Current Events > Beto O'Rourke endorses "Uncommitted" in Michigan's Democratic primary.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ButteryMales posted...

You're the one that fears Trump so much that you ignore genocide. Hypocritically insulting people doesn't work.

So you support Trump. Good for you.

I am not against doing this in the primary, but when the time comes for the actual election in November just remember that as bad as Biden Is on the Israel issue Trump will be worse.

ClayGuida posted...

So you support Trump. Good for you.

I don't support Trump, I just don't fear him enough to not vote at all.

ButteryMales posted...

I don't support Trump

lol

You sound like more of a Trump supporter than I do.

ButteryMales posted...

You shouldn't care about the opinions of people who ignore passive aggressive crap like
ClayGuida posted...

Elections have consequences. These morons acting like Trump would be better than Biden on Israel or Gaza will find out real quick if they help Trump get elected. Trump's talked about deporting minorities day one. Let's see if they make the cut or not.

ClayGuida posted...

Muslims take note. I bet they think he's only talking about those south of us.

But sure, tell me how bad Biden is.

, completely ignore the main topic, and make shitty posts about anonymous identities that don't matter.

Cool. I'm sure plenty of posters will agree with you.

I think so too.

ButteryMales posted...

I think so too.

Forgot to change accounts?

Oof

CADE_FOSTER posted...

Its Biden or nothing you get Trump if you dont want Biden so suck it up princesses

This is that weird hostility I'm trying to get at. This isn't how you convince voting blocs that've abandoned you. If the victimized blocs are the one revolting and threatening Biden's chances, what is the value of Biden remaining as he is now?

I would get the steadfast confidence from a political angle if Biden polled well and this was as simple as disaffected Bernie supporters being pissy like they were in 2016 but it's pretty evident things run deeper than that. Biden's numbers are utterly abysmal for an incumbent and the only play I've seen in respect to this is to just deny the polling is accurate even when it's polling firms that have been accurate through a lot of tricky cycles.

The confusion I have is: Why be this determined to run this clunker across the finish line? Why is "you can't criticize Biden even as he has polled horrendously for months" a strategy? How does it work? The strategy seems to be "browbeat voters into a game of lesser evils."

That failed with Clinton in spectacular fashion, so what's the gameplan? Hope Trump is convicted and that the conviction isn't discarded by the courts? Hope that Biden coasts MI from the Rs infighting? Hope polls that better assessed Democrats in 2022 are now suddenly wrong when all of them show the same point? Hope Trump's voting base stays home?

I understand the baseline of "we can't replace Biden" but if this morphs into "We can't criticize him either" when in-party pressure is literally how you fix the fact a bunch of voters don't like Biden, then what? Everybody who points this out wants Trump? Does that sound like viable or legible concept? When has this ever, ever worked?

Keep in mind that the baseline alarm bell ringing is specifically because this is neither '16 nor '20 where Democrats looked strong in the polls. It's starting off on a negative foothold now but the basis for this is no longer crank outlets.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

This is that weird hostility I'm trying to get at. This isn't how you convince voting blocs that've abandoned you.

You don't convince stupid people. They do stupid things because they're stupid.

"Look what you made me do" isn't a valid response.

ClayGuida posted...

You don't convince stupid people. They do stupid things because they're stupid.

"Look what you made me do" isn't a valid response.

You're a narcissist that can't accurately judge the intelligence of others.

ButteryMales posted...

You're a narcissist that can't accurately judge the intelligence of others.

You sound so mad.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

I would get the steadfast confidence from a political angle if Biden polled well and this was as simple as disaffected Bernie supporters being pissy like they were in 2016

Even then there were warning signs such as Hillary polling worse against Trump than Bernie and polling behind every non-far-right Republican. There was both a Democratic fatigue and a heavy anti-establishment current and nobody on her end bothered to account for it at all.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


if Trump was president Gaza would already no longer exist.

ClayGuida posted...

You don't convince stupid people. They do stupid things because they're stupid.

"Look what you made me do" isn't a valid response.

I'm not asking Biden to court voters in R+36 districts that elect MTG and I think it's unfair to say the large cohort of Muslim voters are "stupid." They got Biden over the bump in GA/MI in 2020. How is turning around and just saying they are worth losing now going to help Biden? Why not just listen to them? The demand isn't to replace Biden, it's to just publicly call for a ceasefire.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

I'm not asking Biden to court voters in R+36 districts that elect MTG and I think it's unfair to say the large cohort of Muslim voters are "stupid." They got Biden over the bump in GA/MI in 2020. How is turning around and just saying they are worth losing now going to help Biden? Why not just listen to them? The demand isn't to replace Biden, it's to just publicly call for a ceasefire.

Listen to them, we have. It's a tragedy what's happening in Gaza. But they refuse to say what they think will happen if Trump is President. Because it factually won't be any better and will absolutely be far worse.

But if that isn't enough, yes they're stupid people threatening to do stupid things that will be a huge detriment to their own people. The term 'cutting off the nose to spite the face' exists for a reason. It's people like this, like you, and like everyone else pushing this charade.

SecretBase posted...

Even then there were warning signs such as Hillary polling worse against Trump than Bernie and polling behind every non-far-right Republican. There was both a Democratic fatigue and a heavy anti-establishment current and nobody on her end bothered to account for it at all.

The main things keeping Biden in this despite the polling probably boil down to him not having the same venom directed at him, some Trump voters potentially being uninterested after the 2020 "fraud" narratives GOP operatives pushed, and presumably a more effective turnout operation that didn't focus on running up the popular vote score.

Still, the polling isn't great for Biden yet and I imagine he'd need to really rely on Trump being loudly as unhinged as possible in the public address for months on end.

ClayGuida posted...

Listen to them, we have. It's a tragedy what's happening in Gaza. But they refuse to say what they think will happen if Trump is President. Because it factually won't be any better and will absolutely be far worse.

But if that isn't enough, yes they're stupid people threatening to do stupid things that will be a huge detriment to their own people. The term 'cutting off the nose to spite the face' exists for a reason. It's people like this, like you, and like everyone else pushing this charade.

It's sickening. All the posters who pile on Biden's stance, yet play down what another Trump administration would do.

mistymermaid posted...

It's sickening. All the posters who pile on Biden's stance, yet play down what another Trump administration would do.

Except nobody does that. People keep putting up this strawman argument that protest voters think Trump has better stances on anything.

That is not the case. The people not voting are refusing because they oppose both Biden and Trump's stance. It's that simple.

ClayGuida posted...

Listen to them, we have. It's a tragedy what's happening in Gaza. But they refuse to say what they think will happen if Trump is President.

Your narcissism doesn't allow you to admit

1. You haven't listened.
2. You don't care.
3. They've said nothing will be better. You just don't care that they're willing to take a risk for Biden to do better.

I truly dont care what people vote in the primary. Its when people start advocating to not vote in the general or vote someone who isnt Biden that i start questioning.

ButteryMales posted...

Your narcissism doesn't allow you to admit

1. You haven't listened.
2. You don't care.
3. They've said nothing will be better. You just don't care that they're willing to take a risk for Biden to do better.

Again, speaking for the general, not voting in November isnt a risk for Biden to do better. How the fuck does he get better if he loses and Trump is back in?

SecretBase posted...

The people not voting are refusing because they oppose both Biden and Trump's stance. It's that simple.

Okay here's the thing. When things get worse. They better not complain.

rideshort posted...

Okay here's the thing. When things get worse. They better not complain.

If a bad president starts doing bad things I'm not sure how productive it is for anyone to remain silent on the matter.

SecretBase posted...

If a bad president starts doing bad things I'm not sure how productive it is for anyone to remain silent on the matter.

But that horrible president would be in a position of power because of people claiming to vote with their morals and they did nothing to stop it.

Complaining after the fact when you did nothing seems kind of stupid

SecretBase posted...

If a bad president starts doing bad things I'm not sure how productive it is for anyone to remain silent on the matter.

The matter of being silent on the matter is abstaining from voting. Votes are quite vocal.

Lmao, it's not enough for Beto to lose himself elections, he's taken it up on himself to lose them for others now as well.

ButteryMales posted...

Your narcissism doesn't allow you to admit

1. You haven't listened.
2. You don't care.
3. They've said nothing will be better. You just don't care that they're willing to take a risk for Biden to do better.

It's funny you think people still take you seriously. We don't. I hope that helps.

Well, if a Beto is doing that, then Im sure itll get an exorbitant amount of attention before ultimately amounting to nothing.

SecretBase posted...

Except nobody does that. People keep putting up this strawman argument that protest voters think Trump has better stances on anything.

That is not the case. The people not voting are refusing because they oppose both Biden and Trump's stance. It's that simple.

That may be, but now is not the time to not vote.
I can't in good conscience encourage any action other than lockstep opposition to Trump and the abhorrent ideological base he's running on.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Again, speaking for the general, not voting in November isnt a risk for Biden to do better. How the fuck does he get better if he loses and Trump is back in?

I'm not everyone despite the accusations.

Personally, I won't vote if Biden doesn't change. Other people have just said they'll vote/support uncommitted now and Biden when it comes.

ButteryMales posted...

I'm not everyone despite the accusations.

Personally, I won't vote if Biden doesn't change. Other people have just said they'll vote/support uncommitted now and Biden when it comes.

So as youve said before, you dont fear Trump in a position of power so you just dont care

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

But that horrible president would be in a position of power because of people claiming to vote with their morals and they did nothing to stop it.

Complaining after the fact when you did nothing seems kind of stupid

But then by that logic if they vote Biden they doubly can't complain about him, since not only did they not try to stop him, they actually helped him win.

No. If someone hates their options that's enough cause for complaint by default.

ClayGuida posted...

It's funny you think people still take you seriously. We don't. I hope that helps.

It's funny that I've repeatedly said I don't give a shit about your opinion. It's like you're a narcissist.

rideshort posted...

The matter of being silent on the matter is abstaining from voting. Votes are quite vocal.

This. Trump has a history of dehumanizing Muslims, encouraging hate when tensions are high, giving dictators a free pass, and encouraging Israel to take land from Palestine. Things are going to get so much worse if Trump has Netanyahus back for the next 4 years. Compared to electing a progressive Congress that has the leverage to push Biden. Michigan sending the most progressive people to Congress with Biden still in Oval Office will work out so much better than Trump at the helm.

ButteryMales posted...

It's funny that I've repeatedly said I don't give a shit about your opinion. It's like you're a narcissist.

Here you are addressing my opinion. But in a real uncaring way.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

So as youve said before, you dont fear Trump in a position of power so you just dont care

If I was a nihilist I wouldn't even post.

ButteryMales posted...

If I was a nihilist I wouldn't even post.

You're not posting. It's just flinging whatever sticks to smear Biden.

ClayGuida posted...

Here you are addressing my opinion. But in a real uncaring way.

There's no contradiction. A forum has other people.

mistymermaid posted...

You're not posting. It's just flinging whatever sticks to smear Biden.

So you think I care but you also think I don't care.

Stick to a position.

ButteryMales posted...

If I was a nihilist I wouldn't even post.

Have you considered becoming a nihilist?

ButteryMales posted...

There's no contradiction. A forum has other people.

Who says we aren't all alts?

ButteryMales posted...

If I was a nihilist I wouldn't even post.

But youre not bothered by project 2025 enough to vote against it

Deej posted...

Have you considered becoming a nihilist?

I really believed in nihilism so I wasn't a nihilist. I didn't believe in it so I became a nihilist again but then I believed in nihilism...

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

But youre not bothered by project 2025 enough to vote against it

There's no contradiction. I've repeatedly given reasons why Trump doesn't have unilateral power to commit genocide. There's an Executive branch, a Legislative branch which itself is split in two, a Judiciary, and 50 states with their own branches.

ButteryMales posted...

I really believed in nihilism so I wasn't a nihilist. I didn't believe in it so I became a nihilist again but then I believed in nihilism...

There's no contradiction. I've repeatedly given reasons why Trump doesn't have unilateral power to commit genocide. There's an Executive branch, a Legislative branch which itself is split in two, a Judiciary, and 50 states with their own branches.

The whole point of project 2025 is to place people who fully support Trump and the GOPs agenda in all parts of the government, and replace those who are not supporters. Youre being intentionally obtuse about what project 2025 seeks to do, and how it seeks to accomplish its goals.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Youre being intentionally obtuse

You're the one being obtuse whether intentionally or otherwise.

The purpose of separation of powers is taught to elementary school children.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Youre being intentionally obtuse about what project 2025 seeks to do

He knows, but the gish gallop will continue.

ButteryMales posted...

You're the one being obtuse whether intentionally or otherwise.

The purpose of separation of powers is taught to elementary school children.

jesus dude. The whole point of project 2025 is to put people into power who dont give a shit about separation of powers.

You clearly either dont know enough about it, or simply dont think these changes will affect you.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8PJ9yfwPccE

These are the kind of people who vote for Trump. Sigh.

ButteryMales posted...

You're the one being obtuse whether intentionally or otherwise.

The purpose of separation of powers is taught to elementary school children.

There won't BE separation of powers under the autocracy project 2025 is pushing toward.

ButteryMales posted...

The purpose of separation of powers is taught to elementary school children.

But its taught to school children the way the founders intended and not how it actually plays out. The government is supposed to be 3 branches competing for power but instead its 2 parties competing for power in 3 arenas. If the same party controls 2 branches then the checks go unused. We saw this in Trumps first 2 years when Congress refused to investigate anything. That was unfathomable to the founders, they assumed of course the leader of Congress would want to take power from the executive and give it to themselves. The teamwork aspect of parties was something they failed to imagine.