Board 8 > ace attorney topic: the return (spoilers for 1-5, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

6-5

Pulling a Damon Gant again??
---

Holy god damn 6-5 twist

Channeling Dhurke may be my #1 top AA twist with a bullet.
---

yesssssss
---

It's so great.

I figured it out like 30 seconds before they revealed it, and I think that was the perfect amount of time to let it sink in before they hit you in the face with it.
---

I picked the wrong option because whaaaaaaaaaat
---

Probably my favorite Ace Attorney moment period.
---

LeonhartFour posted...

It's so great.

I figured it out like 30 seconds before they revealed it, and I think that was the perfect amount of time to let it sink in before they hit you in the face with it.

same. dat dread!
---

Yeah I had to go to work right after that, but this is the first case in the game I didn't think they made way too obvious. There are total left fields all over the place, I've barely predicted anything.
---

i can't be the only one facepalming at the aai1 topic, right?
---

maybe I should do a quick ranking of "best twist in each case"
---

go go! I could guess them probably
---

I'm going to have to figure out what the best twist in some of these cases are.
---

I started on this and then I realized that it depends on how you define 'twist'

like, 1-2's biggest twist is the intro.
---

Is it the intro or is it Maya channeling Mia for the first time?
---

well, I guess there's 'best twist' and 'biggest twist'. my way is the latter and yours is the former. well, I guess you could say that channeling is a little bit bigger of a twist than just the death, but you know what I mean.

makes me realize that we probably need to do a moments list the next time we run through this
---

Yeah, we definitely should.

I'm trying to figure out what the biggest 1-5 twist is. Is it the whole "Ema shoved Neil, not Darke?"
---

I've always been partial to calling the Bellboy to court. I guess that blew my inexperienced mind. The intro and the channeling are definitely bigger, though.

1-5...hm. I surprisingly can't think of too many big curveballs in 1-5. Ema shoving Neil does sound like the right answer. Or maybe THE BLUE BADGER WAS AT SL-9
---

1-5 is the only case that was able to actually make me believe that the assistant girl did it
---

1-5 might be the instaguilty near the end
---

also I think the biggest twist is the double murder?
---

transcience posted...

1-5 might be the instaguilty near the end

I fell so hard for that so you might be right
---

although now that I think about it I'm kinda reluctant to count it because it's a bad ending and not something canonical

but it's still great
---

boooo

I would certainly count that in a moments list. not that I think it rates, but that's a fun little gotcha
---

I think I'd need to play through the series again to properly rate some of those. either that or a boatload of yt vids.

and I'd probably need to link the videos in a list anyway so maybe just s ton of research
---

Yeah, I probably won't go looking for videos in a quick list. If we were doing a full list, I would.
---

yeah, a moments list is too big for a quick thing

one per case is more of a thought exercise than anything
---

okay here we go

1. The hair flip (2-4)
2. Dhurke was dead all along (6-5)
3. Who is channeling Dahlia Hawthorne right now? (3-5)
4. Fawles dies on the stand (3-4)
5. The metal detector (1-4)
6. Simon is the mastermind (E2-5)
7. The real scene of the crime was Studio Two (1-3)
8. Shih-na is Yew (E1-5)
9. The fingerprints belong to Athena Cykes (5-4)
10. Maya gets "executed" (L-3)
11. Ron arrested for murder after being acquitted (3-2)
12. It was Mimi, not Ini (2-2)
13. Fulbright is the Phantom (5-5)
14. Kristoph was the killer (4-1)
15. Gant tricks Phoenix into a guilty verdict (1-5)
16. Mia dies (1-2)
17. The assassination was staged (E2-1)
18. Shipley's death was accidental (5-6)
19. Tahrust's death was suicide (6-3)
20. Damian is the Amazing Nine-Tails (5-2)
21. Edgeworth turns in his badge (E2-4)
22. Phoenix as a defendant (3-1)
23. Retinz is Reus (6-2)
24. Apollo's cases underneath Misham's paintings (4-4)
25. Dr. Eldoon (4-2)
26. Yew is the Yatagarasu (E1-4)
27. The Storyteller's testimony (L-4)
28. Hicks died from a free fall (E1-2)
29. Frank Sahwit?! (E2-2)
30. Robin is a girl (5-3)
31. Kate set up Gustavia (E2-3)
32. There were two thieves (E1-1)
33. THE MURDER WEAPON WAS UDON DOUGH (6-4)
34. Tigre staged a fake poisoning (3-3)
35. Wellington stole the wrong phone (2-1)
36. Sorin's 50 First Dates Syndrome (6-6)
37. The glasses were in the milk bucket (L-2)
38. Tonate didn't actually detonate the bomb (5-1)
39. Lamiroir names Daryan as the killer (4-3)
40. Olivia was a jewel thief (L-1)
41. The lion sneezed (2-3)
42. The key goes in upside down (6-1)
43. The kidnapping was staged (E1-3)
44. The clock is nine hours fast, not three hours slow (1-1)

yeah I guess that works for doing it off the top of my head and no serious research
---

You didn't do one for 6-6 which, whether you go with the two receptions, Sorin's memory, or Nichody's backstory, doesn't rank high on my list

I think I mostly agree with this list, although I would have E2-4 and 4-4 so, so much lower - E2-4's dramatic moments just sort of fall flat for me, and 4-4's moment is cool but then has literally zero payoff so it's a complete letdown.

I think I mostly went for how cool they were at the time when I first experienced them (it's why 1-3 is so high because holy crap that one totally blew my mind since I wasn't ready for this game to be so crazy), so the 4-4 one gets a lot of credit for me since that was so cool, even if they ultimately did nothing with it.

And there, edited 6-6 in.
---

LeonhartFour posted...

7. The real scene of the crime was Studio Two (1-3)

I would rephrase this to "The Steel Samurai lost the fight"!
---

Reposting my list I made(without the writeups)..a year ago? I don't remember
Not updated for AA6 and does not include DGS1/2

60.Apollo shuts down Blackquill - Ace Attorney Dual Destinies - The Monsterous Turnabout (5-2)
59.Accusing the Judge of hiding Max's bust under his bench - Ace Attorney: Justice For All - Turnabout Big Top (2-2)
58.Phoenix enters the courtroom - Ace Attorney Dual Destinies - Turnabout Countdown (5-1)
57.Trucy kidnapping - Apollo Justice : Ace Attorney - Turnabout Corner (4-2)
56.The paintings - Apollo Justice : Ace Attorney - Turnabout Succession (4-4)
55.Godot shut down Franziska - Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations - Bridge to the Turnabout(3-5)
54.Arresting Sasha - Ace Attorney Dual Destinies - Turnabout Reclaimed (5-DLC)
53.Bat backstory - Ace Attorney: Justice For All - Turnabout Big Top (2-3)
52.Edgeworth and Franziska - Ace Attorney: Justice For All - Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
51.Godot trap - Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - The Stolen Turnabout (3-2)
50.Case 2 intro -Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - Imprisoned Turnabout (AAI2-2)
49.Proof of friendship - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Academy (5-3)
48.Kay regains some of her memories - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
47.Sahwit toupee throw - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - The First Turnabout (1-1)
46.Finding John - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Grand Turnabout (AAI2-5)
45.Turnabout Reclaimed ending - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Reclaimed (5-DLC)
44.Pearl return - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Reclaimed (5-DLC)
43.Rise from the Ashes ending - Phoenix Wright : Ace Attorney - Rise from the Ashes (1-5)
42.Maya meeting Mia - Ace Attorney : Justice For All - Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2)
41.Meeting Manfred von Karma in the Evidence Room - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4)
40.Athena Flashback - Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies - Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)
39.Accusing Ema of killing Neil Marshall - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Rise from the Ashes (1-5)
38.The Dissin' of Phoenix Wright - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Reclaimed (5-DLC)
37.Robin, Junie and Hugh confession - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Academy (5-3)
36.Gumshoe saving Phoenix from Vasquez "Professionals" - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Samurai (1-3)
35.Chasing Shelly-De-Killer - Ace Attorney : Justice For All - Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
34.Sir Belduke suicide note - Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney
33.Edgeworth giving up his prosecutor badge - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
32.Maya was kidnapped -Ace Attorney : Justice For All - Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
31.Athena breakdown - Ace Attorney : Dual Destinies - Turnabout Academy (5-3)
30.Kay Crying - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth - Turnabout Reminiscence (AAI1-4)
---

LeonhartFour posted...

28. Hicks died from a free fall (E1-2)

i disagree with a bunch, but i can only presume that this is so high because of the music?
---

29.Sebestian logic chess - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 The Grand Turnabout (AAI2-5)
28.Blaise teasing Edgeworth - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
27.Rise from the Ashes Bad Ending - Phoenix Wright : Ace Attorney - Rise from the Ashes (1-5)
26.Tricking the Tigre - Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - Recipe for Turnabout (3-3)
25.Mia takes down Dahlia Hawthrone - Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - Turnabout Memories (3-1)
24.Kay and Edgeworth - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
23.Kira Execution - Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - The Fire Witch
22.Sebestian vs Blaise - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Grand Turnabout (AAI2-5)
21.Athena's Black Psyche-Locks - Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies - Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)
20.Revealing "The Phantom" Identity -Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies - Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)
19.Ini Miney true identity! - Phoenix Wright: Justice For All - Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2)
18.Iris Confession - Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations - Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5)
17.Kay memory regain - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
16.Yew escape - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth - Turnabout Reminiscence (AAI1-4)
15.The Mastermind Reveal - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Grand Turnabout (AAI2-5)
14.Don't forget DL-6! - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4)
13.Courtney turning against Blaise - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 - The Forgotten Turnabout (AAI2-4)
12.Who is channeling Dahlia Hawthrone - Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations - Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5)
11.Edgeworth Objection! - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Samurai (1-3)
10.The fingerprints on the ligther belongs to.. - Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies - The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4)
9.Edgeworth reveals Adrian Andrews secret - Phoenix Wright: Justice For All - Farewell, My Turnabout
8.Cross examining the parrot - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Goodbyes
7.Matt Engrade Psyche Lock - Phoenix Wright: Justice For All -Farewell, My Turnabout
6.Bad ending- The Miracle Never Happen - Phoenix Wright: Justice For All -Farewell, My Turnabout
5.The end of Matt Engarde - Phoenix Wright: Justice For All - Farewell, My Turnabout
4.Manfred von Karma - the headbang - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Turnabout Goodbyes
3.Terry Fawles suicide - Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations - Turnabout Beginnings
2.The end of Godot - Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations - Bridge to the Turnabout
1.Clipping the Yatagarasu's wings - Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth - Turnabout Ablaze
---

Wasn't really high on AA6 in general so in case I ever decide to update it and include it, the only instance I would add is Leon's second place

It deserves a top 5 moment in the series for sure
Anything else..meh, not really
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

28. Hicks died from a free fall (E1-2)

i disagree with a bunch, but i can only presume that this is so high because of the music?

It is a really cool moment paired with the music.

SeabassDebeste posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

7. The real scene of the crime was Studio Two (1-3)

I would rephrase this to "The Steel Samurai lost the fight"!

Nah, that's not the part that got me. It was the picture with the 2 in it.
---

1-3 could also have been Edgeworth's face turn or "Jack Hammer was in the Steel Samurai costume", just in case you need a reminder of how much of a powerhouse 1-3 really is

1-3 is a legit top ten case for me because it has so many crazy moments in those last two days.

Heck, you can throw in Gumshoe coming to the rescue got good measure there.
---

too many comments to type out

the kind of thing that can only be resolved by a counter list
---

I wonder how much of 1-3 is "firsts" as opposed to being legit great

I have my own list of big moments for that case too, but I think that question is hard to separate
---

Oh, 1-3 being the first crazy case absolutely helps it, and I don't even deny it. Those moments are still really good on their own though.
---

Alright, AA6 finished. Still have the DLC, but various thoughts.


Yes, breakdowns are pretty week in this game with a couple exceptions, but it's totally made up for by very strong and numerous unique mid trial animations. Seriously, chock filled with them. AA5 may be a total wringer in breakdowns, having no weak links and arguably by far the best overall in the series, but I can't remember a single other unique mid trial animation other than Robin dropping the braces. There were good character appearance shifts, but every AA has that.

6-3 is strong, maybe the strongest midgame case? Things thay directly tie into the final case like 3-4 being excluded, of course.

Nahyuta had some good shit at the end, but overall I think he's without a doubt dead last for primary prosecutors. Didn't care for any of his dialogue, and his move on schtick got sooooooo oooooold.

6-4 is a fucking travesty, even ignoring it's late game placement. Not since 2-3 have I been less invested, there's a good chance I might consider this the worst case in the series. It alone forces me to say AA5 > AA6 as a whole. It is bad enough that in hindsight I would have used the chapter select and skipped it entirely.

I think it's ridiculous that Day 1 and 2 of 6-5 aren't different chapters. It makes 6-5 a total ringer in case rankings, and again, Day 1 of 6-5 was more fleshed out and substantial than 5-4, so like....

Keeping Apollo in Khurain seems like a total copout. AA4 felt more like an usurption, but 6-5 SCREAMS out as a totally legit, well realized passing of the torch from Phoienix to Apollo. I mean, yeah, Apollo's return in AA7 will likely be huge, and it HOPEFULLY gives them an excuse to go hard on Athena advancement after she was completely wasted in this game, but the rumor that Phoenix is back to primary billing in AA7 is dissapointing to here.

I feel like this may be the worst of the series in regards to making the culprit too obvious. Obviously 6-1 doesn't count. 6-2 might be the worst 'I've been holding onto this obvious evidence for way too fucking long" in the series with the arm scar. 6-4 amazingly makes it obvious by being TOO clean in it's attempt to keep the twist, since sense second the clown left the stand with no hubub and having barely said anything, Ininstantly realized "oh, guess she did it". 6-5 saves it all. Even if the true culprit is easily guessed, the absolutely roller coaster ride of it all is a blast. Even without Day 1 it would be a contendor for the top. The only issue is how obvious Rayfa's lineage becomes before the trial even starts,and that's treated as one of the ultimate revalations.

Nitpicking aside, this is a strong entry. I can't really put them in absolute order, but my top 3 are for sure 3, 5, and 6.
---

6-3 is a top ten case.

I think they had to get rid of one of the attorneys because 3 main characters is way too many if you're only having 5-6 cases per game, and Apollo was the easiest one to let go of. I'll miss him, but at least he got to go out on top.
---

6-4 hate boo
---

I've watch both season of Rakugo Shinju, so it doesn't even have the defense of "not getting it".
---

How long is 6-6? I'm getting a new phone friday and really don't want to risk a data transfer mid case.
---

it's comparable to 6-2.
---

According to my data, 6-6 is a 6 hour case.
---

it's so crazy how 6-6 seems brief but is still longer than 1-4. I've been skimming through some playthroughs and the jump from 1-4 to 1-5 is crazy. I don't even think it's 1-5 so much as AA1 being the outlier.

I miss that brevity.
---

Yeah, PW1 is structured so much differently than the rest of the series.

Actually, AAI1 is kind of similar to PW1 in structure, right down to the fifth case being ridiculously longer than all the others. It's just not as good.
---