Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 258: Imminent Song

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hunter Biden got to a lot more than just Trumpers, they do not have the same teflon. Dem's are more forgiving because many dems still see him as the best shot to defeat Trump and Dems are Dems. A general populace isn't going to be the same.

And this isn't an argument to say that Biden will crash and burn and he has no chance against Trump, not at all. It's just an acknowledgement that his electability argument isn't an air-tight sure thing and that indicators telling us such isn't the full picture.

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Kinglicious posted...

Considering that Biden is the frontrunner and everyone identifies him as a walking gaffe machine, Dems are caring for that a lot less than usual. He's proven to be pretty teflon lite.

Couldn't this argument be made for Hillary being unlikable? It'd be easy to say "Considering that Hillary is the frontrunner and everyone identifies her as unlikable, Dems are caring for that a lot less than usual."

I think there's a definite difference when it's easier to ignore them and the whole process itself now than when it gets down to one candidate.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Nothings preventing you from introducing some more Iran War discourse. Ill gladly engage with it.

That's not my point, I'm not the media

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Could you explain Bidens appeal?

He's been a big ally to labor unions, something that holds mass appeal among black voters and a lot of middle America where I lived. People are more pissed about than anything in states like Michigan, especially now that it's a "right to work" state or whatever stupid name it is. People really want to go back to the days when unions would negotiate $30/hr work for high school educated people with great benefits and a pension, and lot of them believe that's one of the things Biden could actually work on bringing back.

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Also wow people are so convinced that Biden will win. That's crazy to me. He's polling at like 25%, and is literally the worst choice against Trump.

For him to be such a sure winner, Democrats must not care at all about beating Trump this time. I hate them too but is that really the case?

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Project Vertias released another (probably heavily edited) video. This time on a Sanders campaign field organizer. Shouldn't O'Keefe be in jail by now?

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alternatively the world is a lot dumber than we all wish it would be

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Thinking Joe Biden is more pro union than Bernie Sanders is an interesting take.


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foolm0r0n posted...

Also wow people are so convinced that Biden will win. That's crazy to me. He's polling at like 25%, and is literally the worst choice against Trump.

Worse than Buttigieg? No way.

Biden has a good shot at winning. The problem is he has a low floor because he could just naturally fuck everything up.

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foolm0r0n posted...

That's not my point, I'm not the media

Oh, I thought you were talking about this topic.

TheRock1525 posted...

He's been a big ally to labor unions, something that holds mass appeal among black voters and a lot of middle America where I lived. People are more pissed about than anything in states like Michigan, especially now that it's a "right to work" state or whatever stupid name it is. People really want to go back to the days when unions would negotiate $30/hr work for high school educated people with great benefits and a pension, and lot of them believe that's one of the things Biden could actually work on bringing back.

You already know I'm going to say this, but Bernie is THE candidate for unions, so this is a not a compelling pitch.

foolm0r0n posted...

Also wow people are so convinced that Biden will win. That's crazy to me. He's polling at like 25%, and is literally the worst choice against Trump.

For him to be such a sure winner, Democrats must not care at all about beating Trump this time. I hate them too but is that really the case?

Right? I've tried my best to convince them, but we'll see how it goes.

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Anyway speaking of unions https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/ nevada-teachers-union-endorse-bernie-sanders-ccea

There's a space for length

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You already know I'm going to say this, but Bernie is THE candidate for unions, so this is a not a compelling pitch.

If I can add on to what Rock is saying, I think you have to understand that the most important issue for the voting black community isn't a policy issue. It's getting rid of Trump. By far. Biden's entire brand is electability, reliability, familiarity, and experience in the White House. Combine that what with Rock said about his working class man of the people shtick. You don't see the appeal?

The OTHER thing you have to understand about black voters is they aren't a monolith. There are plenty of black conservatives - they just don't vote Republican because systemic racism is the backbone of the GOP. Of course these guys are going to prefer Biden.

This all applies to a considerable amount of white liberals too. It's really not that hard!

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Oh I know where Bidens support comes from: Familiarity, his assumed ability to beat Trump, hes a guy you could have a beer with.

But after a statement like I know a lot of black people and its easy to see Bidens appeal, I was hoping for something different.

That being said, I know Bernie has a lot of black support, many of his high-level staff are black, even. Biden just has that old vote locked up, of all races.

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Yeah it sucks but the youth vs old factor still continues to be the defining factor here. Gotta hope young people show up.

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This primary is much more about class and age than it is about race tbh

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So when Biden loses to Trump I don't want to hear his supporters blaming anyone but themselves for the loss.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Couldn't this argument be made for Hillary being unlikable? It'd be easy to say "Considering that Hillary is the frontrunner and everyone identifies her as unlikable, Dems are caring for that a lot less than usual."

This is totally true though. She had a ton of support from people who didn't like her personality. Her weakness was in statism and elitism, not personality.

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red sox 777 posted...

So when Hillary loses to Trump I don't want to hear her supporters blaming anyone but themselves for the loss.

Ok lol

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red sox 777 posted...

So when Biden loses to Trump I don't want to hear his supporters blaming anyone but themselves for the loss.

I hope you had this same sentiment last topic when a certain Bernie supporter made the statement that hes already dreading Bernie losing to Trump and getting blamed for the loss, even though it would be the bitter, hypocritical centrists that didnt vote for hims fault, not Saint Bernie.

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Espeon posted...

I hope you had this same sentiment last topic when a certain Bernie supporter made the statement that hes already dreading Bernie losing to Trump and getting blamed for the loss, even though it would be the bitter, hypocritical centrists that didnt vote for hims fault, not Saint Bernie.

Why? I've been warning people about Biden and Hillary being losing candidates for years. If the Dems nominate Bernie and still lose, they can at least sleep sound knowing that they gave it their best shot.

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Espeon posted...

I hope you had this same sentiment last topic when a certain Bernie supporter made the statement that hes already dreading Bernie losing to Trump and getting blamed for the loss, even though it would be the bitter, hypocritical centrists that didnt vote for hims fault, not Saint Bernie.

I believe I said that was a nightmare scenario in the face of the literal #NeverBernie movement, not that it was likely.

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But that segues perfectly into the argument for why those who truly believe the Bernie or Bust movement is something exclusive to Bernie have argued themselves into having to support Bernie.

If you say hes the only candidate with a large portion of voters who wont vote for anyone else, and your #1 goal is beating Trump over anything, then you must support Bernie, because your guys will vote for whoever.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

But that segues perfectly into the argument for why those who truly believe the Bernie or Bust movement is something exclusive to Bernie have argued themselves into having to support Bernie.

If you say hes the only candidate with a large portion of voters who wont vote for anyone else, and your #1 goal is beating Trump over anything, then you must support Bernie, because your guys will vote for whoever.

The center left has gotten to the point where I think they are simply incapable of thinking about the world in a non-moral sense.

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foolm0r0n posted...

This is totally true though. She had a ton of support from people who didn't like her personality. Her weakness was in statism and elitism, not personality.

Well, I bring it up because that's the reason people always like to bring up for why she lost/Trump won, so the question is posed moreso in that light/following that logic.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Couldn't this argument be made for Hillary being unlikable? It'd be easy to say "Considering that Hillary is the frontrunner and everyone identifies her as unlikable, Dems are caring for that a lot less than usual."

I mean... They didn't care for that? Even after the DNC helped rig things for her the vast majority of Dems still voted for her, they saw it more as a "she deserves this!" or, at the very least "still more likeable than Trump." Which quite a few disagreed with on the other side!

She didn't have to face over a dozen people in a primary to prove herself though. There's also a difference between judging likeability and dealing with a guy prone to saying dumb shit. I mean if you think Trump capitalizes on that the most then that's fair, you think it'd energize his base more and bring more in the middle to him. That's a different argument than the issue of thinking people will leave him for gaffes.

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Biden has the same problem that Hillary did - what has he accomplished in his 40 years in public service? Hillary didn't have a single big positive contribution to speak of that people have actually heard about, in her 30 years in public service. The things people have heard about are Hillarycare, Benghazi, Syria, Iraq......all failures. So what has Biden done in his 40 years in public service? The Biden Rule? That's not going to get him very far.

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I'm not saying people will leave him for gaffes

I'm saying it's certainly plausible that people that don't care for him as much will be more likely to just not vote, or vote third party, over gaffes. Dems are a lot worse for that.

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And before people ask what about Bernie - Bernie was openly a socialist through his decades in the Senate. He openly refused to join either of the 2 big parties. He has no achievements because he stuck to his principles. That's very different from being at the center of the political spectrum and having no achievements.

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Kinglicious posted...

I mean... They didn't care for that? Even after the DNC helped rig things for her the vast majority of Dems still voted for her, they saw it more as a "she deserves this!" or, at the very least "still more likeable than Trump." Which quite a few disagreed with on the other side!

The DNC didnt rig anything.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

The DNC didnt rig anything.

The DNC has tried to rig every one of their primaries since they got wrecked in 1972. Yes, they didn't need to rig a lot of those races, including probably 2016, but Nixon didn't need to rig the 1972 election to win it either. He would probably have won that one without campaigning at all. He still decided to rig it anyway.

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HashtagSEP posted...

I'm not saying people will leave him for gaffes

I'm saying it's certainly plausible that people that don't care for him as much will be more likely to just not vote, or vote third party, over gaffes. Dems are a lot worse for that.

Ah, i can see that one. Though I'd sooner see the reason be because they don't like him in general or don't like the direction of the party with him over that. It's a notable issue he's got.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

The DNC didnt rig anything.

Exactly. People keep saying that. The DNC were biased, but they didn't rig anything.

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Trump out there retweeting some more extremely questionable shit

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOK-BJiXsAAmGBJ?format=png&name=small
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I wish the #votebluenomatterwho crowd would just stay home for the primary and then come out and vote in droves no matter who it was that won.

"The DNC rigged it" crowd are honestly just as bad and stupid as the "I won't vote anybody except X" (where X seems to usually be Bernie)

Pretty sure both are far more commonly pushed by trolls and bots instead of real people though

red sox 777 posted...

The DNC has tried to rig every one of their primaries since they got wrecked in 1972. Yes, they didn't need to rig a lot of those races, including probably 2016, but Nixon didn't need to rig the 1972 election to win it either. He would probably have won that one without campaigning at all. He still decided to rig it anyway.

Forget 1972. They literally enlisted the mafia to swing the primary to Kennedy in 1960.

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A lot of black people are very much pro-union but against government (for obvious reasons). They support the idea of local people they trust getting them the best benefits, not government run programs like a Medicare for all.

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TheRock1525 posted...

A lot of black people are very much pro-union but against government (for obvious reasons). They support the idea of local people they trust getting them the best benefits, not government run programs like a Medicare for all.

You talking for Black people now?

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He's speaking for anyone who distrusts big government. I think anyone's who's been in a position where they needed to rely on government resources knows how scary that can be.

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Corrik7 posted...

You talking for Black people now?

Was born in a predominantly black city.

Worked in a different, even more predominantly black city at a job where I was one of only three white people there.

Local community is huge for them. I remember so many times watching as someone came in for the first time and everyone instantly knew what was going on in their lives.

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Lev Parnas has pictures with like every top Republican:

https://twitter.com/josephabondy/status/1214750158770102273?s=21

(Thats Levs lawyer; dont know if this is helpful for his client, but it sure is interesting!)

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Also with presidential advisers Javanka:

https://twitter.com/woodruffbets/status/1217106782730014723?s=21

(How short is he, anyway?)

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Elizabeth Warren talking about wiping out student debt on day 1 by executive decree. Uh, so the problem with that is I don't think the president can rewrite the tax code by executive decree and if you forgive 50k of student loans, that will be something like a 20k tax bill due immediately. I can't afford to just have a 20k tax bill dropped on my doorstep, so no thank you senator.

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red sox 777 posted...

Elizabeth Warren talking about wiping out student debt on day 1 by executive decree. Uh, so the problem with that is I don't think the president can rewrite the tax code by executive decree and if you forgive 50k of student loans, that will be something like a 20k tax bill due immediately. I can't afford to just have a 20k tax bill dropped on my doorstep, so no thank you senator.

Does loan forgiveness count as income?

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Kaine has the votes for his war powers resolution!

https://twitter.com/reporterjoe/status/1217170129781432322?s=21

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Does loan forgiveness count as income?

Yep. Not earned income though.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yep. Probably not earned income though?

Yes, it's income. Not earned income but that doesn't change the tax rate. It's not a capital gain or carried interest or something else with a special rate.

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red sox 777 posted...

Yes, it's income. Not earned income but that doesn't change the tax rate. It's not a capital gain or carried interest or something else with a special rate.

Yeah, though you wouldnt have to pay payroll taxes on it (on the flip side unearned income cant go towards an IRA, as I found out when I was on a fellowship).

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https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1217211610114285574

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Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane https://nyti.ms/2QS757k

... two missiles 30s apart makes this accident a lot more questionable. Was it automatic with no way to disable?

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