Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 225: Pardon Me For My War Crimes Against Good Titles

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tiffany's here as well.
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As embarrassing as he managed to make that point, de Blasio is right, Trump has no business saying he will be a friend of the UK then insulting the capital's elected mayor, for the following crimes: allowing people to protest Trump, and being a muslim.

Of course let's not let the circus distract us: Trump was out there repeating what US ambassador Woody Johnson (yes, that is his name) was saying: if there is a trade deal between the US and the UK the NHS will be on the table. This is horrific and shows just what the disaster capitalists want to do if brexit happens.
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The NHS will be on the table? As in getting rid of it for a deal?

What??
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Selling it off to the US for trade, basically. It's a nightmare scenario though also probably something being used to get access to other services and utilities because the NHS is a sacred cow.

The sad thing is a lot of left wing working class people voted for brexit because they thought it would protect the NHS.

Also Sajid Javid, the Home Secretary, was mysteriously excluded from the state banquet despite his very high office. CAN'T IMAGINE WHY
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Under what twisted logic would that possibly even be relevant to a trade deal?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Under what twisted logic would that possibly even be relevant to a trade deal?

Do you know how big the NHS is? American healthcare firms want that pie.
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Trump has not specified and I am not sure he understands it, but it could be a few things. It could be selling off ownership in exchange for goods and services, or it could be something smaller but still devastating like replacing UK medical suppliers with the vastly more expensive US ones, or selling hospitals to US corporations.

I don't think any sane PM would agree to that though.
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There's no need for alarm. Trump just likes to start his negotiations by demanding the moon. He'll bargain down very quickly if you give him what he wants (for example, Trump Tower London, Trump Tower Edinburgh, annual military parades celebrating the victory of the Allies in World War II - rotated between Washington, London, and Moscow, removal of the windmills off the Scottish coast where his golf courses are).

I think the above list, plus a Queen's speech honoring President Trump for saving the UK from the European Union by stiffening the resolve of its leaders to carry out the democratic will of the people and providing them with valuable advice on the art of the deal, would probably be sufficient to secure a new common market between the US and UK, without free movement of people.
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GildedFool posted...

Tiffany's here as well.

I assume she had to buy her own airfare?

No, but seriously, I'm surprised by this. I didn't bother looking it up because I just assumed she wouldn't be included.
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Who?
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kevwaffles posted...

GildedFool posted...

Tiffany's here as well.

I assume she had to buy her own airfare?

No, but seriously, I'm surprised by this. I didn't bother looking it up because I just assumed she wouldn't be included.

I don't think she flew with the family. Her boyfriend studies in London and she was already here and then joined up once they arrived.
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So apparently when this administration insisted there was a humanitarian crisis at the border they meant it differently than what one may have expected.

A man is on trial for providing water and shelter to two migrants at the deadliest crossing in Arizona. He faces a 20 year sentence and would be the first time a humanitarian worker on the border was sent to prison:

https://twitter.com/hannahdreier/status/1135901766896295937

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/us/trial-scott-warren-no-more-deaths-volunteer-migrants-arizona-invs/index.html
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jesus christ
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I don't know if red sox's visions of the U.K. and its relationship with America are scary, pathetic or hilarious. At least we can add the single market to the list of things he doesn't understand.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

I don't know if red sox's visions of the U.K. and its relationship with America are scary, pathetic or hilarious. At least we can add the single market to the list of things he doesn't understand.

I hope hilarious.
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xp1337 posted...

So apparently when this administration insisted there was a humanitarian crisis at the border they meant it differently than what one may have expected.

A man is on trial for providing water and shelter to two migrants at the deadliest crossing in Arizona. He faces a 20 year sentence and would be the first time a humanitarian worker on the border was sent to prison:

https://twitter.com/hannahdreier/status/1135901766896295937

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/03/us/trial-scott-warren-no-more-deaths-volunteer-migrants-arizona-invs/index.html

There's no way he's getting 20 years. It's a very long maximum sentence but the judge won't impose that. It's like the marine biologist who faced 20 years for feeding whales.
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Also the high school student who faced 38 years in prison for cheating in high school. He got 30 days (which is still outrageously high for high school cheating, but it's not 38 years).
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Well I guess the bigger point is that this person is a hero doing objectively good things for society and is still getting a prison sentence while absolute vultures and ghouls get wealth and power beyond imagination

Man Gives water to someone: "YOU COULD GET TWENTY YEARS IN PRISON!"

Brock Turner Rapes a girl: Eh, 3 months is fine.

New York Bus Driver rapes 14 year old girl: Probation should do it.

Someone has a bit too much marijuana? LIFE IN PRISON

Rich kid runs over and kills 4 people, gets probation. Flees the country with his mom, gets very little jail time.

Our Justice System is pretty fucked up.
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Ashethan posted...

Man Gives water to someone: "YOU COULD GET TWENTY YEARS IN PRISON!"

Brock Turner Rapes a girl: Eh, 3 months is fine.

New York Bus Driver rapes 14 year old girl: Probation should do it.

Someone has a bit too much marijuana? LIFE IN PRISON

Rich kid runs over and kills 4 people, gets probation. Flees the country with his mom, gets very little jail time.

Our Justice System is pretty fucked up.

glares at the recent news of George Nader along with his long, long horrific history

yep
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Beginning to think that "justice" is just about keeping the proles in line, doing racism, and populating our cheap labor factories and has literally nothing to do with justice at all.

You lie; you arent just beginning to think that
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To be fair here:

The article xp posted says that this sort of thing has been happening with this organization for a while now, and in "many of the previous cases" the charges were dropped. (Reading between the lines, my guess is that some volunteers have been charged with misdemeanors for things related to their humanitarian work, but attempts at felony charges that come with prison sentences have been unsuccessful)

"Trump amped up a lot of this fear, but 15 years ago I experienced exactly the same thing," said Shanti Sellz, a vegetable farmer in eastern Iowa. Sellz was a college student and visiting summer volunteer at No More Deaths in 2005 when she and another volunteer, Daniel Strauss, were arrested by Border Patrol agents while driving three dangerously ill undocumented immigrants to a hospital in Tucson. They spent three days in federal custody and were charged with conspiracy and transporting illegal aliens, both felonies.

"We argued that humanitarian aid is never a crime," Sellz said by phone.

That case, too, wound up before Judge Collins [the same judge overseeing this case]. In September 2006, he dismissed the charges, noting that No More Deaths had shared its protocols with the Border Patrol to make sure it was following the law, and that "for three years, the conduct of people similar to those now charged in this case had been, at least tacitly, approved by the Border Patrol."

Assuming CNN is accurately reporting the details of the cases it's a problem that this is happening at all, but the I do think the implication that this guy is going to get 20 years in prison or even ANY time in prison is unfounded, for the moment.
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Nrrr posted...

Beginning to think that "justice" is just about keeping the proles in line, doing racism, and populating our cheap labor factories and has literally nothing to do with justice at all.

Lol
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Nrrr posted...

Beginning to think that "justice" is just about keeping the proles in line, doing racism, and populating our cheap labor factories and has literally nothing to do with justice at all.

There's a reason that it used to be that when you sued another private subject in the royal courts in a civil case for something mundane like refusing to pay a bill you still had to plead that the defendant had acted "with force and arms against the king's peace."

Our modern crime of theft is historically rooted in an offense against public order. That's why borrowing a billion dollars (so that at the point they hand you the money you have permission) and refusing to pay it back is not a crime while taking one candy bar (without permission at the moment you take the candy bar) is a crime. And using force to take that candy bar is a felony punishable by a long time in prison and permanent loss of your civil rights.
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https://twitter.com/rmc031/status/1135661313428996096?s=21

We truly are gonna try fighting fire with fire when we nom Biden
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2020 is honestly shaping up to be the first election of my lifetime with two quality candidates who would make at least "good" presidents
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Totally indisputable take: There is a zero percent chance that Biden wins the general and anyone who votes for him knows it, they just prefer Trump to Bernie.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

2020 is honestly shaping up to be the first election of my lifetime with two quality candidates who would make at least "good" presidents

So you think there's a high likelihood that Trump will be impeached + removed (and Pence will not run for... some reason)?
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Nrrr posted...

Totally indisputable take: There is a zero percent chance that Biden wins the general and anyone who votes for him knows it, they just prefer Trump to Bernie.

lol
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Are you disputing the indisputable?!

Nrrr posted...

Totally indisputable take: There is a zero percent chance that Biden wins the general and anyone who votes for him knows it, they just prefer Trump to Bernie.

I'm surprised that you believe Biden supporters are smart enough to "know" anything.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

2020 is honestly shaping up to be the first election of my lifetime with two quality candidates who would make at least "good" presidents

Vermin Supreme, and ??
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Xeybozn posted...

Nrrr posted...

Totally indisputable take: There is a zero percent chance that Biden wins the general and anyone who votes for him knows it, they just prefer Trump to Bernie.

I'm surprised that you believe Biden supporters are smart enough to "know" anything.

I don't know why you think that I think people who support politicians I don't like are stupid. There isn't like a "smartest" answer to the best way to organize your society without defining your goals, and the issue is they have significantly different goals than I do.

pyresword posted...

Assuming CNN is accurately reporting the details of the cases it's a problem that this is happening at all, but the I do think the implication that this guy is going to get 20 years in prison or even ANY time in prison is unfounded, for the moment.

IDK if this was directed at me or just the discussion that ensued, but I didn't intend to imply "oh man he's getting 20 years" I was just stating that the charges could carry such a sentence.

I do think that, particularly given the judge's previous actions in similar cases, there's a good chance the case is dismissed... but that it has actually reached this point is awful.

(I also don't think the idea of any jail time is unfounded. I feel like one "bad" court result isn't really that crazy a thing. We see them all the time. Like, if you made me guess the outcome I'd say it's dismissed, but I don't think it's outlandish that some BS happens and you see a short sentence or something.)
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It's also just pretty damning of the justice system that they have such arbitrary discrepancies in sentencing, and we all know that wealthier, and whiter people tend to get the shorter sentences. Like it's great this guy probably won't be severely punished, but it also shouldn't be even a possibility!

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1135531624500670466

This is everything wrong with liberals, man. Even in their ideal scenario they don't win against conservatives. They just get a stalemate, which means inevitably everything that happens is just what the right wing wants. Liberals will never stop fascism. The only people they do actually want to defeat is the left.

I mean, I don't think that's a good solution, but I appreciate Buttigieg being one of the few to speak openly that we need to do something about the Supreme Court given what's happened with it. At least it can help get the conversation into the mainstream.
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This whining about the Supreme Court is ridiculous. The liberals packed the Court in the 30s and 40s and created a new judicial regime that was at odds with 140 years of jurisprudence in this country. After Reagan and Bush were elected, conservatives were finally able to appoint some balanced people onto the Supreme Court, and there has finally been a relatively minor pushback over the last 25 years or so. If you want more justices, win more elections.
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And Buttigieg's idea is a nonstarter. That would actively enshrine the Democratic and Republican parties into our constitutional system. We are not a Communist country, there is no place for our laws to give special preference to some parties over others.
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1136067842879709184

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1136101435786047493

Also love when Trump self-owns because he doesn't understand how quotation marks work
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I actually think Buttigieg's Supreme Court proposal is pretty good, though I think there would be a lot of fighting over whether or not and how it's implemented so I don't think it's going to happen - but I do think there could be bipartisan public support for this issue, since the use of the Supreme Court as a political football is a really big problem and Buttigieg's proposal could put a stop to it

red sox 777 posted...

If you want more justices, win more elections.

Remind me who won the 2012 election again? I forget. I must be confused because I thought it was Barack Obama. That can't be right because there's no way they would have blocked a nomination for over 20% of a presidential term.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

red sox 777 posted...

If you want more justices, win more elections.

Remind me who won the 2012 election again? I forget. I must be confused because I thought it was Barack Obama. That can't be right because there's no way they would have blocked a nomination for over 20% of a presidential term.

Barack Obama. And the Republicans won the 2014 Senate elections. You need the Presidency and the Senate to place a new justice on the Supreme Court.
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red sox 777 posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

red sox 777 posted...

If you want more justices, win more elections.

Remind me who won the 2012 election again? I forget. I must be confused because I thought it was Barack Obama. That can't be right because there's no way they would have blocked a nomination for over 20% of a presidential term.

Barack Obama. And the Republicans won the 2014 Senate elections. You need the Presidency and the Senate to place a new justice on the Supreme Court.

And it's almost like every other time when the President and Senate majority were from opposing parties, the Senate still approved the reasonable nominations from the President. And then this shit happened:

Garland's nomination expired on January 3, 2017, with the end of the 114th Congress. The nomination remained before the Senate for 293 days, the longest nomination process in the history of Supreme Court nominations.

Your arguing in bad faith is noted.
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"Every other time" was before the Democrats invoked the nuclear option in 2013 to get rid of the filibuster and rammed through a bunch of judges. The Senate is not supposed to be a rubber stamp for the President.
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red sox 777 posted...

And Buttigieg's idea is a nonstarter. That would actively enshrine the Democratic and Republican parties into our constitutional system.

It's definitely one of the worst aspects. It would be one thing if his proposal was 5 judges for any theoretical major party to choose, or for the % of judges to represent the rough makeup of Congress instead of being life appointments, but it literally just enshrines the current system of Dems and GOP forever. And the 5 judges being picked by the other judges is just ridiculous and incredibly unnecessary. It's like an added layer of compromise, just in case.
There is quite literally no way in which his proposal is better than what we have, and it's actually a much worse situation for Democrats unless you are extremely pessimistic about the presidential aspirations of Democrats in the coming century. The only appeal it has is to wonks who love government pageantry, the types for whom the more complex the system and the more power it gives to right wingers the better. It's like they just keep showing up to a knife fight completely shocked the other people brought guns.

By the way, we've tried a very very similar thing before. In 1876 three Southern states submitted 2 sets of electoral votes to Congress. If the Republican won all of the electoral votes from the 3 states, he would win the presidency by 1 electoral vote, whereas if the Democrat got a single electoral vote from any of the 3 states, he would win. There was no doubt that the Democrat had won the popular vote comfortably.

Congress is charged with counting the electoral votes by the Constitution. To resolve the impasse, Congress came up with a plan very similar to Buttigieg's. The Republicans got to appoint 5 commissioners, the Democrats got to appoint 5 commissioners, and 5 commissioners were chosen from the ranks of active Supreme Court justices, who supposedly would be non-partisan.

The commission voted 8-7 to accept the entire slate of Republican electoral votes, for all 3 of the contested states. Each vote was 100% party line. The extra Republican Supreme Court justice made the difference. And Rutherford B. Hayes was elected as President by an electoral vote of 185 to 184.
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red sox 777 posted...

"Every other time" was before the Democrats invoked the nuclear option in 2013 to get rid of the filibuster and rammed through a bunch of judges. The Senate is not supposed to be a rubber stamp for the President.

"Every other time" was before Mitch McConnell unleashed unprecedented levels of obstruction in congress, threatening the very function of our political system, all to ensure that Barack Obama's second term was a complete failure (as per his exact sentiments in 2010 that his main goal was to ensure the Democrats didn't get two terms in the White House), thus requiring the elimination of the lower court filibuster just to get anything accomplished.
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Wahhhh why are there consequences for the shitty actions taken by the people that I support
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