Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic - August 2018 Edition: Mecha'thun Cometh.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wow, Pogo-Hopper sure is bullshit.
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So after being high rolled by like zoo 3 games in s row it was finally my turn.

Im almost dead and need to go all out. I peep unstable element into espionage etc. I do stuff to live. My first draw, Tirion. He would tarim (from stone hill) the following turn but I countered with auctioneer one mana kings etc. he conceded after that.
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I was really hoping to hit rank 5 tonight but the high rolls are not in my favour. I keep putting myself in a situation where I need to win three to get in, only to win two and lose the third, forcing me to start the process all over. Getting matched up against the rank 5 floor meme decks is messing with me.
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I had a surprisingly hard time hitting rank 5 this season. Usually after a new set comes out, just play an aggro deck and go face. Wasn't working. Tried odd rogue, tried zoo, maybe 40% winrate with both. The Shudderwock Shaman deck that got me to legend recently wasn't doing great either, even with a few new cards (stealth squirrel and Electra Stormsurge).

Decks that did seem to be winning more than losing for me were Even Miracle Spell Damage Rogue (basically unmodified; I added two of that card that gives +1 attack to weapons, and then immediately dropped down to 1 of). This was maybe 60% winrate for me.

And Even Shaman with 2x Arcane Dynamo and 2x Menacing Nimbus which had maybe an 80% winrate to rank 5 for me. Arcane Dynamo has a 60% chance to get you Bloodlust in Even Shaman, and if Bloodlust isn't an option, you will almost certainly have the option of the legendary spell (transform all your minions into legendaries). Basically a 90% chance to get cards that are playable in normal shaman decks that even shaman desperately wants.
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davidponte posted...

Wow, Pogo-Hopper sure is bullshit.

I was expecting Pogo to be some gimmicky stuff that might have a deck to work around it. Instead, I played a game where Kingsbane rogue empties her deck and then fills it with Pogo Hoppers repeatedly. Rather than Kingsbane being the focal point, it was just the survival mechanic until overloading the board with all the bunnies.

That said, just playing a straight Pogo deck, I was able to get a board that had 13/13 through 21/21 on board. I was giggling at the time, but I hope this doesn't become the norm from my opponents.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Its an embarrassment that combo disruption isnt in this set. Blizzard is laughably bad at game design.

Demonic Project is a card
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UltimaterializerX posted...

VeryInsane posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Its an embarrassment that combo disruption isnt in this set. Blizzard is laughably bad at game design.

Demonic Project is a card

In one class, and that card is ass. Dirty Rat not being moved to Classic is absolutely the dumbest thing Ive seen in this game and Ive played it off and on since beta.

Think of the idiocy from Blizzard in not immediately killing 1 mana Shudderwocks.

Shudderwock is a bad deck in the current meta. Like...I piloted it to legend before, but haven't been winning much with it against boomsday decks.

Also, they buffed Azalina so that it now counters Shudderwock; I don't think many people will run Azalina just to beat Shudderwock, cause I don't think Wock will be that popular. But it's an option.
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VeryInsane posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Its an embarrassment that combo disruption isnt in this set. Blizzard is laughably bad at game design.

Demonic Project is a card

Great. Guess I'll just play warlock from now on.

I'm not quite willing to believe that combo disruption is so vital that it needs to be accessible, but I've seen some bizarre combos already, and I never fail to be extremely ticked when a game that seems like it's in hand the whole time suddenly ends with my opponent killing me out of the blue. I guess it won't be out of the blue once I've seen the combo enough times to anticipate it, but that won't necessarily help me stop it.
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I actually run one copy of Demonic Project in the deck I'm playing, just because I'm trying to screw up a Mecha'thun deck at the last moment. Haven't come across one yet, but I did turn a Malygos Rogue deck into a Doomguard Rogue deck.
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Camden posted...

I actually run one copy of Demonic Project in the deck I'm playing, just because I'm trying to screw up a Mecha'thun deck at the last moment

And that is why i run 2x wisp and 2x moonfire in the mecha'thun deck im working on.

Even from 5 cards in hand i can play the other 4 and have a clear board to win with. And im only 33% likely to lose to demonic project.
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Dirty Rat is half the reason I play wild, especially now that Chameleos can spy for him. I see you hidin' back there, wock

*plays Mukla in Brawl*
*opponent gives bananas to party crashers*
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Yeah, if there's one card I wish they moved to Classic, it has to be Dirty Rat. So many of these Combo decks are stupid and if you're playing Control, the entire game is you waiting for them to draw their deck and beat you.
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Lost another win and in. Guess it isn't meant to be when your Zoo opponent plays Keleseth on two, then the "summon a copy of this minion" on three and four.
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It feels like Blizzard is trying to force an aggro > combo > control > aggro meta. Those are technically healthy for the game but it will never feel good to run into your unfavored matchup, especially with so little counterplay in Standard right now.
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Ugh, this brawl. I keep getting opponents leaving when were nearing the end
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Ehh, see thing is, I would classify Shudderwock Shaman as more of a control deck anyway. (Double volcano, double lightning storm, Healing Rain, hagatha, sometimes Primordial Drake, lots of taunts; somewhere around 25 out of 30 of the cards in the deck are basically control Shaman cards).

Yeah, it has a way to kill you, but fundamentally that's not so different from, say, old Miracle Rogue having a Malygos or Leeroy combo, or old control mage playing Alextraza and spells that could be pointed at face.

Maybe they just want to move things in a direction where control decks actually end games. Like...magic the Gathering did something similar to this, where they used to print cards like Stasis:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=202472

And now they print cards like Brine Elemental (which could combo to be turned face up every turn):

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=442036

Both these decks lock your opponent down, leave them stuck with no mana, but the Brine Elemental Deck also has a 5/5 or two, and will probably kill you shortly after locking you down.

Maybe that's their goal, give control decks tools to end games. (Which is...a reasonable design choice).
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I see where you're coming from. I agree there's certainly a range of aggressive and controlling combo strategies. But I think there's a fundamental difference in strategy. Some decks blur the lines, and yeah I think Shudderwock has changed enough that it can do a reasonable approximation of a midrange or control deck, but it's not the goal. The ideal strategy for the deck is still to draw everything on time and slam Wock on turn 9.

I guess how I think of combo decks is that they don't actually care about what the opponent does. They're forced to pretend to care about the board because that's where the things trying to kill them live, but typically aren't effecient at it because they're mainly trying to stall. Whereas a Control deck does care about the board because they want to use that later. Combo decks end up playing inefficient stall and draw cards and struggle with aggro because of it, but there's some overlap between the two archetypes when stuff is too efficient to pass up.
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I'm switching to Zoo. Control is essentially impossible to climb with right now unless you're willing to sit through 15 minutes of your opponent slowly drawing through their whole deck and playing a Mecha'Thun, Pogo-Hoppers, or Topsy-Turvy every 3 games, and knowing there's nothing you can do to stop it.
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Easy 3-0 to rank 5 with Zoo.

How's your dumb Combo deck doing now, Blizzard?
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The only combo I need is Soul Infusion + Doubling Imp (or maybe saronite)
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GANON1025 posted...

The only combo I need is Soul Infusion + Doubling Imp (or maybe saronite)

Aww yeaah
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Now that I'm rank 5, I've been screwing around playing Whizbang every game. So far perfectly 50-50 after about..12-18 games? (Started out rank 5 2 stars, ended rank 5 2 stars, haven't hit the rank floor yet). Decks are generally ok, except for mech warrior, god that deck is awful.

UltimaterializerX posted...

This is why I dont play high RNG decks.

He says after posting a deck with Academic Espionage and Fal'dorei Strider >_> <_<
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The game is a no fun zone right now. Every game I queue into either some otk combo deck or a super aggressive aggro deck. The only other real deck I see now is an occasional death rattle rogue (which can like almost kill you from hand with the weapon).
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War doesn't require skill
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This is actually like the least rng base meta weve had. Which is part of the problem ironically. Right now decks are extremely consistent in what they do and lack of counter play and failure rates beyond human error makes the game unenjoyable. Im not saying more rng would make it better, but its not the problem in this case.

The rng is like did you queue into a good matchup?
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Oh I really like the new Tempo Shudderwock deck
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Tempted to Whizbang myself from 25 to a decent rank just to prove skill matters

Although that would require me to learn what decks Whizbang can actually give me

ShatteredElysium posted...

Tempted to Whizbang myself from 25 to a decent rank just to prove skill matters

Although that would require me to learn what decks Whizbang can actually give me

All the current non-classic deck recipes. Most are pretty fun.
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Lmfao so I saw my pal bradfordlee steaming elder scrolls legends again (something he hasnt done in a long time) and its like if hes steaming it again from time to time I can give it another shot.

Its wortj noting that I have not played since closed beta. Like three entire sets launched since I stopped playing and I have none of the new cards,

So obviously I hop right back into ladder with an old semi meme deck I made shortly before I quit. Its also worth noting that several of the cards in the deck were nerfed.

I played five games and won four. The one I lost I drew pretty poorly and my opponent just had a bunch of cards that were just at a huge power level. Out of the games I won I didnt get the full otk out but I came close.

It was weird. One dude was playing a yellow/red deck (usually an aggressive token style to midrange tempo deck) an archetype that I pushed into the games meta when control was at its peak. And its like he was using some cards I havent seen and Im like convinced my list with the old cards is just better.
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Ulti you are doing it again.

Rng affects the game.
Skill affects the game.

Rng and skill both affect the game.

.

Nobody but you is surprise by this.

Nobody but you thinks hearthstone is a trash game.

Or at least other people who think hearthstone is a trash game are smart enough to not be regulars in the hearthstone topic.

The rest of us are trying to play the game and have fun.

Watching you broken record insult the game we like is not enjoyable.

I have tried to compartmentalize these points as to be easily understood.
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