Current Events > Beto O'Rourke endorses "Uncommitted" in Michigan's Democratic primary.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

jesus dude. The whole point of project 2025 is to put people into power who dont give a shit about separation of powers.

You clearly either dont know enough about it, or simply dont think these changes will affect you.

mistymermaid posted...

There won't BE separation of powers under the autocracy project 2025 is pushing toward.

Separation of powers works whether they want it to or not. We vote on the Executive and we vote on the Legislative. Vote for a Democrat for Senator and Congress. We want 51 senators ideally.

We don't need the federal executive to stop Project 2025.

ButteryMales posted...

Separation of powers works whether they want it to or not. We vote on the Executive and we vote on the Legislative. Vote for a Democrat for Senator and Congress. We want 51 senators ideally.

We don't need the federal executive to stop Project 2025.

Until you realize we were like 4 people away from Trump currently being President right now.

ClayGuida posted...

Until you realize we were like 4 people away from Trump currently being President right now.

Trump and Pence would be in jail or dead. Pence clearly didn't think it was that easy.

ButteryMales posted...

Trump and Pence would be in jail or dead. Pence clearly didn't think it was that easy.

Sure they would. The fact remains that the bravery of a couple Secretary's of State is the only reason Trump isn't President right now.

Ron Johnson and his cronies were ready for him to give a slate of phony electors, Arizona and Georgia both rebuked Trump's claims, and Pence refused to uphold the entire proceeding. Those 4 things don't happen and Trump's currently in the white house or America burns to the ground.

But sure, tell me more about safeguards in place to defend enabling another Trump presidency.

ButteryMales posted...

Separation of powers works whether they want it to or not. We vote on the Executive and we vote on the Legislative. Vote for a Democrat for Senator and Congress. We want 51 senators ideally.

We don't need the federal executive to stop Project 2025.

Youre speaking about the same group who actively tried to disrupt the election process, and to this day still claims it was stolen. The same group who stormed the capitol during a literal insurrection. Yet you treat them like an annoyance rather than the danger they clearly are.

Youre ignorant at best.

Biden isn't above embarrassment and neither was Obama when he barely won the AR and WV primaries in 2012 as an incumbent.

If Biden losses then Americans deserve Trump so you folks better vote not crying on here how Biden sucks

ButteryMales posted...

Trump and Pence would be in jail or dead. Pence clearly didn't think it was that easy.

Lol no. Trump isn't in jail now. If Pence held up the alternate electors and said I think these are valid, the entire Republican party would go along with him and I don't know how Democrats would respond. If Pence said "there's too much uncertainty so I can't select either" then the Dems would piss and moan but they'd continue to follow the process outlined in the Constitution which says the House picks. And the House would've picked Trump.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Youre speaking about the same group who actively tried to disrupt the election process, and to this day still claims it was stolen. The same group who stormed the capitol during a literal insurrection. Yet you treat them like an annoyance rather than the danger they clearly are.

It turns out saying the Democratic process doesn't work makes MAGA not vote.

You think the moronic Trumpets are more than self-defeating?

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Youre ignorant at best.

Tell me more jokes.

The system works. If people who empathize with Palestine don't vote for Biden he could lose. If the people who don't believe the system works also don't vote for Republicans, Republicans will keep losing the Senate and House.

ButteryMales posted...

It turns out saying the Democratic process doesn't work makes MAGA not vote.

You think the moronic Trumpets are more than self-defeating?

Tell me more jokes.

The system works. If people who empathize with Palestine don't vote for Biden he could lose. If the people who don't believe the system works also don't vote for Republicans, Republicans will keep losing the Senate and House.

Youre a fool if you think the shit the republican party has been doing is harmless. I cant fucking believe you have project 2025 literally staring you right in the face and call these people self defeating.

The system works until it gets overrun by people who dont care about the rules.

ButteryMales posted...

Separation of powers works whether they want it to or not. We vote on the Executive and we vote on the Legislative. Vote for a Democrat for Senator and Congress. We want 51 senators ideally.

We don't need the federal executive to stop Project 2025.

You're underselling the danger. Imagine life once the Legislative, the Executive, and the Judicial, are purged of anyone who is not a fascist.

Asherlee10 posted...

I've noticed that people who put the laughing emoji or "lol" in their arguments tend to think they are smarter than they really are and their arguments are poorly constructed. It's cringey, because they think they are being clever, so their condescending laughter is somehow justified to them.

You should Google ad hominem arguments.

streamofthesky posted...

lol

ClayGuida posted...

lol

bfslick50 posted...

Lol

You should also apologize.

People talk about how democracy is at stake, but the thing is some people don't see the value of a democracy where they can never vote for anyone they want anyway.

I'm not particularly attached to democracy myself. I'd install my preferred politicians as dictators in a heartbeat. And to people like that the system comes off as more of an obstacle to the people they want gaining power than anything,

Biden and Trump are so far removed from what I want to see in the White House that I struggle to see any value in status quo politics. And people with this perspective need something more to motivate them than the threat of a structure they don't see as benefitting them to begin with being dismantled.

Single-party politics are even worse than the status quo.

I want more options and more input into decision making - not less.

Single party tends to collapse over time. Two party has been going for like a century.

SecretBase posted...

Single party tends to collapse over time. Two party has been going for like a century.

Either way, a dictator is the very opposite of what I'm seeking.

I favor a system where voters really have multiple options and, where practical, policy is more directly decided by the populace. (I realize it'd be inefficient to put scores of trivial matters on the ballot)

mistymermaid posted...

Single-party politics are even worse than the status quo.

I want more options and more input into decision making - not less.

Republicans have a decades lock on Supreme Court and enough small states to stop Legislature from doing anything meaningful. A Democrat president is the only thing stopping us from one party rule.

bfslick50 posted...

Republicans have a decades lock on Supreme Court and enough small states to stop Legislature from doing anything meaningful. A Democrat president is the only thing stopping us from one party rule.

What a non-sequitur.

There was a 5 - 4 split and you didn't doomer. Obama didn't stop any changes made so you need the Senate majority not the presidency.

ButteryMales posted...

What a non-sequitur.

There was a 5 - 4 split and you didn't doomer. Obama didn't stop any changes made so you need the Senate majority not the presidency.

Describing an actually conceivable doomsday scenario, is not being a doomer.

mistymermaid posted...

Describing an actually conceivable doomsday scenario, is not being a doomer.

I've been explaining why it's not actually possible.

Why don't you actually tell me why the executive matters and the Senate majority doesn't?

ButteryMales posted...

I've been explaining why it's not actually possible.

Why don't you actually tell me why the executive matters and the Senate majority doesn't?

You dont see a problem with the executive branch replacing everyone possible in the other branches with loyal followers? Including military positions?

ButteryMales posted...

I've been explaining why it's not actually possible.

Why don't you actually tell me why the executive matters and the Senate majority doesn't?

Dems could lose either or both. Republicans currently have a huge judicial safety net. Dems have nothing comparable to that. Senate is useful but executive does more.

ButteryMales posted...

Separation of powers works whether they want it to or not.

It stops working when they use violence to overthrow the government.

Which they literally already tried to do.

ButteryMales posted...

I've been explaining why it's not actually possible.

Why don't you actually tell me why the executive matters and the Senate majority doesn't?

In addition to executive powers, the president has a symbolic role. Without a Republican in the oval office, the influence of GOP senators is somewhat weakened.

Folks ITT are trying to remove the principals from the equation, but their principals is the entire reason for their position in the first place.

The thing about democracy is you have a choice, including a choice to not vote. That can't and should never be taken away. And if you believe the system set up works, then it should work regardless of who votes or who wins to keep things in check.

Of you dont believe that the system works and keeps things in check and is so easy to usurp that a f***ing broke 75 yesr old celebrity cam do it, then what are we even doing all this for???

You csnt have it both ways. If the system works, then you should have confidence it will continue to. If it doesn't work, then we need to scrap it and get a new system entirely, not try and preserve it longer until the next election when we're doing all this again.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

You dont see a problem with the executive branch replacing everyone possible in the other branches with loyal followers? Including military positions?

You don't answer questions with questions.

Question 1. I see a problem if Trump picked up a gun and started killing Senators and Congresspeople. It's not going to make him king of the United States though. It will just make him dead.

Question 2. Military chooses their own positions. Would be a constitutional crisis but it wouldn't turn out well for Trump.

bfslick50 posted...

Senate is useful but executive does more.

You need to elaborate more than that. Senate majority is why there's a 6 - 3 split on the Supreme Court. They stopped Obama from appointing Judges.

Shadow_Don posted...

It stops working when they use violence to overthrow the government.

Which they literally already tried to do.

Ashley Babbitt is dead not Mike Pence. Those cosplayers ran after the very first shot.

mistymermaid posted...

In addition to executive powers, the president has a symbolic role. Without a Republican in the oval office, the influence of GOP senators is somewhat weakened.

They were pretty adamant about stealing Supreme Court Justices.

Toonstrack posted...

Folks ITT are trying to remove the principals from the equation, but their principals is the entire reason for their position in the first place.

The thing about democracy is you have a choice, including a choice to not vote. That can't and should never be taken away. And if you believe the system set up works, then it should work regardless of who votes or who wins to keep things in check.

Of you dont believe that the system works and keeps things in check and is so easy to usurp that a f***ing broke 75 yesr old celebrity cam do it, then what are we even doing all this for???

You csnt have it both ways. If the system works, then you should have confidence it will continue to. If it doesn't work, then we need to scrap it and get a new system entirely, not try and preserve it longer until the next election when we're doing all this again.

Thats faulty logic. Any system will fail if one half of it is intentionally trying to destroy it, which is what republicans are doing. You also havent been paying attention if you think all of this started with Trump.

Trump simply went fully mask off and said what every conservative was already thinking. Theyve been trying to create a haven for white christians for a long time, and Trump winning this basically ensures it will be instituted.

Project 2025 should terrify you. This isnt a broke 75 year old man singlehandedly breaking the system in half, its a highly concentrated group effort that uses Trump as the launchpad.

ButteryMales posted...

Ashley Babbitt is dead not Mike Pence. Those cosplayers ran after the very first shot.

This is such a fucking dumb take.

We were like a handful of split second decisions away from seeing congress people murdered on live television.

ButteryMales posted...

You don't answer questions with questions.

Question 1. I see a problem if Trump picked up a gun and started killing Senators and Congresspeople. It's not going to make him king of the United States though. It will just make him dead.

Question 2. Military chooses their own positions. Would be a constitutional crisis but it wouldn't turn out well for Trump.

Damn if only Trumps lawyers werent literally arguing that presidents should be immune to all crimes.

And if its all the same to you? Id prefer we NOT have an inevitable constitutional crisis which will happen if Trump wins.

Shadow_Don posted...

This is such a fucking dumb take.

We were like a handful of split second decisions away from seeing congress people murdered on live television.

Is Ashley Babbitt dead? Did the insurrectionists run away or shot back?

Nothing dumb about saying what actually happened.

"The coup attempt wasn't a big deal because it failed!"

Yikes take

Shadow_Don posted...

"The coup attempt wasn't a big deal because it failed!"

Yikes take

You're talking to the guy who said Mitch McConnell should have been arrested for treason during the Obama administration.

Biden should be arresting Trump. Biden is spineless. You want me to vote for him.

ButteryMales posted...

You're talking to the guy who said Mitch McConnell should have been arrested for treason during the Obama administration.

Biden should be arresting Trump. Biden is spineless. You want me to vote for him.

You want Biden to jail Trump himself. No court, no trial? I fucking hate Trump but that is not the way this country works.

If you want a strongman who jails people on a whim this isnt the place for you.

ButteryMales posted...

Biden should be arresting Trump. Biden is spineless. You want me to vote for him.

So you think that nothing bad can happen with trump because separation of powers exists...

And you also want the president to arrest people?

Lmfao.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Thats faulty logic. Any system will fail if one half of it is intentionally trying to destroy it, which is what republicans are doing. You also havent been paying attention if you think all of this started with Trump.

Trump simply went fully mask off and said what every conservative was already thinking. Theyve been trying to create a haven for white christians for a long time, and Trump winning this basically ensures it will be instituted.

Project 2025 should terrify you. This isnt a broke 75 year old man singlehandedly breaking the system in half, its a highly concentrated group effort that uses Trump as the launchpad.

Something like this. While nobody questions that aspects of the system are faulty, severely so, history has shown talk of "revolution", "secession", or similar, must be taken with grave caution.

Oppressors already split the country in two before, Confederate leaders openly promoted enslavement.
The stakes are much greater today. People with comparable views aren't content with splintering into a new nation, they marched on the capitol to outright overthrow the government in Trump's name.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

You want Biden to jail Trump himself. No court, no trial? I fucking hate Trump but that is not the way this country works.

If you want a strongman who jails people on a whim this isnt the place for you.

Shadow_Don posted...

So you think that nothing bad can happen with trump because separation of powers exists...

And you also want the president to arrest people?

Lmfao.

It makes perfect sense that you both don't know what the Executive branch does. The Department of Justice is under the Executive branch.

ButteryMales posted...

It makes perfect sense that you both don't know what the Executive branch does. The Department of Justice is under the Executive branch.

That doesn't mean the president can order people to be arrested genius.

ButteryMales posted...

It makes perfect sense that you both don't know what the Executive branch does. The Department of Justice is under the Executive branch.

Ah yes Biden can simply order Garland to arrest Trump and its instantly done. Again, no trial, no court, just straight to jail.

Shadow_Don posted...

That doesn't mean the president can order people to be arrested genius.

Not for lack of trying. Conservatives want Trump to swoop in and do something like send (Obama, Hilary, Biden, Pelosi, or whoever they're crying about at a given moment) to Guantanamo.

Shadow_Don posted...

That doesn't mean the president can order people to be arrested genius.

Trump did it and Julian Assange isn't even American. Right now Biden can drop the extradition without a pardon just with the powers of the Executive.

Toonstrack posted...

Folks ITT are trying to remove the principals from the equation, but their principals is the entire reason for their position in the first place.

The thing about democracy is you have a choice, including a choice to not vote. That can't and should never be taken away. And if you believe the system set up works, then it should work regardless of who votes or who wins to keep things in check.

Of you dont believe that the system works and keeps things in check and is so easy to usurp that a f***ing broke 75 yesr old celebrity cam do it, then what are we even doing all this for???

You csnt have it both ways. If the system works, then you should have confidence it will continue to. If it doesn't work, then we need to scrap it and get a new system entirely, not try and preserve it longer until the next election when we're doing all this again.

Great point, I hadn't thought that far.

Project 2025 is just project 2029 and 2033 and so on until it happens, since Republicans aren't just going to lose every single presidential election for eternity.

SecretBase posted...

Great point, I hadn't thought that far.

Project 2025 is just project 2029 and 2033 and so on until it happens, since Republicans aren't just going to lose every single presidential election for eternity.

You havent much thought at all if youre still making posts like this. Project 2025s goal is to make it so that Republicans keep their power. You still dont understand the implications.

wait maybe i misread this. are you suggesting that its just gonna happen eventually no matter what so we might as well do nothing

SecretBase posted...

Great point, I hadn't thought that far.

Project 2025 is just project 2029 and 2033 and so on until it happens, since Republicans aren't just going to lose every single presidential election for eternity.

Says the doomer.

ButteryMales posted...

Trump did it and Julian Assange isn't even American.

Yea trump did a lot of crazy, unethical, and illegal shit while he was president.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

You havent much thought at all if youre still making posts like this. Project 2025s goal is to make it so that Republicans keep their power. You still dont understand the implications.

They just won the House though. They only didn't win bigger because the SC overturned Roe and Trump got shitty election deniers nominated. They don't need any projects to retain power, they just need outside actors to stop shooting them in the foot.

Shadow_Don posted...

Yea trump did a lot of crazy, unethical, and illegal shit while he was president.

I thought we agreed Trump committed insurrection? It would be sane, ethical, and legal for Biden to go after Trump and leave Jullian Assange alone.

ButteryMales posted...

I thought we agreed Trump committed insurrection? It would be sane, ethical, and legal for Biden to go after Trump and leave Jullian Assange alone.

Is trump not literally on trial for inciting insurrection

ButteryMales posted...

I thought we agreed Trump committed insurrection? It would be sane, ethical, and legal for Biden to go after Trump

You do understand that Trump is facing a criminal trial for the insurrection right?

Am I free to vote uncommitted and not for Biden then?