Lurker > azuarc

Mr Lasastryke posted...

what IS your stance on licensed music? could i nominate out of touch by hall & oates because it was used in GTA: vice city?

No. Not hardly. Music that is truly licensed is always going to get nixed. But that rule has traditionally extended to any song that was released in a format other than the game first. Using my argument above, this rule certainly prevents type II errors (letting in songs that clearly don't belong), I'm willing to make some allowance for type I errors (wrongly banning a decent song).

So if someone were to, oh, I don't know, maybe nominate a song that's otherwise unknown, but just happens to have been published by some nameless artist, I might decide not to open up an inquiry into the matter on my own. Because, you see, I generally trust the folks here to have an understanding of what should and should not be eligible for the contest and to police themselves rather than making me approve of everything. Hint, hint. Still, if something is questioned, then at least everyone knows the standard they're going to be held to.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

10-3
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

FL81 posted...

My point was, we're going to need some sort of guideline to differentiate eligible "full versions" from extended OST remixes (e.g. official licensed arrangements)

As long as it's clear I'd be all for this change

And that's where the difficulty comes in, which is why after I reopened this debate last year, it still feels unsettled.

I wrote a really long reply here explaining my feelings, which I didn't post because it felt like I was talking down to people who already understand the issue. My personal intuition is that admitting anything that doesn't appear in the actual game is setting a bad precedent. People have tossed the phrase "slippery slope" around a bit, but it certainly applies here. Exceptions, in general, tend to give rise to more exceptions...and requests for exemptions that are potentially undeserved. It's a classic case of giving an inch and taking a foot.

So while I'm not unreasonable to listening to counterarguments, my personal belief is that the best line to draw is to continue to ask, "Does it appear in-game?" I realize there could be more relaxed standards on the matter, but the problem is that they wouldn't be standards. There's absolutely no way to quantify or evaluate this issue other than by a strict yes/no question, and unless someone has an idea I've missed, the only one that we can ask that won't create a Type II error (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors) is the evaluation of whether or not it's actually in the game.

So yes, it's a headache forcing people to justify their nomination. Yes, there are also situations that arise that are a little gray. And yes, it could be argued we're creating type I errors instead. (I'm inclined to disagree in most cases.) But this is the official word unless someone manages to convince me to overturn the matter, noting that we went through this entire debacle last year as well. It's not that I like using this standard, but if you aren't in favor, then give me a viable alternative. Something that doesn't force me to spend an hour on each objection, and pronounce some kind of moderately subjective ruling.

Don't get me wrong -- inclusion is always better than exclusion. I've taken a fairly relaxed stance on the matter of licensed music, even though that situation suffers from the same thorns that this one does, and the consequences of opening the door too wide are far greater. I want there to be a less Draconian standard. I just don't see one that works.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

th3l3fty posted...

I just searched for it and the right song appears more than 10 times on page 1 alone

so uh

Well, I wasn't the first person who couldn't find it.

Mac Arrowny posted...

azuarc posted...

Is the version that appears in Sacred II not the full version?

The game version is kinda like a concert section that just has the part where they're singing. There's an intro and outro to the song on the album version.

Guess I've just never listened to the studio version before. The game cut is like 6 minutes long to begin with. But listening to the studio version, they're definitely different mixes. (There's no doubt about the in-game concert's eligibility, btw. Sacred 2 released in 2008, and Blind Guardian's album released in 2010.)
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

There are six rares I do not have duplicates of. (One of them is MCT, incidentally.) However, I do not have a single copy of Lightwell.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Radiohead has more than one song? I mean, as bizarre as it sounds, I can name more Radiohead albums than I can name songs.

Then The Morning Comes is not a song I've ever heard of, so I can't give that much credence. The other song you're looking for, however, is Walkin On the Sun. Not sure how you missed that since it's the first song and it charted to #1.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Haste_2 posted...

NFUN posted...

please share?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtm-5nTauRmEpXWnLK8Shr-LMaN1pGPl9

Three or four are missing, though, because I couldn't find them on Youtube.

Higurashi 8 - You Destructive -
Metal Slug 5 - Windy Day -
The Ninja Warriors - Daddy Mulk - or are both the correct version, I think
Tales of the Abyss - Meaning of Birth -

You Destructive was a pain to find. Don't know why it didn't come up on regular YouTube searches.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

FL81 posted...

mfw full version of Sacred Worlds will be VGMC eligible if this passes

Is the version that appears in Sacred II not the full version?
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

That was really well done.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Naye745 posted...

because i agree that the game "strategy" is generally solvable.

This is the only reason why the dice-rolling mechanic isn't absolutely terrible.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Just beat a jade druid as control lock by holding a Twisting Nether, destroying his deck when he had 8 cards left (and at least 1 idol in his hand), and then watching him overextend on his idols while I kept carefully doling out my voidlords and cubes. I wiped a board of jades 13-17, and finished a second set of seals to finally finish things off.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Sure, in 1987. How many times has anyone listened to it since?

And then I look at the YouTube video of it, which has 49 million views.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

KokoroAkechi posted...

Shu has Bao right? Everyone seems to hate her, but I think she's cute.

I do think she's cute, but in the same way that watching a video of the Spice Girls was great provided you hit the mute button.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Airship_Canon posted...

2 or 288.
Just 2 or just 288 is wrong, since the way it's written results in having both answers be correct.

Sorta.
2 is the "more" correct, since multiplication between x(y) is "higher priority" than x*y, thusly, it means the entirety of 2(9+3) is the denominator.

http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm

The general consensus among math people is that "multiplication by juxtaposition" (that is, multiplying by just putting things next to each other, rather than using the "" sign) indicates that the juxtaposed values must be multiplied together before processing other operations.

I've seen people who have tried to argue this, but I've never seen anyone put it forth formally as an objection to just M/D, left-to-right. At the very least, if you put this into any computer or calculator, it's going to give you 288. The only time I'm going to accept that being against parentheses is higher priority than using an operator is when those parentheses are part of a function. Obviously f(x) does not mean f * x.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

NFUN posted...

Lolo_Guru posted...

azuarc posted...

Lolo_Guru posted...

PEMDAS, as mentioned before, stands for

1) Parentheses
2) Exponents
3) Multiplication and Division: They have the same priority, therefore you simply go through the problem from left to right and do them in that order.
4) Addition and Subtraction: (same thing as M & D above)

wut dat? u hav math digree or somethin?

I do.

No, I just tutored basic math at college.

he's being sarcastic

What gave it away?
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Mr Lasastryke posted...

together forever was really big. obviously youngsters who only know rick astley from the memes won't know it but yeah.

There probably aren't too many folks on B8 older than I am, tbh. Certainly not by an appreciable margin, anyway.

I think it's one thing to say that you had songs 20+ years ago, and another to say that you have them now. In Living Colour had songs other than Cult of Personality. Faith No More had songs other than Epic. That doesn't mean anyone other than fans remember them, though.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Lolo_Guru posted...

PEMDAS, as mentioned before, stands for

1) Parentheses
2) Exponents
3) Multiplication and Division: They have the same priority, therefore you simply go through the problem from left to right and do them in that order.
4) Addition and Subtraction: (same thing as M & D above)

wut dat? u hav math digree or somethin?

I do.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

So I still need a 70's song. Fine, I'll just toss a pile of songs at you. Take any of the below...

Blue Oyster Cult - Godzilla
The Doors - Peace Frog
Queen - Seven Seas of Rhye
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Gimme Three Steps
Deep Purple - Highway Star
David Bowie - Suffragette City
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Lolo_Guru posted...

48/2*(9+3)
48/2*(12)
24*(12)
288

you're welcome

*gasp*

no wai! I tought it was 2!!1!1! y u no multipli by teh 12 1st??
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

kateee posted...

- change Vanille English voice

I'm not sure this would be enough to salvage the character for me, but it'd be a start, I suppose.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Paratroopa1 posted...

and it means basically never trading because trading with someone when it's not your turn is almost strictly suboptimal to do.

In my experience, it usually means getting the only copy of brick (or wood) you'll ever get in the early game.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

bump
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Play2Win, scrubs.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Earlier, I can do. How much, I don't know, but I certainly could have been on sooner than I was. I kinda forgot this was gonna be a thing, and then randomly popped into discord and saw it going, and thought, shit...

I was working until 4, iirc, though I doubt I would want to start the instant I got home.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Ultimaphazon posted...

- death of the controlled character =/= Game Over

This, too.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

azuarc posted...

Double stuffed is disgusting. It's like eating a cake that has no cake and all icing.

but it's actually just the same cake with a little extra icing

It's all about proportions. Icing is pretty gross by itself.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

LiquidOshawott posted...

Rick Astley is a one hit wonder

FTFY.

Supposedly he had another top hit with a song called Together Forever, but I just listened to it and I've never heard that song before.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Lightning is fine, other than being a female Cloud with a taste of Squall's "...whatever."

* Remove Vanille. (I'll tolerate Hope.)
* Stop head-hopping in the narrative.
* Give the player meaningful choices to make in the first 20 hours of the game.
* Give the player the ability to influence their characters' development, ever.
* Delinearize the story, or write the characters so they're actual people. (Sazh is okay.)
* Remove all the stupid flashbacks. We don't care.
* Explain the world in a way that makes sense, with meaningful terms, within the actual gameplay.
* Create an antagonist who makes sense.
* Add side characters we can actually interact with.
* Don't make us wait until chapter 11 to experience the actual game.
* Don't hide the best items behind a wall of synthesizing.
* Let the player have better control over the flow of battle beyond just changing paradigms.
* Don't put your characters -- especially your strong female hardened soldier -- in a fucking Louis Vuitton ad.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

I used to have a list like that. The closest I have now is https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW9O9mntH1REcewWXPUiKKRW-cg0MOw3C though.

Fair warning, I'm probably gonna clean out some of my old playlists, so if you want those, you might want to copy them.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Double stuffed is disgusting. It's like eating a cake that has no cake and all icing.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

kateee posted...

damn it

if only i was a hot girl

---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Haste_2 posted...

I haven't participated a whole lot in these contests, but I went and created a playlist with every single one of the retirees. Maybe only 40 of them I'm already familiar with, so I'm excited to be exposed to a crapload of video game music! I only listened to like 10 seconds of each one, but a lot of them sounded really good....

Here's last year's bracket, minus two songs: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW9O9mntH1RFteVUCpIsmLHRwqLStaQJD
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

SeabassDebeste posted...

Bonus question - What would you say was your gateway game? Or first eurogame? Do you still like it?

Depends on what you mean by gateway. I played a ton of board games as a kid, but I'm sure you don't want Hi Ho Cherry-o or Cootie as the answer. OTOH, I played a lot of classic-era adult games, too, like Trivial Pursuit, Scrabble, etc. Before I left home, I had played a bunch of unusual or niche games like Scotland Yard, Hotels, and a pretty cool game my friend had based on Buck Rodgers, but I remember being intrigued by all these games I had never heard of when I got to college. Settlers is probably the closest answer to what you're looking for.

And yes, I still like Settlers.

Hint for #66 - This game's name is more or less synonymous with hobby gaming in pop culture

That could also be settlers.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

MysticBrohan posted...

was Half-Truism not a big Offspring song? i always thought it was but maybe i just assumed that

Nope. Don't even think it was a single. I like it, but I'm also an Offspring fan. (I could have written a longer list than the one I did above, but some of the singles I know of just never did anything.)Underleveled posted...

Oldies example - Dion (The Wanderer vs. Runaround Sue)

Never heard of Dion, but it makes me think of Dio, as in Ronny James. I'm sure he had other hits in his day, but all I can think of are Holy Diver and Rainbow in the Dark.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Mr Lasastryke posted...

don't think there are more than 3 zappa songs "everyone knows," though, and even 3 is generous. valley girl is the obvious one, but how many people are there really who know peaches and dancin' fool?

I know Montana and whatever the one about yellow snow is called.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

TheRock1525 posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

I'm struggling to think of any other musician who has exactly two hit songs that people are generally divided on - and nothing else.

Offspring?

Wow....just...what?

Come Out and Play
Self Esteem
Gotta Get Away
Gone Away
All I Want
I Choose
Pretty Fly For a White Guy
The Kids Aren't Alright
She's Got Issues
Why Don't You Get a Job?
Original Prankster
Want You Bad
Hit That
Can't Get My Head Around You
Hammerhead
You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Days Go By

yeah, totally only two songs. You gonna claim people only know two songs from Pearl Jam next?
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

NFUN posted...

The "standard" spread is 12 "Easy" songs, 12 "Medium" songs, 12 Hard songs and 4 Impossible songs.

Might have been nice to know that. =x
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

SmartMuffin posted...

Presidents of the United States of America

Lump and Peaches? I'll give you that one.

The rest I couldn't name more than one song for.

BOC: Don't Fear the Reaper, Burnin' For You
Eve 6: Inside Out (aka Rendezvous), Here's to the Night
Dido: White Flag, Thank You
Finger Eleven: One Thing, Paralyzer

Bloodhound Gang has (at least) two songs, but I guess the public isn't really divided on it since almost everyone thinks of The Bad Touch first and foremost.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Simoun posted...

I never said I hated Fluxx or Tix to Ride. I just think that there is more to boardgaming than these 2. I hate people who love these and refuse to play anything else.

That's fine, and I understand that. But you said Fluxx was bottom of the barrel and Ticket was "gay ol' Ticket to Ride." How am I supposed to infer anything other than that you're pissing on the games themselves, rather than the people who enjoy them?
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

jcgamer107 posted...

....they do literally look almost exactly the same.....wtf....

especially if you just compare the first photos.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

SmartMuffin posted...

I'm struggling to think of any other musician who has exactly two hit songs that people are generally divided on - and nothing else.

Presidents of the United States of America
Bloodhound Gang
Blue Oyster Cult
Eve 6
Dido
Finger Eleven

Ultimate's got to be Filter, though. Hey Man Nice Shot vs Take a Picture? Talk about two extremes.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

NFUN posted...

Pepper

That's Butthole Surfers.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

ExThaNemesis posted...

It worked only slightly better.

IDK why I'm having such a hard time waking with my alarm.

That song doesn't have a very attention-getting beginning, so it's only slightly better than using something soothing like Besaid.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

tazzyboyishere posted...

Just like it to only one nomination to be eligible for phase 2 and give people 15 to work with so the field isn't bloated. Then, in phase 2, people can give support to 15 more aside from their own.

15 per person in phase 1 would be very bloated. At least, as it is, some people don't nominate and only support stuff, so you probably don't have an average of 15 per user. If anything, I'd say 10. (The number in phase 2 can be almost anything, so I don't care if that were to be a relatively large number.)

The other problem, if you want to call it that, of the two-phase system is that people have very little feedback on what's going to do well. This was the main objection I heard the year we did that. Users are used to being able to adjust if their nominations are bombing. If you nominate the wrong song from a new game, you've completely squandered your opportunity to represent it.

Now, granted, that's arguably just the price of doing business. Other board contests simply give you one or maybe two picks and that's all you get, and if they do poorly in the actual contest, sucks to be you. So I'm not saying that I give a ton of weight to this argument, but it is going to be the primary complaint others raise.

From my perspective, the problems with two-tier is that it creates a lot of additional administrative overhead, and it prolongs the nomination process considerably. Some people just aren't interested in sticking around through two phases of nominations, or they miss phase 1 and then are unhappy they can't propose their own selections or whatever.

I am not fighting the idea of a two-phase nomination process, if that proves to be a popular enough idea. I just want to make sure all the cards are on the table.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Mega Mana posted...

Wow, that takes me back.

Anyway, if we're going to do non-VGM songs, why not just use Chop Suey! ?
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Sigh, you had to go there. They look about the same, TBH.

11-4
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Simoun posted...

I've fallen into the common trap of being very interested in 2 bottom-of-the-barrel boardgames Fluxx and Munchkin back when there really wasn't any other option save for gay ol' Ticket to Ride. Fluxx is fun for awhiles and Munchkin is just broken once you realize how stupid it really is a few games in.

And this is why I'll never be able to follow topics like these. Fluxx isn't my first go-to by a longshot, but it's enjoyable for a quick finisher, and Ticket to Ride is great. Next, you'll say Settlers is terrible because you're hipster like that. Meanwhile, Qwirkle is the first game on the list that I've so much as seen in a store, let alone played.

Agree completely on Munchkin, though. The designers created it with making silly cards in mind more than actually achieving game balance.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

davidponte posted...

Murloc Paladin essentially loses if you board clear after Call to Arms. But with this build, you can Call to Arms on 4, get your board cleared, then play Stand Against Darkness on 5 to fill your board, which you can then Tarim, adapt, or buff next turn.

There was one game that I somehow won after getting hit with two Defiles and two Hellfires in the first 7 turns.

As the warlock player, I had a guy that I board-cleared twice and he still overran me on turn 8 because I hadn't banked on him having double call to arms so soon. No Divine Favor; he just drew exceedingly well, and I died with two 9s and two 10s in my hand.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

KCF0107 posted...

trdl23 posted...

KCF0107 posted...

I hope to get nominations in early or I will likely have no chance of getting any songs in.

This is exactly why I liked the two-tier system better. I feel like this aspect got mitigated a bit.

Yeah, it's too bad we only used that format once

And I liked it explicitly for this reason. But for every person who liked it, there was someone who hated it. Plus, the existence of two tiers tended to confuse or disappoint people if they came along later.

So I guess the real question is, what can we do to ensure that people with nominations that aren't on page 1 get a fair shake? I mean, i could do something like limit the number of noms you can use on day 1 and day 2, but that seems like that just adds to the confusion factor. I make a youtube playlist so people can experience everything without clicking through the topic, but clicking through the topic tends to be the method of choice for the people who do have the patience to sample everything -- and not everyone can do that. Obviously that's the real limitation; not everyone wants to or has the ability to listen to 500 songs before choosing, especially when they already have some notion of what they want to listen to.

The last year or two, rather than nominating a boatload of songs up front, I've just compiled a list of things I would support as I went. The list inevitably has more than 20, but I broadcast my intentions and hope that maybe others might see what I found interesting to give them a chance. (It's primary purpose is so the nominators don't feel like they're on an island if nobody supports a song, and bail.)

Beyond that, though, I don't have any great ideas. It's almost as if, assuming you have cool song, you need to get a word in first. Would saying "only 5 noms on day one" be useful or counterproductive? Because I got nothin' else.
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN

Mac Arrowny posted...

Alrighty, looks like ACI-L and Tsubasa Short ver. Hope'll be my Umineko noms of choice.

And like Janus said, I think having long versions allowed makes the field stronger, which is pretty important at this point.

Retired list:
...
Umineko no Naku Koro ni 1 - Hope
---

http://imgur.com/ekqlssN