Poll of the Day > Should girls be allowed to join the Boy Scouts?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Next month they will be allowed to. What do you think?
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They should join boy and girl scouts and just make it the scouts.
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Yeah I don't see why not. I expect people will respond with that Girl Scouts already exists, which it does, but the two organizations don't offer the same experience.
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I heard about it on the news and I'm totally okay with this. They should alter the name (but it's not a big deal to keep it the same). Boy and Girl scouts offer completely different experiences. If when I have a child and it's a girl and she is more interested in thing knots and camping and all that then more power to em.

They are probably going to need some female squad leaders now though. Unless that's already a thing.
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Don't you know?

Genders are outdated. It's 2017.

Get with the times.
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It should be the Xe scouts
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I joined a scouts program for like a week and it was just called Cub scouts

Boys and girls

no
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Boy Scouts is a religious organization anyways, it should probably just be gotten rid of entirely.
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Kind of stupid really.

Adding girls to a mostly boys environment will cause issues such as making boy scouts no longer about just being a scout. You will have people coming to boy scouts just to meet girls. Adding a few girls will also cause drama, and hurt feelings over the guys fighting over girls.

I saw the girl who caused this reform. I think she wanted this because boy scouts are better. I mean instead of reforming her group to meet the same standards she changed someone elses group. Kinda bs.

Dikitain posted...

Boy Scouts is a religious organization anyways, it should probably just be gotten rid of entirely.

Meh, i think this mostly depends on the troop that you're in. The one I was in as a kid pretty much downplayed the religious aspects and didn't really care if anyone in it wasn't Christian/theist.
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Personally I'm kinda indifferent toward this even if it'll means more training and regulations for us adult leaders.

Incoming wall of text because I already had this discussion with my friends....

The Boy Scouts of America covers the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Venture Crews. The Venture Crew itself is already co-ed but have a different set of ranks and awards compared to the Boy Scouts. The minimum age to join the Venture Crew is also higher at 14 years old or 13 years old and have completed the eighth grade. For some youth, if you wait that long to get them interested, they might not maintain that interest.

The way I see it, some girls might not be satisfied with what the Girl Scouts of America has to offer. It really comes down to the individual troops and leaders as to what they do but I can see why some are not happy with it. I'd say the burden is on the GSA to maintain the interest of these female youths instead of being concern about losing members to the BSA.

Another thing is awards and recognition. The GSA highest rank/award is the Gold Award which may not be as recognized as the Eagle rank among the BSA. I think the Venture Crew highest award is the Silver Award which may not be as recognized as Eagle rank as well. Most people outside of Scouting might recognize the Eagle rank/award but I have a feeling not many outside of Scouting are aware of what the Gold and Silver Awards are. Hell, colleges acknowledge the Eagle rank and I think it helps having it on your application.

To be frank, with the Mormon Church taking out their older Scouts from the BSA, that is a chunk of money the BSA is losing. I was told Mormon Scouts account for about 17% of BSA Scouts. I can see why they want to open up to girls. I can also see why the GSA is not happy as it means them losing some potential members.

I actually wished the BSA and GSA merged long ago but their ideology is/are simply too different. It's weird because Scouting in other parts of the world is co-ed. Still, at the end of the day our goals as adult leaders are to provide a positive experience for these youths and prepare them to be better adults in their future. Fighting over memberships shouldn't be something to argue about but unfortunately it is. I have no idea what the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, and Girls Scouts at the temple that host us is going to do about this. The BSA may allow the individual troops to decide whether or not to accept girls.
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Scouts Canada was boys + girls when I was a kid. I'm not sure what the problem is.

dioxxys posted...

You will have people coming to boy scouts just to meet girls.

I'm not sure how getting an official virgin uniform helps you meet girls.

dioxxys posted...

You will have people coming to boy scouts just to meet girls.

Funny you say that. I recall a fellow Scout inviting a friend to our meeting once just to check it out. It was also a rank requirement to bring a friend to a meeting. One of the first thing he asked was "Where are the Girl Scouts?"...

Jokes aside, the Venture Crew is co-ed so it's possible. Hell, Scouting in most parts of the world are already co-ed. Even in England, where Scouting originated from, it is co-ed.

dioxxys posted...

I saw the girl who caused this reform. I think she wanted this because boy scouts are better. I mean instead of reforming her group to meet the same standards she changed someone elses group. Kinda bs.

I think the concern was about getting Eagle rank. Venture Crew doesn't offer anything like that so joining Boy Scouts was the only option which will be soon enough. It's kinda odd that Venture Crew, being under the BSA, wouldn't offer the Eagle rank as something obtainable by their Scouts.
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InfestedAdam posted...

To be frank, with the Mormon Church taking out their older Scouts from the BSA, that is a chunk of money the BSA is losing. I was told Mormon Scouts account for about 17% of BSA Scouts. I can see why they want to open up to girls. I can also see why the GSA is not happy as it means them losing some potential members.

I would be surprised if it wasn't even more than 17%. Scouting was always part and parcel of growing up in the church.
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Mixed feelings. On one hand, it's a traditionally male club where many of the activities make sense to only have male members there -- such as camping -- because, in theory, it requires less supervision. On the other hand, I'm *assuming* that enrollment is still way down from where it used to be, even as recently as in the 90s. Likewise, boys and girls like socializing, especially since young men often welcome *any* opportunity to mingle with young women. And membership is less likely to decline by age (as it traditionally has) in a system with co-mingling.

Blightzkrieg posted...

dioxxys posted...

You will have people coming to boy scouts just to meet girls.

I'm not sure how getting an official virgin uniform helps you meet girls.

If the club *has* girls in it, which it will, by definition it will help them meet girls. Back when it was male-only, there was no chance of that. Plus I expect that uniforms are pretty much out the door anyway.
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I don't care.

But don't the girl and boy scouts do different things?

At the very least I've never heard of boy scout cookies.

I've also heard less about girl scouts learning survival stuff.
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Girl scouts is boring from what I hear.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

I don't care.

But don't the girl and boy scouts do different things?

At the very least I've never heard of boy scout cookies.

I've also heard less about girl scouts learning survival stuff.

Yeah, boy scouts sell popcorn. I was a girl scout and went all the way to senior scout.

I don't care if they are combined but the leaders need to be very good. I had one that was lazy.

Yellow posted...

Girl scouts is boring from what I hear.

they are just cookie bandits
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myghostisdead posted...

I don't care if they are combined but the leaders need to be very good. I had one that was lazy.

And also, like, not rapey.
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses guys.
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Sure just call it the scouts and merge the two

Then they can both do all the survival and wilderness stuff and both sell cookies
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Looks like the BSA will allow existing Packs to decide on accepting girls or not. As for the Eagle rank program for girls, it better be the same there'll be more headaches down the road.

https://goo.gl/DTnJCM

On another note,

In a scathing letter published by BuzzFeed News at the time, Girl Scouts National Board President Kathy Hopinkah Hannan called the Boy Scouts' plan unsettling and said it would only serve to undercut the Girl Scouts.

All I can say to this is, make your program more interesting. If girls are choosing the BSA over the GSA it's either because the GSA is boring to them or they want the recognition that comes with being an Eagle Scout.

Mead posted...

and both sell cookies

Funny enough, my friend was asking why doesn't the BSA sells cookies. Oh I'm sure the GSA will love that.
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no. let them join the girl scouts
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boy scouts has eagle, but girl scouts have cookies...
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Scouts have been unisex in Canada since before I got involved in them, and that was over 20 years ago. It hasn't particularly been an issue, and the girls that joined generally liked it much better than Guides.
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Can boys join the girl scouts? Either way, I think it's dumb for either of them to be mix gendered with their names. I'm not opposed to mixed gender scouts, just think it's dumb as is. If there was no girl scouts, this would make more sense. Maybe both should be made into mixed groups, rename the boy scouts to wilderness scouts or something and the girl scouts could be something like bake sale scouts.
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I think people need to quit trying to change everything and leave all this shit alone.

Dikitain posted...

Boy Scouts is a religious organization anyways, it should probably just be gotten rid of entirely.

Or just get rid of the religious aspects?

We did away with them years ago and nobody misses them, only the international Scout's Union, but we aren't listening to their pleas to reinstate them...
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Idk why scouts isn't just an organisation for people to learn scouting skills, there's no need to bring in gender or relgion.
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dragon504 posted...

Maybe both should be made into mixed groups, rename the boy scouts to wilderness scouts or something and the girl scouts could be something like bake sale scouts.

This.
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As long as the girl guides/whatever they're called is open to boys and both groups are rebranded appropriately then it's all good.
Better yet, do away with both groups, merge the existing staff/members and just have them all called scouts.
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No.

People are so binary it kills me.

NO. YOU CANNOT DO THAT, THAT IS TOO FAR.

Dikitain posted...

Boy Scouts is a religious organization anyways, it should probably just be gotten rid of entirely.

Silly shit angtheists say.
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Dikitain posted...

Boy Scouts is a religious organization anyways, it should probably just be gotten rid of entirely.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that but I personally do wish we allowed atheist Scouts into the program. As it stands now, when you apply to be a Scout you need to declare a religion. The ideas of "Duty to God" and "A Scout is Reverent" are literally in our Scout Oath and Law.

The irony I see in that is Scouts, as far as I know, are taught that it means being dutiful to one's beliefs and being respectful of the beliefs, or lack of, of others. Kinda hypocritical in my opinion if Scouts are being taught to be respectful of other's beliefs when Scouting as a whole won't acknowledge atheism. Hell, I'm Buddhist and I personally wouldn't consider it a religion but it is according to the BSA.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Idk why scouts isn't just an organisation for people to learn scouting skills, there's no need to bring in gender or relgion.

I wish it was but with the different ideology between the BSA and GSA, there might never be a merge. Scouting across the globe is co-ed and yet the Scouting of America feel the two sexes should be kept separate. If we're preparing these youth to be better adults, learning to work with the opposite sex maybe outta be included in the program. The BSA does have the co-ed program via the Venture Crew but their awards and ranks are different from the Boy Scouts.

DDirtyDastard posted...

I think people need to quit trying to change everything and leave all this shit alone.

I don't want to put the blame on the GSA but as a whole I think some girls just don't like what the GSA has to offer. And for better or worse, the Gold Award from the GSA and Silver Award from the Venture Crew are not as recognizable as the Eagle rank from the BSA. Unfortunately I am not sure if this is something the GSA can ever change in their program to allow for better recognition for their Scouts.
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^
what?
i never had to "declare a religion" when i joined the boy scouts. (i don't believe in god)
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

^
what?
i never had to "declare a religion" when i joined the boy scouts. (i don't believe in god)

Well that's interesting. Mighta changed since. I think in the current applications there is a part where you declare your religion. I can't recall how it was like when I joined Scouting in the 90's though.

EDIT: Can't find the part where you declare your religion but there is the part about Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle.

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing
an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is
absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization
or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing
to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws and codes of the Boy
Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406A.pdf

https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Declaration_of_Religious_Principle
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Im still surprised that they have split them in two genders, over here we just got Scouts that both boys and girls can join.
So why cant we have three groups?
One for boys, one for girls and one for both?
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what do boys in boyscouts do that girls in girlscout don't do
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Foppe posted...

Im still surprised that they have split them in two genders, over here we just got Scouts that both boys and girls can join.
So why cant we have three groups?
One for boys, one for girls and one for both?

i reckon it has to do with sleeping together. might cause problems or something. like boys doing stuff. i dunno.
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magemaximus posted...

what do boys in boyscouts do that girls in girlscout don't do

Some of that comes down to the individual leaders. Even among the Boy Scouts, different troops focuses on different activities. Same goes for the Girl Scouts. Different troops focuses on different activities. Some more or less outdoorsy than others.

Personally I think the issues lies with the highest ranks/awards. Eagle rank among the Boy Scouts is more recognized than the Gold Award among the Girl Scouts or Silver Award among the Venture Crew (co-ed program for the BSA). I can see this being an incentive to some girls in wanting to join the Boy Scouts program even if the Venture Crew program is available.

magemaximus posted...

i reckon it has to do with sleeping together. might cause problems or something. like boys doing stuff. i dunno.

I am sure that is always going to be an issue but that's when it is up to us adult leaders to ensure there's no questionable action going on. Co-ed exist in Scouting in other countries and even the Venture Crew program is co-ed so it is possible. Of course it would mean additional or new training for us current Boy Scouts adult leaders.

Youth Protection (which is more like adult protection) train us adults to avoid situations where our actions could be questioned. One aspect of Youth Protection is adults cannot share tents with youths. I can only assume the same might kinda apply for boys and girls where they must be in separate tents.
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magemaximus posted...

Foppe posted...

Im still surprised that they have split them in two genders, over here we just got Scouts that both boys and girls can join.
So why cant we have three groups?
One for boys, one for girls and one for both?

i reckon it has to do with sleeping together. might cause problems or something. like boys doing stuff. i dunno.

...they dont need to be in the same tents at night...
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magemaximus posted...

what do boys in boyscouts do that girls in girlscout don't do

actual camping. my sister was in girlscouts, they "camped" in someone's backyard....
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

actual camping.

Everyone knows theres going to be big restrictions on this now right?

Like its going to be like going to hell and back to organize a camping trip now right?

If you dont know what I'm talking about, christian organizations are extremely strict on mixed sex activities right? Like the lengths they go to in order to prevent boys and girls from being alone together are sometimes ridiculous.

I cant imagine how they will organize a camping trip with overly concerned christian parents worrying about fornication.

InfestedAdam posted...

The irony I see in that is Scouts, as far as I know, are taught that it means being dutiful to one's beliefs and being respectful of the beliefs, or lack of, of others. Kinda hypocritical in my opinion if Scouts are being taught to be respectful of other's beliefs when Scouting as a whole won't acknowledge atheism. Hell, I'm Buddhist and I personally wouldn't consider it a religion but it is according to the BSA.

Maybe it's a matter of respecting beliefs, but non-beliefs are exempted =p

InfestedAdam posted...

I wish it was but with the different ideology between the BSA and GSA, there might never be a merge. Scouting across the globe is co-ed and yet the Scouting of America feel the two sexes should be kept separate. If we're preparing these youth to be better adults, learning to work with the opposite sex maybe outta be included in the program. The BSA does have the co-ed program via the Venture Crew but their awards and ranks are different from the Boy Scouts.

Keep in mind that the GSA and BSA were developed at different times by different people. Afaik, the BSA was created with the intent of being a division of the larger scouting societies whereas the GSA didn't start with formal ties.

Otherwise, yeah, they're *very* different organizations which wouldn't mesh well. And the GSA is loudly protesting the change right now:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/girl-scouts-slam-boy-scouts-decision-accept-girls/story?id=50433448

"The Boy Scouts' house is on fire," Girl Scouts told ABC News in a statement today. "Instead of addressing systemic issues of continuing sexual assault, financial mismanagement and deficient programming, BSA's senior management wants to add an accelerant to the house fire by recruiting girls."

Oh, plus apparently the whole thing isn't going co-ed. They're still doing single-gender at the "den" level, which I think is the smallest unit.

Foppe posted...

magemaximus posted...

Foppe posted...

Im still surprised that they have split them in two genders, over here we just got Scouts that both boys and girls can join.
So why cant we have three groups?
One for boys, one for girls and one for both?

i reckon it has to do with sleeping together. might cause problems or something. like boys doing stuff. i dunno.

...they dont need to be in the same tents at night...

You mean they can sleep together long distance? How does that work?
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Should GIRLS be allowed to play GAMEBOYS?


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Zeus posted...

Oh, plus apparently the whole thing isn't going co-ed. They're still doing single-gender at the "den" level, which I think is the smallest unit.

Packs could still be co-ed though per this article.

https://goo.gl/DTnJCM

Packs consist of multiple Dens. Lion Den, Tiger Den, Wolf Den, Bear Den, and Webelos Den. So you could have Pack 123 which is further broken down into multiple Dens which are age-based. This would make sense given the Girl Scouts are also broken down by age. You got the Daisies, Brownies, Juniors, Cadettes, Seniors, and Ambassadors.

It is only at the Boy Scouts level where I am not sure how it will play out since troops vary. Some setup their patrols by age while some are mixed. We'll have just to wait till 2019 to see how it plays out.

Personally, my only real concern is whether or not girls will be subjected to the same requirements as boys to earn the Eagle rank. The article mentions a program will be created to allow girls to earn the rank of Eagle. If they're not using the same current existing program I can only wonder if it'll be different in some way.
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