Board 8 > Board 8 Comic Book Club #1

(+) Yeah! (+)

Having just finished I have to comment that slayride was a time in comics I mostly missed out on but now don't feel too too bad. There was some good one shot slice of life things in here and ends up being a good bruce story - its just the same Bruce story they always tell.

The trouble is I dont think I really want to hear the Tim Drake continuation of this story either.

As for Year 1 - I thought the decision to focus everything through Gordon is a good one even if it did result in things like Foxs weird Gotham show. I do dislike the idea that everyone in the batsphere is a Secret BadAss (honestly the short story about Alfred being a former spy is way way worse on this front) but it works overall.
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Don't forget that today is the last official day to read the Week 1 material. I will be posting Week 2 material tomorrow morning. You can, however, continue discussing the previous material as you wish. I'm not going to close discussion or anything.
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Eddv posted...

As for Year 1 - I thought the decision to focus everything through Gordon is a good one even if it did result in things like Foxs weird Gotham show. I do dislike the idea that everyone in the batsphere is a Secret BadAss (honestly the short story about Alfred being a former spy is way way worse on this front) but it works overall.

Which short story are you referring to, out of curiosity? I love that Alfred is ex-military and it's really fun to see that come up on occasion and in stuff like Gotham. The only story I've read where I thought it really stretched believability was IIRC the Snyder All-Star Batman which gave him a super elaborate backstory. I also think there was something with his long lost son but I dont remember. Some decent characterization in there but man that plot was totally off the rails.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Id like to toss in a special request for any Mirage or IDW TMNT stuff that you know is quality

The answer to this is "all the IDW TMNT stuff." James Roberts' Transformers books are worth checking out too.
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Even if I dont give a shit one way or the other about Transformers?
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Is there Horror film, Aliens, Predators, Terminator, etc comics?
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Alien vs Predator originated as a comic IIRC
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That said, most of them are pretty terrible.
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It did, back in 1989. There's like a million crossover comics with Predator and Alien with practically every major character you can think of.

Some other notable ones off the top of my head are the Wildstorm Nightmare on Elm Street comics, Army of Darkness which crossed over with Marvel Zombies, and a crossover called Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash which also had a sequel of its own.
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Army of Darkness has a couple decent comics, forgot about that.
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Snake5555555555 posted...

It did, back in 1989. There's like a million crossover comics with Predator and Alien with practically every major character you can think of.

Some other notable ones off the top of my head are the Wildstorm Nightmare on Elm Street comics, Army of Darkness which crossed over with Marvel Zombies, and a crossover called Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash which also had a sequel of its own.

Dont forget Superman and Batman vs Aliens and Predator!

Wait, no, definitely forget that. It was awful.
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Shoutouts to Stormwatch vs Alien which Warren Ellis just used as an excuse to kill off literally half the established cast and replace them with his original characters.
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As promised, I deliver unto you today the material for Spider-Man Week.

We're going to take a look at three fan-favorite stories from across the Spider-Man mythos, the first of which is simply a personal favorite of mine. "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut!", from 1982, features a clash between completely different characters in a way Marvel never really has duplicated before or since. Spider-Man takes on the Juggernaut in a very excellent old school David vs. Goliath tale penned by Roger Stern and drawn by John Romita, Jr. The art is of particular note - Romita's style influenced entire generations of comic book illustrators. The story is often acknowledged as one of Spider-Man's best, and the battle between Juggernaut and Spider-Man is consistently listed as one of the best fight scenes in comics. You can read it in Amazing Spider-Man #229-230.

The second story on our list is the six-issue Spider-Man: Blue mini-series from 2002. Written and illustrated by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale respectively, this is a tale from the team that created Batman: The Long Halloween, so you know you're dealing with a very strong creative unit. Spider-Man spends some time remembering a particularly painful moment in his past, and the results are very moving. Spider-Man: Blue is always ranked as a Top 10 Spider-Man tale, so check it out.

The last story we'll read is a Dan Slott-penned tale called "No One Dies", written in 2011. This, along with Superior Spider-Man, is seen as the pinnacle of one the longest runs in Spider-Man history. The only real knowledge you need to know going into the story is that J. Jonah Jameson's wife, Marla, was killed prior to the start of the story, and Spider-Man deals with the emotional fallout from this. From most of the lists and articles I've seen, this story tends to rank highly for recent Spider-Man stories, so I thought this might be a nice place for everyone to check out a sample of the last nearly ten years of Spider-books.

As always, if you are having trouble finding the comics listed for the week (although I think the various online services out there should have everything), hit me up on Discord and I will work with you to find a physical edition if necessary.

I'd like to hear how these stories affect your perception of Spider-Man as a character this week and I hope we have more great conversation about these stories. I look forward to seeing you on the other side next Tuesday, as we take on Superman week.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Even if I dont give a shit one way or the other about Transformers?

I don't give a shit about Transformers either, and his Transformers books are maybe my favourite grand scale superhero books this decade.
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If we are doing IDW books, we need Last Stand Of The Wreckers
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Downloaded it. Ill provably start today.
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The Long Halloween is a favourite of mine, so I'm interested to see that creative team on Spider-Man.

By comic experience with the character consists entirely of 4-5 issues in the last year after the Marvel Legacy event, which I thought were okay, but dropped after a Venom event that I wasn't interested in, so I'm excited to finally read good Spider-Man!
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I started Spidey comics with the Clone Saga and yet hes still by far my favorite hero

They really nailed it with his origin
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Finished Spiderman vs Juggernaut. I felt a little cheated by Juggernaut's defeat basically being an accident, but the method itself was reasonably clever.
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Juggernaut is proof that villains not in your typical rogues gallery can work just as well if not better. Love the early artwork, it really makes Juggernaut seem like some otherworldly demon. Madame Web was always a weird aspect of the Spider-Man mythos to me. The clairvoyance stuff never really clicked for me, but surprisingly it gels with Juggernaut well at least. Juggernaut destroying everything in his meeting with Black Tom Cassidy everything is pretty hilarious. I love just seeing a whole wrecked staircase in the background, and then he sinks right to the ocean floor like a boss. Now that's truly unstoppable!

The way he just keeps on barreling through the city is so much fun too. Spider-Man failing to rescue Madame Web is such a classic Spidey thing, along with his endless well of determination and ingeunity. The way he defeats Juggernaut shows brains are mightier than brawn. This story really is the perfect encapsulation of who Spider-Man and why does what he does. Also in the second part, Juggernaut coming out of the fire after surviving the tanker explosion is such amazing storytelling through artwork.
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Didn't get a chance to sit down and read Batman week until last night, but I wanted to give my thoughts briefly.

Slayride was a nice one-off. I really enjoyed how the Joker was both threatening and yet darkly funny. Year One was definitely my favorite. The focus on Gordon was cool, alongside Batman making a name for himself. Trinity was fun for the team up with the three heroes, I enjoyed their interactions the most.

I don't know if I'll ever be one for going in depth with the discussions, but I wanted to say thanks Scarlet for running this. As someone with no real comics experience but an interest, this is a perfect way for me to easily jump into things in a casual, friendly setting. I appreciate you taking the time to organize and present everything.

1) Would you prefer more or less material per packet than the eight issue amount from this first week?
The amount of reading was pretty good for me. Enough to give some variety, but not overwhelming for one week.

2) Were there any characters, writers, or artists from whom you'd like to see more material in future weeks?
I would love to see more from Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

3) Overall, did you enjoy the material this week?
Very much so.

4) Having experienced this first week, is there any change I could make to enhance your reading experience for the better?
I think the format is good.
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I absolutely love how the Juggernaut is inserted into the world of Spider-Man by relative happenstance. This is a story motivated by the X-Men universe; Spider-Man's lack of preparedness at dealing wiht such a massive behemoth threat is so fantastic. For me, I've always wanted to see a story where Batman, for example, is utterly manhandled by Sinestro. The mismatch of characters who are no longer staying in their own line can create some fantastic moments, and the little moments, the responses Spider-Man has to simply being forced to be in the presence of the Juggernaut, are always really, really welcome.

I think this story defines early 80s comics extremely well. It definitely shows why Marvel was outselling DC at the time - you have such a deep, mixed universe with all of this potential for exciting storytelling. It's also good booking (to borrow a wrestling term). Every once and a while, you need Undertaker to fight Jeff Hardy because fans love Jeff Hardy and you need to throw him the prestige. It's a really great way of elevating Spider-Man while maintaining the underdog mentality that made him such a fan-favorite to begin with.

I'm sure I'll have more to say on this story later, but just the simple presence of the Juggernaut in Spider-Man really plays out in an inspiring way.
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Read the Spiderman vs Insect Guys one

Jameson's wife dying was sad, but Spiderman's ultimate defeat of Smythe was kind of lame. He just punches the guy. The guy with cybernetic enhancements apparently goes down with one punch, okay.

I did enjoy the scientist drawing the wrong conclusion about Spiderman and Peter Parker, though.
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I'm curious if people will prefer DC of the era (Year One) or Marvel of the era (Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut). Let me know!
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Read the Spider-Man vs Juggernaut story. I've read it before so this was a re-read. It was... okay. I like Madam Web in her limited use (From memory I think she was in two issues before this and then didn't show up again for a couple of decades) but this story seemed like an excuse to get rid of her through a convinent amnesia storyline. It seems like Mavel was very against anyone knowing secret identities in this era that they couldn't keep her around, even though she was a good confidant / ally for Peter.

I also didn't like how helpless Spider-Man seems in trying to contact the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. And how convenient it was that all of those groupers were unavailable so Spider-Man had to find a way to deal with it himself! I'd almost just rather they left those out and just had Spider-Man overcome his doubts naturally as opposed to being forced to.

This is also the era of really bad supporting characters. Glory Grant, Lance Bannon... I do like happy Betty before the upcoming issues with Ned.

The banter, the art, and the actual battle themselves are fine. Maybe even better than fine. I just know this isn't a story I have ever thought of, or ever will think of, when I think of the best of Spider-Man stories.
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Also for those who found a file to download, I am seeing a similar issue with Blue that we had with Year One last week. It's weird though - it puts the third page as the final page but every other page swipes properly.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

I also didn't like how helpless Spider-Man seems in trying to contact the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. And how convenient it was that all of those groupers were unavailable so Spider-Man had to find a way to deal with it himself!

I think this is one of the best aspects of the story, honestly.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Also for those who found a file to download, I am seeing a similar issue with Blue that we had with Year One last week. It's weird though - it puts the third page as the final page but every other page swipes properly.

Okay, so the third page of every issue is a double page spread, so something is happening with the dimensions possibly on your phone? It's the only answer I can come up with.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

I also didn't like how helpless Spider-Man seems in trying to contact the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. And how convenient it was that all of those groupers were unavailable so Spider-Man had to find a way to deal with it himself!

I think this is one of the best aspects of the story, honestly.

I see Peter as the guy who steps up because he has to. Great power, great responsibility.

By trying to pass the buck to three other groups first it seems like he is being forced to step up.
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It's more of "I am clearly not in the weight class to deal with it. This is me versus the Hulk."
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I guess that's fair.

Maybe i could've accepted him calling the x- men since they have the experience fighting him.

It was just trying all three teams felt like overkill to me.

Finished Blue and i actually teared up. All six issues were phenomenal. Will have more to say later.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

I also didn't like how helpless Spider-Man seems in trying to contact the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. And how convenient it was that all of those groupers were unavailable so Spider-Man had to find a way to deal with it himself!

I think this is one of the best aspects of the story, honestly.

I see Peter as the guy who steps up because he has to. Great power, great responsibility.

By trying to pass the buck to three other groups first it seems like he is being forced to step up.

That's what "because he has to" means
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'Because he has to' there means 'because it's the right thing to do'.

Not 'because he has to' because 'no one else is around right now, how inconvenient for me'.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Finished Blue and i actually teared up. All six issues were phenomenal. Will have more to say later.

Looking forward to it. It's one of the great emotional stories in Spider-Man lore. I'll be rereading it tomorrow.
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Just finished Blue. Really weird artwork, but I enjoyed it. I guess if I had a criticism, the book does a good job of establishing MJ's personality and draw, but it puts less emphasis on Gwen, and I don't know how intentional that is?

I know of Gwen Stacey's death, but I don't really know any details beyond that she falls off of a bridge and that Marvel edited out the noise of her neck snapping.
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I think Peter puts Gwen on a pedestal, and that's part of why Gwen always comes off as having no personality. She's not particularly special in any way. She is a very weak character in general and it was probably best to give her some meaning in comics by making her this girl Peter loved who died in the crossfire of his nighttime career antics. To me, this story does a great job of making her a little bit of that untouchable pristine memory, and that can be dangerous to a mind.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I think Peter puts Gwen on a pedestal, and that's part of why Gwen always comes off as having no personality. She's not particularly special in any way. She is a very weak character in general and it was probably best to give her some meaning in comics by making her this girl Peter loved who died in the crossfire of his nighttime career antics. To me, this story does a great job of making her a little bit of that untouchable pristine memory, and that can be dangerous to a mind.

Thats a good interpretation, thank you.
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In fact, in later years, I think allowing Gwen to return in various ways (whether cloning or through Spider-Gwen) actually has a negative effect of her legacy for readers. It's like when you bring in Thomas Wayne as Batman in a lot of ways.
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Didn't there used to be a joke among comic fans that only three characters ever stayed dead, and the only one who's still dead now in Uncle Ben?
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It used to be Bucky, Barry and Ben.

Now it's Ben.
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Just wait until they drop Spider-Ben on us next month.
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Finished the Juggernaut story.

It was good fun! I do think the actual resolution of the fight was a bit of a cop-out, but it served its purpose well of showing Spider-Man's resilience. In particular, I thought Spidey hanging on towards the end as Juggernaut tries to beat him to death was pretty striking. At that point his only goal is to slow Juggernaut down, and I thought it was interesting that Peter was prepared to most likely sacrifice himself until Jugg falls in the concrete.

Also, to speak briefly on the art, my only experience with John Romita Jr. was with his New 52 Superman run with Johns, which I was not a huge fan of. I guess maybe his style just didn't age well for whatever reason, because I the art is very dynamic and cinematic here. There's a ton of visually sweet moments in this fight. I'm glad you pointed it out because I probably wouldn't have paid as much attention otherwise.
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Snake5555555555 posted...

Just wait until they drop Spider-Ben on us next month.

They dropped Spider Ben on us LAST month
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Aww man am I too late to join? I'm reading stuff all the time. I'm a little bit concerned that I won't have access to most of the stories that you want to cover though.

I'm guessing this will just be DC and Marvel?
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There will be other companies after the first month.
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I hope people are reading still! We're about halfway through the week.
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Eddv posted...

Snake5555555555 posted...

Just wait until they drop Spider-Ben on us next month.

They dropped Spider Ben on us LAST month

Oh wait damn, I forgot all about that!
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Is Spider-Ben a joke from another universe or something?
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There's a couple Spider-Bens. Spider-Verse did one a few years ago.
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Have they ever done Spider-Jonah?
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