Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 271: Two Turds With One Stone

(+) Yeah! (+)

Shes not a sycophant though. Shes more like a Stockholm Syndrome captive who thinks she can fix the bad guys few faults
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She can deliver the female vote too. What a huge plus

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Sheriff Joe would turn off a lot of swing voters. Remember he lost his election in 2016, where Trump won. Arpaio is mainly known for being mean and cruel.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Shes not a sycophant though. Shes more like a Stockholm Syndrome captive who thinks she can fix the bad guys few faults

No, she knows what she's doing, and she's working hard for the people of Maine and the United States. And really delivering the results. I'd be very happy with her as my senator.

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Corrik7 posted...

Didn't yinz say Pence was ready to turn on Trump during the Ukraine stuff until Trump was willing to burn it all down?

...no, I actually don't believe we said that.

I definitely didn't say it at least. Hell, as the evidence later showed, I figured he knew about it all along.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Shes not a sycophant though. Shes more like a Stockholm Syndrome captive who thinks she can fix the bad guys few faults

...few?

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I imagine someone with Stockholm Syndrome has already overlooked most of them
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https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/1230904643393335298?s=21

Even 3+ years later I cant believe we elected the moron who literally said No puppet. No puppet. Youre the puppet! No youre the puppet! In a debate to be fucking president of the United States

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/1230904643393335298?s=21

Even 3+ years later I cant believe we elected the moron who literally said No puppet. No puppet. Youre the puppet! No youre the puppet! In a debate to be fucking president of the United States

We had no choice. The alternative was Hillary.

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Like really now, just what is Russia going to do that makes them so capable of deciding our elections? Bloomberg has already spent more on this election than Russia would consider doing. If the idea is that Putin is scary because he is the richest man in the world, having effective control of all of Russia's assets, well, you should probably have a problem with Bloomberg buying the election too.

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Bloombergs an American (and is not actively seeking the downfall of America).

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Bloombergs an American (and is not actively seeking the downfall of America).

So if Trump (or Congress) granted Putin American citizenship everything would be okay?

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latest polling in nevada has sanders with a double digit lead over the second place warren

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQ5nUmxjig

let's fucking go

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red sox 777 posted...

If the idea is that Putin is scary because he is the richest man in the world

Why would you ever think this was the idea?
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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/f6xuod/they_said_it_couldnt_be_done/

@DoomTheGyarados

I saw it and I loved it

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pyresword posted...

Why would you ever think this was the idea?

Why else is he scary?

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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/f6xuod/they_said_it_couldnt_be_done/

@DoomTheGyarados

2:09

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so just for the hell of it, i checked to see if there had been any more updates in the ongoing iowa recanvass/recount and see this



this shit is so sad it's hilarious

(i realize it doesn't matter at this point and will probably eventually be righted when the recount finishes but the graphic is just too funny)

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red sox 777 posted...

Why else is he scary?

Well, first off you're the one who used the word "scary", not anyone else.

But, the reason we shouldn't allow Putin to interfere in our elections is that all indications are such that Putin's best interests lie in undermining America's economic and political influence, as well as in undermining the strength of democracy more broadly so that he can legitimize his own stranglehold on Russia. So, it stands to reason that whatever is in Putin's best interest is not in our best interest as a nation. (Though, of course it is overwhelmingly likely in Donald Trump's best interest to allow Putin to interfere in the election. That does not mean it's in the nation's best interest)

This is in addition to the point that we just shouldn't be allowing foreign influence of any sort to wage massive disinformation campaigns on the citizens of our own country regardless of the motives or perceived threat level, but Putin is a particularly egregious case as I'm sure most people would agree.
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pxlated posted...

so just for the hell of it, i checked to see if there had been any more updates in the ongoing iowa recanvass/recount and see this



this shit is so sad it's hilarious

(i realize it doesn't matter at this point and will probably eventually be righted when the recount finishes but the graphic is just too funny)

Also pete is ahead by .004%

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pyresword posted...

Well, first off you're the one who used the word "scary", not anyone else.

But, the reason we shouldn't allow Putin to interfere in our elections is that all indications are such that Putin's best interests lie in undermining America's economic and political influence, as well as in undermining the strength of democracy more broadly so that he can legitimize his own stranglehold on Russia. So, it stands to reason that whatever is in Putin's best interest is not in our best interest as a nation. (Though, of course it is overwhelmingly likely in Donald Trump's best interest to allow Putin to interfere in the election. That does not mean it's in the nation's best interest)

This is in addition to the point that we just shouldn't be allowing foreign influence of any sort to wage massive disinformation campaigns on the citizens of our own country regardless of the motives or perceived threat level, but Putin is a particularly egregious case as I'm sure most people would agree.

All of that is equally applicable to Michael Bloomberg, Jeff Bezos, Amazon, or Goldman Sachs.

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New Massachusetts poll. No big changes from before.

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1230897169240133632

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484079-bloomberg-campaign-vandalism-at-tennessee-office-echoes-language-from-the

This is exactly what Ive been talking about lmao, Bloombergs campaign office got vandalized with extremely generic #resist and anti-Bloomberg insults and its being blamed on Bernie because

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https://twitter.com/nick_d_laughlin/status/1230940710263808000?s=19

aww yeah let's keep this trend going

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

https://twitter.com/nick_d_laughlin/status/1230940710263808000?s=19

aww yeah let's keep this trend going

Looks pretty favorable to me

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LOL Conservatives liked him more
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484079-bloomberg-campaign-vandalism-at-tennessee-office-echoes-language-from-the

This is exactly what Ive been talking about lmao, Bloombergs campaign office got vandalized with extremely generic #resist and anti-Bloomberg insults and its being blamed on Bernie because

Is this like the guy that had his driveway tagged by some black people that definitely 100% existed

https://ionehiphopwired.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/screen-shot-2016-07-18-at-5-20-20-pm.png
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484079-bloomberg-campaign-vandalism-at-tennessee-office-echoes-language-from-the

This is exactly what Ive been talking about lmao, Bloombergs campaign office got vandalized with extremely generic #resist and anti-Bloomberg insults and its being blamed on Bernie because

it's weird that the hill will put out pieces like this, but also put out Rising (Krystal Ball's youtube show).


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https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/1230940377865183233?s=21

Not clear to me whether this was a tracking poll or two separate polls, but the debate was clearly very bad for Bloomberg based on favorability numbers.

Unfortunately for me (though these effects are within the margin of error), the main beneficiaries of his fall were Warren and Sanders. Biden is unchanged, and all other candidates fell.

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Here's the full post-debate support changes:

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/200221_Las-Vegas-Debate_Sidebar.png

Nothing gigantic in absolute terms, but Bloomberg being the only candidate that had major 'favorable vs. unfavorable' changes is significant. It's going to kill his momentum and reduce his potential ceiling.

Jakyl25 posted...

LOL Conservatives liked him more

It's completely unsurprising yet somehow funny

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Oh whoops missed that it had been posted already...!

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got the old Drudge alarm for this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/bernie-sanders-briefed-by-us-officials-that-russia-is-trying-to-help-his-presidential-campaign/ [space]
2020/02/21/5ad396a6-54bd-11ea-929a-64efa7482a77_story.html

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I think Sanders getting a minor bump would have less to do with the debate and more to do with momentum. He's naturally picking up steam and will continue to do so unless he fucks up big time. All he has to do is not having a really bad debate showing, and he managed to avoid that.

Surprised Warren didn't receive a bigger bump than she did, but I guess it's just a matter of too little too late.

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There's one more debate between now and Super Tuesday. I imagine it'll be a final stand against Sanders by the other candidates, especially if he easily wins Nevada tomorrow. Being the "not-Sanders" pick will be meaningless if he's set to push for a majority/high-plurality on Super Tuesday.

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The one big mistake most of them made last time was not going after Bernie at all. They absolutely cant afford to do that again in the next debate; it doesnt matter who wins the lane if Bernies already getting to the point where people who just want to beat Trump collectively decide that his lead means that he is in fact the most electable.

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Pete tried going after Bernie a few times, the problem is that Bloomberg is a lightning rod for everyone else's ire and Klobuchar hates Pete SO MUCH that he gets caught up in arguing with her. Bloomberg took some shots at Bernie but they were super weak to the point that the crowd booed at a few of them. Warren was too busy powerbombing Bloomberg, and Biden...kind of just didn't try.

Honestly, I get the impression that they're at a loss for what to do when debating against Bernie. They've tried all the 'best' arguments against him in the past and none of them have worked. What are they going to say at this point? They're probably worried that going directly against Bernie will look badly on them, and are hoping that someone else comes up with a magic solution to make him look bad in a debate...and no one is.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Pete tried going after Bernie a few times, the problem is that Bloomberg is a lightning rod for everyone else's ire and Klobuchar hates Pete SO MUCH that he gets caught up in arguing with her. Bloomberg took some shots at Bernie but they were super weak to the point that the crowd booed at a few of them. Warren was too busy powerbombing Bloomberg, and Biden...kind of just didn't try.

Honestly, I get the impression that they're at a loss for what to do when debating against Bernie. They've tried all the 'best' arguments against him in the past and none of them have worked. What are they going to say at this point? They're probably worried that going directly against Bernie will look badly on them, and are hoping that someone else comes up with a magic solution to make him look bad in a debate...and no one is.

Yeah I think it is hard to attack Bernie in the context of the primary (whereas for the general its very easy), and no one wants to piss off his supporters. But the fact is that hes the frontrunner, and if he keeps coming out of debates unscathed hes probably going to remain in that position.

Im not sure what the most effective angle would be. One I like (partially because I think it would hurt less in the general if Bernie is the nominee) is challenging Sanders on electability. Maybe that doesnt work though; I dont know! The one thing that sure as fuck wont work is leaving him alone and hoping that hell implode by himself, though.

There was a really interesting article on this dilemma from Jeb!s old communications director explaining how things went down for the GOP with Trump, which definitely has some parallels (just to be clear I absolutely do not think that Bernie is anywhere near as bad as Trump, but the strategic challenge for everyone other than Bernie is pretty similar to the one faced by everyone other than Trump in 2016):

https://twitter.com/timodc/status/1230847621058768897?s=21

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Given that the democratic voters now seem to think Bernie is best positioned to beat trump in November the electability argument has probably passed

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LordoftheMorons posted...

There was a really interesting article on this dilemma from Jeb!s old communications director explaining how things went down for the GOP with Trump, which definitely has some parallels (just to be clear I absolutely do not think that Bernie is anywhere near as bad as Trump, but the strategic challenge for everyone other than Bernie is pretty similar to the one faced by everyone other than Trump in 2016):

Hopefully you and the other anti-Bernie Dems will remember 2016 and bend the knee so we can play the similarities out to the same conclusion.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yeah I think it is hard to attack Bernie in the context of the primary (whereas for the general its very easy), and no one wants to piss off his supporters. But the fact is that hes the frontrunner, and if he keeps coming out of debates unscathed hes probably going to remain in that position.

Im not sure what the most effective angle would be. One I like (partially because I think it would hurt less in the general if Bernie is the nominee) is challenging Sanders on electability. Maybe that doesnt work though; I dont know! The one thing that sure as fuck wont work is leaving him alone and hoping that hell implode by himself, though.

There was a really interesting article on this dilemma from Jeb!s old communications director explaining how things went down for the GOP with Trump, which definitely has some parallels (just to be clear I absolutely do not think that Bernie is anywhere near as bad as Trump, but the strategic challenge for everyone other than Bernie is pretty similar to the one faced by everyone other than Trump in 2016):

https://twitter.com/timodc/status/1230847621058768897?s=21

Given that we are talking about Democrats, the best thing they could do to stop Bernie is to endorse him. Imagine if Pete's 46 billionaires started running TV ads talking about how great Bernie is.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

There was a really interesting article on this dilemma from Jeb!s old communications director explaining how things went down for the GOP with Trump, which definitely has some parallels

Both Bernie and Trump are absolutely populist candidates (so was Obama, to a degree). Those kinds of candidates are hard to fight once they get going because being attacked by establishment candidates just makes them stronger. The ball is really in Bernie's court - he can't afford a major gaffe or screwup, but if he doesn't have one, he's pretty golden.

Of course, the former's main campaign message is 'let's stop people from dying of illnesses they can't pay for' while the latter's was 'fuck non-white people', so clearly not all populist candidates are cut from the same cloth.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Hopefully you and the other anti-Bernie Dems will remember 2016 and bend the knee so we can play the similarities out to the same conclusion.

Man, a lot of people must feel silly for using Daenerys as a rallying point for feminism back before Season 8 hit. RIP to all those kids named Khaleesi.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Both Bernie and Trump are absolutely populist candidates (so was Obama, to a degree). Those kinds of candidates are hard to fight once they get going because being attacked by establishment candidates just makes them stronger. The ball is really in Bernie's court - he can't afford a major gaffe or screwup, but if he doesn't have one, he's pretty golden.

Of course, the former's main campaign message is 'let's stop people from dying of illnesses they can't pay for' while the latter's was 'fuck non-white people', so clearly not all populist candidates are cut from the same cloth.

Well, there are some things that I think would have a decent shot of working. Like an Obama endorsement would be a huge deal (though apparently Obama has made it clear behind the scenes that he's absolutely not doing that and thinks it will be more useful to use his influence to unite the party at the end of a quite possibly extremely contentious primary). A group like Harris + Booker + Beto all endorsing the same moderate would also possibly be effective (Clinton would be a big deal too but could maybe backfire).

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Hopefully you and the other anti-Bernie Dems will remember 2016 and bend the knee so we can play the similarities out to the same conclusion.

I came to a bit of a realization recently that this is another thing that makes me hugely prefer Warren to Bernie. A lot of his supporters give off the vibe that they're almost more interested in being the ones that everyone has to listen to then actually advancing his policies. It's really off-putting.

I've already said that I'm voting for the Democratic nominee no matter what.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I came to a bit of a realization recently that this is another thing that makes me hugely prefer Warren to Bernie. A lot of his supporters give off the vibe that they're almost more interested in being the ones that everyone has to listen to then actually advancing his policies.

Couple things.

1. This can be easily turned around - I think the word I would use the word to describe the (toxic) Warren supporters' attitudes is dismissive. A lot of them legitimately don't care about the plight of lower-class people, nor are they bothering to understand the reason why people are rallying behind Sanders as a movement. Every candidate has shitty people.

2. I think you're putting far too much emphasis on supporters. You've mentioned Bernie Bro types more than everyone else in this topic combined - far more than Bernie's actual policies. I've MET Bernie-Or-Bust people back in 2016 who believed in Pizzagate and voted Trump. It doesn't affect my opinion of the candidate.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I came to a bit of a realization recently that this is another thing that makes me hugely prefer Warren to Bernie. A lot of his supporters give off the vibe that they're almost more interested in being the ones that everyone has to listen to then actually advancing his policies. It's really off-putting.

I've already said that I'm voting for the Democratic nominee no matter what.

Because that's where the game is at. Being listened to. You realize that is why Trump is president, right? He wasn't elected for the nuances of his policies. He provided no detail regarding his policies, only broad directions.

But he made people feel like they mattered. Like they were listened to. And he did it by actually listening, which is the same as Bernie.

It doesn't work to hear someone say my problem is X and I want you to do A to fix it, and then tell them, well I have a policy B and that's way better than A and will solve X, as well as Y and Z, so vote for me because I'm the best for your interests. That doesn't work because that is not listening.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I came to a bit of a realization recently that this is another thing that makes me hugely prefer Warren to Bernie. A lot of his supporters give off the vibe that they're almost more interested in being the ones that everyone has to listen to then actually advancing his policies. It's really off-putting.

I've already said that I'm voting for the Democratic nominee no matter what.

I can never tell if comments like this are serious or if this is some sort of excuse/defense mechanism meant to guilt others.

Are we not allowed to be concerned about you listening to us when months ago Bernie and his supporters were told to shut up and fall in line or theyd hurt Dems general election chances?

Bernie was called out as divisive for a phone-banking script saying hey, Bernies base is more diverse than Warrens for Christmas sake, like we cant friggin catch a break, dude

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I can never tell if comments like this are serious or if this is some sort of excuse/defense mechanism meant to guilt others.

Are we not allowed to be concerned about you listening to us when months ago Bernie and his supporters were told to shut up and fall in line or theyd hurt Dems general election chances?

Bernie was called out as divisive for a phone-banking script saying hey, Bernies base is more diverse than Warrens for Christmas sake, like we cant friggin catch a break, dude

He just doesn't like Bernie. He doesn't like Bernie's message or what he stands for. He doesn't like populism. He wants government by the elite. Only he wants the elite to be elite in education, technical proficiency, etc. rather than obscenely rich.

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https://i.imgur.com/b3rHEcV.jpg

I have already said my take on LotM. To me it is crystal clear he has lived a blessed life and doesn't care if people die or people get educated or if people are committing suicide at high rates because of stress. He doesn't want these things to happen, but it doesn't bother him at his core that they do. I know a lot of people have a problem with me saying that, but at the end of the day how he talks and what matters to him states that clearly.

I work in politics, I breathe it, and I know 100% out of any candidate's base on policy issues there is no candidate who has people talking more about policy positions than Bernie Sanders. Warren is up there. Everyone else is "moderate" "moderate" "electable" "socialism bad" "fearmonger fearmonger."

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KamikazePotato posted...

2. I think you're putting far too much emphasis on supporters. You've mentioned Bernie Bro types more than everyone else in this topic combined - far more than Bernie's actual policies. I've MET Bernie-Or-Bust people back in 2016 who believed in Pizzagate and voted Trump. It doesn't affect my opinion of the candidate.

I think Bernie's message and tone specifically attract this type of supporter, and it's not just random people on twitter; it's people in senior staff positions too. I think he will appoint people with this attitude to cabinet posts, and it will negatively affect the quality of his administration.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I have already said my take on LotM. To me it is crystal clear he has lived a blessed life and doesn't care if people die or people get educated or if people are committing suicide at high rates because of stress. He doesn't want these things to happen, but it doesn't bother him at his core that they do. I know a lot of people have a problem with me saying that, but at the end of the day how he talks and what matters to him states that clearly.

Convincing you that this is wrong is probably a hopeless task, but let me be clear that I don't think Bernie's proposed policies will be more effective in helping the average person than those of any of his primary opponents.

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