cook it the same day you buy it. I mean, I'm sure it's bad compared to like actually fresh caught fish you could find in a coastal town but it certainly beats the stuff you find in the freezer section.

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LinkPizza posted...

I have a friend that was helping his aunt with lambs. They would raise them, and then sell them to someone. They would actually get paid a bunch. And got some of the meat, as well...

I'm such a wuss, if I raised lambs or even cows, I would never be able to eat them.

Chickens I would probably enjoy eating more tho, I don't like birds.

But cute little lambs? No way.

Also don't mind eat fish, they are dumb.

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You can buy pretty high quality frozen fish fillets at most places.

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YoukaiSlayer posted...

Thats unfortunate. I don't live near the coast but my local grocery store deli has pretty decent salmon as long as you cook it the same day you buy it. I mean, I'm sure it's bad compared to like actually fresh caught fish you could find in a coastal town but it certainly beats the stuff you find in the freezer section.

I think it just depends on how you cook it... That said, I was born and raised on the East coast, so...

wolfy42 posted...

I'm such a wuss, if I raised lambs or even cows, I would never be able to eat them.

Chickens I would probably enjoy eating more tho, I don't like birds.

But cute little lambs? No way.

Also don't mind eat fish, they are dumb.

I think it was easy for him since hed be raised on a farm. I personally wouldnt want to raise them. But as long as I wasnt attached, I could eat them...
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But if you're unwilling to give up meat entirely, because you still want to eat it, it's not really worth changing what TYPE of meat you eat all that much at all.

Largely untrue. Even if you're only factoring domestic animals, the difference seems pretty significant. More importantly, you have wild animals.


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Clench281 posted...

I'm not sure what dichotomy you're talking about.

A big enough decrease in demand will cause a decrease in production. Dunno why that's a controversial opinion

There will never be a big decrease like that.
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Revelation34 posted...

There will never be a big decrease like that.

If consumers paid the real cost for animal products, without government subsidies, consumption would certainly drop a LOT.

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Clench281 posted...

If consumers paid the real cost for animal products, without government subsidies, consumption would certainly drop a LOT.

But do you think that would happen?
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wolfy42 posted...

I'm such a wuss, if I raised lambs or even cows, I would never be able to eat them.

Chickens I would probably enjoy eating more tho, I don't like birds.

But cute little lambs? No way.

Also don't mind eat fish, they are dumb.

Animals are friends, not food....... unless you buy meat at the store and never get to know the animal personally.

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