Lurker > Lopen

Kuja
Auron
Edgar
Cid P

Old We Just Did This

Seriously was my first thought

Fart was my one that actually fit the thing

Marche -2.5
Were he an actual villain he'd be good. But he's not presented that way so it ends up being annoying more than anything.

Emperor - 6.5
Pretty nothing behind the scenes guy in ff2. I like him in Dissidia. He's got that manipulator vibe down good and has a good VA/design.

X-Death - 10
I love the design and campy cheese of this heavy armor void wizard-- he comes off as very powerful and ahead of the party like Golbez but doesn't have a cop out resolution like Golbez does. He's very 80s cartoon villain in all regards right down to his dialogue and motivations (which is why I insist X-Death is the better name and intended) and I just love that-- it's actually fairly unique for a video game villain. He also should have won the Treasurer position.

Ultros - 7
He's fine. Not actually that funny but a little funny-- good in small doses I like that. He does the "annoying recurring mid boss" schtick pretty well.

Dycedarg - 5.5
I like when you have to defeat his elder brother. That's good for .5 points. Besides that he's just a schemey bad dude in a game filled to the brim with them, many of which who do it better. Hard to care much, but I don't dislike him in any sort of unintended way.

Yeah I think Art's need for validation by enjoying the victim's suffering that people seem to be sold on, for me while it makes him twisted, it ultimately limits how much evil he'd be driven to do to well below what Wesker would want to. Because if he isn't directly enjoying the suffering he isn't going to bother. So if you're not in his immediate proximity you're relatively safe.

Wesker

I think Seinfeld hasn't really aged and that's part of why it's a legendary sitcom. It doesn't date itself a lot with current events humor. Things like the Soup Nazi are just funny no matter what year it is.

But so will Seinfeld and probably moreso just because at the time it was bigger

Both of them will be relevant forever just on their status at the time through memes and references.

I mean I don't consider myself a friends fan but me I pretty much always drop the PIVOTTT!! reference when helping people move stuff. And so do my friends

To me that kinda stuff just matters more than reruns on TV at the moment. But reruns existing do help because the newer generations will get said references easier. Once TV stops being a thing it'll be the beginning of the end for both but that may never actually happen-- TV may be at about bottom right now.

Friends will be relevant until TV stops being relevant I agree

People who watch TV watch them but TV viewership has been steadily declining for decades now. The splash each made while broadcast is way more relevant until people who were alive in the 90s start being a minority imo

People binge watching friends reruns doesn't really affect "cultural phenomenon status"

If you want to argue friends has had better staying power and might be as or more relevant in the now I mean maybe but I also think it's kind of small fry win compared to when each was airing.

Squall
Vanille
Kefka
Yuffie

GranTurismo posted...

Like what channels are these reruns on?

TBS and Nick basically always had it on back when I had cable

Though Seinfeld too on TBS so kind of a wash

Leonhart4 posted...

Ehhhh, I don't feel like you can say that definitively.

I think you can but I think a big part of that is the state of television as a whole slowly declining more than anything with the show itself

Seinfeld's series finale was a pop culture phenomenon and that's largely because it aired during 1998. I would say by the time 2001 to 2004 came around Internet had begun its rise and TV had begun to matter less. Friends was still a big deal don't get me wrong but it had like 70% the viewers Seinfeld's finale did and when you're talking over 20 million less viewers I think that puts it in perspective a bit.

Anyway I prefer Seinfeld. Friends is watchable but the plot is too mired in relationship drama to be that enjoyable.

RySenkari posted...

This match was insanely close. A Kefka voter was convinced by arguments and changed their vote to Luca as well. It could've gone either way really.

I voted and argued for Luca but they are extremely similar evil portfolios so I wouldn't have minded either way

I am glad Luca won though. Despite the similarities I do think with the material shown Luca maximizes his evilness better

Wesker seems to lack personal touch. He wants to accomplish his evil goals but doesn't seem to care about suffering in particular. He does to his credit have instances where he betrays allies which does give him some points for me

Art seems to lack scale-- he likes making individuals miserable but wouldn't gain a lot by making the whole planet or even a city miserable.

Leaning Wesker atm

Wuss

They changed the spotlight schedule a bit btw.

Iron Lad in the Selene set is awesome since I wanted that one anyway. Howard and Galactus will be with Hercules too-- may go for that one.

Mobius seems really sucky now. With that effect I think 1/2 seems better

Zoran

Toad
Death

Vivi
Yuna
Cloud
Rikku

Team

Palom - 2
The twins are a huge wasted opportunity in FF4. Like Cecil is coming to a place he helped slaughter and he's accompanied by comic relief? I really don't get it.

Porom - 2
Bops unfunny Porom on the head and acts smarter than she is.

Zorn and Thorn - 2.5
A dumb gimmick character-- recurring theme in FFIX

Fujin - 7
Actual fun gimmick character. Probably because she has moments where she is INSIGHTFUL despite well, yeah. There seems to be an actual character with depth in there.

Raijin - 5.5
He's a kinda fun gimmick too but overshadowed by Fujin in all regards, yknow?

MacArrowny posted...

Kefka's goal is to make a monument to suffering. That's more ambitious than just wanting to kill everyone.

I don't know if that's his goal or that's a promo

Way I see it

Kefka is content to make people miserable, he kills many but he comes off as the type to enjoy the reactions as much as anything.
Luca basically kills everyone with no mercy.

Luca with the light of judgment doesn't blast someone's house with it he destroys the whole town. The world is probably way more messed up by the time Celes gets moving.

I do think Luca and Kefka are basically the same in terms of what they're capable of I just think Kefka might crazy RNG to something less terrible sometimes. Luca is just a bit more brutal and consistent imo.

Haste_2 posted...

Luca Blight

True story Kefka being content to let them grovel in this scene feels possible

I thought about this a bit

Very similarly evil characters. Basically fighter and mage in the same insane adventuring party. Hard to imagine either one not doing any evil deed the other didn't.

I think the tipping point for me is Kefka has some early moments where he's clowning around with his underlings-- the stuff at Figaro Castle for example Kefka shouts at his boys and calls them idiots. Hard to imagine Luca ever needing to chastise his soldiers-- he'd just murder any sources of insubordination and would have fear going on. Whether that's because Kefka wasn't powerful enough to just murder his own people I don't know but...

Luca Blight gets a slight nod from me. Very open to arguments on this one though.

Good

Bowser
Alucard

Glad Arcana boss was on here. Thats one I would have nominated if I saw these. It is indeed very Kirbyish-- I honestly think Kirby Superstar in the RPG sections should have just used Arcana stuff straight I would have loved that (they're both by Hal so I'm pretty sure that would have been fine?)

Fran - 5.5
Would probably be better if she wore more clothes honestly. I think they crutched on bunny girl ass and didn't put as much thought into making her a compelling character as they could have.

Jessie would probably be a 6 based off of just FF7 but this character I will actually hold off on rating. Just not a lot of material as is-- feels like it would be like rating Zack without having played Crisis Core at this point.

RySenkari posted...

He would eventually trick a planeswalker named Dyfed into creating a portal to Phyrexia for him, and would bind himself to the plane ruling it as its god and taking sick patients there in order to mutate them into his own personal army

Like to me this is a clear lynchpin moment that sets Yawgmoth ahead of most of this bracket (and massively ramps up his power)

When put in this situation how many even think to want to do this? Like this is above and beyond "this dude liked torturing innocent people" this is a guy wanting to enslave and corrupt an entire plane or universe or whatever you want to call it so he could use the sick from that plane and mutate them into his soldiers to spread misery to other planes of existence. At some point you have to think "well what evidence did character X show that they would even think to attempt that if put in a similar situation" and that's why I question whether it makes sense to scale people up to Yawgmoth willy nilly.

There is a special kind of ambition there that very few in this bracket possess. And at that point his power scale isn't really that nuts-- its really after that point he becomes super strong. Everything to that point is in theory doable by fairly low power scale people.

I guess my issue is Yawgmoth arguably can just become Yawgmoth from any power scale

Dude just was not very powerful/influential out of the box. The only limit on him would be the world setting itself.

you know what that means

RySenkari posted...

Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

For the record I do think using this rule should be done with some caution

Like yes trying to even scale is good but for characters like Yawgmoth there are certain x factors where it simply isn't fair to just make the characters equal and see what they'd do. Part of why Yawgmoth is so evil is his ambition. He ascended to godhood from mortal by executing a very extensive list of atrocities to get there. He then became such a corrupting influence that he literally blights the world upon death, which is not because it's just an inherent thing he was born with but that he did so much evil that this happened-- most entrants in this bracket, if "put in his position" simply wouldn't do that because they don't have the amount of evil mojo to do it and putting them as "equals" gives them evil cred they frankly never earned in their own canon and it's a lot of speculation to assume they would be able to.

At some point you have to wonder where in the timeline it's fair to stick the other guy. Game of Thrones guy could potentially worse in Yawgmoth's position but what is there to suggest he has the scheming cred and drive that he could reach that level.

I know this is a blowout and this isn't super worth talking about right now but that's my soapbox. (Honestly this is not all this post but also partially the Morgoth match being so stompy that put me on this tirade)

Cyan - 4
The thou thing is kind of a bad gimmick. I like him being a luddite but yeah I think more subtlety would have helped the character a lot.

Freya - 4
Hot take if this character was not a furry and not in FFIX she would have basically no fans here. Pretty boring. Not a bad character just like, not better than Amarant certainly.

Yawgmoth

Edgar
Kain
Cid P
Wiegraf

Triskaideka

Knull is super good though so not sure it's about actual card value

Heck I want a Howard the Duck selection cache and he's not great

It's funny that I kinda want Niko but I don't really want the Dan Hipp bird and I don't want to use Niko without that sweet variant

So I'm considering buying her for 6000 tokens and then going for the variant with selection caches

Big thing giving me pause is that means it's that much longer till I get Iron Lad

Kuja
Sephiroth
Selphie
Auron
Basch

Sun

Stormfront is a racist but she would also just kill anyone to make a point or for whatever other reason so I don't think that necessarily hurts her evilness at all.

Kefka
Ignis
Yuffie
Basch

Stormfront seems to go beyond the limits of peak "violently misanthropic sociopath" (which that write up seems to be consistent with) but open to arguments.

I often play Loki turn 4 or even 5 so I'm not sure that really kills him for me

RikkuAlmighty posted...

would 4/3 render Sauron useless?

He would only get 2 turns tops to play his stuff unless you ramped into him feels like a bad change

Ryu
Ryu
Trevor

Squall
Laguna
Zack
Vanille