Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 225: Pardon Me For My War Crimes Against Good Titles

(+) Yeah! (+)

Xeybozn posted...

Ashethan posted...

Something I really don't get about Donald Trump.

Ask a Trump Supporter 7 years ago about Donald Trump, and a lot of them would probably say they don't like him at all. They'd call him an attention whore, and a charlatan. Those same people now worship the ground he walks on. Do they not get that they've now been conned?

Trump is on their team now and he's winning, so they love him. Think of it like a player changing teams in sports; how many fans would hold a grudge against a former rival player if he came to your team and carried them to the title?

Except Trump's been on their team for a while, and they still hated him!

I guess it's down to a major difference between Republicans and Democrats.

Republicans will support a Republican no matter what they do. They never hold them to the same standards they hold other people. Corruption is bad, but only when it's Democrats doing it.
---

Ashethan posted...

Xeybozn posted...

Ashethan posted...

Something I really don't get about Donald Trump.

Ask a Trump Supporter 7 years ago about Donald Trump, and a lot of them would probably say they don't like him at all. They'd call him an attention whore, and a charlatan. Those same people now worship the ground he walks on. Do they not get that they've now been conned?

Trump is on their team now and he's winning, so they love him. Think of it like a player changing teams in sports; how many fans would hold a grudge against a former rival player if he came to your team and carried them to the title?

Except Trump's been on their team for a while, and they still hated him!

People didn't hate Trump 7 years ago. They were mostly indifferent to him. He was just some rich businessman.
---

red sox 777 posted...

Ashethan posted...

Xeybozn posted...

Ashethan posted...

Something I really don't get about Donald Trump.

Ask a Trump Supporter 7 years ago about Donald Trump, and a lot of them would probably say they don't like him at all. They'd call him an attention whore, and a charlatan. Those same people now worship the ground he walks on. Do they not get that they've now been conned?

Trump is on their team now and he's winning, so they love him. Think of it like a player changing teams in sports; how many fans would hold a grudge against a former rival player if he came to your team and carried them to the title?

Except Trump's been on their team for a while, and they still hated him!

People didn't hate Trump 7 years ago. They were mostly indifferent to him. He was just some rich businessman.

You mean he was the star of the #1 show on television
---

red sox 777 posted...

People didn't hate Trump 7 years ago. They were mostly indifferent to him. He was just some rich businessman.

I know plenty of people who hated Trump 7 years ago. It's not like he was some nobody who nobody ever heard of.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

You mean he was the star of the #1 show on television

NCIS?
---

Republicans will hold their politicians accountable when it comes to achieving their goals, or at least fighting for them. Trump's core promise was to improve the economy and create jobs, and so far under Trump the economy has been stronger than it has been since 2000. Whether Trump deserves credit for that is debatable but his supporters just look at results and what they see is success.

In my opinion, for the vast majority of swing voters the whole wall/immigration issue is really about 2 things:

1. Stop Democrats from winning elections by preventing immigrants or their children from becoming US citizens and voting for Democrats.
2. Improve job opportunities and wages for low-income Americans by stopping their competition from entering the country.

All the rest of the stuff (the allegations of crime, racism, etc.) are simply coded ways to express #1 without looking blatantly partisan. #2 was previously a big deal but is becoming less and less so with each month that the US economy remains so strong. Americans are largely finding jobs now if they want to work.
---

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48454674

US energy department rebrands gas exports 'molecules of freedom'

---

red sox 777 posted...

2. Improve job opportunities and wages for low-income Americans by stopping their competition from entering the country.

lol republicans still pretending to care about low-income Americans.
---

Ashethan posted...

red sox 777 posted...

2. Improve job opportunities and wages for low-income Americans by stopping their competition from entering the country.

lol republicans still pretending to care about low-income Americans.

Republicans go to low-income Americans on bended knee, ask them what they want, and promise to give it to them. Democrats are too aloof to talk to them much and when they do, they deliver lectures about how the Democratic Party is acting in their best interests.

There should be no surprise which strategy gets the votes.
---

red sox 777 posted...

Republicans go to low-income Americans on bended knee, ask them what they want, and promise to give it to them. Democrats are too aloof to talk to them much and when they do, they deliver lectures about how the Democratic Party is acting in their best interests.

No, Republicans tell low income workers that money will "Trickle Down" as long as they give tax cuts to the rich. They tell them that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE while giving money to Saudi Arabia. They tell them that their problems are all the other people on welfare, when corporate welfare is far costlier. They continue the war on drugs, despite it disproportionately affecting poor people (especially poor people of color) Republicans are fantastic con artists, but they don't get to pretend to actually care about low income workers.

I mean Hillary Clinton won with voters making under $50k/year.
---

Ashethan posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Republicans go to low-income Americans on bended knee, ask them what they want, and promise to give it to them. Democrats are too aloof to talk to them much and when they do, they deliver lectures about how the Democratic Party is acting in their best interests.

No, Republicans tell low income workers that money will "Trickle Down" as long as they give tax cuts to the rich. They tell them that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE while giving money to Saudi Arabia. They tell them that their problems are all the other people on welfare, when corporate welfare is far costlier. They continue the war on drugs, despite it disproportionately affecting poor people (especially poor people of color) Republicans are fantastic con artists, but they don't get to pretend to actually care about low income workers.

That was before Donald Trump. Have you listened to his rhetoric since 2015?
---

red sox 777 posted...

That was before Donald Trump. Have you listened to his rhetoric since 2015?

Yes. He's done tax cuts for the rich, done nothing for healthcare, and continues to give money to saudi arabia.

And again, Hillary Clinton won with voters making under $50k/year. By a significant margin too.
---

https://twitter.com/zevshalev/status/1134115113768837121?s=21

Someone else transcribe this and tell me if Im hearing what Im hearing, and Trump literally called himself Russias insurance policy?
---

Ashethan posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That was before Donald Trump. Have you listened to his rhetoric since 2015?

Yes. He's done tax cuts for the rich, done nothing for healthcare, and continues to give money to saudi arabia.

And again, Hillary Clinton won with voters making under $50k/year. By a significant margin too.

I said rhetoric. Not action, rhetoric. No doubt Hillary won with voters making under 50k, but she probably won that group (adjusted by inflation) by less than any Democrat since FDR made it the core of the Democratic base, with the possible exception of Reagan's 1984 landslide or Nixon's 1972 landslide.

Also, if people believe in trickle down, then tax cuts for the rich are good policy for helping low-income workers. The tax cuts for low-income workers were also very substantial (dwarfed by tax cuts for the rich only because the rich pay so much more in taxes that the same percentage cut yields far more in absolute terms).

Healthcare reform partially failed, but 1) the Republicans tried and 2) they did manage to get rid of the individual mandate, which saves low-income workers without employer healthcare about $2,000 a year if they decide not to buy insurance.
---

Hey dont lie- Republicans have never held one of their politicians accountable.

red sox 777 posted...

Also, if people believe in trickle down, then tax cuts for the rich are good policy for helping low-income workers.

If you believe you can fly, should you just jump off a building to test it out? Or go with common logic, and keep your feet firmly on the ground based on evidence that people, in fact, cannot fly?
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/zevshalev/status/1134115113768837121?s=21

Someone else transcribe this and tell me if Im hearing what Im hearing, and Trump literally called himself Russias insurance policy?

but wasn't it actually the dems who colluded with russia and hillary clinton was the puppet
---

I think the simulation is breaking down, guys
---

Ashethan posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Also, if people believe in trickle down, then tax cuts for the rich are good policy for helping low-income workers.

If you believe you can fly, should you just jump off a building to test it out? Or go with common logic, and keep your feet firmly on the ground based on evidence that people, in fact, cannot fly?

If I believed I could fly, I might very well jump off a building to experience the joy of flying. If I had evidence that people cannot fly, I would likely modify my belief in my ability to fly. But obviously, my actions must be based on my beliefs.
---

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Hey dont lie- Republicans have never held one of their politicians accountable.

Hey, Republican politicians generally do a pretty good job of representing their constituents, so this whole problem of holding our representatives accountable is a little foreign to us. It's not a problem we have to deal with very often.
---

Right because its such a foreign concept that republicans do anything bad in office lmfao

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Right because its such a foreign concept that republicans do anything bad in office lmfao

I think the point is that Republicans would vote for John Wayne Gacy as long as his policy was conservative enough.
---

GuessMyUserName posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/zevshalev/status/1134115113768837121?s=21

Someone else transcribe this and tell me if Im hearing what Im hearing, and Trump literally called himself Russias insurance policy?

but wasn't it actually the dems who colluded with russia and hillary clinton was the puppet

Yes, thats actually what hes saying. Hes saying they wanted her to win, but they also helped him win as an insurance policy
---

Trump is likening it to normal political donations, where you give to both sides so either will feel indebted to you if they win.
---

Admitting to accepting any donation from a foreign government while you were running for President should immediately invalidate the presidency and start criminal charges. Didn't know it was bad? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they love to say to poor people, should have voted for an actual politician cause they may have known.

William Barr is weighing in saying that in his opinion, Robert Mueller could have made a determination notwithstanding his inability to file charges. Since he didn't do so, the attorney general took it upon himself to make such a determination based on the evidence in the report and his determination is that there is not enough evidence to support a charge of obstruction.
---

More legal conclusions from attorney general Barr: Obama administration officials did not commit treason. Partial exoneration?
---

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1134207549249654786

Lib Dems polling in first pushed by their opposition to brexit. Labour and the Conservatives third and fourth for the first time ever.

IN-VINCE-BLE
---

Lightning Strikes posted...

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1134207549249654786

Lib Dems polling in first pushed by their opposition to brexit. Labour and the Conservatives third and fourth for the first time ever.

IN-VINCE-BLE

Come on Tories, fall in line behind the Brexit Party. I'm sure President Trump would be happy to negotiate a new trade bloc with Prime Minister Farage, consisting of the UK and her former colonies, with free trade and no tariffs.
---

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/446174-nevada-democratic-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-bill

Good for Nevada!
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/446174-nevada-democratic-governor-vetoes-national-popular-vote-bill

Good for Nevada!

Bravo!
---

lol the One Nation and liberal Tories have said they won't accept Johnson as PM, Farage is far worse. It would be doom on the party worse than when the Lib Dems went into coalition and got banished to the fringes for almost a decade.

Besides, while FPTP is a fickle goddess, the estimates I have seen say LIB-LAB-SNP or LIB-LAB - the Tories get hit the hardest in seats regardless, similar to what happened in 1997. The poll actually has some interesting data, it shows the Brexit Party only winning in Midlands/Wales while the Lib Dems win the South and London, Labour win the North (a lot of Leave voters who prioritise other issues and will never go right in a general election here) and the SNP win Scotland as well. It is entirely possible that Plaid Cymru could win Wales too - YouGov don't show it separately which is annoying.

https://i.redd.it/nivwekf03f131.png

This map of what it looks like is kind of crazy - really shows the regional discrepancies.
---

Lightning Strikes posted...

lol the One Nation and liberal Tories have said they won't accept Johnson as PM, Farage is far worse. It would be doom on the party worse than when the Lib Dems went into coalition and got banished to the fringes for almost a decade.

Besides, while FPTP is a fickle goddess, the estimates I have seen say LIB-LAB-SNP or LIB-LAB - the Tories get hit the hardest in seats regardless, similar to what happened in 1997. The poll actually has some interesting data, it shows the Brexit Party only winning in Midlands/Wales while the Lib Dems win the South and London, Labour win the North (a lot of Leave voters who prioritise other issues and will never go right in a general election here) and the SNP win Scotland as well. It is entirely possible that Plaid Cymru could win Wales too - YouGov don't show it separately which is annoying.

https://i.redd.it/nivwekf03f131.png

This map of what it looks like is kind of crazy - really shows the regional discrepancies.

Fascinating. I love these maps.

What I meant is not a Brexit-Tory coalition though - there are not the votes for that. Farage's path to victory depends on the 18% of voters who said they would vote for the Tories in that poll defecting en masse to the Brexit Party. That would likely turn most of that huge swath of Lib Dem seats across the South light blue - these are mostly seats held by Tories now, that voted Leave (by small margins), so I'm pretty sure what's happening on that map is that major vote splitting between Brexit and Tories are placing Lib Dems in first.

Of course as the election approaches, a lot of Labour voters may defect to Lib Dems too, but I think there should be a built-in advantage for Brexit in the FPTP system because the Remain vote was concentrated in London and Scotland. All those London districts voting 75%+ for Remain will create wasted votes from overconcentration in a general election.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/United_Kingdom_EU_referendum_2016_area_results.svg

If Tory voters behaved like US Republican voters they would surely fall in line behind Farage, and if Labour voters behaved like US Democratic voters they would not fall in line behind the Lib Dems to nearly the same degree. I think the Tories do have the same ruthlessness and belief that the ends justifies the means as Republicans, but I feel the mother party has lost most of its political acumen. It's hard to imagine Republicans presiding over the trainwreck of the last several years in the UK, which all stems from the Tories' failure to understand why and how FPTP in single-member districts benefits them. The Tories worked hard for centuries to establish FPTP in the UK and its former colonies and appear to have forgotten its benefits.
---

Now, I thought of a great solution to this whole Brexit fiasco that can make some more people happy (maybe we can get to 50% plus one?).

We will have a new referendum....on the secession of England from the United Kingdom.

If a yes vote is returned, England will secede from the UK and Scotland will continue as the legal heir to the United Kingdom. The Westminster Parliament (the legal continuation of the Parliaments of independent England and Scotland) would shed its English MPs and move to Scotland where it would resume sitting as the same historical Scottish Parliament dating back hundreds of years. A new English Parliament would be established for the newly independent nation of England.

One of the first acts of the Scottish Parliament (the continuation of the UK Parliament), sitting without the English MPs, would be to revoke Article 50. Meanwhile, England, as a new nation, would not be a member of the EU and would not apply for entry unless at some point its people voted for a government that wanted to do so.

I hope that this plan could establish a temporary coalition between the Brexit Party and the SNP,
---

I realize Northern Ireland presents a thorny problem. Personally, I would just return it to Ireland, but I understand a lot of Unionists there don't want that. I suppose we give them a referendum with 4 options:

1. Stay with Scotland in the "United Kingdom."
2. Secede from the UK and form a new union with England.
3. Secede from the UK and reunify with Ireland.
4. Secede from the UK and become an independent nation.
---

red sox 777 posted...

Ashethan posted...

red sox 777 posted...

2. Improve job opportunities and wages for low-income Americans by stopping their competition from entering the country.

lol republicans still pretending to care about low-income Americans.

Republicans go to low-income Americans on bended knee, ask them what they want, and promise to give it to them. Democrats are too aloof to talk to them much and when they do, they deliver lectures about how the Democratic Party is acting in their best interests.

There should be no surprise which strategy gets the votes.

I think republicans speak to people's successes as being earned solely through individual merit, and democrats are more likely to speak about the successes as being achieved through the efforts of society.

I do agree that there are parts of the populace that either side act too aloof about, and instead deliver lectures.
---

Right, a republican will somehow look at Donald Trump or Mitt Romney or George W Bush, folks who were born rich and given access to elite schools and people, and large sums to start their lives, and somehow conclude managing to not lose a rigged race was due to their own inherent value, and deserved. You know, the rich guys with massive egos do anyway. The poor ones are largely dopey bootlickers who love to serve power as long as they aren't at the bottom of the heirarchy and can be part of the winning side.

Nrrr posted...

Right, a republican will somehow look at Donald Trump or Mitt Romney or George W Bush, folks who were born rich and given access to elite schools and people, and large sums to start their lives, and somehow conclude managing to not lose a rigged race was due to their own inherent value, and deserved. You know, the rich guys with massive egos do anyway. The poor ones are largely dopey bootlickers who love to serve power as long as they aren't at the bottom of the heirarchy and can be part of the winning side.

Individual merit can be a preceding generation's merit. Some ancestor originally propelled the family to wealth, and it must have been that person's merit!
---

red sox 777 posted...

Nrrr posted...

Right, a republican will somehow look at Donald Trump or Mitt Romney or George W Bush, folks who were born rich and given access to elite schools and people, and large sums to start their lives, and somehow conclude managing to not lose a rigged race was due to their own inherent value, and deserved. You know, the rich guys with massive egos do anyway. The poor ones are largely dopey bootlickers who love to serve power as long as they aren't at the bottom of the heirarchy and can be part of the winning side.

Individual merit can be a preceding generation's merit. Some ancestor originally propelled the family to wealth, and it must have been that person's merit!

Right, people who think that are the dopey bootlickers who love to serve power. The GOP symbol really should be a dog.

Nrrr posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Nrrr posted...

Right, a republican will somehow look at Donald Trump or Mitt Romney or George W Bush, folks who were born rich and given access to elite schools and people, and large sums to start their lives, and somehow conclude managing to not lose a rigged race was due to their own inherent value, and deserved. You know, the rich guys with massive egos do anyway. The poor ones are largely dopey bootlickers who love to serve power as long as they aren't at the bottom of the heirarchy and can be part of the winning side.

Individual merit can be a preceding generation's merit. Some ancestor originally propelled the family to wealth, and it must have been that person's merit!

Right, people who think that are the dopey bootlickers who love to serve power. The GOP symbol really should be a dog.

To symbolize loyalty? That seems fair.
---

way too much red sox posts on this page and i can't even see them directly
---

red sox has really amped up the quantity of his posting lately.
---

He really should see a doctor. It can't be healthy for that much shit to come out of a person everyday.
---

"A request was made to the U.S. Navy to minimize the visibility of USS John S. McCain, however, all ships remained in their normal configuration during the President's visit," Rear Admiral Charlie Brown, chief of information, said in a statement to NBC News

Glad thats settled
---

New poll came out today showing Brexit Party in 1st for general election on 26% of the votes and 20 seats shy of an overall majority. This poll also has Lib Dems at 16% and behind Labour.....seems kind of weird how far apart the Lib Dem number is from where they are in the other poll (24%).
---

So there was a request but Charlie Brown said no.
---

https://twitter.com/BilldeBlasio/status/1135528814740746241

Oh no
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/BilldeBlasio/status/1135528814740746241

Oh no

This is almost peak "hello fellow kids"
---

Almost?
---

Donald Trump: Separates children from their families for coming to the US without a formal invitation.

Also Donald Trump: Brings all* of his kids to the UK without a formal invitation.

*Tiffany doesn't count, obviously.
---