Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 258: Imminent Song

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Leafeon13N
01/13/20 8:02:30 PM
#203:


It's just realistic tbh, Trump voters are absolutely emboldened by a woman being his opponent.
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ChaosTonyV4
01/13/20 8:02:56 PM
#204:


I think the important thing to keep in mind is that this comes just days after a story "broke" that Bernie was "telling his volunteers to attack Elizabeth Warren".

Which was based on a telephone banking cheatsheet that essentially said to answer questions of "why not Warren" with "she doesn't bring anyone new to the democratic party".

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/12/warren-disappointed-bernie-volunteers-097984

Warren 'disappointed' that Bernie 'sending his volunteers out to trash me'
We all saw the impact of the factionalism in 2016, and we cant have a repeat of that, she said in a jab at Sanders' campaign.

It should be a non-story. It's purely factual that Bernie appeals to a broader group of people, and to construe that as some sort of attack is just lame and extremely transparent.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/13/20 8:05:36 PM
#205:


StealThisSheen posted...
Dude, come on. First you laughed at "sources," and now that she actually confirmed it, you insist she's lying? For what reason?

It means literally nothing either way, but c'mon.

I think she's stretching the truth, at best.

red sox 777 posted...
If pressed, Bernie could have said that it is harder for women to win. That is a probably accurate statement.

I would 100% believe that he said this, because as Red says, it's just realistic.

But that is not the same as "Bernie told Warren 'Women can't win'".

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red sox 777
01/13/20 8:05:51 PM
#206:


I've always felt suspicious of Warren. I think it's because she claims to represent the working class, but she worked at Harvard Law School.

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Kinglicious
01/13/20 8:40:49 PM
#207:


It's a convo between friends.
If he's more candid than usual whatever, they understand each other.

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Dancedreamer
01/13/20 8:58:56 PM
#208:


Leafeon13N posted...
It's just realistic tbh, Trump voters are absolutely emboldened by a woman being his opponent.

Is there anything that doesn't embolden Trump supporters at this point?

He's a socialist!
He's an Obama guy!
She's a woman!
He's a Liberal!
He's a moderate!
He's a billionaire!
He's a millionaire!


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red sox 777
01/13/20 9:03:09 PM
#209:


Dancedreamer posted...
Is there anything that doesn't embolden Trump supporters at this point?

He's a socialist!
He's an Obama guy!
She's a woman!
He's a Liberal!
He's a moderate!
He's a billionaire!
He's a millionaire!

Yes. There's one candidate Trump has said many good things about. Bernie.


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StealThisSheen
01/13/20 9:05:05 PM
#210:


They breathe oxygen!

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foolm0r0n
01/13/20 9:23:53 PM
#211:


Kinglicious posted...
It's a convo between friends.
If he's more candid than usual whatever, they understand each other.
I don't think there are lockers rooms in the capitol though

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Jakyl25
01/13/20 9:36:35 PM
#212:


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Paratroopa1
01/13/20 9:41:12 PM
#213:


would people really not want to try human meat if they had the option and it didn't involve murdering someone? just wondering. like I'm at least a little bit curious I'm not ashamed to admit that
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Paratroopa1
01/13/20 9:41:23 PM
#214:


put me down for "cannibal-curious"
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LordoftheMorons
01/13/20 9:43:32 PM
#215:


Definitely not

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SgtSphynx
01/13/20 10:18:33 PM
#217:


Reminder... https://twitter.com/propublica/status/1216910336793751558


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Kinglicious
01/13/20 10:38:35 PM
#218:


I mean I'm curious on human meat sure but if we did it that opens a very dangerous door. If it's something that was produced in a lab without any human being harmed, maybe. Bur that's a really, really dangerous maybe.

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Nelson_Mandela
01/13/20 10:47:54 PM
#219:


Glad to see Bernie supporters getting to understand Warren's sleazy disingenuousness firsthand

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CelesMyUserName
01/13/20 10:52:12 PM
#220:


oh man if we can take a sample of ourselves and then grow and eat out own meat I would absolutely do it

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ChaosTonyV4
01/13/20 10:56:18 PM
#221:


https://www.teenvogue.com/story/elizabeth-warrens-fake-beef-bernie-sanders-2020-primaries-heating-up/

...Teen Vogue is a Bernie Bro?

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DoomTheGyarados
01/13/20 11:05:24 PM
#222:


The fact that a conversation between two candidates was released more than a year later + me watching Scandal a lot recently makes this pretty obvious this is a desperate gasp to save her campaign.

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Wanglicious
01/13/20 11:40:57 PM
#223:


if it was a scandal to save her campaign i'd like to think she'd be in on it but she's on the record for saying it's nothing. leaves us with three situations:

1) she was in on it, saw the backlash, backtracked.
2) she wasn't in on it, other members were.
3) some people couldn't mind their own business and got offended on her behalf.

don't think she's scummy enough for 1. i don't like her but i do respect her and don't think she'd fall that far. she's also going up in polls again. 2 is entirely possible but 3 seems more likely of how something like this would start and then they'd transition it to 2. i'm sure it'll be a useless question in the debate.

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DoomTheGyarados
01/13/20 11:45:10 PM
#224:


Oh for sure, I think it is 2 or 3!

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Nelson_Mandela
01/13/20 11:48:11 PM
#225:


Wanglicious posted...
don't think she's scummy enough for 1. i don't like her but i do respect her and don't think she'd fall that far.
She lied about her race to take advantage of affirmative action. She lied about her father's occupation to seem more blue collar. She lied about being fired for getting pregnant to suck up to women's groups.

She's the scummiest candidate by far (besides Kamala) and the passes she is given by the elite media are seriously unprecedented.

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Nelson_Mandela
01/13/20 11:48:58 PM
#226:


If you don't think this is a desperate coordinated hit to smear Sanders then you are totally blind

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Wanglicious
01/13/20 11:55:05 PM
#227:


she's lied about some major things, yeah.
but for this to be a coordinated hit by her she'd need to also be lying about giving him a pass here. which hey, maybe she is and is just waiting for the debate to have a soundbite moment. if she does i'll be fine admitting that she's incredibly shrewd to do so and continue her record of 'make a lie, think it's a win, then have it be a self-own.' though i'm surprised you'd consider her scummier than biden.

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Jakyl25
01/14/20 12:32:50 AM
#228:


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HeroDelTiempo17
01/14/20 12:37:39 AM
#229:


I think it's pretty reasonable that Bernie Sanders, who is notorious for being blunt and speaking his mind freely, said something tone-deaf that Warren interpreted negatively at the time. With Warren attempting to smooth things over it seems like some people on her campaign started this shit and the media and angry twitter users blew it all way out of proportion. This might be the dumbest scandal of the primary so far, and that's saying something.

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red13n
01/14/20 12:42:29 AM
#230:


i dont think Warren even interpreted it as negative. I think it was exactly as it said, he said he didn't think a woman could win against Donald Trump.

Its not exactly an outlandish opinion to express.

I'm pretty sure I've said the exact same thing at points in these topics even. Its not even an offensive opinion to hold at that matter.

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Nelson_Mandela
01/14/20 1:20:43 AM
#231:


Wanglicious posted...
she's lied about some major things, yeah.
but for this to be a coordinated hit by her she'd need to also be lying about giving him a pass here. which hey, maybe she is and is just waiting for the debate to have a soundbite moment. if she does i'll be fine admitting that she's incredibly shrewd to do so and continue her record of 'make a lie, think it's a win, then have it be a self-own.' though i'm surprised you'd consider her scummier than biden.
This is all setting her up for a "magnanimous" debate soundbite, yes. If you think it's too low for Warren, she'll dig even further. The woman is despicable.

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red sox 777
01/14/20 1:25:43 AM
#232:


Jakyl25 posted...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/rudy-giuliani-donald-trump-impeachment/index.html

Nothing would make me happier

What if Giuliani is representing the House?

House Managers: Member of the Senate, Chief Justice, we are here to -

Senator McConnell: The Senate recognizes Rudy Guiliani as counsel for the House of Representatives.

House Managers: No, we don't-

Senator McConnell: The Senate does not recognize the House Managers. They may speak only through their counsel Mr. Guiliani. Mr. Guiliani, do you wish to call any witnesses to testify?

Mayor Guiliani: Yes, I do. I call Hillary Clinton to the stand!


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xp1337
01/14/20 1:49:47 AM
#233:


this sanders/warren thing is dumb

But if I had to take a guess at what happened here it's that someone familiar with that conversation - maybe a Warren supporter, maybe just someone who doesn't like Sanders - threw it out there as a desperation move. I'm actually more inclined to believe it's someone who doesn't like Sanders than someone trying to throw a hail mary for Warren (they're not mutually exclusive of course, but this definitely feels more like an attempt to knock down Sanders than anything. Whether it's an (over)-reaction to the also dumb "Sanders talking points script" or whatever from the other day idk.) It just feel a lot more like an attack on Sanders than it does a "flail and try to save Warren's candidacy" move.

I don't for a moment think Warren herself is "behind" it. If she says the exchange happened then I believe her, but I also believe she doesn't think it's anything worth talking about. (joke's on her the media won't let it go)

If I had to put on my guessing hat I'd say that Sanders said something to the effect of adding the additional burden of Trump weaponizing the sexism in the electorate with zero shame or subtlety would add a additional burden to defeating him that would likely prove to be insurmountable. I would disagree with that analysis but I don't for a second believe Sanders would ever mean "no woman can win ever" that's ludicrous.

And switching to cold pundit hat: I think it's inarguable that a woman faces a far more difficult battle getting elected because of sexism. I haven't shied away that selecting Warren as the nominee would be playing on "Hard Mode" to an extent even as I've supported her. In that sense I can easily buy a reasonable person saying in hyperbole/exaggeration/a private setting that looking at 2016, an incumbent Trump, and all the shit the GOP has and will do that taking on that additional challenge could be quite harmful to winning in 2020.

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red sox 777
01/14/20 2:06:53 AM
#234:


I stand by my contention that the first female president will probably be a Republican. There are people who don't want to vote for a woman but would do so out of party loyalty or to stop the Democrats from getting into power.

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Grimlyn
01/14/20 9:01:40 AM
#235:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
I think it's pretty reasonable that Bernie Sanders, who is notorious for being blunt and speaking his mind freely, said something tone-deaf that Warren interpreted negatively at the time. With Warren attempting to smooth things over it seems like some people on her campaign started this shit and the media and angry twitter users blew it all way out of proportion. This might be the dumbest scandal of the primary so far, and that's saying something.
this is correct

unfortunately media's been angling for a Warren/Sanders feud for ages so it ain't just gonna end

xp1337 posted...
I don't for a moment think Warren herself is "behind" it. If she says the exchange happened then I believe her, but I also believe she doesn't think it's anything worth talking about. (joke's on her the media won't let it go)

Mostly I don't think she's dumb enough to be "behind" it, this kind of attack would have absolutely no way of working out in Warren's favour. Way too many people that despise women playing the "woman card" in any sense and I'd say most people view Warren as less trustworthy than Bernie (many online depicting Warren as entirely untrustrable without the comparison). Even if the comments were more negative than I assume it is, it's a hearsay allegation that most would not be willing to believe easily, and it *definitely* wouldn't convince any Bernie supporters in which case what the hell point is a Bernie attack that doesn't hurt Bernie carrying a lot of blowback for Warren.

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foolm0r0n
01/14/20 9:16:51 AM
#236:


What exactly is the appeal of this Warren/Bernie issue? It's being discussed like 2x as much as the Iran war actions.

Is that exactly it, a fun distraction from the recent disasters of war and climate? A throwback to early 2000s politics?

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Kinglicious
01/14/20 9:20:32 AM
#237:


To most people, none.
To those pushing Warren (or Biden, or Pete) behind the scenes, a means to attack Bernie.

But all it really does is put both their names out there more and that, in a world where two billionaires are buying all the ads, helps them a lot to not be forgotten about. I welcome it for that alone.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/14/20 9:57:08 AM
#238:


foolm0r0n posted...
What exactly is the appeal of this Warren/Bernie issue? It's being discussed like 2x as much as the Iran war actions.

Is that exactly it, a fun distraction from the recent disasters of war and climate? A throwback to early 2000s politics?

Nothings preventing you from introducing some more Iran War discourse. Ill gladly engage with it.


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Dancedreamer
01/14/20 10:06:53 AM
#239:


This won't hurt Bernie among his base, but I think it'll hurt him elsewhere. Mostly with anyone he might've convinced to come to his side from the moderates -- which he needs to appeal to if he wants to win the primary. If anything, this helps solidify Biden's hold on the nomination. Bernie supporters are much less likely to switch to Warren if it becomes obvious she's more likely to win the nomination. And Warren supporters are less likely to switch to Bernie if it becomes obvious he's more likely to win the nomination. Progressives are going at each other, and that helps Biden more than anyone.

This might also be a way to try to pin Warren in a corner in the event she gains steam. Force her to appeal to moderates. Especially if Uncle Joe makes a major gaffe at some point (and let's face it, he probably will)

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CelesMyUserName
01/14/20 10:09:51 AM
#240:


Dancedreamer posted...
This won't hurt Bernie among his base, but I think it'll hurt him elsewhere. Mostly with anyone he might've convinced to come to his side from the moderates -- which he needs to appeal to if he wants to win the primary. If anything, this helps solidify Biden's hold on the nomination. Bernie supporters are much less likely to switch to Warren if it becomes obvious she's more likely to win the nomination. And Warren supporters are less likely to switch to Bernie if it becomes obvious he's more likely to win the nomination. Progressives are going at each other, and that helps Biden more than anyone.
another accurate take

having already been personally convinced of Biden winning since December, this definitely pushes that prediction further

Dancedreamer posted...
This might also be a way to try to pin Warren in a corner in the event she gains steam. Force her to appeal to moderates. Especially if Uncle Joe makes a major gaffe at some point (and let's face it, he probably will)
Honestly reclaiming ground she lost from moderates has always been her only viable path, going after Bernie support is an entirely unfruitful effort, they very much want Bernie and are pushed away by attacking him. The ground Liz lost to Pete were the apolitical volatile voters and her best bet to maintaining a convincing base to draw "best viable option" votes. Unfortunate her chance was when she peaked up ahead of Biden for the briefest of moments before Pete snatched it away and now she's back to her "can't win" perception.

Plus the strategy of being friendly with Bernie has also just been very beneficial to their shared progressive policies, helping possibly convince the unsavvy "moderates" together that things can be alright.

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Dancedreamer
01/14/20 10:21:03 AM
#241:


I think Biden is mostly inevitable unless he makes that major gaffe before the primaries instead of after.

Which means that Trump wins 2020, and we have to deal with four more years of this, not to mention a heavily conservative SCOTUS for years after barring us somehow taking back the senate (and if I'm being honest, I don't trust Schumer to have the backbone to refuse to allow an impeached President to replace RBG). Moderates are banking on centrists being reasonable, while believing that they can just string progressives along with whatever they do because it's better than the alternative. "Let's return to normalcy!" they say, not realizing a lot of people want to move forward, not backward. We're counting on centrists being reasonable. If they were reasonable, we'd be talking about Hillary's re-election campaign right now, instead of Trump's.

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TheRock1525
01/14/20 10:23:50 AM
#242:


Dancedreamer posted...
I think Biden is mostly inevitable unless he makes that major gaffe before the primaries instead of after.

Which means that Trump wins 2020, and we have to deal with four more years of this, not to mention a heavily conservative SCOTUS for years after barring us somehow taking back the senate. Moderates are banking on centrists being reasonable, while believing that they can just string progressives along with whatever they do because it's better than the alternative. "Let's return to normalcy!" they say, not realizing a lot of people want to move forward, not backward. We're counting on centrists being reasonable. If they were reasonable, we'd be talking about Hillary's re-election campaign right now, instead of Trump's.
I like how despite Biden polling better head to head with Trump more than any other candidate, him winning the primary guarantees another Trump presidency.

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DoomTheGyarados
01/14/20 10:28:59 AM
#243:


I trust the obvious fact that Bernie would excite unlikely voters that are often missed in polls more than I do a thin margin for Biden who excites no one.

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CelesMyUserName
01/14/20 10:30:56 AM
#244:


Honestly the fear with Biden is looking like a bumbling fool when pitted one-on-one against Trump that Trump's childish trolling strategy would actually work to the right people

Dem voters may be immune to Biden Gaffes, but Republicans love latching on to anything to own the libs

Hopefully a lot can be mitigated by the losers + Obama all pushing the candidate during the general but I wouldn't call it a guarantee

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Dancedreamer
01/14/20 10:32:15 AM
#245:


TheRock1525 posted...
I like how despite Biden polling better head to head with Trump more than any other candidate, him winning the primary guarantees another Trump presidency.

Of course he's polling well right now. He has yet to make his major gaffe. Against a guy who could say "I plan to take every liberal in the country and place them in concentration camps, along with gay people, muslims and black people," and still not lose any support.

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TheRock1525
01/14/20 10:35:46 AM
#246:


You'd think after guy who makes gaffes daily got elected president, you would realize that "gaffes" are overplayed and likely won't be be what decides the race, right?

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Dancedreamer
01/14/20 10:36:21 AM
#247:


TheRock1525 posted...
You'd think after guy who makes gaffes daily got elected president, you would realize that "gaffes" are overplayed and likely won't be be what decides the race, right?

You must live in a different reality where Republicans and Democrats are held to the same standard. Can I come and live in your reality? It sounds nice.

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HashtagSEP
01/14/20 10:36:54 AM
#248:


TheRock1525 posted...
You'd think after guy who makes gaffes daily got elected president, you would realize that "gaffes" are overplayed and likely won't be be what decides the race, right?

The problem is the left/center very much cares about gaffes.

It's Trump's base that doesn't.

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CelesMyUserName
01/14/20 10:42:44 AM
#249:


It's that right/left gaffes have different expectations

let's not pretend Trump doesn't have an incredibly low personal bar that's been normalized to him, it's not just about how Trump supporters digest that perception

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HeroDelTiempo17
01/14/20 10:44:13 AM
#250:


Dancedreamer posted...
Of course he's polling well right now. He has yet to make his major gaffe. Against a guy who could say "I plan to take every liberal in the country and place them in concentration camps, along with gay people, muslims and black people," and still not lose any support.

Don't be ridiculous.

He'd call them "detention centers."

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Kinglicious
01/14/20 10:49:09 AM
#251:


Considering that Biden is the frontrunner and everyone identifies him as a walking gaffe machine, Dems are caring for that a lot less than usual. He's proven to be pretty teflon lite.

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TheRock1525
01/14/20 10:57:32 AM
#252:


Dancedreamer posted...
You must live in a different reality where Republicans and Democrats are held to the same standard. Can I come and live in your reality? It sounds nice.
It's not a left/right thing. It's that old white men are held to a much much lower standard than any other group in this country. Biden's gaffes are seen more as endearing than anything to more of the population than you think.

I mean I spend a lot of time around black people and it's pretty easy to get Biden's appeal. They're the same people that favored Northam staying governor in Virginia despite the blackface deal and they're the most opposed to concepts like cancel culture.

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ChaosTonyV4
01/14/20 11:04:18 AM
#253:


TheRock1525 posted...
It's not a left/right thing. It's that old white men are held to a much much lower standard than any other group in this country. Biden's gaffes are seen more as endearing than anything to more of the population than you think.

I mean I spend a lot of time around black people and it's pretty easy to get Biden's appeal. They're the same people that favored Northam staying governor in Virginia despite the blackface deal and they're the most opposed to concepts like cancel culture.

Could you explain Bidens appeal?

Edit: also, if you think the Teflon coating Trump has is at all applied to Biden, I have some nice desert property in Florida to sell you.

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