Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 500: The Posting Business

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 1:53:16 PM
#252:


https://www.instagram.com/p/CDoxPm7pkCD/

Is it just me, or is it weird to promote the success of your AEW women engagement program by posting a sexy picture of yourself?

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 1:55:22 PM
#253:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
There's an argument to be made that, because they had targeted that young crowd so hard with Cena, that it ended up hurting them in the long run and scared off all of the teenagers and adults. Like, they worked so hard to get this young audience of kids and the demos reflect they have retained very few of them. Whether that be because they were only fans of Cena, that they failed to have Cena's character 'grow' with that audience, or because they decided WWE is fucking atrocious on their own and dropped it.
Keep in mind Cena is old enough now that those kid fans are now teenagers and young adults.

The issue was that there was no great passing of the torch from Cena to another wrestler. Same problem with the post-Rock/Austin era except Vince McMahon is now 17 years older.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 2:00:22 PM
#254:


I... was keeping that in mind. The teenager and young adult demo is the worst it's ever been. That's what I meant by them not retaining any of those fans.

They pushed a lot of the more childlike humor and kid stuff in the PG era on us throughout Cena's run and ratings kept going down as a result. There's an argument that "Well they were bringing in a new batch of kids to become lifelong fans!" but that doesn't seem like it panned out.

I had always made the argument that they've always sacrificed a lot of the teenager and adult fans they had in the PG era and that's why the ratings continued to go down steeper and steeper. But considering they haven't retained any of their own target demo as fans when they got older, it seems like that strategy failed.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 2:03:39 PM
#255:


From what I understand, ratings were more stagnant than declining under Cena's run. I haven't looked at a chart in a while but in comparison to the rapid decline in the past 3-5 years, Cena's run was rather steady.

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Eddv
08/10/20 2:06:08 PM
#256:


Well another key ingredient there is that there's no cena anymore.

Also Cenas booking was simply atrocious. It was an atrocity. A guy of his talent used properly is able to transcend mega stardom. They never went there. Never turned him heel. Never allowed him any nuance or humanity. Never ever.

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Eddv
08/10/20 2:07:10 PM
#257:


He staunched the bleeding that had been killing wwe from 2002 to 2005

Things were still going down but much slower.

Cenas gone, but the wound remains so it's back to being a gusher.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 2:09:46 PM
#258:


Eddv posted...
A guy of his talent used properly is able to transcend mega stardom.
Cena is absolutely not that talented.

He was good, better than I admitted at the time, but 90% of why he was over was because of his booking, not in spite of it.

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HashtagSEP
08/10/20 2:13:06 PM
#259:


For once I'm gonna agree with Eddv, Cena absolutely was that talented as a performer. His booking was not great.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 2:21:56 PM
#260:


Cena was booked over quite literally every single person. He soundly defeated everyone in the company and was a hair away from being as strong as Hogan. Which is perfect for a portion of the audience. However, for another portion of the audience that did want to see nuance or see other characters get a spotlight, it sucked. It was horrible. A lot of his segments were questionable as well.

I would say Cena was booked incredibly strong, but his booking overall was not very good in that it alienated a large part of fans. I think we're so far removed from just how obnoxious his booking was. There's a reason he used to get a shocking amount of boos in most arenas he was in.

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Fastbreak
08/10/20 2:44:27 PM
#261:


Cena is retaining all of his demographic

At the box office just like intended

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 2:44:59 PM
#262:


Local Jobber really stuck the landing.

https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/1292877466378395648?s=19

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 2:46:30 PM
#263:


Fastbreak posted...
Cena is retaining all of his demographic

At the box office just like intended
I mean his solo work hasn't made much money and he was in the only Transformers flop (although that wasn't really his fault).

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Steiner
08/10/20 3:00:33 PM
#264:


TheRock1525 posted...
John Cena was booked exactly the way he needed to be to get over with the crowd they were targeting. Its really hard to buy the idea that he was given atrocious booking. Quite the opposite, in fact.

He was booked well but written horribly
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XIII_rocks
08/10/20 3:07:29 PM
#265:


Cena's matches weren't that great for a while there imo

He obviously massively improved as time went on though

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Steiner
08/10/20 3:18:33 PM
#266:


XIII_rocks posted...
Cena's matches weren't that great for a while there imo

He obviously massively improved as time went on though
he was pretty bad like, 05-06 but by 07 he was having the umaga match and the michaels matches and he kept delivering from that point on but a certain corner of fans liked to pretend he was still bad

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 3:27:56 PM
#267:


Erm....

So... the people we saw on Smackdown are rumored to not actually be the members of Retribution, and they're just placeholders. Because it's being reported that they aren't sure who they want to end up in the stable yet, and that Dijakovic is still a part of it.

This is top tier nonsense.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:31:26 PM
#268:


Honestly Dijak is a pretty good choice as a leader. Dude is built but also can work.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 3:41:46 PM
#269:


Well they're also saying Ciampa is involved, who is a more natural leader.

But the problem here is if Dijakovic is involved why not have him be one of the people who invaded then? Why use a bunch of random short dudes?

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:43:45 PM
#270:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Well they're also saying Ciampa is involved, who is a more natural leader.

But the problem here is if Dijakovic is involved why not have him be one of the people who invaded then? Why use a bunch of random short dudes?
It's the Aces and Eights strategy!

Use a bunch of nobodies until you decide you want to reveal Doc Gallows as a member.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:44:24 PM
#271:


Also if this allows Ciampa to go back to being a magnificent bastard heel then I'm all for it.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:46:36 PM
#272:


Wait isn't Devon a producer for WWE now?

Oh god it actually is Aces and Eights but with Antifa.

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Lopen
08/10/20 3:47:54 PM
#273:


TheRock1525 posted...
but 90% of why he was over was because of his booking, not in spite of it.

If it was that easy Roman Reigns would be carrying the company right now.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:48:29 PM
#274:


Lopen posted...
If it was that easy Roman Reigns would be carrying the company right now.
With the way things are cratering without Roman maybe he was!

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 3:53:31 PM
#275:


TheRock1525 posted...
Wait isn't Devon a producer for WWE now?

Oh god it actually is Aces and Eights but with Antifa.
Aces & Eights was Bruce Prichard's idea so.

TheRock1525 posted...
With the way things are cratering without Roman maybe he was!
This is the result of exclusively pushing one dude as your top talent and making everyone look second rate. It's not Roman specifically but the fact they built they entire program around Roman and then him not being there without anyone else built up

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 3:54:06 PM
#276:


Like JaKyL can correct me here but I'm pretty sure the Roman/Goldberg faceoff was one of Smackdown's highest rated segments on their FOX run.

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Lopen
08/10/20 3:54:37 PM
#277:


I mean, he was to some extent I bet, because you're right that pure booking can do a lot to enhance someone, but the rate of decline in the Roman era was much higher than the Cena era. 90% is a very high number to attribute to the booking alone. If Cena was the next Hulk Hogan then Roman Reigns would be the next Diesel. Sure people crap on Diesel's run but if we abruptly didn't have Diesel and no Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels or whoever in the wings and we're sticking the title on a face turned Bam Bam Bigelow, talented as he may be, he'd be stinking it up as bad as Drew McIntyre is.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 4:09:41 PM
#278:


Also what helped Cena was that there was no clear alternative that fans really really wanted during his original ascension when there was a Daniel Bryan sitting in Roman's way.

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Jakyl25
08/10/20 4:31:26 PM
#279:


TheRock1525 posted...
Like JaKyL can correct me here but I'm pretty sure the Roman/Goldberg faceoff was one of Smackdown's highest rated segments on their FOX run.


All the Goldberg segments were highly rated relative to 2020 standards

All 8 of the highest rated segments of the FOX run are from the first episode <_<
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Jakyl25
08/10/20 4:35:26 PM
#280:


Also just to be clear, the pattern was ratings go up for Goldberg, not Roman
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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 5:14:53 PM
#281:


This is actually a quality shirt.

https://shop.fightful.com/collections/super-soft-premium-t-shirts/products/good-shirt-pal-premium-tee

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ZeroSignal620
08/10/20 5:24:01 PM
#282:


TheRock1525 posted...
Also what helped Cena was that there was no clear alternative that fans really really wanted during his original ascension when there was a Daniel Bryan sitting in Roman's way.

Makes sense. The other comparison? Sure, Cena had his fair share of "Cena sucks" chanted toward him, but he still maintained a good portion of cheers as well during his runs. He also reacted well to the boos.

Roman caused WWE to mute their mics at Wrestlemania and had fans chanting "You Deserve It" when Strowman was destroying him at Payback 2017.

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Jakyl25
08/10/20 5:42:59 PM
#283:


Cenas original ascent was organic. He wasnt supposed to be The Man; Batista was. Fans forced them to swap the two.

People only started tiring on him when he started beating their faves like Jericho and Angle

Romans ascent was contrived. Fans LOVED him in his role in the Shield, but any elevation past Seth and Dean was seen as unwanted.
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TheRock1525
08/10/20 5:48:48 PM
#284:


Jakyl25 posted...
Fans LOVED him in his role in the Shield,
And even for a while beyond that. I wasn't until his return from injury when the writing was on the wall that "hey Roman is gonna be the top guy" around late 2014 that the Backlash began.

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 5:52:51 PM
#285:


Oh hey Mickie James is on RAW tonight.

Hooray for the return of the Monday Night MILF!

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 5:52:51 PM
#286:


If you didn't know that Roman was going to be the top guy after his first Royal Rumble I don't know what to tell you.

It's still mind-blowing that they spent all of this time trying to build up Roman for him to end up like he has.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 7:10:16 PM
#287:


So bad news. They put Roche Chanel in the fucking tag tournament.

BUT NICOLE SAVOY JUST MADE HER DEBUT IN AEW!

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 7:53:42 PM
#288:


So my thoughts on day 2 of the AEW Women's Tag Tournament.

First match was Big Swole & Nicole Savoy vs. Leva Bates & Roche Chanel.

I want to be mad that Roche Chanel has a platform because wow she's bad, but they've given a platform to Dasha so. Anyway, Nicole Savoy was fun. Swole looked awesome in this match. Leva gonna Leva, but she did fine. Swole & Savoy win.

Next match was Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Dasha & Rachael Ellering.

Dasha is very, very green, but shows a lot of promise actually. Her strikes are hideous but she could do some technical stuff and her timing was all over the place. Ellering's first match back... and it showed. She wasn't too great either. This was mainly a showcase for Ivelisse and Diamante though, and they really got to show off. Ivelisse picked up the win.

Next week it'll be Allie & Brandi vs. Swole & Savoy and then Ivelisse & Diamante vs. Tay Conti & Anna Jay.

Still going with an Allie & Brandi vs. Ivelisse & Diamante finals like I had said from the jump.

But whoo boy, all the people spouting off about AEW not investing in their women's division and here's Nicole Savoy. Surprised nobody spoiled this in AEW given what was being discussed in the past week.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 8:42:53 PM
#289:


Wtf why is this being done to him in an empty fucking arena?

https://twitter.com/SoDuTw/status/1292983965918339072?s=20

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 10:03:59 PM
#290:


This is what I wanted today.

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1292995594743681025

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TheRock1525
08/10/20 10:10:19 PM
#291:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
This is what I wanted today.

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1292995594743681025
I was all like "whatever" with this video when he threw the cinderblock.

Then he threw a second one for no reason.

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 10:13:24 PM
#292:


I know! That's the best part!

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Fastbreak
08/10/20 10:33:53 PM
#293:


Man I dont know if the comments I want to make are kosher to do

But i will say its like someone said "lets do a very very simple minded nexus"

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 10:36:08 PM
#294:


Omg it's better with the full clip and sound. Holy shit. This is the lamest thing I have ever seen in wrestling.

https://twitter.com/GifSkullIV/status/1292996158843830273?s=20

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Mega Mana
08/10/20 10:56:50 PM
#295:


Jakyl25 posted...
Romans ascent was contrived. Fans LOVED him in his role in the Shield, but any elevation past Seth and Dean was seen as unwanted.


TheRock1525 posted...
And even for a while beyond that. I wasn't until his return from injury when the writing was on the wall that "hey Roman is gonna be the top guy" around late 2014 that the Backlash began.


My take, still:

It was all in the writing. The booking was solid. Why not have Roman go after the top title after the break up of the Shield? The Authority has power, and getting that title would put egg on the face of The Authority. The problem is they never acknowledged the break up of the Shield or motivation of Reigns beyond being groomed for the Main Event. All the momentum of the breakup went to Ambrose vs. Rollins, and Reigns played no part in it. He didn't really acknowledge either member for months, and there was no promo or conversation or explanation why he moved on so easily, especially contrasted with Ambrose eating up all that babyface revenge momentum practically for the rest of his run.

Another big one was the injury. It happened, it sucks, and we wanted to see Reigns come back.

But just not via satellite letting us know how he's doing every other week. Especially when I believe someone else around the same time had a bad injury too (don't remember who) and got nothing. The first time we got a satellite of Reigns' rehab, it just cemented, "Oh. He's the push. He's being groomed for Rumble and Wrestlemania. It's Batista again one year later." Doesn't help at all the shitty shit shit shitty shit Rumble with Kane and Big Show conveniently turning on each other near the ropes and The Rock for no reason with the hand raise.

Oh, and the sufferin succotash promos. My god. The Sheamus program could've been really good if all the writers were fired.

Roman is really good in the ring and turning the audience from loathing and disinterest into fascination and cheers, and he can be a good promo when he's driven and natural. But the WWE just really really likes to serve up shit sandwiches from everyone.

It's actually incredible how good Drew has been as a babyface champion, not just in the ring but also building up hype for matches.

Drew vs. Ziggler was actually a good build!!!!!

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Fastbreak
08/10/20 11:00:09 PM
#296:


Randy Orton tries to murder ric flair

Met with "shame" chant

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/10/20 11:07:42 PM
#297:


From what I hear this Raw wasn't nearly as Wrestlecrap. :( Glad I didn't watch.

But the guy they hyped as the best fighter won his match in underground with a penis claw. So there is that.

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scarletspeed7
08/11/20 12:32:07 AM
#298:


Fastbreak posted...
Randy Orton tries to murder ric flair

Met with "shame" chant
Why should we care what paid employees chant

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TheRock1525
08/11/20 3:48:20 AM
#299:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1gKWqO7pSQ

They keep lying to poor Dom.

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ZeroSignal620
08/11/20 9:00:37 AM
#300:


Let's see... so far for Summerslam...

McIntyre vs Orton for WWE title
Strowman vs Fiend for Universal title
Dominic vs Rollins
Sasha vs Asuka for Raw Women's title
Bayley vs Battle Royal winner for SD Women's title
Apollo vs MVP for US title
Street Profits vs Garza/Andrade for Raw Tag titles

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PrivateBiscuit1
08/11/20 1:18:53 PM
#301:


I believe WWE and Vince McMahon.

https://wrestlenomics.com/2020/08/11/i-believe-wwe-and-in-wwe/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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