Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 8: Topic 3 (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The only really bad teleporting was Littlefinger when they had him all over the place for show only stuff and Melisandre going to the Brotherhood without Banners to get Gendry because Edric Storm doesn't exist in the show.
---

Mewtwo59 posted...

The only really bad teleporting was Littlefinger when they had him all over the place for show only stuff and Melisandre going to the Brotherhood without Banners to get Gendry because Edric Storm doesn't exist in the show.

What about Varys teleporting to Essos at the end of s6 to join Dany?
---

Oh right, I forgot about that one. That's pretty bad too.
---

Anagram posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

The only really bad teleporting was Littlefinger when they had him all over the place for show only stuff and Melisandre going to the Brotherhood without Banners to get Gendry because Edric Storm doesn't exist in the show.

What about Varys teleporting to Essos at the end of s6 to join Dany?

That was the most blatant teleport ever
It made me laugh out loud when it happened
---

Nanis23 posted...

That was the most blatant teleport ever
It made me laugh out loud when it happened

Yeah same here

Speaking of Varys, I've never been on the "Varys is gonna die" train, but after last episode... Yeesh

At this point, I kind of want to say Dany finds out about Varys' plotting, executes him, and that's what makes Tyrion finally turn against her
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

martin became obsessed with logistics and small details that make it impossible to tell a story.

AGOT and ASOS relied heavily on coincidence and stuff happening off screen and yes, fast travel. in AFFC and ADWD martin expands the world, gets rid of fast travel, and insists on having POVs for everything that happens, even if it is off screen/the active agents are not POV characters

This is what I was trying to get at. He clearly fell in love with exploring the universe he created instead of the story he was writing. He obviously gave D&D the basic outline of his ending, he knows the gist of it, he just doesn't wanna write it. At least that is how it seems to me. Could be being too generous towards him I suppose.

varys traveled for a month off-screen. it wasn't great editing, but the dornish ships are there, meaning he went there with all those boats
---

The only one that felt really bad to me this episode was going from dany and everyone washing up on the beach to varys and Tyrion in the throne room talking. Just seems like after such a big defeat that getting out of there would have been more difficult than they showed.
---

Johnbobb posted...

At this point, I kind of want to say Dany finds out about Varys' plotting, executes him, and that's what makes Tyrion finally turn against her

I wouldn't be able to handle such a horrible end to Varys.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

AGOT and ASOS relied heavily on coincidence and stuff happening off screen and yes, fast travel.

What?

Catelyn Stark spends MULTIPLE chapters travelling from Riverrun back up to the Twins before the Red Wedding. No fast travel at all.

I know because I had to sit through that misery from her point of view while waiting in anticipation.
---

Yeah, I think the teleporting would be less noticeable if the first two seasons didn't follow the book logic of detailing how long it takes to travel. There are entire episodes early on where characters just walk around.
---

If you like characters walking around, try West Wing!
---

I am allowing the fast travel now because literally who cares, let's get this shit wrapped up. If you want to watch people walk from King's Landing to Winterfell and back again then like

why
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

If you like characters walking around, try West Wing!

Get a great cardio work out working in this office.
---

ExThaNemesis posted...

Catelyn Stark spends MULTIPLE chapters travelling from Riverrun back up to the Twins before the Red Wedding. No fast travel at all.

But notice how few chapters by comparison it takes Ned and Robert to get to King's Landing from Winterfell, and Catlyn basically teleports to KL to talk to Littlefinger before taking forever to get back north.

It isn't "it takes a long time to travel, so events happen to the characters" but "certain events need to happen during the traveling period."
---

---

Ok but the issue isn't if it happens or not, actually.

The issue is that if its noticeable or not.

If its noticeable enough for someone to have to stop and go "Wait, how does this make sense?" It's breaking suspension of disbelief and is a big issue, because it takes you out of the story and reminds you its just a story while you're trying to be absorbed in it.

The books might have it a few times, but it happens so little and so innocuously that its not noticeable, and ESPECIALLY not noticeable consistently.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But notice how few chapters by comparison it takes Ned and Robert to get to King's Landing from Winterfell, and Catlyn basically teleports to KL to talk to Littlefinger before taking forever to get back north.

It isn't "it takes a long time to travel, so events happen to the characters" but "certain events need to happen during the traveling period."

yup, these. also, stannis goes from dragonstone to the wall off screen and tywin saves the blackwater off screen.

the characters who get stuck in the riverlands for endless chapters are there because shitty stuff happens/martin just wants to dwell there
---

I will say the show doesn't communicate the passage of time well so it is hard to say what is actually nonsensical vs justified but confusing (like Varys).

If only they had a cool map or something they could use to represent traveling and time progressing
---

The episode had some good stuff, the opening bit until Dany leaves Winterfell, the Tyrion/Varys convos, but some stuff really irked me.

Ghost's farewell being half-assed (likely due to budget), Euron's fleet out of nowhere/Dany not seeing them/Rhaegar's death and the whole final scene (Cercei could have just killed them all right there and have been done with it, it was kind of out of character) were all problems I had with the episode that really dragged it down.

3 > 2 > 1 >>> 4. Definitely the weakest episode so far.
---

Yeah after showing open aggression by killing Missandei, there's absolutely no reason why Cersei wouldn't then have Tyrion turned into a pin cushion and have her ballistas all fire at Dany while her guard was down.

But oh well.
---

Jesus, the IMDB rating for S8E04 may not even stay above a 6 at this pace. People are pissed.
---

TheCodeisBosco posted...

Jesus, the IMDB rating for S8E04 may not even stay above a 6 at this pace. People are pissed.

Legit clueless about internet outrage nonsense, what are people even upset about?
---

It was a really good episode...wtf are people pissed about?
---

Sounds like different people are upset about different things. Dany fans mad that Mad Queen is super obviously happening now, people upset they killed a black character, people upset about Sansa trivializing her abuse or something, people upset about the Jon/Ghost treatment, people upset about Brienne crying over a man, etc...
---

mnkboy907 posted...

Yeah after showing open aggression by killing Missandei, there's absolutely no reason why Cersei wouldn't then have Tyrion turned into a pin cushion and have her ballistas all fire at Dany while her guard was down.

But oh well.

If she aims the ballistas at the army, they are immediately torched by Drogon

And Drogon has projectile-dodging Matrix skills unlike her other two dragons so if they open fire on him theres a very real chance they still get torched.

I honestly didnt see a problem with this, though it LOOKS super goofy with Daenerys's tiny-ass army.
---

What annoyed me most of all was how bad the CGI was when it showed Ghost towards the end of that scene. He was so obviously...not really there.
---

Espeon posted...

Quote

The ending of the season has leaked. The three fairly large GoT subreddits all hate it and are mad. I think part of the mass downvoting is because of that.

But like was said above it is part of a perfect storm where multiple groups are mad for different reasons.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

What annoyed me most of all was how bad the CGI was when it showed Ghost towards the end of that scene. He was so obviously...not really there.

dude he's a frigging ghost
---

Suprak the Stud posted...

The ending of the season has leaked. The three fairly large GoT subreddits all hate it and are mad. I think part of the mass downvoting is because of that.

I don't think there's any possible way this could have ended well. There's no completely satisfying ending. Especially with Thrones, where so many want, say, Dany on the throne and it's become so tribal that anything short of her winning and being queen would be "bad writing", rather than just a result they disagree with. And vice-versa, too - some hate her so much that her winning would also be "bad writing".
---

Jon having a dragon melt the throne and dismantle the 7 kingdoms into autonomous states is probably the only satisfying end thematically at this point.

Either that or Cersei "winning" because she kept her eye on the prize, but they would still need to do a better job building to that in the last 2 episodes.
---

The finale is going to be a CYOA like Netflix is doing. Everyone can write their own ending.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

The ending of the season has leaked. The three fairly large GoT subreddits all hate it and are mad. I think part of the mass downvoting is because of that.

I don't think there's any possible way this could have ended well. There's no completely satisfying ending. Especially with Thrones, where so many want, say, Dany on the throne and it's become so tribal that anything short of her winning and being queen would be "bad writing", rather than just a result they disagree with. And vice-versa, too - some hate her so much that her winning would also be "bad writing".

Yep! I don't even know the ending either - I've just seen angry posts on all three subs about how this ruins GRRM's vision and its like a fanfic and blah blah blah on and on like that without specifics about the actual ending.

However, like you said, I can guarantee that no matter what the ending was, people would say that. At this point there are three likely endings I can see based on how the last episode set up. And with any of them, I would imagine exactly this response. For two of them (Jon wins alone and rules/walks away or Dany wins alone and rules justly/unjustly) you would have about half of the fandom mad because they were pulling from the other character and this scene from season 4 episode 6 shows that this character was supposed to win and D&D don't know what they're doing. For the other (Jon and Dany rule together although this is less likely based on what just happened in episode 4) you would have probably the same amount of people mad because the show was getting a "happy ending" and it is out of line with the tone of the show up to this point.

And of course, option 4 is none of the above. It which case you would have a "but GRRM set it up this way and you're just being different to be shocking this is bad" reaction from the fanbase too. Imagine the Arya killing the Night King reaction but magnified 100 fold because it is the final ending with nothing after it to look forward to.

There is no good ending for them at this point. Either a character that people love and has been built up for eight seasons is about to get an unhappy end, characters will get a happy end and people will complain it is not in line with the show, or WILDCARD BITCHES and people will likely complain anyway.

Like I said I don't know any specifics and don't care to. But "people will be mad" was the outcome I was assuming since the season began tbqh.
---

Didn't GRRM literally tell them how to end the series? Like I've heard it repeated time and again that he told them the ending so the show would at least have that, if not all the stuff leading up to it.
---

Xiahou Shake posted...

Didn't GRRM literally tell them how to end the series? Like I've heard it repeated time and again that he told them the ending so the show would at least have that, if not all the stuff leading up to it.

yup.

theoretically we're still in for at least one more "holy shit" moment from GRRM, too
---

Suprak the Stud posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

The ending of the season has leaked. The three fairly large GoT subreddits all hate it and are mad. I think part of the mass downvoting is because of that.

I don't think there's any possible way this could have ended well. There's no completely satisfying ending. Especially with Thrones, where so many want, say, Dany on the throne and it's become so tribal that anything short of her winning and being queen would be "bad writing", rather than just a result they disagree with. And vice-versa, too - some hate her so much that her winning would also be "bad writing".

Yep! I don't even know the ending either - I've just seen angry posts on all three subs about how this ruins GRRM's vision and its like a fanfic and blah blah blah on and on like that without specifics about the actual ending.

However, like you said, I can guarantee that no matter what the ending was, people would say that. At this point there are three likely endings I can see based on how the last episode set up. And with any of them, I would imagine exactly this response. For two of them (Jon wins alone and rules/walks away or Dany wins alone and rules justly/unjustly) you would have about half of the fandom mad because they were pulling from the other character and this scene from season 4 episode 6 shows that this character was supposed to win and D&D don't know what they're doing. For the other (Jon and Dany rule together although this is less likely based on what just happened in episode 4) you would have probably the same amount of people mad because the show was getting a "happy ending" and it is out of line with the tone of the show up to this point.

And of course, option 4 is none of the above. It which case you would have a "but GRRM set it up this way and you're just being different to be shocking this is bad" reaction from the fanbase too. Imagine the Arya killing the Night King reaction but magnified 100 fold because it is the final ending with nothing after it to look forward to.

There is no good ending for them at this point. Either a character that people love and has been built up for eight seasons is about to get an unhappy end, characters will get a happy end and people will complain it is not in line with the show, or WILDCARD BITCHES and people will likely complain anyway.

Like I said I don't know any specifics and don't care to. But "people will be mad" was the outcome I was assuming since the season began tbqh.

So Cersei wins is so unlikely it just gets lumped in with all the other WILDCARD endings?

Also, this is the real reason GRRM hasnt finished the books!
---

I don't know the very ending but I think it's very likely that Cersei will kill Jamie, and that will definitely piss people off

Xiahou Shake posted...

Didn't GRRM literally tell them how to end the series? Like I've heard it repeated time and again that he told them the ending so the show would at least have that, if not all the stuff leading up to it.

I thought they specifically went in a direction away from that, to leave his ending for the books
---

Didn't they say there is another "Red Wedding moment" this season?

It has to be next episode, right?
---

foolm0r0n posted...

I don't know the very ending but I think it's very likely that Cersei will kill Jamie, and that will definitely piss people off

Xiahou Shake posted...

Didn't GRRM literally tell them how to end the series? Like I've heard it repeated time and again that he told them the ending so the show would at least have that, if not all the stuff leading up to it.

I thought they specifically went in a direction away from that, to leave his ending for the books

This. I'm pretty sure GRRM said that the endings will be different.
---

Samurai7 posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

I don't know the very ending but I think it's very likely that Cersei will kill Jamie, and that will definitely piss people off

Xiahou Shake posted...

Didn't GRRM literally tell them how to end the series? Like I've heard it repeated time and again that he told them the ending so the show would at least have that, if not all the stuff leading up to it.

I thought they specifically went in a direction away from that, to leave his ending for the books

This. I'm pretty sure GRRM said that the endings will be different.

No. The current story is that the main plot points will be the same, but the endings for secondary characters (who knows how they are defining those) could be quite different.
---

I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM changed his ending based on A. Reception and B. For shock value.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Didn't they say there is another "Red Wedding moment" this season?

It has to be next episode, right?

They were talking about Jorah dying lol
---

I dunno. Articles I'm reading say the secondary characters will be completely different and that there will be 'some deviations' whatever that means.
---

i would be absolutely shocked if ASOIAF were finished by GRRM. i legitimately don't think we'll get winds of winter before 2021.
---

foolm0r0n posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Didn't they say there is another "Red Wedding moment" this season?

It has to be next episode, right?

They were talking about Jorah dying lol

lol
---

Nrrr posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

martin became obsessed with logistics and small details that make it impossible to tell a story.

AGOT and ASOS relied heavily on coincidence and stuff happening off screen and yes, fast travel. in AFFC and ADWD martin expands the world, gets rid of fast travel, and insists on having POVs for everything that happens, even if it is off screen/the active agents are not POV characters

This is what I was trying to get at. He clearly fell in love with exploring the universe he created instead of the story he was writing. He obviously gave D&D the basic outline of his ending, he knows the gist of it, he just doesn't wanna write it. At least that is how it seems to me. Could be being too generous towards him I suppose.

He has flat out said he cant make the next book work based on problems he created in the previous books. He calls them knots and has said multiple times he cant untangle it.
---

I feel like if he could get himself to Cersei Play of the Game it would make things a whole lot easier but he definitely has the books in a bad place right now.

But getting there is going to be a pain in the ass and he expanded Dorne. Dorne in the show is cringey and Dorne in the books is boring.

I'm in the we'll never get Winds of Winter camp.

Maniac64 posted...

Nrrr posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

martin became obsessed with logistics and small details that make it impossible to tell a story.

AGOT and ASOS relied heavily on coincidence and stuff happening off screen and yes, fast travel. in AFFC and ADWD martin expands the world, gets rid of fast travel, and insists on having POVs for everything that happens, even if it is off screen/the active agents are not POV characters

This is what I was trying to get at. He clearly fell in love with exploring the universe he created instead of the story he was writing. He obviously gave D&D the basic outline of his ending, he knows the gist of it, he just doesn't wanna write it. At least that is how it seems to me. Could be being too generous towards him I suppose.

He has flat out said he cant make the next book work based on problems he created in the previous books. He calls them knots and has said multiple times he cant untangle it.

I mean I already mentioned this before and don't disagree, but the idea he had no vision is absurd. He just fucked up his vision and now doesn't really care about it.

Oh yeah he definitely had a vision at one time. It just got lost along the way or at least the path there did.
---

how mad would people be if the person to kill Cersei was an escaped Ellaria Sand
---