Lurker > Lopen

Oh yeah Finlay getting DQed was really dumb I forgot all about that. I mean we've got examples of guys jumping the gun, and much more of guys using weapons-- Cole said it was for the shillelagh too. The whole Finlay/Swoggle thing was just bad cause man I really wanted to see Mark Henry and Big Daddy V destroy this creature, so we were robbed of that too.

Another thing that kinda irked me about the Rumble was that the buzzer was totally inconsistent. I know it's never consistent but it was especially bad in this one. Like Snuka->Piper->Kane was probably 90 seconds. How is Finlay supposed to know when his number is coming.

And I didn't entirely mind everyone gawking at Piper/Snuka in and of itself (it had a very subtly hilarious moment where you see Punk staring at them, laughing, in the background, and Morrison is standing above him and is like "this is amazing, right?" to him and then KICKS HIM as Punk is replying) but these guys were so old and so fat giving them center stage seems like the worst idea.
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Royal Rumble 2008:

This Rumble is in so many ways was like the bizarroworld version of 2007.

To kick off the bizarroworld, we start with Undertaker and Shawn Michaels at 1 and 2. It's a fun throwback to last year as they basically start where they finished last year. Santino comes out at 3, acts big, gets thrown out immediately. KHALI comes out at 4 for redemption, but is again quickly eliminated by The Undertaker as "you can't wrestle!" chants ring throughout the arena. Screw you, audience!

Ring fills up with midcarders, and Batista shows up at some point in there. Nothing happens till like 18. Almost literally nothing. Barely even any eliminations. Highlights include Hardcore Holly blatantly cheating to avoid elimination (his feet totally hit the ground) and Hornswoggle hiding under the ring. I wanted things to happen. Umaga came out and I was really hoping he'd kick some ass-- he did nothing of the sort! This is nothing in a bad way cause you have this weird 1 to 1 pairing off of midcarders vs MEers generally, and so no one who's a threat to win really feels at risk.

So anyway 18 hits, old ass Jimmy Snuka, who certainly does not "still got it" comes out to decay in the ring as he does some chops to guys and they look like total mooks. Then 19, fat ass Roddy Piper, who also does not "still got it" (thank goodness the audience did not chant this) and time freezes as they brawl a while-- like everyone is literally just watching them, amazed. Then Kane comes out at 20 and ends this frankly kinda embarrassing nonsense by eliminating both.

So then Taker eliminates Snitsky, HBK eliminates Taker from behind, and Kennedy eliminates HBK from behind as he's focused on Taker. I kinda didn't like this as it's kinda giving too much focus on HBK/Taker-- yeah in a few years it's cool backstory but the guys have quite enough history that you didn't need to add more to this. Would've really liked if say Umaga had just wrecked the two, rather than the two basically eliminating each other.

Nothing happens for a long time. Triple H comes out at 29 to a ring full of 20 guys and it's feeding time for Hunter. Eliminating guys by the gobs. RETURNING JOHN CENA is 30. This was a pretty cool return and legitimately a surprise at the time, even to dirt sheet people IIRC, and I felt the hype for a bit. Then Hunter and Cena kill everyone and I care less. Batista is also there, he gets killed last. We end with Cena vs Triple H as Triple H must once again try and capture the magic of what occurred on the previous year's Rumble, but not unlike in his previous attempts, ends up with a pitiful imitation. Cena wins after like 8 minutes of fighting that I could not possibly care about less. Didn't help that I remembered Cena won this.

Suffice to say I did not like this match. The moments fell flat or detracted, it was perpetually overcrowded to the point where there was no excitement, and the entire roster felt like food for HBK, Taker, Batista, HHH, and Cena.

Really tough to place it. I think Daniel Puder getting the s*** chopped out of him and Simon Dean edge out the first 10 minutes of this. Though it's real close considering the announcing is better. BUT the end was less drawn out. Eh.

Royal Rumble Ranking:
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 1997 > 2007 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 2005 > 2008 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999 > 2006

The undercard I dunno. Edge reminded me that I didn't like Rated R Superstar Edge once he left Raw and Lita for SD and Vickie. Bad skits-- too much Ashley. I guess Orton vs Hardy was a good match? I didn't much care for it as Jeff had sorta been killed by Triple H over and over IIRC at this point. MVP vs Flair was good and match of the show for me, but I was a fanboy of that storyline and MVP, so your results may vary.
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The debut of Royal Rumble by the numbers

God dammit

Man this Rumble is the first Rumble that really seems "current." This unfortunately isn't a good thing-- I can't get into the undercard matches just for novelty's sake anymore. MVP vs Flair was the only match I was particularly invested in here.
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My goodness I can feel this HD in the CAREER THREATENING MATCH (this storyline was the best).

First time I've watched HD wrestling on this 50 inch tv the difference is real
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Doink and Doink
Tag Title Match: Bad Influence (c)
Brock Lesnar, Kevin Owens, Randy Orton
The Big Show
Roman Reigns

(2x2) Big Show is attacked after his match. 2 people come in for the save. 1 is obvious, the other is not. Each one is worth 2 points. Hornswoggle and El Torito
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Royal Rumble 2007:

In many ways, this Rumble is similar to 2004. It has pretty good action throughout. I was never bored during the entire match. Also, much like 2004, I liked pretty much everyone in this match. It also had a hell of a finish. And well, much like 2004, I'm pretty much going straight to that, though maybe not for exactly the same reasons.

What this Rumble is... you've pretty much got 27 numbers of brawling. This is very good brawling, however. As I said, the action is good, people are always doing stuff, no dudes just sitting around, and the dudes in there are generally fun wrestlers. I have no particular complaints, but I also can't remember much of it. Like it was just... a blur. It was fun fighting, and that's about it. Moreso than any other Rumble nothing much of interest happens. It's pure honorable combat and little else.

Then 28 comes along, and it's The Great Khali. I freakin love Khali so this part of the Rumble makes me very happy. The ring is overfilled, and well, he just dominates the hell out of it. He got 7 eliminations in less than 4 minutes, and everyone else was leveled. If you hate Khali like many do, well, you may not enjoy this as much as I did.

So then Taker comes out, and ultimately eliminates Khali. I'm put out a bit, cause honestly I wasn't sure who won at this point and hadn't ruled out that Khali just won, but what follows is... well... unique. Your final 5 are MVP, Orton, Edge, Undertaker, and Edge. Taker eliminates MVP, who gets pissed, tries to come in with a chair to beat up Taker-- refs stop him, but he manages to slide the chair in, which Orton takes, and smashes Taker with. He then RKOs HBK, who rolls out of the ring. He and Edge team up on Taker for a bit, then HBK comes in and eliminates the two.

So then... usually, once it hits the final 2, the match is close to over. But Taker and Michaels... basically have a Raw main event at the end of this. Like, it wasn't super long but it was long enough that I was like "okay, cool, so basically Rumble was a prelude to an Undertaker vs HBK match." This was a kinda neat way to end the match. I don't know how I feel about it, though. It did feel like it went just a hair long, considering we just had an hour of dudes fighting before it, and I'm not sure how well it'll hold up if I were to watch this again. But it is Taker vs HBK so you know it was at least a good match tacked on.

Special bonus about this Rumble that gives it some minor extra points to me. I had no idea who won between Taker and Michaels when it got there (and it also helped that I had no real issue with either guy winning). I doubt this was calculated, but it's pretty cool that the two guys who finished here in this long ass 1v1 end segment both had title matches at Wrestlemania 23-- really makes this hold up better than it might have otherwise.

Basically this is a flawless Rumble for me. Even the gimmick elimination was good-- King Booker flipping out and destroying Kane was great. If every Rumble was like this I'd always be happy with it. But I also have trouble saying anyone needs to watch it, particularly if they don't like The Great Khali. It just really lacked much in the way of cool stuff, and you can't exactly say it helped build a star or anything. Just very safe.

Royal Rumble Ranking:
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 1997 > 2007 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 2005 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999 > 2006

As for the Undercard

MNM were great (even Melina!) and really make me realize how underappreciated they were by me.
And Cena vs Umaga was a fantastic match. This had a lot of unique moments and may be my favorite Last Man Standing match ever. Not too surprising though I've always loved Umanga.
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Okay starting 2007 now.
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BakusaiTenketsu posted...

CherryCokes posted...

I want a Lopen ranks the Mafia players topic

God Tier:
Lopen

Trash Tier:
Everyone else


...obviously

Def close to accurate.
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Well if it helps I do think you're good when you're on which is more than I'd say for a lot of people!
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It was a reference to me thinking your mafia play is very inconsistent, having good games about 50% of the time.
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I left my ROKU at work (don't ask why I brought it there I had my reasons!) and screw bothering to watch WWE Network on anything else anymore so no Rumble 2007 till tomorrow.
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Does not reading the scumboard for the first few game days count? Cause I've totally done that before-- think it made my scum game better too.
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If the coin comes up heads Boko would do that without my help anyway.
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Flavour and disdain for supporting an FFD hosted project aside, unless there's a role in this setup that's harder to win with than SK or Usurper I don't think there's anything left to do in Mafia for me anyway. I got enough cred that I was basically a lock to get killed N1 several games in a row, have replaced into a game where I replaced obvscum that had like 5 votes coming in, argued out of it successfully, and caused Chris to have a meltdown and roleclaim cop to try and end me (I think this worked but was a net major positive for scum), and have won with the most difficult roles. What more is there to do.

At this point there really isn't anything to do but tarnish my legacy! It's a trap even if I was interested!
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I'm tempted to join just so I can forfeit the game after five or six days but I'm not so petty

As it is as a great man once said the flavour is not up to my standard
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_SecretSquirrel posted...

despite getting so winded at one point he vomited outside the ring.

... what?

Do not get this at all. He had to have been nervous or something. This match did not seem like one that should've been hugely demanding on his stamina. At worst it was a 10 minute match followed by a 20 minute rest period followed by a 40 minute match. But that 40 minute didn't seem like a demanding one till the final stretch as he was still for the most part taking it easy at that point and had a lot of rest periods.

I guess maybe he was trying to lift people too much or something? I know that can be disproportionately tiring. But I feel like without that or nerves he's had more demanding matches.
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Lawler
Steel/Garea
Bret
Steamboat and Sammartino
Bonus: Tag match
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It's possible? But I remember Vis doing this to a lot of people in his largest love machine run so not necessarily.

Also I don't think Rey losing his title shot would change my feelings on this Rumble much (though his title run was legendarily awful). The big thing that upset me more than anything was those two jokers lasting the whole thing. Even something as token as Rey being #5 and Triple H being #7 would've done a lot to make me less upset about it.
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Just to be clear since this may not be obvious, I'm actually a Rey Mysterio fan at all points of his career but this point. (well, that and the Filthy Animals in WCW but let's try to forget unmasked Rey existed) I mean there are some contrived 619 setups I hated but in general, he's a good dude and entertaining to watch.

But man I just really hated the Eddie thing. It was painful to watch in the backstage skits here-- "herp you got me Eddie" after he draws his number argh.

I mean even if someone sorta expected but not offensive like say HBK had won, this Rumble would not be good to me, but that really was the icing on the cake. Aggravated immensely by how drawn out the finish was.

In any case, good to have had you as a reader. Totally understand if you'll be checking out now as I advance beyond what you've seen, much like I'm sure Leonhart did a few Rumbles ago! But hey if you don't, maybe you'll get a good Rumble recommendation or two by the time we're all said and done. (then again I just called Boogeyman awesome so who knows if I've lost all credibility at this point)
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Oh and the undercard on this show was garbage. I probably got the most entertainment out of the cruiser match opener, or maybe Boogeyman vs JBL or Mickie vs Ashley as watching Boogey do his absurd shenanigans and Mickie being such a creeper were both great. Certainly weren't actual good matches. Edge vs Cena was a bad Raw match, and Henry vs Kurt was Mark Henry as a wannabe main eventer before the Hall of Pain which you know is no good.
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Royal Rumble 2006:

This PPV was a strange mix of refreshers on things from the era that I love and hate.

Things I love: Stalker Mickie James, The Boogeyman, Carlito, Chris Masters, Rated R Superstar Edge, Shelton's Mama
Things I hate: Rey Mysterio and the WWE in general exploiting Eddie's death, Vince McMahon being a dirty old man, The Spirit Squad, The World's Largest Love Machine

Now keeping all this in mind, let's get into how this Rumble plays out. Triple H draws #1, Rey Mysterio draws #2. The two of them proceed to eliminate one of my favs of the time as you know from my last write-up, Simon Dean, who drew #3, and proceed to hold the ring through #5, eliminating Flair and Psicosis, two more wrestlers I like more than them. I get hype for Big Show at #6, knowing he's likely to be able to last more than 1 number.

For the next several numbers, big men like Show, Kane, Lashley, and The Coach (why is he wasting space in two rumbles straight) fight it out while Triple H and Mysterio lay there for like 20 minutes. This laying down for extreme excesses of time is a peeve of mine unless it's played up in a heelish way, particularly when multiple guys are doing it. Eventually the ring starts to fill with guys like Carlito, Benoit, MnM, TATANKA (more hype for him here than when he was a regular). The ring actually gets really crowded, as Cole remarks about how long it's been since an elimination has occurred. It peaks at probably like 10-12 guys. Crowded rings tend to slow the action down, but in this Rumble it was probably my favorite part since Rey and Triple H scamming an ironman run were extremely distracting for me every time the ring wasn't crowded.

Chavo comes in, joins Rey in Eddie pandering by doing all of his moves, poorly. Goes up for a Frog Splash, and Triple H in the greatest moment he's had in these thus far, pushes him off the top before he can do his ~TRIBUTE~ Frog Splash. This made me very happy. Masterful trolling.

The World's Largest Love Machine comes in, mounts and violates Matt Hardy, and tosses him out. Great! Shelton Benjamin, who promised Vince he'd eliminate Shawn Michaels is eliminated by HBK, prompting Vince McMahon to come out and distract HBK who gets eliminated by Shane McMahon, causing yet another elimination of HBK as a result of outside forces. Fantastic! Triple H and Rey Mysterio go pretty close wire to wire as our final four is RVD, Orton, HHH, and Rey. Splendid! ... sorry, I got carried away. The coffee was actually cold, and I hated all these things.

The final four is almost certainly top 2 in terms of painful finishes of a Royal Rumble to watch. In the worst Frog Splash turnabout ever, Triple H eliminates our last hope RVD very early as he's about to Five Star Frog Splash, as the final like 10 minutes (this is actually not an exaggeration-- this finish was SO drawn out) of the match or so are spent agonizing over Orton, Triple H, and Mysterio, a true no win situation for me.

I just hated watching this. Now I know I was none too kind to 1995, but give me two guys I like ironmanning through a bunch of jobbers over two guys I hate ironmanning through a bunch of midcarders, some of which are lovable, while being ignored for a lot of it every time. Leave those fond 1995 memories alone. :(

Objectively this Rumble probably wasn't quite as bad as I'm making it out to be. It did some good things. There were at least a lot of probable winners in there. And if exploiting Eddie's death to help build Rey doesn't upset you (it did for me even at the time-- this isn't a hindsight thing) this isn't the worst result either. But for me? This is the only Rumble I can say with certainty I don't ever wanna watch again. Ever.

Royal Rumble Ranking
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 1997 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 2005 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999 > 2006
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Yeah holy crap bad timing on that match

I'm not sure if it annoys me that no refs were remotely close to the corner that the two guys were brawling for 3 minutes by, or that it was a good thing that no refs were over there since it gives them some sorta plausible reason to doubt Harper won.

Anyway starting 2006 now.
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Teams section super useful

Also on that note has anyone died in this game?
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Well, let's try.

Hassan goes on a small losing streak, come Rumble he gets some sort of ultimatum that he needs to win by Wrestlemania or he'll be fired
We see montages where he trains really hard
Late February, he comes back, he seems to be poised to win his match-- loses by interference
This happens another time or two. The GM tries to help him out a bit by banning interference, or making lumberjack matches, or whatever else, but the GM won't remove the career threatening stipulation outright.
At Wrestlemania cornered in a do or die situation he enlists his own men to be 'lumberjacks' who fight off any interference-- then late in the match while the ref is distracted the lumberjacks assault his opponent who is on the verge of winning.
Hassan claims that he was pushed to resorting to this and he should've won a month ago if he wasn't being oppressed by the roster so the interference by his guys was just turnabout being fair play, and that the gm's unfair ultimatum put him in this situation

I dunno. That's the best attempt I can make.

Yeah yeah you came for rumble reviews not bad fantasy booking-- shaddap.
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I think it's impossible for Hassan to tell that story even if you're way better at writing than WWE is. You really would need a different setting-- wrestling cannot possibly raise the stakes high enough for that to seem justified.
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I mean the whole thing that got Hassan taken off TV was a combination of the London bombings and using dudes who actually looked like terrorist stereotypes to attack Taker IIRC. If Hassan continued to be consistent (his whole thing was promoting that Arabs aren't terrorists) he would've been fine-- don't know who the hell thought that was a good idea.
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Kane and Finn
????
Bully Ray and Jericho
Neville
Magnus and James Storm
AJ Styles

(2) The mystery tag team is either in NXT in real life or was in NXT in real life in the last year. Who are they? Authors of Pain
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Yeah. Sucks but it's probably true.

I still loved Hassan but that's entirely on Hassan being great and his music being the best interruption music ever. I'm sure the more I watch this old stuff the more I'd pick it apart and be upset about the guy being a "heel" who is completely right, and while this in and of itself isn't the worst thing (Bret Hart was a heel who was generally completely right-- presentation is most important!), what he's right about is kinda upsetting.

However I know this won't come up again cause I know Hassan wasn't around much longer than a year ( :( ), so meh. The memories will thankfully be left alone here, and I can go back to remembering interrupting Hassan ytmnds in peace.
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If only he had heeded Simon Dean's warnings...
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Royal Rumble 2005:

This Rumble saw the return of number skits. I love those things. Flair flips out about how good his number is, Eddie congratulates him with a hug, steals the number-- it eventually is given back after Teddy Long gets on him for it. Kurt Angle steals Nunzio's number, no one cares.

The actual Rumble starts really great. Eddie Guerrero and Benoit start, so you know it should be good. Then Tough Enough winner MMA wannabe Daniel Puder comes out and gloats about how he's gonna win. Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and #4, Hardcore Holly, chop the s*** out of Daniel Puder. For like 4 minutes. You'd think this would get old but these chops are harsh-- I assume this is some sort of punishment for Puder trying to shoot on Kurt Angle in a wrestling match.

Now, unfortunately after this, the thing kinda drops off a cliff for a really long time. My only real enjoyment is in random midcarders who end up amounting to very little, like for exampl-- AEEEAYYYEEEYAAAAAEEEAYYYYAAA hell yes Muhammad Hassan. I loved this guy, loved his music-- why is everyone teaming up on him to throw him out wasn't he supposed to be a heel and wrong about being discriminated against and hated what the hell he's totally vindicated as he's teamed up in a 10 on 1 and promptly eliminated.

Then later, you've got Simon Dean, who I also flip out about. Man I miss fun jobbers like this. He's doing stretches and squats outside of the ring for like a minute, comes in just before the next guy comes in, continues doing squats. Shawn Michaels throws him out, and mocks him by doing some squats of his own. Okay unlike Hassan this was awesome.

Now you ask, why was this not great? Aside from the ring just generally being overcrowded throughout the match, which hurts the in ring action, there's a huge emphasis on Smackdown vs Raw (this bleeds into and damages the commentary as Tazz will not shut up about "how many Smackdown guys are in there?!" "we need more Smackdown guys!") which I do not care about. The overcrowding and SD vs Raw element also causes too many moments where everyone stops what they're doing and line up in groups (usually SD vs Raw) and all rush into each other, totally breaking the momentum of the match.

Speaking of breaking momentum, another problem was much like 1991, every time I would be interested in something, it'd be eliminated. Booker T starts kicking ass? See ya. Kurt Angle shows up, goes nuts and tosses everyone all over the place? HBK tosses him out. HBK seeming strong? Kurt Angle shows up from elimination and tosses him out. (another peeve of mine!)

Oh, and let's not forget the botched finish, where both Batista and Cena go over at the same time and outdo 1994 with a tie game, only to have Vince come out and restart the match. To add to the silliness, I think Vince tore his quad or something sliding into the ring to make a decision on this, as he spoke to the referees from a sitting position and without a mic to issue his decree.

So the question is how well can Daniel Puder getting beat up and Simon Dean being awesome carry a Rumble.

Not too well!

Royal Rumble Ranking
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 1997 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 2005 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999

Undercard wasn't very good either. Triple H vs Orton is practically unwatchable for me anymore, even though it was fresh at this time. Although I am confused if Orton was legitimately injured in this as he was bleeding from the mouth and acting concussed after just having a DDT countered-- weird way to set that up! Then you had Heidenreich vs Taker in a casket match, which is nuff said, and Angle/JBL/Show in a Triple Threat with a really dumb finish with like 10 guys interfering. All things considered HBK vs Edge was the best match on the show despite my criticism!
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Eh you can to some extent if you're liberal with your use of narratives (and worker/owner relationships and owner traits/etc). That's why I always liked The Golden Age mod (starts just before Wrestlemania 3) a lot-- I've simmed it a lot and it ends up closer to accurate than you'd expect like 10 years later.

It is a fine balance though-- you obviously want variation to exist otherwise it's like "well why play this it's exactly the same as it went in real life" but I do feel like if you're running a historic mod you do want certain things to click into place fairly reliably.

But yeah I guess I was just wondering if WWF is at least poised to hit their stride soon if they make the right moves and you just failed to or if it's just not quite inherently strong enough to do it easily. It did seem like you've been getting good enough show ratings but what can ya do.
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So like, if you leave WWF to their own devices on the AI, will they explode more often than not, or is the mod just not very accurate?
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Watching Rumble 2005 now.

Still going through the undercard, but Edge/HBK may be the best example of "bad chemistry" with guys who are good wrestlers I can recall. I didn't really care about this match at all which is kinda amazing considering who's in it. I bet if Edge was the face and HBK was the heel it'd be better-- Edge's moveset and style seem really bad at putting HBK in a place where he seems in peril which is where I feel he excels particularly as a face.

But then again HBK/Flair was good and I feel it'd have the same problem so maybe that isn't it.

I dunno maybe it was just me.
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More tomorrow
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RAW Week 2
The Miz and Gunner
IC Title: Cody Rhodes (c)
#1 Contender: Natayla Neidhart
Xavier Woods
Tag Title Match: Bad Influence

The Main Event is Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle vs Cesaro. The match ends in a draw. Why? (2 for the correct concept. 5 for exact) Mark Henry inducts them all into the Hall of Pain.
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Now I ain't gonna say Hardcore Holly wasn't over at all, but I do think that guys who show up by attacking from the crowd and swinging chairs with unprotected chairshots are gonna have a magnified reaction.

And I didn't necessarily want Orton to go the long haul with Benoit or anything I just don't like eliminations from forces outside the rumble in general. I mean I guess Foley was in the Rumble, technically, but it was more like he was an outside force that happened to have a number with how briefly he was in there. (and because he attacked Test to get his spot in the first place)
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I still prefer 1992, as I feel that Flair's ironman run was a focus throughout and felt like a really big deal whereas Benoit's was kinda just... a thing that happened to occur. I feel like anyone who'd beaten Big Show there would've gotten a huge boost. Big Show if anything was the star of this and it's amazing he came off as so legit here.

There were a few minor flaws too. The moments in this were more annoying than cool in general. To that point, we had maybe one too many gimmick eliminations. Foley comes out who is feuding with Orton, he does the Foley over the ropes clothesline and eliminates em both (ending Orton's ironman run) almost instantly. The DONG from Taker goes off, but it's not Taker, and Kane is distracted and dumped out while looking towards the entrance. Lesnar comes out and attacks Goldberg cause Goldberg gave him crap, then Goldberg recovers, yells at Brock, Angle dumps him out from behind. Also because the match was so frenetic eliminations were done during entrances and missed twice. These were brief entrances, unlike Godfather's 2 minute nonsense. We did get them on replay but still.

Argh two posts.
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Royal Rumble 2004:

Story coming into this is Heyman rigged Benoit at 1 because he's a dick, and Goldberg got rigged 30 cause he won that right in some manner of battle royal or something.

Orton is 2, and he and Benoit fight and both end up lasting a really long time... and well, I dunno, the match is just really well paced, but I also don't have much to talk about for most of it. Like you basically just had a lot of good solid wrestling. Guys came in and were a house of fire and beat everyone up, but while doing it other guys stayed active rather than just laying down. It just always felt like there was action all over the ring, which is in and of itself is exceptional, really.

I guess there were some cool spots. Like Bradshaw coming in and Clothesline From Helling everyone, except Benoit who countered it into a Crippler Crossface was pretty fun. Tajiri does his mist to Mark Henry, blinding him, then tries the tarantula (he's now been eliminated twice by doing this move lol) and is thrown out by Henry while getting in position for it, who is then thrown out by Benoit cause he's still blind. Nunzio gets attacked by Foley's mandible claw while coming out and just sits outside for like 10 minutes 'selling' the claw (he's intentionally faking this), until Cena drags him in when he comes out. Ernest Miller comes out and dances with only Orton and Benoit in there, who recover and eliminate him and his ring announcer.

Now all that out of the way, let's get to why this match was awesome. The finish. This has got to be by far the greatest finish in any Royal Rumble ever. You may have seen a clip of the actual last elimination, but it really doesn't do it justice. As some leadin throughout the match, people have been ganging up on Big Show, who has been a beast and has chokeslammed many a man, trying to do the dogpile dump the big man out. Well Big Show is not having it, roars. Throws em off. This happens a few times. Big Show is a beast.

Your final 6 are... RVD, Kurt Angle, John Cena, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Big Show. Kurt's like "let's get Big Show" so they try to dogpile him again-- he roars, throws em all off. They just maul him a bit, knock him down by hitting a bunch of moves. He's down. He then gets hit with a Lionsault, Five Knuckle Shuffle, Five Star Frog Splash, and Diving Headbutt. He's dead. They all try to lift him up, but he's deadweight, so this is really hard.. they eventually maneuver him to the ropes. Nope. Roar! Big Show tosses out Cena in short order. He's brought down again, put in the Walls, but recovers, and tosses out Jericho and RVD. Who can stop this man!

Angle chops him down again, gets the Ankle lock... Big Show is screaming... Kurt ain't letting go... so Big Show in his most agile Rumble feat, crawls over the top rope, whips his leg over and throws Kurt out, leaving Benoit and Show. What hope does Benoit have? Benoit tries to mount some offense, but Show lifts him overhead and approaches the ropes, it's over... but Benoit drops down by the ropes in a guillotine! He pulls Show down by his head over the ropes! Show is doing a literal headstand, and is pulled over. Great!

Royal Rumble Ranking
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 1997 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999
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I'd like to talk about the undercard to this Rumble a bit in a separate post just to give people an idea of if they've seen this PPV since I don't think I can really 'build' the Rumble much in the write-up in any sorta natural way-- and the Rumble was pretty awesome.

Anyway on the flip side, this undercard was pretty bad.

Batista & Flair vs Dudleys 4:23
Jamie Noble vs Rey Mysterio 3:12
Eddie Guerrero vs Chavo Guerrero 8:03
Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly 6:30

These were the matches, save the ME, and how long they went-- is this Raw? Smackdown? Hardcore Holly on PPV in a title match? I mean there was a great hype package for this about how Holly was pissed cause Lesnar broke his neck with a powerbomb a year ago. But the match starts and Holly does about as well as you'd think he would. Only reason that match went 6 minutes 30 seconds is because 5 minutes of it was Brock doing body vices on Hardcore Holly.

Anyway the main event of the Undercard featured HBK vs Triple H in a Last Man Standing Match. This was... a really weird match. It was an interesting on how much blood and blood alone can make a match seem brutal and get people into it. The guys were bleeding buckets but it just wasn't really anything that nasty at all. Like, HBK busted himself open on a missed jump to the floor to put Trips through a table. I swear if I didn't know better I'd say this was not planned cause it's just such a random way to bust a guy open. But yeah like, it was mostly just punching and waiting for 8 seconds and the two sold blood loss. There were like 2 chairshots to the back. Very little in the way of moves. Match finishes with Shawn taking a Pedigree, getting up at 9, hitting Sweet Chin Music, then both guys stay down 10. What? And they both get stretchered out while the fans chant "bulls***!" Great!

Also random aside I may be the only one to say this ever but I miss Nidia. Blind Nidia underappreciated terrible gimmick. Good manager, left WWE too soon. :(
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Yeah pretty much.

People wanna watch a specific PPV and can generally do without the network's archives and stuff when they don't have the subscription.

You wanna reduce churn make PPVs more reliably worth getting, or make the weekly new content more compelling (talking smack and 205 live are basically like, shotgun and superstars-- just don't need to watch these particularly when there's such a saturation of the mainline content). Pretty simple!
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Turns out my WWE Network subscription actually expires today. Now, part of me wanted to take a short break from these and snag Fast Lane and Wrestlemania in the window, but with it this early I don't think I'll be doing that.

I think I'm just gonna keep the subscription and say screw Wrestlemania at this rate-- then maybe keep for Wrestlemania if the build is actually good.

Anyway more later tonight.
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Countie bumping
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Aw man. Big Show kicked at 1? Weak.
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You can't fool me that's clearly a Nitro set !

Worst part is I'm pretty sure The Giant kicks out of that :(
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Angle vs Perfect would've been great. Austin vs Perfect would've been great too. Real shame-- I'm not even sure what he did in 2002 other than this Rumble and promo videos. That may have been about it, really.

And glad you got something out of this topic TUM in the form of watching glorious Rumble 2002-- hopefully you didn't get too far in the write-up before watching it. I do try to sort of escalate these write-ups to the winner and big stuff so as to not spoil everything early so hopefully that worked and it was still fairly new to you.
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Royal Rumble 2003

What an awesome start to this one. HBK was forced into #1, and Chris Jericho was able to pick any number he wanted for some reason. He wanted #1 to prove a point to HBK, but he couldn't get it cause HBK already had it, so he takes #2 instead. So anyway, HBK's in the ring waiting, Y2J's music hits, and he's doing the pose on the stage... but it's Chris Jericho's buddy Christian! HBK is confused, and Jericho ambushes him with a low blow from behind and just destroys him with a chair and a rain of punches. HBK is literally the first guy eliminated.

This may be the only Rumble this applies to, but I almost think this Rumble peaked at that point. The rest of it was just like, filler. Run this Rumble style in say 1995 and it's much worse, but it was pretty enjoyable filler. The strength of the roster is still here for me and despite the Rumble being mostly midcard guys they're midcard guys I really like. Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy Version 1.0 (it's no Broken Matt but this was a very underrated gimmick imo), 3 Minute Warning (man their music is dubbed over :( ), Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Booker T, RVD, etc etc.

But yeah a lot of it just ended in ways that didn't satisfy me. RVD was making a run and got dicked over by his tag partner Kane after Kane said in a promo "I'm gonna dick you over." Christian got eliminated by Chris Jericho, and I loved that team. Chris Jericho got eliminated after HBK recovered from his beatdown and came out and attacked him. Matt Hardy v1, who was the star of this rumble for me with all his shenanigans with his MFer Shannon Moore saving him from elimination repeatedly, was effortlessly dispatched by Brock Lesnar.

Oh and whatever your thoughts on Cena's rapper gimmick, Cena did a terrible rap for this. I actually thought some of his raps were okay but this one yikes.

Anyway this ends with the beefiest final 4. Batista, Kane, Brock, and Taker. Brock wins in again, kinda unsatisfying fashion, as Taker outsmarts Kane and then Brock opportunistically tosses out Taker off of that.

Best moment of this Rumble other than the opener: Maven dropkicks Taker again when he's distracted near the ropes, turns around, is like "two in a row baby!" but uh, not so much, Taker is right behind him and destroys him. Great throwback.

This Rumble was pretty much the benchmark of the bare minimum to be good. I liked it, but only so much.

Royal Rumble Ranking
1992 > 2002 > 1997 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 2003 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999

Now the undercard, on the other hand, made it very worth watching. I speak of course of Scott Steiner beating the hell out of Triple H for 20 and Triple H escaping by DQ. Has Triple H ever been so dominated? So cathartic. Unfortunately Big Poppa Pump lost by DQ but what a dominat-- no that match sucked (though if Steiner had just won I would've actually liked it despite it sucking. why DIDN'T he win jeez Triple H looked so impotent)

I speak of course of the Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit match, which has gotta be one of the best displays of submissions and counters in wrestling ever for the last 10 minutes or so. What an amazing match. All their matches are good to varying degrees but this is probably my favorite they had ever. Must watch for any fan of the two.
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Perfect was one of the wrestling deaths I took hardest. Huge fan as you should know by reading these but unlike other guys like Macho Man who I liked about as much, I was also still hoping he could come back for one more run. (even though he'd fizzled out of WWE again at that point) I know he was in his mid 40s but I wouldn't have ruled it out-- his style was safe enough if he got his life together a bit.

And it should go without saying (1992's undercard was an abomination) that 2002 is my favorite show overall at this point. 2001 was also pretty good and also better than 1992 overall.
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Haha yes that was excellent.

Probably ranks #3 of moments in this very rumble for me behind Hurricane and Perfect kicking all sorts of ass vs Triple H and Austin, but it would be best moment in most rumbles.

Oh random nitpick, the worst moment in the Rumble (beyond the winner): Godfather and his stupid ass hos taking up the screen for nearly 2 minutes and causing us to miss a DDP elimination. So bad.
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Oh, forgot to talk about the undercard whatsoever.

Rock/Jericho was pretty great. Definitely my favorite undercard match in any of these rumbles so far. There was some buffoonery in it but I don't really feel Jericho lost entirely due to forces out of his control. Still had some credibility here. Finish was awesome where Jericho hit the ultimate cheatyface combo of Low Blow Uppercut->Turnbuckle Smash into exposed turnbuckle->feet on the ropes for the win as the KOed ref barely recovers to make the count.

Oh and Vince McMahon vs Flair was actually surprisingly okay too though I kinda hate how much offense McMahon gets in. Even vs a wrestler who doesn't overwhelm you like Flair a 60 year old authority figure shouldn't be getting that much offense off no matter how buff he looks. Eric Bischoff was the only authority figure who knew what he was doing in these matches tbqh.
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Royal Rumble 2002

This may be the closest thing to capturing what a perfect Rumble is about. This thing felt chaotic and exciting for practically the whole thing. There were a ton of big moments, and the big names were spread around at seemingly random places. I also really liked all the parts where guys you wouldn't expect got good offense in. The Hardyz vs Taker, Val Venis and Test vs Austin, and Mr Perfect in general were great examples of this and really fun. Rumble 2017 take notes of these types of encounters.

This Rumble also had the 1990 effect going for it where the Rumble just felt packed with stars. Even moreso than then, because there were a lot of midcarders I really liked in this as well. Christian, Hurricane, DDP, Hardyz, Val Venis, just a lot of fun guys to pull for in this. Final 12 numbers really show how stacked this roster is. Austin, Triple H, Booker T, RVD, Mr Perfect, Kurt Angle, Big Show, Kane are 8/12. That end stretch was pretty great. But let's talk about the great moments in this a bit.

You've got the returning Goldust at #2 so that's fun-- he and Rikishi (who is back to being his old dancing gimmick and music a year later) carry the early parts. Undertaker comes out earlyish, at #8 or so, and cleans out the ring and claims his yard, waiting for the next guy. #9 is Matt Hardy, who was shelved by Undertaker. He and Lita go into a frenzy attacking Taker-- Taker starts to get the upperhand, but #10 is Jeff Hardy! (Hardyz have the best luck with close numbers in this) We've got a handicap match, but Taker eventually comes out on top, barely, eliminating both Hardyz as Maven comes out at #11. Eliminated Hardyz attack Taker some more when he throws Lita off the apron when she's screaming at him-- Taker is shouting at em and in the infamous moment Maven dropkicks him from behind, causing him to spill over the ropes.

Taker beats Maven around the arena a while as the ring starts to refill. Some brawling for a few numbers, Austin comes out, cleans out the ring-- eliminates everyone twice because he's bored. Val Venis and Test are the next two and give him hell as I talked about, then Austin with some strain gets rid of em-- when Triple H comes out and the two have quite the faceoff. They clothesline each other dead after some brawling, and Hurricane comes out... and well, may as well just show a clip the reactions are just amazing here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVSNW0LvE1w&t=48s

After that greatness, and Faarooq trying to fight the two and getting disposed of, Triple H and Austin are holding the ring for a while. Mr Perfect shows up next... and I fear the worst, but he basically 1v2s Austin and Triple H for a while. It's so great. I'm hoping he gets a Perfect Plex off on one of em, which he doesn't, but at least he survives with authority. From that point, you enter the final stretch. Just star after star after star. Most leaving quicker than they probably should-- Booker T and RVD in particular were sad but oh well. We finally get to the final 3.

Final 3, Kurt Angle, Triple H, Mr Perfect. I'm still pulling for that Perfect Plex-- I'm wondering if he hits it at all. Kurt and Perfect are brawling, Kurt throws him into a the ropes, puts his head down, PERFECT PLEX! PERFECT PLEX! I cheer! He does the trademark Perfect flipping neckbreake-- Triple f***ing H clotheslines him out as I curse at the TV, despite knowing Perfect was not going to win. I hate this guy more and more with each passing PPV.

This would no doubt be my favorite Rumble had any of the 8 I mentioned in that stacked batch of late entrants won other than Triple H or to a lesser extent Austin. Austin because winning 4 Rumbles is two too many. Triple H because... Triple H sucks.

Royal Rumble Ranking
1992 > 2002 > 1997 > 1990 > 2001 > 1994 > 1996 > 1989 > 1988 > 1993 > 1991 > 1995 > 1998 > 2000 > 1999
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