Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 185: Doubly Negative

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't see any reason why we would be petrified

Oh sorry I misspoke
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DidpPr2UwAA7Nwu?format=jpg&name=medium

New TIME cover is NSFL
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/18/facebook-infowars-holocaust-deniers-zuckerberg-730772

Zuckerberg doesnt think Holocaust denial is necessarily born from hate

Whoo boy
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/18/facebook-infowars-holocaust-deniers-zuckerberg-730772

Zuckerberg doesnt think Holocaust denial is necessarily born from hate

Whoo boy

This should squash any notion of him running for office as a Democrat, at least?

wtf regardless though
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Unless you end or begin that statement with "before the sixties" then yikes.
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Zuckerberg, who is Jewish, said even Holocaust deniers have a place on the platform as long as they genuinely believe the content they share.

I find that deeply offensive, he said. But at the end of the day, I dont believe that our platform should take that down because I think there are things that different people get wrong. I dont think that theyre intentionally getting it wrong.

This is so sad its almost funny
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Wow like leave it to Zuckerberg to pick the worst option: lets censor things but not the hate speech.
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019938748413435910

ah ok. guess i imagined all those instances when trump denied there was russian meddling.
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remember when we were saying "trump is like if ulti became president"?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019932691339399168

I told you so!

literally doing the "called it. vindicated" etc. thing now.
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Did he ever deny Russian meddling or just collusion? I haven't been keeping careful track.
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He's gone back and forth on meddling

Always "NO COLLUSION!" though
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LordoftheMorons posted...

He's gone back and forth on meddling

yeah, this is what i remember happening.

perhaps he deliberately takes both sides on 95% of the issues so that when someone confronts him with one side undeniably being total bullshit, he can go "i ALWAYS said this side was right! just look at these clips!" that's the closest he'll get to ACTUALLY playing 4D chess, i guess.
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Am I the only one on the left or right who doesn't really care about this whole "meddling" thing, considering we have been interfering in foreign elections (and vice versa) regularly for 50+ years?
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He never specifically denied it COULD be Russia

But he almost always made sure to add that it could be ANYONE doing the meddling and theres no way we could possibly know
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Am I the only one on the left or right who doesn't really care about this whole "meddling" thing, considering we have been interfering in foreign elections (and vice versa) regularly for 50+ years?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZXsYuJIGTg" data-time="

When did Republicans start hating Democrats so much that they became obsessed with hating America too?
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Inviso posted...

When did Republicans start hating Democrats so much that they became obsessed with hating America too?

I don't feel this way to spite the Dems. I've seen just as many Republicans condemn it.

It just seems hypocritical to get upset about something our government does constantly and silly to get upset about something that has been happening for decades.
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Jakyl25 posted...

He never specifically denied it COULD be Russia

not sure about this claim.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Inviso posted...

When did Republicans start hating Democrats so much that they became obsessed with hating America too?

I don't feel this way to spite the Dems. I've seen just as many Republicans condemn it.

It just seems hypocritical to get upset about something our government does constantly and silly to get upset about something that has been happening for decades.

It was bad when our government did it and probably led to a lot of the instability overseas (and animosity overseas towards America.)

But it's also really bad that Republicans are just okay with this now, and you're justifying it as karma?
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Inviso posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Inviso posted...

When did Republicans start hating Democrats so much that they became obsessed with hating America too?

I don't feel this way to spite the Dems. I've seen just as many Republicans condemn it.

It just seems hypocritical to get upset about something our government does constantly and silly to get upset about something that has been happening for decades.

It was bad when our government did it and probably led to a lot of the instability overseas (and animosity overseas towards America.)

But it's also really bad that Republicans are just okay with this now, and you're justifying it as karma?

I'm saying it's inconsequential gamesmanship. Russia wasn't thinking they could literally sway an election. They were just waving their dicks around.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Inviso posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Inviso posted...

When did Republicans start hating Democrats so much that they became obsessed with hating America too?

I don't feel this way to spite the Dems. I've seen just as many Republicans condemn it.

It just seems hypocritical to get upset about something our government does constantly and silly to get upset about something that has been happening for decades.

It was bad when our government did it and probably led to a lot of the instability overseas (and animosity overseas towards America.)

But it's also really bad that Republicans are just okay with this now, and you're justifying it as karma?

I'm saying it's inconsequential gamesmanship. Russia wasn't thinking they could literally sway an election. They were just waving their dicks around.

Vehemently disagree with this, they put a lot of time, effort, and resources into doing this. They didn't do this for dick-waving sake, they truly hated Clinton and wanted Trump in power. Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Vehemently disagree with this, they put a lot of time, effort, and resources into doing this. They didn't do this for dick-waving sake, they truly hated Clinton and wanted Trump in power. Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.

They do this every election
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Am I the only one on the left or right who doesn't really care about this whole "meddling" thing, considering we have been interfering in foreign elections (and vice versa) regularly for 50+ years?

Its mostly frightening how effective they were.

Once you understand how they operate and see them in action and how they manipulate real people, its fucking insane.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Vehemently disagree with this, they put a lot of time, effort, and resources into doing this. They didn't do this for dick-waving sake, they truly hated Clinton and wanted Trump in power. Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.

They do this every election

How did they do it effectively before social media?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Vehemently disagree with this, they put a lot of time, effort, and resources into doing this. They didn't do this for dick-waving sake, they truly hated Clinton and wanted Trump in power. Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.

They do this every election

How did they do it effectively before social media?

They dropped pamphlets over the midwest.
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Like, they were probably more successful than they thought they would be, but even if Clinton had won she would have been deeply politically injured compared to the scenario where the Russians hadn't meddled (which is still a win for Putin).

And yes, you should care. Putin's goal is to divide and weaken the west in order to make his fucked up mafia state relatively more powerful. As you're a westerner (and presumably believe that western values are much better for the world than Putin's values?) that's a bad thing.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.

I mean, they did. The proof is pretty conclusive in my mind that they did collude with the campaign, and that Trump knew. Theres a preponderance of evidence.

The information we are still waiting on is whether theres enough evidence from a legal perspective to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump knew.
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Like, Ill freely admit, I was amongst the liberals who laughed in 2012 when Romney said Russia was still our biggest global threat.

Since then, Ive been humbled, and now understand that Romney was correct.
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Republicans like Seph would rather be subservient to Russia than support America. Plus Russia's culture is all about hatred of liberal ideals, so...yeah.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Vehemently disagree with this, they put a lot of time, effort, and resources into doing this. They didn't do this for dick-waving sake, they truly hated Clinton and wanted Trump in power. Whether they actively colluded with his campaign to do so is the information we're still waiting on.

They do this every election

How did they do it effectively before social media?

Disinformation campaigns using traditional media. Sabotage. Etc.

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

Do you realize how many people, on all sides, believe 2016 Russian disinformation even still today?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Do you realize how many people, on all sides, believe 2016 Russian disinformation even still today?

(Including our President BTW)
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

It's delusional to think that the DNC hack and wikileaks shit (even ignoring all of the other stuff) might have swung the election by an entire 0.7%?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

It's delusional to think that the DNC hack and wikileaks shit (even ignoring all of the other stuff) might have swung the election by an entire 0.7%?

Trump was out there on TV TELLING people how great WikiLeaks was and to look up their stuff
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

It's delusional to think that the DNC hack and wikileaks shit (even ignoring all of the other stuff) might have swung the election by an entire 0.7%?

The election could have gone the other way with a mere 80,000 votes.
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Also look at the recent revelations about Russias donations to fund the NRA
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

It's delusional to think that the DNC hack and wikileaks shit (even ignoring all of the other stuff) might have swung the election by an entire 0.7%?

Not anymore than the birther movement, which was also predicated on disinformation.
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The point is that you can't blame information for an election loss. There is false information from millions of sources floating around. You can't seriously blame one source for an entire presidential loss.

The only thing that really is concerning is hacking voting machines, which has been proven to be negligible.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

They were about as ineffective as the social media and hacking stuff is now. If you truly think Russia changed the 2016 results then you are both delusional and ill informed.

It's delusional to think that the DNC hack and wikileaks shit (even ignoring all of the other stuff) might have swung the election by an entire 0.7%?

Not anymore than the birther movement, which was also predicated on disinformation.

Hillary was a worse candidate than Obama though

I dont think anyones saying that Russias disinformation efforts are the ONLY reason Trump won. If he was running against Obama going for a third term it wouldnt have been enough.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The point is that you can't blame information for an election loss. There is false information from millions of sources floating around. You can't seriously blame one source for an entire presidential loss.

Why do you think so many establishment Republicans talk like theyre scared shitless of it?
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Honestly knowing you, Seph, Im surprised you arent advocating boots on the ground in Russia!
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The point is that you can't blame information for an election loss. There is false information from millions of sources floating around. You can't seriously blame one source for an entire presidential loss.

The only thing that really is concerning is hacking voting machines, which has been proven to be negligible.

I am in total agreement that Russian meddling was not the sole factor responsible for Hillary's loss.

Would you agree, however, that it was a contributing factor? One of many that helped lead to a Trump victory?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Honestly knowing you, Seph, Im surprised you arent advocating boots on the ground in Russia!

This is the first time I've been genuinely surprised in one of Seph's opinions. I get the impression he's being genuine here and not trolling, and it is a little disappointing if that's the case.
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/19/dems-erupt-into-usa-chant-on-house-floor-after-hoyer-gives-fiery-anti-putin-speech.html

Look at all those Republicans sitting during a "USA" chant. Why do they hate the troops so much?
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Suprak the Stud posted...

This is the first time I've been genuinely surprised in one of Seph's opinions.

Really?
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Like, I disagree with his opinions all the time. But there is a consistent logic to his opinions. He's basically a Bush neocon. He isn't hard to predict.

I'm actually surprised he's totally ok with this.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Like, I disagree with his opinions all the time. But there is a consistent logic to his opinions. He's basically a Bush neocon. He isn't hard to predict.

I'm actually surprised he's totally ok with this.

I think you could make that argument pre-2016. But since then it hasn't held up.
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Does anyone here just not care that the United States regularly does the same shit to Russia? This has been going on in every election since the Cold War.
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The US government has done a lot of things to other countries that I'd hope they wouldn't let other countries do to us. Maybe we shouldn't be doing those things either, but that's a different argument entirely.
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I think youre on to something. Take out that maybe though and then I think were getting somewhere.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Does anyone here just not care that the United States regularly does the same shit to Russia? This has been going on in every election since the Cold War.

Putin rigs his own elections anyway
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