Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 288: Ventilators! Mount Up

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Tucker back on his hyper-nationalist bigotry

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1245516754467594240?s=21

Real talk, the migrant farmers are the best Americans right now. They are making sure 200 million cowards who won't go outside aren't starving to death and are not complaining about having to work. Give them ALL automatic citizenship when this is over imo.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Wtf Google

https://twitter.com/stevensonpj/status/1245354438849593344?s=21

Yeah. I understand the rationale kind of - preventing misinformation about COVID-19 from bad faith actors... but when you end up with a situation where Trump can run ads praising the administration's response while freezing out any ads criticizing it that's a yikes. I feel like there has to be a way where they can screen anything from politicians/candidates/PACs to make sure it's not some grifter attempt to sell a miracle cure or lie about the stats. Though I guess I can see why they wouldn't want to be in the position of doing that because you can already hear the conservative victimization outrage machine stirring.

Tech companies across the board have been bad about this. Though Facebook is still far and away the worst of them.

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Republicans have been quite successful at playing the refs here (just like with the media) such that the actors overcorrect their own biases and end up giving them an advantage.

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well, we've come a long way when we're letting russia do PR humanitarian aid and landing military aircraft at jfk because our own government is too incompetent

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1245453784844619776

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Corrik7 posted...

Remember when yinz cheered cuz a Trump post where he posted a clip of Biden saying to vote for Trump with the follow up cut off, but you also cheered multiple posts about Trump that had the same in return instead of asking for their removal.

Sucks when things are applied equally eh? Google is a liberal as hell company. They aren't helping Trump.

huh?

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xp1337 posted...

well, we've come a long way when we're letting russia do PR humanitarian aid and landing military aircraft at jfk because our own government is too incompetent

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1245453784844619776

I mean they can use the pr considering their last humanitarian aid mission was with Italy, which was entirely a PR stunt because their testing kits are utterly worthless.

I seriously hope we don't trust their materials.

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red sox 777 posted...

Nothing wrong with trying to convert people. That's very good, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg-wtsocxHY


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Jakyl25 posted...

Tucker back on his hyper-nationalist bigotry

back?

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How many consecutive Biden interviews where he straight-up loses his train of thought do we need before it qualifies as elder abuse?

This guy is literally not up for this.

https://twitter.com/bernforbernie20/status/1245365353959624704?s=21

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Back to concern trolling, huh

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A centrist is literally never allowed to use the phrase concern trolling considering how you talk about Bernie.

Like, it isn't trolling, we are deathly afraid Biden is going to lose. Like sure I love Bernie but Biden winning is like, OK at the end of the day, I can work with that and stuff. When we see him bumbling we are very afraid and the fact you aren't is concerning.

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I'm VERY concerned about Biden being a shitty candidate. I hate the fact that he's like presumptive Democratic nominee. And I really wish progressives learned a lesson from 2016 and fielded a candidate that could have beaten him.

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Inviso posted...

I'm VERY concerned about Biden being a shitty candidate. I hate the fact that he's like presumptive Democratic nominee. And I really wish progressives learned a lesson from 2016 and fielded a candidate that could have beaten him.

I don't think that candidate exists tbh. There are just too many in the party that want a "safe" and known choice like the former VP. I think Bernie probably cleans every other moderate's clock if they could have gotten Biden out of the race, but after South Carolina everyone bent the knee.

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Tonys made it very clear that he hates Biden, and going back to the oh hes a poor old man who doesnt even realize hes running thing is really patronizing.

And I didnt concern troll about Bernie. I criticized things I disliked about him.

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This is honestly why I've become more concerned about Biden's VP pick than Biden himself.

I honestly think they're using Biden to (try and) get elected, and then he's going to step down early into his term.

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Tony doesn't hate anyone, he is harmless just bitter. As someone who pays keen attention to Tony to try to damage control him at times (Sorry Tony) his Biden problems have always been policy AND "uh this dude is in mental decline wtf" like he's been consistent about that and I see his point, I think it's genuine even if he hates Biden!

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FFDragon posted...

This is honestly why I've become more concerned about Biden's VP pick than Biden himself.

I honestly think they're using Biden to (try and) get elected, and then he's going to step down early into his term.

Red can say this is conspiracy all he wants but it makes sense.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't think that candidate exists tbh. There are just too many in the party that want a "safe" and known choice like the former VP. I think Bernie probably cleans every other moderate's clock if they could have gotten Biden out of the race, but after South Carolina everyone bent the knee.

See, this is where I take issue. There's zero introspection. 2016, it was all about "the DNC rigged it against Bernie because it was HER turn". And now it's all the DNC's fault for being stupid and wanting to play "safe". There's no self-reflection about the possibility that Bernie specifically might be the problem. We've seen it in polling: people overwhelmingly poll in favor of M4A (which, granted, could be for a lot of reasons and they don't want the REALITY of M4A, but it sounds good on a surface level), yet those same states then turn around and vote Biden overwhelmingly. And he wins in states where he didn't even have money to throw into a campaign.

It just seems to me that, while it might feel good to run a candidate who promises to destroy a broken system, that sort of mentality alienates a solid portion of the electorate and makes them feel less comfortable voting for someone whose ideas they might somewhat agree with. It also doesn't help when a lot of vocal supporters openly shit on the demographics that turn out in larger numbers for Democrats.

It doesn't help that there seems to be a sizable amount of self-sabotage from this new progressive movement, at least from what I've seen here and on Reddit and on Twitter where Bernie is SUPER beloved. The purity tests are SO extreme that Bernie is literally the ONLY person who seems able to pass them, so progressive cut themselves out at the knees by limiting their options and not allowing alternate voices to gain any sort of footing.

I don't even know what I'm trying to say, really. I'm just frustrated because I think Biden is a bad choice, but everyone else ran horrible campaigns to allow him to take over when he seemed dead in the water, going into South Carolina. And I think progressives are going to continue to fail if they keep blaming the establishment for their shortcomings without coming up with a new strategy that works within the system.

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xp1337 posted...

well, we've come a long way when we're letting russia do PR humanitarian aid and landing military aircraft at jfk because our own government is too incompetent

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1245453784844619776

This isn't humanitarian aid. Per the state department, we purchased this.

https://www.state.gov/u-s-purchase-of-needed-supplies-from-russia/

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I don't think you know what you are talking about, respectfully. Sure there may have been some people who had zero introspection but in "who do you like polls?" Bernie's favorable have always been very high among democrats and democrat leaning independents. It's not just his policies that poll well, but the man himself polls very well too. His 2016 campaign had a lot of issues (mostly because he didn't expect to do that well and he just wanted to move Hillary to the left and not suck up to big banks) and even in most states that Biden dominates people still like Bernie. Like iirc South Carolina voters had a pretty favorable opinion of Bernie - they just voted for Biden!

Like there's no metric you can cite for any progressive that makes them better positioned than Bernie. I love Warren, disagree with some of her choices but overall I would have been completely happy with a Warren president, and she is for sure the only progressive with national bona fides close to Bernie and she uh... tanked super hard.

I also very much disagree that Bernie ran a horrible campaign. His 2016 campaign was horrible, but his 2020 campaign was very well organized, had lots of volunteers, and included a bunch of outreach to minorities. It worked well for Latino votes and black voters, well, they really like Biden.

I think people cite Twitter and Reddit too much. Those demographics tilt very young. You know what the very young aren't? seasoned voters. They don't often vote a lot (the youth vote increased, it isn't their fault old vote went crazy, the youth of this country were more involved than ever and so I don't think we should chide the generation - they are trying!) and they are inspired by their first candidate. They are going to be passionate and sometimes a bit naive and stupid, but that's to be expected. They are new to this process. They know what they want and they don't want to compromise. Naive, but also OK because maybe it is OK to fight like hell and not settle and be unreasonable. Because if you are that way and you voted, you have that right. If you cast a vote, you can be as unreasonable as you like. Because you earned it. I am not going to voter blame anyone. Voters wanted Biden this time for sure, OK, I conceded that weeks ago. I make no real judgments on that other than "you better be fucking right."

Honestly Biden spent so much resources ONLY on South Carolina and it worked just like he wanted it too. The man won states 3 days later he never even campaigned in, there's really nothing to be done by that.

Now I think news coverage was horrible as usual, and you know what? That matters.

But to say there is another candidate that would have done better just isn't true.

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If Biden had lost the Midwest, I would have been even more worried for the Dems. Because Biden winning South Carolina and so on states doesn't matter as those are going to vote Republican anyways.

But, then Biden went ahead and womped everyone in the battleground states also so nevermind then.

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10 million UE claims in 2 weeks. 6.6 million this week.

Granted this number is bolstered some by gig workers, but I mean, the economy is going to be ruined for decades and decades.

I told this this bill would go down as the biggest mistake in all of history.

People on facebook who are nurses are talking about being on UE than working right now due to the risks and the boosts. It's craziness.

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I dont think hospitals are going to be firing many nurses whether they want them to or not

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Glad he finally ordered a lockdown, but jfc how can you be a governor and have just learned this??

https://twitter.com/andishehnouraee/status/1245513642319151110?s=21

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The bill has a clause that you are eligible for unemployment if you quit because you are scared about getting the virus or have family members that need cared for.

Has nothing to do with being fired or not.

When literal nurses have started to discuss it, you know something has gone wrong.

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I don't think people are going to be quitting their stable jobs to collect a boosted unemployment check, corrik.

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Yes, it's the bill that's the problem! Not the incompetence in how we prepared for the crisis!

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Inviso posted...

It just seems to me that, while it might feel good to run a candidate who promises to destroy a broken system, that sort of mentality alienates a solid portion of the electorate and makes them feel less comfortable voting for someone whose ideas they might somewhat agree with.

pardon my ignorance but when did bernie say he promises to destroy the system? i've seen a ton of bernie speeches and i don't recall him ever saying something like that. "we need to destroy the system" seems like libertarian speak.

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-politics/bolsonaro-trump-talk-coronavirus-help-as-brazil-cases-rise-sharply-idUSKBN21K00Z

what was that about bolsonaro being "the only strong/sane world leader"? lol

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Free-Speech posted...

I don't think people are going to be quitting their stable jobs to collect a boosted unemployment check, corrik.

If they are afraid of getting sick? Yep. Sure they won't.

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Just ordered 100 surgical masks from China. Hope nobody intentionally coughed in them.

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hey look, its more of that "exponential growth" I've heard so much about!

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1245700929434931200

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https://twitter.com/andishehnouraee/status/1245513642319151110?s=21
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That's the guy who ran a campaign ad in which he pointed a gun in the general direction of a prospective suitor for his daughter and asked him what his requirements were for dating her. And one of them was support for the 2nd Amendment.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRW1HHd-iPE

Big balls Putin, 4D chess move.

Series of recent polls have now consistently shown Sanders doing worse against Trump than Biden for reasons I can't even guess at right now.

https://law.marquette.edu/poll/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/MLSP59Toplines.pdf (Wisconsin: Trump v Biden - Biden +3, Trump v Sanders - Trump +2)

https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/docs/2020-03/GCNP%20April%202020%20Toplines%20and%20Methodology.pdf (General election: Trump v Biden - Biden +4, Trump v Sanders - Trump +1)

I can only imagine those numbers getting even worse for Biden as the election draws nearer.

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Series of recent polls have now consistently shown Sanders doing worse against Trump than Biden for reasons I can't even guess at right now.

As Biden continues to win primaries, he looks like more of a winner, which makes him more popular.

As Bernie continues to lose primaries, the opposite happens.

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I think this is mostly a function of the fact that my social circles skew young and progressive rather than any kind of deliberate misinformation*. However I just want to vent about the irony that from my perspective the 2nd most widely discussed news story behind COVID-19 right now is "can you believe ABSOLUTELY NOBODY is talking about this Joe Biden scandal??" (despite the fact that you and everyone else reporting like this are literally talking about this Joe Biden scandal) Like, there are a finite number of people who can claim "not many people are talking about this" before it just becomes untrue.

*And again, this may not even be mis-information at all once you venture out of whatever bubble my social environment defines, but it's still frustrating from my point of view.
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Peace___Frog posted...

This isn't humanitarian aid. Per the state department, we purchased this.

https://www.state.gov/u-s-purchase-of-needed-supplies-from-russia/

...i can't tell if this makes it better or worse

probably worse

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Series of recent polls have now consistently shown Sanders doing worse against Trump than Biden for reasons I can't even guess at right now.

They both have pretty much 0 exposure to the public right now. It's why actually having the next debate is so important.

xp1337 posted...

...i can't tell if this makes it better or worse

probably worse

We sold them lots of grain in the 70s and 80s.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I also very much disagree that Bernie ran a horrible campaign. His 2016 campaign was horrible, but his 2020 campaign was very well organized, had lots of volunteers, and included a bunch of outreach to minorities. It worked well for Latino votes and black voters, well, they really like Biden.

I mean...that's why it's fair to say he ran a bad campaign. Organization was good but the strategy was not. He had zero plan after NV. Well, his plan was to concede SC and the rest of the South to his opponent, because he got pretty close in 2016 by doing that, which ended up being a terrible plan because the circumstances were so different. His campaign learned the wrong lessons. They banked on overwhelming new/youth turnout and didn't get it.

But ultimately I think you are right in that the type of candidates progressives need just don't exist. To get the support he needed from voters Bernie would have had to pivot to being a coalition-building candidate that will work together with community and the party - essentially a competent version of Warren's campaign with Bernie's charisma and record, and that's just not his style. And even then it would win him no favors from the establishment itself - after all they went after Warren anyways when she was briefly a frontrunner.

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Bernie is truly one of the great political failures of our time, right up there with Hillary Clinton. How people continue to make excuses for him is beyond me.

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Free-Speech posted...

Bernie is truly one of the great political failures of our time, right up there with Hillary Clinton. How people continue to make excuses for him is beyond me.

I would say he succeeded. He showed this country that we do not have to accept the likes of Hillary Clinton as our leaders.

As far as getting himself elected, yeah, he failed. But so has every far left politician in a First World country, ever. The problem is not with the candidate, it's with the ideas. People don't want socialism.

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Unless you don't call it socialism, in which case they are all-in.

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red sox 777 posted...

I would say he succeeded. He showed this country that we do not have to accept the likes of Hillary Clinton as our leaders.

How did he show that by losing to Hillary Clinton? Or are you arguing that he opened up the idea that it was okay for people to vote for Trump (in which case I agree)?

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FFDragon posted...

Unless you don't call it socialism, in which case they are all-in.

I was about to agree, but the Socialist Party in France has actually gotten elected. And, a certain party that called themselves "socialist" got elected in Germany as well. I think the stigma of socialism only attaches when the party/candidate is perceived as far left.

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xp1337 posted...

...i can't tell if this makes it better or worse

probably worse

Definitely worse.
Because their shit doesn't work.

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Free-Speech posted...

How did he show that by losing to Hillary Clinton? Or are you arguing that he opened up the idea that it was okay for people to vote for Trump (in which case I agree)?

Yes! Trump took about half of Bernie's platform and ran with it. He said the other half was socialism and he didn't support that. So Trump was able to run both to the right and to the left of Hillary, and in a time in which the center is smaller than ever, that strategy worked.

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