Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 185: Doubly Negative

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Suprak the Stud
07/19/18 11:30:47 PM
#51:


First off Russia doesn't have elections it has "elections". Trump's political adversaries don't just wind up dead. There's nothing to rig in Russia because that's already been taken care of.

Russia is a tyrannical state run by a thug who basically is pillaging the country for the benefit of himself and some Russian mobsters. Russia has annexed territory in two sovereign countries just within recent memory, and they are violently oppressive to dissidents. "BUT MAH BOTH SIDES GUYS" is literal Russian propaganda and you can drop it because for all of our faults, we aren't Russia.

Furthermore, they're our adversaries and are trying to undermine western influence, democracy, and all those things Republicans purport to care about. Them doing something to us is "expected" but why the hell I would possibly be ok with it is beyond cuckoo bananas crazy.

It is so weird watching some of the Republican Party go from "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST WE AREN'T PERFECT" to "Eh, we all make mistake guys and look at how garbage the US is. Why should we care when we do bad things too?"
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LordoftheMorons
07/19/18 11:31:53 PM
#52:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Does anyone here just not care that the United States regularly does the same shit to Russia? This has been going on in every election since the Cold War.

That's false. We no longer do that stuff (and certainly not to Russia unless you're drinking Putin's paranoid delusions).
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Jakyl25
07/19/18 11:33:48 PM
#53:


Suprak the Stud posted...
run by a thug who basically is pillaging the country for the benefit of himself and some mobsters.


Suprak the Stud posted...
or all of our faults, we aren't Russia.


Maybe not the best time to be using that as evidence <_<
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Suprak the Stud
07/19/18 11:36:06 PM
#54:


Trump isn't Putin.

He just wants to be best friends with the guy. Because he is very strong and BIGLY denied all charges brought forth by those QUACK intelligence operatives Trump put in charge.
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Not_an_Owl
07/20/18 1:20:55 AM
#55:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Does anyone here just not care that the United States regularly does the same shit to Russia? This has been going on in every election since the Cold War.

No, I generally think the citizens of a country should be allowed to choose their leaders without interference from foreign agents. I hope the reasons for that position are obvious.
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Kenri
07/20/18 1:54:38 AM
#56:


Jakyl25 posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
Does anyone here just not care that the United States regularly does the same shit to Russia? This has been going on in every election since the Cold War.


Putin rigs his own elections anyway

We rig our own elections too.
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CelesMyUserName
07/20/18 2:21:41 AM
#57:


https://twitter.com/KT_So_It_Goes/status/1020146311704825856

...

....

what
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redrocket
07/20/18 2:25:58 AM
#58:


Yes, what?
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Kenri
07/20/18 2:52:56 AM
#59:


Yikes.
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pxlated
07/20/18 5:36:29 AM
#60:


...is this real

This can't actually be real
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Eddv
07/20/18 7:04:35 AM
#61:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
1. The point is that you can't blame information for an election loss. There is false information from millions of sources floating around. You can't seriously blame one source for an entire presidential loss.

2. The only thing that really is concerning is hacking voting machines, which has been proven to be negligible.


1. You are missing the fucking point. This isn't about misinformation or else youre right, we could just go arrest Hannity, Tucker and Alex Jones right now.

This is about foreign agents purposefully interfering - not just through social media disinformation but with what pretty damningly appears to be coordination with a presidential campaign. A foreign agent crafting our electoral narratives is not acceptable.

Since you're so fond of Citizens United lets put it another way - we ban foreign money aka foreign speech in our finance laws. It is a principle. A rule that all abide by. To break such a rule is to break such a rule and it should be alarming when one side just casually abd repeatedly sought to break it. There should be consequences for that behavior. It doesnt need to have been THE determinative factor in order to be fucking problematic.

2. Except also maybe not really because holy shit people are dumb.

I mean I get it - you wanted the US to interfere in Syria, in Turkey, in other places and to you this is tit for tat. To that I say 1) have some fucking pride. And 2) a lot of people disagreed with you on those and its internally consistent for them to keep disagreeing now.
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Mr Lasastryke
07/20/18 7:55:42 AM
#62:


Suprak the Stud posted...
I get the impression he's being genuine here and not trolling,


keep dreaming. he's being about as genuine as red sox.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 8:13:23 AM
#63:


Eddv posted...
have some f***ing pride

Perhaps my pride is believing that the American electorate isn't weak enough to allow very mild foreign propaganda (which is an inevitability in the global age) to dictate voting patterns.

Can one person please point out to me an example of this "meddling" that was so subversive as that it genuinely fooled people into voting for Trump? Because all I have gathered are the following:

1. DNC hacks that simply distributed true information that the Clinton campaign was hiding from the public (which sounds more like an open democracy than anything else)

2. Voting machine hacks that had zero impact on any results (as determined by the FBI)

3. Fake news on social media... For which I have yet to see a compelling example of how these would compel someone to vote for Trump who wasn't already inclined to believe in other Alex Jones-like disinformation. But please provide examples if you think I'm wrong.
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Eddv
07/20/18 8:29:01 AM
#64:


Perhaps you're just full of shit too.

I don't know why you cant conceive of the actual case we are dealing with where this stuff occurred, we would prefer it not occur again, without necessarily assigning it full causal weight for Trumps election.

Stop sucking your own dick
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 8:32:50 AM
#65:


Eddv posted...
Perhaps you're just full of shit too.

I don't know why you cant conceive of the actual case we are dealing with where this stuff occurred, we would prefer it not occur again, without necessarily assigning it full causal weight for Trumps election.

Stop sucking your own dick

Because it happens every 4 years and hasn't been an issue in the past until everyone decided to go into hysterics because Trump.

But please provide an example of one of these horrendously damning interferences so we can all judge how terrible it is.
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 8:40:56 AM
#66:


Seph's entire world view is based on "fuck you, got mine." He's gotten gorsuch, and he's likely to get at least one more conservative on the court. He's gotten what he wanted, and doesn't care about the how or the why. That's it.
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Eddv
07/20/18 8:51:23 AM
#67:


https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/russian-facebook-ads-michigan-wisconsin/index.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/blogs/americas/2018/01/facebook-russian-trolls-era-information-warfare-180131135425603.html

Again we regulate the speech that occurs during elections. We regulate donations and other factors to minimize foreign influence over domestic elections. Remember money=speech. You believe that more than any of us.

These are examples of where that was undermined. We have a lot of bits and pieces of evidence that the propaganda provided by foreign agents was coordinated with Trumps message. This was an active effort to weaken our democracy by our enemies.

Why don't you care? Because it wasn't directly the cause of anything? Maybe you should realize that this isnt a floodgate that should be opened. That we need to safeguard our democracy. And because its about more than just one election every four years.

Its about our entire political culture being dictated by outsiders.

http://time.com/5342594/russia-fbi-director-election-meddling-sow-discord/

So again. This is fucking America, not some banana republic. We aren't anyones bottom boy to be pushed around. Have some fucking pride and fight back.

You fucking hypocrite.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 8:58:06 AM
#68:


Eddv posted...
Why don't you care? Because it wasn't directly the cause of anything? Maybe you should realize that this isnt a floodgate that should be opened. That we need to safeguard our democracy. And because its about more than just one election every four years.

Its about our entire political culture being dictated by outsiders.

http://time.com/5342594/russia-fbi-director-election-meddling-sow-discord/

So again. This is f***ing America. We aren't anyones bottom boy to be pushed around. Have some f***ing pride and fight back.

You f***ing hypocrite.

Nasty man!

I would say the discord has been sowed by the constant focus on something so inconsequential that we naturally deal with every single election, and something that is impossible to prevent.

Can you please tell me how you intend to keep "foreign influence" out of an electoral system predicated on public information?
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Eddv
07/20/18 9:04:07 AM
#69:


I would say you should go fuck yourself you inch deep piece of birdshit.

There are obvious ways to handle this AND you keep ignoring the most important bits.

You're officially red sox'd. Bye Felecia.
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Reg
07/20/18 9:07:52 AM
#70:


Imagine taking Seph even remotely seriously

Big yikes.
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Eddv
07/20/18 9:24:44 AM
#71:


Suprak the Stud posted...
It is so weird watching some of the Republican Party go from "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST WE AREN'T PERFECT" to "Eh, we all make mistake guys and look at how garbage the US is. Why should we care when we do bad things too?"


This part is pretty cuckoo bananas to me too.

Its legitimately strange for me to see like George Will, Bill Kristol, Tom Nichols all on the side of "wow fuck this guy" and fucking like Paul Ryan unable to find his testicles.
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xp1337
07/20/18 9:28:28 AM
#72:


pxlated posted...
...is this real

This can't actually be real

One of my favorite reactions applies yet again!

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/884798748152483840

But, yes, it's real. I think the most charitable possible interpretation is that it's in reference to a debate performance but you really can't make a lot of this stuff up.
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 9:37:06 AM
#73:


Eddv posted...
inch deep piece of birdshit.

This is good
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Jakyl25
07/20/18 9:52:07 AM
#74:


Nelson_Mandela posted...

3. Fake news on social media... For which I have yet to see a compelling example of how these would compel someone to vote for Trump who wasn't already inclined to believe in other Alex Jones-like disinformation. But please provide examples if you think I'm wrong.


They are the SOURCE of some the Alex Jones misinformation though
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Jakyl25
07/20/18 9:56:05 AM
#75:


Nelson_Mandela posted...

Perhaps my pride is believing that the American electorate isn't weak enough to allow very mild foreign propaganda (which is an inevitability in the global age) to dictate voting patterns.


You could believe this, but then youd have to accept that the American electorate deliberately chose to elect Donald Trump to the Presidency based on a careful consideration of actual facts.
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 10:10:30 AM
#76:


Jakyl25 posted...
the American electorate deliberately chose to elect Donald Trump to the Presidency based on a careful consideration of actual facts.

That's a good joke
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 10:53:08 AM
#77:


Eddv posted...
I would say you should go fuck yourself you inch deep piece of birdshit.

There are obvious ways to handle this AND you keep ignoring the most important bits.

You're officially red sox'd. Bye Felecia.

Wow I am sorry that a civil discussion makes you rage so furiously. Are you able to function in an office setting?
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Eddv
07/20/18 10:59:51 AM
#78:


In office setting:

You opinion has been heard but I think we are going to go in another direction.

Please see yourself out of my office.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 11:03:45 AM
#79:


Eddv posted...
In office setting:

You opinion has been heard but I think we are going to go in another direction.

Please see yourself out of my office.

But your clear lack of emotional maturity and control doesn't affect your professional life? That's really great!
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Eddv
07/20/18 11:11:45 AM
#80:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Eddv posted...
In office setting:

You opinion has been heard but I think we are going to go in another direction.

Please see yourself out of my office.

But your clear lack of emotional maturity and control doesn't affect your professional life? That's really great!


Not any more than your clear lack of human empathy or general inability to be remotely sincere.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/20/18 11:53:48 AM
#81:


Eddv posted...
Not any more than your clear lack of human empathy or general inability to be remotely sincere.

What about this discussion makes you think I'm being disingenuous?
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Kenri
07/20/18 11:54:58 AM
#82:


Eddv posted...
Not any more than your clear lack of human empathy or general inability to be remotely sincere.

Bad comparison since this clearly affects his professional life
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HashtagSEP
07/20/18 11:56:44 AM
#83:


I would assume the biggest impact on his professional life would probably be his inability to have somebody disagree with him without saying they have a mental condition
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 12:00:34 PM
#84:


https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1020332899164475392

Breaking News: President Trumps lawyer, Michael Cohen, secretly recorded Trump before the 2016 election discussing payments to a former Playboy model https://t.co/m9SrsHwO61


Lordy, there are tapes
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pxlated
07/20/18 12:34:26 PM
#85:


Why do we still care about the stormy Daniels shit
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Eddv
07/20/18 12:36:09 PM
#86:


The only reason to care about it really is that Cohen seems to be able to link together a bunch of disparate financial things
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HashtagSEP
07/20/18 12:39:56 PM
#87:


pxlated posted...
Why do we still care about the stormy Daniels shit


...The point of that isn't about Daniels

It's about the fact Cohen apparently kept tapes/records of random shit and probably has a ton on Trump if he flips

EDIT: Also the model it's talking about isn't even Daniels to begin with
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 12:46:20 PM
#88:


HashtagSEP posted...
...The point of that isn't about Daniels

It's about the fact Cohen apparently kept tapes/records of random shit and probably has a ton on Trump if he flips

Exactly.
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TheRock1525
07/20/18 12:48:01 PM
#89:


Plus the Stormy Daniels thing appears to definitely violate campaign finance laws.

Which, you know, is illegal. Just ask Dinesh D'Souza.
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NFUN
07/20/18 12:51:40 PM
#90:


TheRock1525 posted...
Plus the Stormy Daniels thing appears to definitely violate campaign finance laws.

Which, you know, is illegal. Just ask Dinesh D'Souza.

You mean Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza?
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Eddv
07/20/18 12:54:11 PM
#91:


Also, just a bit of historical context...Congress and Independent Counsel spent the better part of FIVE YEARS investigating Bill Clinton's real estate invements in the late 70s in the hopes of prosecuting him/investigating any potential debts that might compromise him.

I realize in the scheme of things whether Trump paid off a mistress is small potatoes but this kind of thing has ended many political careers and strongly compromised Clintons.
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LinkMarioSamus
07/20/18 1:02:38 PM
#92:


Changing topic for a sec...probably not to ask in a topic about politics, but I can't be the only one here tired of how seemingly everything must be political nowadays?

Yes I was thinking of The Last Jedi, which I haven't even seen.
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HashtagSEP
07/20/18 1:04:38 PM
#93:


...If you haven't seen it, why are you bringing it up?
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SupremeZero
07/20/18 1:05:02 PM
#94:


HashtagSEP posted...
...If you haven't seen it, why are you bringing it up?

Have you not met LMS
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 1:05:41 PM
#95:


The only reason TLJ is "political" is because whiney crybabies can't stand the thought of them not being the sole audience any more.
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scarletspeed7
07/20/18 1:10:46 PM
#96:


Just dropping in to point out that LMS has made about 6 different topics on TLJ without ever seeing it.
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Peace___Frog
07/20/18 1:12:22 PM
#97:


Jesus, he really is turning into ulti
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ChaosTonyV4
07/20/18 1:21:59 PM
#98:


HashtagSEP posted...
pxlated posted...
Why do we still care about the stormy Daniels shit


...The point of that isn't about Daniels

It's about the fact Cohen apparently kept tapes/records of random shit and probably has a ton on Trump if he flips

EDIT: Also the model it's talking about isn't even Daniels to begin with


Id say its also a point that if we have Trump on tape willing to pay someone off for something thats not even a crime, how can we trust him?
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Dancedreamer
07/20/18 1:30:01 PM
#99:


I like how somehow having female characters and minorities makes something 'political".
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scarletspeed7
07/20/18 1:30:36 PM
#100:


To be fair, Earth is very political and it has female characters and minorities.
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