Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 185: Doubly Negative

(+) Yeah! (+)

I will say that after North Korea, I can only imagine Trump will be in Iran within a year to give Rohani a very nice handshake and proclaim no one ever needs to worry about Iran again.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics/cohen-trump-audio-recordings/index.html

A dirty dozen tapes
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https://twitter.com/paparoach/status/1021462603426484224?s=21
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I prefer Getting Away With Murder, personally.
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From a Trump rally today
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1021477602882723840?s=21

Did not hear what prompted this, but Trump, in the middle of listing various made in America products, said, "Ten years ago I was perfect. Now, I don't know."

*single tear is shed*
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/paparoach/status/1021462603426484224?s=21

It took me a second to realize who made this tweet. I'm glad they have some modicum of self-awareness.
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1021480134002593793?s=21

Trump on U.S. history: "People don't know too much about McKinley."

Maybe we could ask him. Is he still alive?
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Hey, don't mock! That might be his most correct take on the American people of his presidency!
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McKinley sucks
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https://twitter.com/spettypi/status/1021538159988015104?s=21

Lmao
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12 billion
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ahahahahaahhahaa but Ivanka Trump brand is closing so that's something
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Apparently Trump has just said he's open to making a new deal with Iran. Because of course.
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Trump is also claiming that Russia is intending to meddle with the midterms to help the Democrats. I wonder who Vlado believes in that statement?
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kevwaffles posted...

Apparently Trump has just said he's open to making a new deal with Iran. Because of course.

Glad we'll soon be able to replace our former substantive deal with robust monitoring with a handshake deal with the primary purpose of generating good headlines for a fucking moron...!
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Espeon posted...

Trump is also claiming that Russia is intending to meddle with the midterms to help the Democrats. I wonder who Vlado believes in that statement?

Let's not leave out the part where he says "no president has been tougher on Russia than me". Surely nobody believes this right? ...right?

Link: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021784726217142273
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pyresword posted...

Surely nobody believes this right? ...right?

I'd be willing to be approximately 30% of the country believes it.
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https://twitter.com/kath_krueger/status/1021729455633522688?s=21

This conservative goes to an Ocasio-Cortez rally thing is HILARIOUS

These ideas that a government can provide for its citizens who are struggling is so tempting! But DANGEROUS
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Governments are only supposed to hurt black and brown kids! Not help them, goodness gracious! Next thing you know, they might be healthy and get jobs!
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Espeon posted...

Trump is also claiming that Russia is intending to meddle with the midterms to help the Democrats. I wonder who Vlado believes in that statement?

Ill ask him
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kevwaffles posted...

Apparently Trump has just said he's open to making a new deal with Iran. Because of course.

Suprak the Stud posted...

I will say that after North Korea, I can only imagine Trump will be in Iran within a year to give Rohani a very nice handshake and proclaim no one ever needs to worry about Iran again.

Trump is like the anti-Teddy Roosevelt. Speak VERY LOUDLY but forget about the stick all together because hand shakes are cool and better.
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Lots of people are saying, lots of people, good people, that you have to carry a stick. I tell them, I can speak so loudly I don't need to carry a stick. I don't need to. I don't need to carry a stick. And it's a big stick. The biggest stick. But I don't need to carry it.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Espeon posted...

Trump is also claiming that Russia is intending to meddle with the midterms to help the Democrats. I wonder who Vlado believes in that statement?

Ill ask him

Vlado posted...

Sounds like Trump shitposting on twitter to me.

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/kath_krueger/status/1021729455633522688?s=21

This conservative goes to an Ocasio-Cortez rally thing is HILARIOUS

These ideas that a government can provide for its citizens who are struggling is so tempting! But DANGEROUS

the thing i love most about this is that she puts "living wage" in quotation marks. living wage is a real thing, dumbass. it's not a philosophical concept.
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To change the subject a bit I've been annoyed about whataboutism lately. The word has been thrown around a lot since Trump started his campaign because people keep using it to defend him.

The thing about whataboutism is that it's not at all a bad thing to do sometimes, as far as I can see. It exposes double standards and agendas. Like are you really attacking Trump because you care about issue X, or are you just doing it because you want to attack Trump? And if so, what about when Bill Clinton or Obama did something similar - did you attack them then? And then the person admits their double standard or (more likely) explains how the two issues are different, clarifying why he thinks what Trump did is bad but what Obama did is fine. But that's good - clarifying your exact stance is great and part of why we have arguments.

I don't think it's inherently a bad thing, but obviously the danger is that the topic of conversation shifts away from the person currently being accused and obviously you can draw false equivalencies. But that can be avoided if you do it honestly.

People are up in arms to accuse people of whataboutism at the moment, sometimes with merit, but it's not absolutely wrong imo. It's not inherently a deflecting tactic, it exposes dishonesty or maybe subconscious double standards people have. The problem is it's being used as one, used dishonestly. But that doesn't mean the word should just be thrown around every time like it's the worst thing. I keep seeing people accuse each other of whataboutism and it's like...well yeah, they're trying to expose your double standard or to see if you have one.

Idk, am I wrong? It's such a popular word at the moment.
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I think what youre Talking about is only really relevant when the whatabout is being asked in good faith (the person really doesnt see a meaningful difference themselves). With Trump (and Russian propaganda) its always just a tool to deflect.
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Well yeah, that's what I said

XIII_rocks posted...

It's not inherently a deflecting tactic, it exposes dishonesty or maybe subconscious double standards people have. The problem is it's being used as one, used dishonestly.

I think it's valid to accuse people of it sometimes but that it's now being thrown around, and that's damaging because I see it as being fairly useful
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XIII_rocks posted...

Idk, am I wrong?

Eh, I disagree with you, but I don't know if I'd say you're wrong, per se. Or, I guess technically I would, but I mean I understood what you're trying to say here.

I think it is inherently a deflecting tactic. It changes the focus of the topic to either the individual (are they being hypocritical/applying double standards) or a third party (explaining the difference between the two cases.)

I think you're trying to argue there are cases where that change in focus is valuable. Maybe that's so (I'm not trying to be pretentious here I just feel like you quickly enter very subjective territory here which just further complicates things) but ultimately you're still changing the focus which is a deflection. I mean, it's an emotionally appealing rhetorical device and I'm sure I've used it here myself with varying levels of seriousness behind it but I don't think that changes what it is.

While I think it can in some limited instances lead to a clarification of position (if someone is made to explain why the two cases are different) I don't think that "redeems" the tactic, so-to-speak. You could get that outcome by more sound means.
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What bothers me more than whataboutism is "could you imagine if ____ did that same thing?" Which is similar I guess. It's just such a pointless argument 90% of the time. It doesnt prove anything, unless there's actually a similar case to point at as evidence. When it's pure speculation, there is absolutely no point and all it does is muddy the discussion
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I have found some of the "could imagine if Obama did Xs" to be a helpful reminder that the shit Obama got bogged down in was downright petty compared to the very real shit Trump is into. Not helpful but a reminder that you're not crazy and everything that is happening IS a big deal and the Republicans who are in power are massive hypocrites is worth remembering.
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In general though you and 13 are absolutely right though. This is the sort if argument humans find fascinating and it instantly deflects from reality.
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What do people have so viscerally against SJWs? They seem easy enough to ignore.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

What do people have so viscerally against SJWs? They seem easy enough to ignore.

SJW derangement syndrome is real
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1022097879253635072?s=21

What kind of a lawyer would tape a client? So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before? Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things? I hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped - can this be so? Too bad!

I continue to marvel at his obtuse use of parentheticals
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even he is aware that he can't use big words to some of his supporters
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also

1984

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Trump, yesterday

Just remember, what youre seeing and what youre reading is not whats happening.

:thinking:
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His syntax just inherently pisses me off.
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https://twitter.com/dylanmatt/status/1021914089914880000?s=21

Brexit is so weird to follow from afar. Its like watching a guy slowly demolishing his own house with a sledgehammer because he lost a Twitter poll

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People are seriously so mad at the left they tolerate this clown in the White House. I have no words.
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https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/status/1021853247080882177?s=19
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1022097879253635072?s=21

What kind of a lawyer would tape a client? So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before? Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things? I hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped - can this be so? Too bad!

I continue to marvel at his obtuse use of parentheticals

I like the use of "presumably", personally. He's not even sure what material was cut, but by god is he going to insist it must have been something that would make him look good
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https://twitter.com/pattymo/status/1022130303798861824
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https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1022154400972894208

BREAKING: Federal judge gives go-ahead to lawsuit alleging that @realDonaldTrump is violating the Constitution b/c he still does business with foreign govts. Could open a window into secretive Trump Org.'s books and customers. https://t.co/j7ZdxJT4Yd

This could go up the ladder. All the more reason that kavanaugh shouldn't go near the supreme court.
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https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1022180518417379328?s=21

BREAKING: Pompeo says U.S. will never recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea bloom.bg/2NJDPeB

Trump on Twitter tomorrow: Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia.
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Great analogy for brexit:

https://twitter.com/dylanmatt/status/1021914089914880000?s=21
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Uhhh I beat you to it
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You know guys, I've been thinking about it and Brexit is so weird to follow from afar. Its like watching a guy slowly demolishing his own house with a sledgehammer because he lost a Twitter poll
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Oh whoops
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You know guys, I've been thinking about it and Brexit is so weird to follow from afar. Its like watching a guy slowly demolishing his own house with a sledgehammer because he lost a Twitter poll
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Man I swear if a guy lost a twitter poll and destroyed his own house with a sledgehammer, it would really remind me of Brexit
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