Lurker > Epyo

The grand finals was fantastic. As close as it gets, went all the way to map 7, which was an absolute nail-biter.

I'll defend the rain a little bit, mostly as devil's advocate:

• Climbing is super overpowered without rain--you can avoid any open world combat encounter by climbing around it. It's the #1 solution to any problem. The prime example is the winding path that leads to Zora's Domain, it's meant to be a long combat gauntlet, but with climbing, there's zero reason to experience any of it, climbing past is purely better. So they added perma-rain there.
• It's meant to be a game about changing your mind and getting distracted. You were heading toward something, but now it's raining, so you look around, and say "hey what's this big rock over here" and you check it out. A new adventure interrupts your current adventure!
• Rain means that often, a straight line is definitely NOT the best path from A to B. This makes you care about the world and its terrain more, forcing you to adapt. It's like how in World of Warcraft, as soon as you unlock flying, the game feels a lot less immersive. So the devs always hold back flying for the first ~year of any expansion.
• You can still climb in the rain, if you try hard enough. You start to get a feel for when the Slipping occurs, and if you do a Dash Upward right before the Slip, you don't lose any progress, and now you can do ~3 more seconds of climbing before the next Slip.

TeamRocketElite posted...

I forgot that reflecting lasers with my shield was a thing so the Ganon fight was quite an ordeal for me. As such, I was happy to discover the second part of the fight was pretty easy.

I'm too bad at timing to reflect lasers, but I think Garuk's Protection reflected 'em often enough for me. (Or maybe I abused the auto-reflect shield, that's what I did on later playthroughs anyway...)

To me, the fun of koroks is the pleasant surprise of spotting one out of the corner of your eye. So to me, intentionally hunting for them is the opposite of the fun part. Same with wearing the mask, which literally spoils the surprise of them, since it warns you "HEY korok nearby! look for it!"

Great job! Yeah you're not missing much going back to beat Ganon again, as long as you watched that final memory, you're good I think.

I also recommend the DLC, next time you're in the mood! Mostly DLC2: "The Champion's Ballad", which has a lot of the game's best individual pieces of content.

DLC1 is meh, I'm not into that one, a combat dungeon that's too hard IMO.

Hehe yeah everyone walks into the boss fight accidentally. There must have been some reason they designed it that way. But I disagree with it, big flaw IMO.

The rules for durability cost of Shield Surfing are actually pretty fascinating and well-designed! I really wish the game explained them better, 'cause yeah, who enjoys breaking shields.

But if you want one particularly helpful cool tip about durability and shield surfing, click this: there's no durability cost to surfing on snow, sand, AND, dirt paths!! The dirt paths are the interesting one IMO. Although if you jump a lot while shield surfing, that still causes some durability loss, even on those surfaces. There are some other things to learn but I think that's the main helpful thing.

The cooking system also has some really well-designed details the game never tells you either, and I wish it did, because it woulda been a lot more fun. Even though the fundamentals it does tell you are pretty fun.

Yeah that's definitely what they were trying to do, but personally my interpretation of those quests on my first playthrough, was:

• "oh ok, they're reminding me I can go beat the game early if I want to"
• or "oh ok, this is like an endgame quest, stuff to do after I've beated the game I bet"
• or "oh ok, they want to annoy me by making me get halfway through the final dungeon, and then I have to back out and do it all over, typical video game BS".

That last one might be 'cause I played too much early World of Warcraft, where there are constantly annoying quests that ask you to go halfway into a dungeon, exit, turn it in, then go back inside to do the next quest, all only to annoy you.

Count me in the "i was ready to finish the game and basically skipped exploring the castle and went straight for the end, and didn't truly appreciate it until my 2nd playthrough" camp

Thanks!!!

Boomer shooters are cool! A lot of them are permadeath-based roguelikes, which I'm rarely in the mood for. Once I die in a game and have to replay levels that don't feel sufficiently different the second time, I usually don't come back.

But I like "Dusk" a lot (it's on the list!). I tried "Amid Evil" but wasn't crazy about it. I'm waiting for "Graven" to come out of early access, 'cause it looks like a great Hexen successor. "Hands of Necromancy" looks cool, it uses the GZDoom engine and is also very Hexen-like.

Ultimately though when I'm in the mood for comfy retro single player FPS shooting, it's very likely that I'll just play some classic Doom, or find some fanmade classic doom levels (or replay my favorites), since I'm guaranteed to enjoy that, rather than try something new on Steam that I know isn't going to be quite what I want.

CassandraCain posted...

...I finally finished reading through your list (got distracted and forgot about it for a few days oops), very entertaining write-ups! As with seemingly everyone else here, you introduced me to some new games that I'd like to try. First of which was Edith Finch.

I've never played a narrative game like this before as I typically prefer games with some form of action. You got me interested though, and I've been meaning to expand on my range of genre. Glad I did, what a hauntingly beautiful game. I felt stark emotional nostalgia the moment I first walked into the house.

And the sequence with the guy's imagination taking over, holy crap.

Yeah I would never play a game like this normally, but a streamer I regularly watch played it and I loved watching it, and then I played it myself a couple years later. Just goes to show, you should never write off a game, no matter the genre!

Hell yeah the imagination sequence is great, in fact IIRC it was giantbomb.com's pick for "Best Moment In A Game" during their goty awards that year (actually no just checked, it was their #3 best moment).

The "flipbook" sequence also gives me chills to think about, for some reason.

Epyo posted...

In addition, at least 40% of this video is not even directly about the game, but rather, about life itself. Maybe even 50% or 60% of it (I'm not done yet). I don't think he's even mentioned anything about the game in the past couple of hours.

Oops I was wrong about this, the video eventually circled back to being about the game. So maybe like 33% was not about the game.

Anyway, great video! I found it meaningful.

I was worried that season 2 would be too different than season 1, but it's pretty much the same, but perhaps more poetic this time, seems like...

The textual jokes that you have to pause the video to read, seem to be gone though. I liked those.

I'm enjoying this one more than the Tokimeki one, which I thought was only OK.

This game's very fascinating, I love it, even though I haven't heard of it until just now. It's also very easy to understand, I feel like I've basically played it already, just through his taking it apart.

In addition, at least 40% of this video is not even directly about the game, but rather, about life itself. Maybe even 50% or 60% of it (I'm not done yet). I don't think he's even mentioned anything about the game in the past couple of hours.

I've been watching this premiere, and it's so weird watching one of these without knowing how long it is. I think it's been 5 hours so far and I thought it was definitely gonna end 2 hours ago.

There's an amazing number of solutions to that tower... here's the most boring one everyone forgets: you can just cryonis your way across.

Oh I've never heard of anyone keeping the shrine detector on all game (until now), I thought it was unanimously despised for its annoying noise!

My understanding, personally, is that video game publishing is really just gambling.

• As a publisher, you have a lot of money, and you want to gamble to convert it into more money.
• So, you search for an incomplete game, that has the most promise of success, and you throw a flat amount of money at it, in exchange for a large percent of the final profits.
• Because the money you spend is a known flat amount, but the final profits could be astronomical, it's a fair bet that you're going to turn your money into more money...
• ...as long as you're good at predicting which games will succeed!!

So from that perspective, I think it's totally fair that dunkey could be good at this. It seems to me, all you need is money, and ability to know whether a game will be successful.

What's this "flat amount of money" the publisher might be throwing at an incomplete game?

• Marketing money I guess, although it's unclear how much this actually costs. You can probably just throw review keys at reviewers, and some press kits.
• Giving up-front money to the developers, before the game is out, so they can keep working on the game full-time, instead of having to have other jobs.

I think the nice thing Dunkey will provide for developer he works with, is that, when his company sends press kits to reviewers, they'll actually open the email, because dunkey is famous. That's a pretty huge benefit.

eaglesarebeasts posted...

Your bump got me to reading this whole list for the first time. Really fun list Epyo! Love seeing Rush 2049. I havent thought about that game in ages but as a kid we would play the trick stages for hours.

Lol same, my family would crank up the stunt mode time limit to like 20 minutes or whatever the maximum was, and that time would just fly by!

keep in mind, the number listed on a weapon is its damage per hit, not its damage per second

Kotetsu534 posted...

Great list, fun to read. Shame Onimusha 3 didn't make the list - if ever a game needed a remake/re-release, that's one.

Thanks for reading! ...For real though!! I'm guessing the Onimusha 1 remake probably didn't sell that well, and Onimusha 3 wasn't even a big deal when it came out, so it's probably not gonna happen... Weirder things have happened though.

Onimusha 1 is not that good though, they really should have done 3...

Boring story, do not read:

I've been on a quest for like a decade, to re-play Onimusha 3 to confirm it's as cool as I remember. My original PS2 stopped reading discs in like 2009, so I bought a brand new one around 2014, with the intent to mainly play the ps2 tony hawk games, castlevania games, katamari games, and Onimusha 3.

Then I realized my brother took my Onimusha 3 (ok fine, it was his all along), and it took me a while to remember the game existed and go buy another one.

By the time I got around to playing it (years)...my TV broke. It took me another year (of laziness) to get around to buying a new TV... But I accidentally got one that doesn't have the ports in the back my PS2 cables need. (I hate buying smart tvs so I always buy the worst TV possible.)

Then I procrastinated for another year or two to buy a new cable to hook the PS2 straight into my PC monitor, because screw TVs. That didn't work, so then six months later, I bought another one.

By this time it's been like 6 years, so this newer PS2 gets disc read errors too, for many games, including Onimusha 3. I've had browser tabs open forever, on ways to open up the PS2 and try to fix disc read errors, and I'm still procrastinating on that. (I remember trying some fix on the original PS2 and it was still janky afterwards.)

So yeah, this is why backwards compatibility and/or porting games is important! I had a PS4 throughout this entire story, they should have let me play Onimusha 3 on it!!

dammit now I'm watching cheers again. wow the first episode really held up

her insufferability is the fun of it!

Ohhh thanks for the nice words and thanks for reading everyone!

And please do make more lists like this, anyone reading this--it is my favorite part of Board 8. I think the first one I read, was one by Not Dave like 10 years ago, probably NES only, and I think Metal Storm was at the top, which was such a weird pick, was very fun.

Anyway sure, I've got some honorable mentions bonus content!

-----------------

These first 2 probably would have made the list if I had thought of them in time, but I didn't:

Big Brain Academy: Brain vs. Brain (Switch) (Just really good solo short minigames that are fun to get better at.)

Wiz 'n' Liz (Genesis Version) (Super weird game, love the feature where you mix any two fruits together, and something crazy happens for each combination, like you get to play "SPLAT THOSE DUDES" minigame.)

------------------

This honorable mention probably would have made the list, but I haven't played it in like 12 years because my PS2s never can read the disc, so I can't confirm it's as good as I remember:

Onimusha 3: Demon Siege (PS2) (I'm pretty sure I love this Day of the Tentacle esque time travel action game, especially the Mont-Saint-Michel level.)

-------------------

And these honorable mentions I had in the list at some point, but just missed the #100 mark:

Warlords (Arcade Version) (Really underrated classic local-multiplayer competitive pong-like game.)

Lethal League (PC) (The closest thing to a fighting game I've ever liked.)

Super Meat Boy (Used to like it, but after [#9] Celeste, I will never go back.)

Blazing Lazers (Turbografx) (Another favorite vertical shmup of mine, but not quite as good as [#60] Lords of Thunder.)

--------------------

And here is the lost Mario Galaxy 2 write-up that I finished writing when it was #75 or whatever it was, and then I changed my mind and removed it from the list entirely:

Super Mario Galaxy 2

Visually, it's a masterpiece. They made outer space look even cooler than it already is. The gravity mechanics are so brilliant, that it's hard to be interested in other 3d platformers after playing this one.

I adore the game, but... the game never keeps me interested for super long. The levels feel pretty linear. Which could be fine if there are really interesting obstacles to overcome...but there rarely are. And if there *is* something difficult, well, if you fail, you're gonna get sent back to a checkpoint, which can be pretty far away! Suddenly I wanna take a break and never come back.

Which I think is a big recurring problem with the game--there are too many opportunities to quit playing. After every star, you get sent back to the hub, which takes forever, then from there you get sent to the map, then *finally* you're back in a level...but a lot of the levels are like 2 minutes long! Now you have to do it all again!! (Galaxy 1 was even worse about this, i HATE that Galaxy 1 hub.)

Also the bee suit just SUCKS. Kinda ruins the game with how boring it is.

Masterpiece anyway tho.

okay time to end it

#1 Doom (Classic)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/5/AABIPnAADon5.jpg

FPS games really only got worse after Doom. Games gave you fewer and fewer enemies to fight at once. Monster variety got much worse, infighting removed. Dodging projectiles went away. Looking up and down is actually bad--it inspired devs to introduce skill/precision mechanics, like headshots, that are overpowered compared to pure player tactics and wit!

I believe, in a list like this, you can't pick a #1 for its story, or its graphics, or its addictive RPG stat-building, etc. Those are all fun things, and can get a game high on a list! But #1's gotta be all about the gameplay, because that's what makes gaming special. Preferrably juicy action gameplay.

Yep, I really think it's the best playing FPS that exists, right now!! (Ehh maybe only in a modern port of the game, like "GZDoom", in software rendering mode, 144+ fps, jumping disabled, no looking up/down.)

OK, Doom 1 & 2's level design, is not always amazing. However, I'm including custom level packs and mods in this #1 ranking (since the devs designed the game to support these!). And Doom's community has produced 30 years of masterful level design--a community that is stronger than ever, even today!!

OK, nostalgia MIGHT be at play here--from age like 6 to 14, Doom was pretty much all I thought about, every day, all day. When we first got the internet when I was ~12, the first thing I wanted to do was download custom doom levels.

In fact, I think I owe my adult career in software development, to doom. I learned how to write code, when I was learning to make custom doom levels when I was 12-14 years old, and I wanted to use zdoom's scripting language to improve my levels!

BEST LEVEL: Limiting myself to just Doom 1, I'll go with E3M6, Mt. Erebus. It's a really interesting design, just a very wide open, non-linear level, of islands and buildings, in a lava lake. Big fights against hordes! And the first ever rocket jump secret.

Yeah it's not a game about combat, IMO, not for me anyway. It's a reset on what an action adventure is. In a real adventure, you wouldn't want to fight every enemy you see, it's dangerous and a drain on resources. ...But this is not how most video games have trained us.

azuarc posted...

18 years. Good lord, has WoW really been out that long? (Spoilers: it has.)

The scarier part is that I had more hours /played on EverQuest in TWO years than that. And then I moved on to WoW at launch...albeit I played far less than 12 hours per day.

Lolllllll OMG that is a lot. Man, something about EQ seems really dangerous. My brother also had a pretty outrageous amount of EQ hours in the times before WoW, dunno if it was as much as yours though. But indeed a scary amount.

They screwed up all the classes, the starting areas I knew were destroyed from Cataclysm. Maybe it was still good to the people playing it then, but it absolutely ruined my nostalgia.

Yeah I definitely felt like a piece of my soul was taken away, when they reworked my favorite zones in cataclysm. E.g. barrens, silverpine, stv.

Now that I think about it, I half-heartedly played all those mid-era WoW expansions, but I didn't really start loving modern WoW again, until Classic came out. Maybe I was finally able to forgive them after that. (These days I play both classic and modern wow, I'm fully onboard with both.)

DragonGargoyle posted...

I've only played the game a little bit like a decade ago, but I still remember the atmosphere/aesthetics/character designs. I was mostly playing as a Draenei during MoP, idk if that's one the stronger places aesthetically, but I loved it

If you got to the actual Pandaria continent in MoP, yeah that was really popular aesthetically, all the cool east asian architecture and landscape.

I wonder what #2 and #1 games are, that are able to top something like that lol

Yeah it's interesting that my #2 and #1 I haven't played as much. But I bet that's true of most people's lists huh!!

And just for fun, I decided to think about my most-played games and where they are on the list:

I think my 2nd most-played game is Team Fortress 2 (29th on the list), around 2300 hours

I think my 3rd most-played game is probably Minecraft (63rd on the list), but only if we count how much I've watched it on Youtube, which is a LOT.

I think my 4rd most-played is be the #1 game on the list, no idea how many hours though.

I think my 5th most-played game is Overwatch (12th on the list) at around 600 hours. Although hmmmm, I've watched hundreds of hours of streams, and Overwatch League... this might actually add up to more than TF2.

I think my 6th most played game is #2 on the list, at around 300 hours (plus probably ~150 hours of streams watched).

----------------------------------------------

#2 Zelda: Breath of the Wild

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/0/AABIPnAADoca.jpg

We're all sick of talking about Breath of the Wild, so I'll make this brief.

Most of my life, I've fantasized about the idea of 3D Zelda games (or any 3D sword adventure, like Skyrim!!), until I actually sit down to play them, then I despise pretty much everything about them. The slow starts, the hand holding, the dialogue, the chests with only rupees and trash. And #1 most of all, the invisible walls.

Not literally invisible walls, but the exploration blockers. You can't sail over there yet, there's a strange wind. You can't cross that gap, you don't have the hookshot. You can't find anything in that cave yet, you don't have the QUEST. Come back later.

That's the magic of Breath of the Wild, it never tells you to "Come back later". I can finally truly WANDER.

The game design may have been punished in other ways because of this design choice...but this is the only design choice that actually mattered to me. I want to walk in the woods and find cool things, by my own self-direction!!!

BEST PART: The optional underground areas of Hyrule Castle. Lots of rad secrets to find, it's like a little castlevania game down there, complete with crazy good castlevania-worthy music.

MrSmartGuy posted...

Oh yeah, since you've hit upon another game in my top 10, I get to shamelessly link to the write-up I did for it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79323228?page=1#100

If you have any interest in watching someone else's experience going through Outer Wilds, Vinny from Vinesauce has an incredibly entertaining playthrough of it, and Materwelonz's is very thought-provoking and insightful. Would highly recommend.

Oh yeah, I've watched 3-ish streamers play through outer wilds, it's almost as fun as playing it! That's how I get my continued enjoyment of games after I've beaten um. Not a fan of vinesauce, but maybe I'd like the other one. Maybe it's about time for another watchthrough.

-------------------------------

warning: my last 3 picks are pretty boring

#3 World of Warcraft

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/3/9/AABIPnAADoYf.jpg

So hard to make a write-up for this game, since it's by far my most played game, at 5,030 hours by my last check, over the last 18 years. I guess I'll try to pick just 3 things!

1: The timelessly beautiful art design, of the zones and characters. It's like a pixar movie but better. Over the years, the self-hating fanbase has denounced (fairly) pretty much every aspect of the game, EXCEPT, the art. Nobody ever has a bad word to say about the art! And it just gets better and better!

2: The zone/map system... I loooove entering a new WoW zone for the first time, seeing all the cool sights, and slowly uncovering its beautiful illustrated map as I devour the content.

3: The classes. The devs talk about how important the "Class Fantasy" is to the game's ongoing success, and they're so right. All the classes feel lovable and unique, and there's basically an impressive ~40 of them, now that each class is divided into 2-4 "specs" each of which might as well be a separate class!

BEST LOOKING LEVEL: "Best level" is too hard, so I'll instead choose "best looking", which is definitely "Revendreth" from the latest Shadowlands expansion. It's a zone made entirely out of castles. Instead of terrain...it's castles. How did they do it???

#4 Infantry Online

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/5/AABIPnAADoNB.jpg

(Sadly, the official servers were taken down, so you cannot play this game anymore. It is a genuine source of depression for me =/)

This was a top-down isometric class-based shooter, online-only, but with HUGE player counts. We're talking on the scale of 50v50 per match, all on one huge map. And yet, it was made in 1999! It's a mystery of life, how perfectly the game played, despite all of us playing on 56k modems.

It had the only "CTF" game mode rules I've ever enjoyed: your team has to collect the 4 flags, bring them together, then drop them and defend them while they're on the ground for ~3 full minutes, to win. So inevitably you'd drop 'em in any ol' random building, summon everybody, build some turrets, and let the huge battle begin!

OK, now listen to the "CTFX" game mode's rules: same as "CTF", but like 10 teams, with like 8 people each. SO COOL.

The "Gravball" game mode was soccer, with guns...and also you're all on motorcycles??? There were like 15 such awesome game modes.

Meanwhile, each game mode had its own RPG progression between rounds: you'd unlock new classes, buy consumables, and buy and equip weapons. There were like, hundreds of weapons per game mode.

BEST LEVEL: "Mechanized Skirmish at Kliest's Ridge". It used a variant of the above CTF rules, but only immovable flags. Also featured really fun ridable tanks and mechs!

#5 Doom (2016)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/6/5/AABIPnAADoK1.jpg

FPS should be the greatest genre, but designers are so bad at making them. Over the 90s and 00s, they kept getting slower and slower, introducing reloading, headshots, no dodging projectiles, a lot of turtling and sniping from far behind cover.

Doom 2016 completely threw away the playbook and fixed everything about the FPS genre. Speed is BACK, dodging projectiles is BACK, fighting hordes is kinda BACK, secrets are BACK, monster variety is EXTREMELY BACK. And unexpectedly great innovations like glory kills, push forward gameplay, and chainsawing for ammo!

But the #1 reason this is up here, is the synergy of the music and gameplay. The big arena fights are as thrilling as the climactic part of Celeste, but it happens every 10 minutes! This is some SICK METAL, and I love how it dynamically resolves as you finish off the last enemy.

Also I like the story a lot, the opening shoving of the monitor, and other similar bits, really speak to me, and my feelings towards too much story in games.

BEST LEVEL: Level 3, the Foundry, a big cool non-linear 3 dimensional building of catwalks and lava, to explore and conquer in any order you want.

#6 Peggle Nights

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/3/AABIPnAADn_j.jpg

Not sure if I've ever heard of someone not liking Peggle.

My first time through Adventure Mode was a casual game delight. I liked the art, the presentation, the sounds (like Ode to Joy, and how the peg sound effects keep going up in pitch, during a combo!!). I liked the ways to get free balls, especially balls from the excellent scoring system.

But it's when I tried out the game's more difficult content, that I really fell in love. Finishing the game's 60 "challenge levels", is one of my favorite video game achievements. I shed a tear when it gave me a giant in-game trophy for it. I really needed that trophy.

You can't just look up a solution to solve the game's harder content, since it's all semi-procedurally generated. Even guides are barely helpful. You just have to have the skill at "eyeballin' it", and making the right mildly strategic decisions.

It is a strategic and skill-based game, BUT, without all the learning and knowledge need to play most strategy games. AND, without all the dexterity needed for skill-based action games! It's an "easy to learn, lifetime to master" casual game masterpiece. (With no time pressure!! Yesss.)

CRAP I didn't have time to talk about how cool the owl's Zen Ball ability is!!!

BEST CHALLENGE LEVEL: The final one, The Decathlon, which hands you 10 random levels, and you must beat them all without failing any of them. It's like a shorter, permadeath version of Adventure Mode. Heckin exciting.

Woops! well here's outer wilds again. it deserves two posts anyways

#8 The Outer Wilds (and DLC)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/4/AABIPnAADnyc.jpg

Admittedly, Outer Wilds is NOT for everyone. It's self-directed exploration, to a fault. You have to WANT to like it, to WANT to crash your ship and die over and over, to WANT to decide what to investigate next.

But, most people who do want those things, usually end up agreeing, "yep, that might be the best game ever made."

Outer Wilds fixes the "Myst" genre, by having a mystery that is awesome. Like awe-inspiring. Many pieces of the story you uncover are eureka moments, and then they miraculously make it all of it fit together, to 100% perfect satisfaction.

But who cares if the story is good if you're not having fun right away? Well luckily, the game's planets are breathtaking FEATS of imagination and programming. This game gave me the shivers far more often than any horror genre game, just using the astonishing power of nature and physics (and music?).

The DLC is a great addition, maybe even better than the main game. It has some unique tricks up its sleeve that are pretty mind-blowing! Unfortunately, it's common to get stuck, and also the gameplay loop can be annoying. But that's worth looking past, IMO!

BEST PART: My worst goosebumps came from ||spacewalking at the sun station||. It was fundamentally scary, like a fear of heights, or a fear of the bottom of the ocean.

Well then you probably didn't like THIS myst-like either!

#7 The Witness

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/2/9/AABIPnAADn8N.jpg

Humanity's had a fascination with mazes for a long time, and as a kid I was really into maze books. The problem is, mazes are kinda dumb! But The Witness finally found a way to make mazes actually good puzzles.

I don't really have much to say about the Witness. It's here because of its ~600 really good little bite-sized logic puzzles, that use maze puzzle mechanics I found very unique and satisfying. If you have a good puzzle, your game rules. And if you have, say, 600, your game is an all-time classic.

This does solve a different slight problem with Myst-like games: in those games, there is no consistent interface for puzzles, so you never quite know if you're looking at a puzzle, or what all the inputs are. Not a problem here: if there is a square panel, then there is a puzzle. Simple as that. It is the fairest point and click adventure ever.

There's a secret optional gameplay mechanic (no spoilers), and it's one of my favorite game mechanics ever... But once again, I don't think the game even needed it! It's very cool and legendary though. Especially the fact that you might never find it!

BEST LEVEL: "The Challenge", featuring In the Hall of the Mountain King. A clever climactic last boss.

You should try again!! The main story campaign is quite short, and the later chapters are really neato.

UltimaterializerX posted...

What a write up. Nicely said.

You always, always know when a game was made with love.

Thanks, I appreciate it! Uggg these are really hard to write.

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#8 The Outer Wilds (and DLC)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/4/AABIPnAADnyc.jpg

Admittedly, Outer Wilds is NOT for everyone. It's self-directed exploration, to a fault. You have to WANT to like it, to WANT to crash your ship and die over and over, to WANT to decide what to investigate next.

But, most people who do want those things, usually end up agreeing, "yep, that might be the best game ever made."

Outer Wilds fixes the "Myst" genre, by having a mystery that is awesome. Like awe-inspiring. Many pieces of the story you uncover are eureka moments, and then they miraculously make it all of it fit together, to 100% perfect satisfaction.

But who cares if the story is good if you're not having fun right away? Well luckily, the game's planets are breathtaking FEATS of imagination and programming. This game gave me the shivers far more often than any horror genre game, just using the astonishing power of nature and physics (and music?).

The DLC is a great addition, maybe even better than the main game. It has some unique tricks up its sleeve that are pretty mind-blowing! Unfortunately, it's common to get stuck, and also the gameplay loop can be annoying. But that's worth looking past, IMO!

BEST PART: My worst goosebumps came from ||spacewalking at the sun station||. It was fundamentally scary, like a fear of heights, or a fear of the bottom of the ocean.

#9 Celeste

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/7/7/AABIPnAADnwd.jpg

Throughout this list, I've been advocating (begging) for more high quality "action games without combat", and I reckon Celeste is the all-time champion of this genre.

Sure, gameplay-wise, it's basically another IWTBTG, Super Meat Boy, etc. But Celeste's level of polish, is what blows me away. The pixel art, the difficulty (high skill but forgiving!), the soundtrack, the story, the atmosphere...

...Not only are those elements 10/10 individually, but they synergize super well--the dynamic music changes almost every screen, the story twists are impressively well-represented in the gameplay and mechanics, the atmosphere matches the story beats and climaxes, etc. I've never seen a game so cohesive.

It might be my favorite video game story. You can say it's just another game about anxiety or something, but I say it's about ANY type of internal conflict. That's a hard thing to make a game about. I only love stories if they're highly relatable, and this one is.

BEST LEVEL: Chapter 6, Reflection. The 3 threads of story, gameplay, and music, all come together with perfect synergy, for one of the most thrilling climaxes I can think of in video games.

Well, TBH you didn't miss much with Heretic, I kinda hate Heretic. It's really just Doom but uglier, and with consumables, that make you feel bad if you hoard them and never use them, OR also make you feel bad if you use them and waste them.

----------------------------------

last castlevania of the list!

#10 Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/3/3/AABIPnAADnuN.jpg

What's up with that telescope at the bottom of the Outer Wall? And the bird nest there, too? What's up with the chapel confessional? What the HECK is up with the Diplocephalus creatures in Marble Gallery? What in the world is a granfalloon?

Every room you enter, you have no idea what you're going to get. My hunch is that Konami gathered a handful of immensely passionate and creative artists+programmers, and pretty much said "I dunno, do whatever you want, have fun!" And with glee, they delivered a MESS of creativity, with seemingly no central leadership!

Just look at Alucard's walk animation. Somebody really, really, really, poured their heart and soul into that. That wasn't somebody just getting paid.

The soundtrack as well, it's all over the place--nobody was telling Michiru Yamane what to do, she just did wtf she wanted. AND IT OWNS. Another top 5 game soundtrack.

There are downsides too though. The game's balance is whack, and where to go next is never clear. The pause menus are a prototype, presumably because nobody cared to work on it. But the creative beauty of the game overpowers all of this!

BEST LEVEL: Impossible question...I will go with the Royal Chapel. Fighting up that 10-screen long staircase and up all those crow-infested towers, are interesting challenges.

I worked so hard to make this write-up not long, but it's still a bit long. I love this game too much!

#11 Hexen

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/5/2/AABIPnAADne4.jpg

Hexen is the combination of (1) Castlevania 3, (2) Metroid Prime, and (3) Doom.

(1) The aesthetic is very Castlevania 3: grim and gothic, with dark caves, ruins, gritty castles, magical weapons, and hordes of strange fantasy creatures to kill. It also has 3 different classes, for extra replay value--also very Castlevania 3!

(2) The exploring is like Metroid Prime. Each of the 5 acts, is its own little Metroidvania of like 4 or 5 interconnected levels. Reaching a new act is SUPER FUN, usually 1-2 hours of non-stop exploring, fighting, and gathering keys! THEN the annoying part, hunting for the last key you need to unlock the next act.

(3) Lastly, it's an FPS on the Doom engine, and I just love the way that engine looks and feels, especially modern high framerate versions like GZDoom.

Hexen has my favorite weapons of any shooter, period. The best example is the Cleric's "Wraithverge". It shoots out a group of violent screaming ghosts, which chase down hordes of enemies, pretty much one-shotting anything they pass through. It's ridiculous.

I hated this game first ~3 times I tried it, but I'm glad I kept trying, because now I play it like once a year!

BEST ACT: The expansion's first act, "Blight". It feels so huge! You're fighting and exploring for like 2.5 hours, totally directionless, without running out of threads to follow. What game does that?? There's also a cave level, and Hexen has great caves.

The ilios pit level is totally genius, definitely a contender for best map. Just a hilarious time!!

#12 Overwatch

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/1/7/AABIPnAADncx.jpg

In a vacuum, removing all context, and removing all other players, Overwatch should be around #5 on this list.

The characters are irresistably lovable, from their personalities, to their looks, and jaw droppingly cool cosmetic skins--and of course their really cool guns and abilities, which are strategically facsinating, super satisfying, and there are tons of 'em.

The superior engine make it very hard to go back to Team Fortress 2. OW at 240fps feels better than real life.

The maps are gorgeously detailed and very well-designed gameplay-wise, IMO even the worst OW maps, are better designs than the best TF2 maps, which were absurdly chokepointy.

(Exception: actually TF2's koth_harvest_final is still my fav KOTH map, of either game.)

However...we're not in that vacuum. The community takes the game way too seriously, and the obsession with "team composition" is so annoying (I blame the game's design itself); and there's this whole Overwatch 2 debacle, starving Overwatch 1 of content for years. (I do have extremely high hopes for OW2 PVE modes if they ever actually come out, though!!)

BEST LEVEL: So hard to choose!! But I will go with a free for all deathmatch map, "Chteau Guillard", a beautiful mansion at an autumnal lake. It's a surprisingly intricate house, and fun to learn how the various floors connect.

Yeah I've heard that a lot, maybe it's not for everyone!

I will say, I'm not 100% sure I necessarily LOVE the ff7r combat... But rather, I find the combat very engaging--like, easy to learn, really hard to master.

Even after playing through it twice, and watching a couple streamers play through as well (that's how I re-enjoy games I really like), I still walk out of half my battles, saying to myself "welp...that coulda gone better", and then diving into menus to see if I wanna tweak anything.

...Also Cloud's sword sound effect rocks IMO.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

It's a guy at the stable near the forest's entrance. Forgot which one.

tcaz2 posted...

Yeah definitely, I did it first try myself because of an NPC telling me.

Well this supports my hypothesis that every tricky mechanic in the game is explained either by a loading screen tip OR by some obscure NPC

OK let's finish off the day with an actual GOOD game

#13 Castlevania: Rondo of Blood

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/0/AABIPnAADnQU.jpg

The most insidious classic Castlevania enemy, is NOT the Medusa Head. It's the Crow. Crows follow some 500 IQ algorithm, that geniusly avoids your every attack.

But in Rondo of Blood... *every enemy acts like a Crow*!!! They all move and act by considering YOUR position, so they all feel galaxy brain at juking you and spacing you.

This makes the combat extra rewarding; you really can't play on auto-pilot, you have to watch the enemy, and keep re-positioning yourself, to juke them back. No janky gimmicks necessary, like lock-on, dodge rolls, invincibility frames. Just careful self positioning, and striking at the right moment.

So yeah the combat rocks, but then add one of the best soundtracks ever, some great cool pixel art, some godlike parallax (I looove me some parallax), some Castlevania atmosphere, and an astounding number of secrets (probably more than 50% of the game's content is "secret"), and you've got a masterpiece.

BEST LEVEL: Alternate Level 2, it's a long bridge level with lots of parallax, and the sun slowly sets while you play. Also there are TWO secret exits, what?? Also the song, "Cross a Fear", is awesome.

I just like to think of Tower Defense as a sub-genre of RTS, that way I can say there are plenty of games I like in the RTS genre. ...'Cause without tower defense, it's hard to think of any :(

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#14 Final Fantasy 7: Remake

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/3/1/AABIPnAADnNX.jpg

I love remakes, and I'd probly say FF7R is the best remake ever. They made the best FF7 stuff bigger and better (Midgar), and threw out the rest (everything after Midgar).

It's kinda hard to go back to other ARPG combat after FF7R. You're swapping between characters mid-battle, each with a vastly different fighting style and unique abilities; you're constantly refining your materia loadout between every battle; you're analyzing the best strategy for every new enemy type you encounter. It's hard, so it's worth diving into the systems!!

I didn't know it was possible to make characters in a video game *this likable*. The main characters' models are the best looking I've ever seen in a game, and their personalities are super lovable. They did a much better job bringing out Aerith's silly personality.

Most of all Barret, I thought was a lame charicature in the original; but here, I fist pumped whenever he'd give one of his environmentalist speeches (regardless of their corninesss or naivety). One of my favorite moments in the game is when Barret gives one of these speeches, alone, to the player really, before walking into the game's finale.

I also thought the story "changes" they made, away from the original, were 100% genius, but I don't want to spoil those.

BEST PART: Chapter 4, a brand new big sneaking mission, with just Cloud, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. They're a riot in this game, I love them.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

This is the coolest concept for lost woods Ive seen maybe. Follow the direction of the wind, an NPC says.

Wait, what? Are you sure an NPC said this? I've played this game 3 times, and I've watched streamers play it like 5 times, and I've never seen such a thing.

I kinda would be glad to know if it existed, 'cause about 50% of people I've talked to have gotten fully stumped by this puzzle.

Oh! Page 5! Time for a recap:

100-Winigolf
99-Fall Guys
98-Desktop Tower Defense
97-Desert Golfing
96-Riven
95-Minesweeper
94-Unpacking
93-Doom 3
92-Golf Peaks
91-Hydro Thunder
90-Zelda: A Link to the Past
89-Dusk
88-Trials Evolution
87-Yoku's Island Express
86-Darwinia
85-Wii Sports Resort (Mostly Table Tennis)
84-Sonic Adventure 2
83-Day of the Tentacle
82-Alba: A Wildlife Adventure
81-Pac-Man Arrangement (Arcade Version)
80-Ristar (Genesis Version)
79-Stardew Valley
78-Forager
77-Splatoon
76-Duck Game
75-Super Mario Maker
74-San Francisco Rush 2049 (Dreamcast)
73-F-Zero GX
72-Trackmania (2020 Version)
71-Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
70-Resident Evil: VIIIage
69-World of Goo
68-Metroid Zero Mission
67-Metroid Fusion
66-Halo
65-Defense Grid: The Awakening
64-A Short Hike
63-Minecraft
62-Metroid Prime
61-Doom Eternal
60-Lords of Thunder (Turbografx CD Version)
59-Pokemon Snap
58-Diablo 3
57-Graceful Explosion Machine
56-WarioWare, Inc: Mega Microgame$
55-Boktai: The Sun Is In Your Hand
54-Hearthstone
53-What Remains of Edith Finch
52-Super Mario World
51-Metal Gear Solid V
50-New Super Mario Bros. U
49-Mario Kart 8: Deluxe
48-Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
47-Golf Story
46-Sonic Mania
45-Into the Breach
44-Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
43-Resident Evil 4
42-Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
41-Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
40-Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
39-Overcooked!
38-Bubble Bobble (NES Version)
37-Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
36-Jackbox Party Pack (all)
35-Resident Evil 2 (2019)
34-Metal Gear Solid 2
33-Contradiction: Spot the Liar!
32-Steep
31-Rollercoaster Tycoon
30-Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil
29-Team Fortress 2
28-Castlevania III
27-Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon
26-Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
25-Klonoa: Door to Phantomile
24-Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (PS2)
23-Shadowhand
22-Hades
21-We <3 Katamari
20-Tunic
19-Mini Motorways
18-Final Fantasy 7
17-Portal 2
16-Plants vs. Zombies

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A couple of boring picks are up next though:

#15 Super Mario Odyssey

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/7/6/AABIPnAADnH0.jpg

Mario Odyssey takes the idea of a childhood "easter egg hunt" and applies it to wide open mario playgrounds, but with SO many cleverly placed eggs, you start laughing by the end of the game, when you realize every 10 square feet had at least seven eggs.

I especially love how the game is structured like Tony Hawk's Underground: you globetrot across the world to various themed kingdoms, which are really just giant platforming playgrounds, where you accomplish minor challenges totally at your leisure, or just chill out and jump around on things.

And similar to Tony Hawk's Underground: crucially, you are NOT pulled out of the level after you do anything. Getting pulled out of levels all the time, was *starting* to make mario games unplayable, especially the Mario Galaxy ones.

Lastly, huge props to some of this game's climactic moments, such as the Jump Up Superstar part, which made me completely cry. It's not sad or anything, I just found it really beautiful. Maybe I just love a good heartfelt song at the right moment. It's a great celebration of video games, and so is the game as a whole.

BEST LEVEL: Lost Kingdom, it's cool how you're marooned there, and the slime is maroon. I know most people don't like it, but I like how packed and dense it is with stuff, almost like a Captain Toad level. And I love those accordion caterpillars!

Arti posted...

Plants vs. Zombies is so addicting that I got all the achievements/trophies in it.

Three times. And the Vita list was ridiculous as it really made you do everything.

OMG that's awesome. I think I've only 100%ed one file. I think my mom has 100%ed it a few times though.

Place posted...

Man, I'm kinda upset that I wasn't already following this thread. Riven, Desert Golfing, Hydro Thunder, Pac-Man Arrangement, Mini Motorways--you got colorful taste!

A few thoughts as I was reading through. First, you mentioned offhand that the WarioWare games are too expensive on aftermarket. If you haven't already, be sure to pick up Twisted before the price climbs any higher. It's one of my all-timers; a deeply formative experience that is so unlike anything else you'll ever play. It's also the only WarioWare that really addresses the length issue by stuffing the postgame with a ton of extra content. You could play for years and still not have seen everything.

Second, I wanted to echo your appreciation of golf games. Too many great browser titles to count, but the standout for me will always be Wonderputt. It's a visual delight with a similar appeal to the Grow series, in the way that it keeps building on itself to construct the course. Veering a bit, mobile may be a nigh-infinite landscape to navigate, but the cream does have a way of rising to the top. Super Stickman Golf, its sequels, and Flappy Golf are brilliantly designed, and I've poured hours into optimizing the trickier courses. I've always thought the Noodlecake guys were super talented and it's so cool to see their work recognized with the Alto series.

Thanks for the comment!! Yeah I'm stupid for never playing Twisted, I should really do that, everyone says it rules.

Thanks for the mobile recommendations I'll definitely check those out, I'm surprised I hadn't heard about any good minigolf mobile games, on podcasts or whatever, since it's kinda the perfect platform for minigolf, isn't it...

Those are all very good points. Required secrets can be a dealbreaker, especially, IMO.

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#16 Plants vs. Zombies

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/3/3/AABIPnAADnCd.jpg

Real Time Strategy is perhaps my most-despised genre of video game. It's because of the extremely slow onboarding these games tend to have: lots of tutorializing, reading walls of text, memorizing interfaces, memorizing controls and keybinds...

AND worse: they're terrible at quickly showing you what's fun about it. The first level of Warcraft 3 makes you guide Thrall through a maze!!

Plants vs. Zombies is the polar opposite. Within about 30 seconds, you're playing the real game--but it's only ONE lane instead of FIVE lanes, so it's literally a vertical slice!

Within 30 more seconds, you've planted your second plant, and now you see what's fun: you've DOUBLED your DPS. The next zombie that comes, dies TWICE AS FAST. Now you understand you're playing the most satisfying game genre: engine building.

Each level is like FIVE MINUTES LONG. And then the next level resets the board and YOU GET TO DO IT AGAIN! Now that is engine building!

If I had to pick one game that I wish I designed, it would be PvZ. It's a little too easy though.

FAVORITE PLANT: The Chomper. It's cute when it eats a zombie and the legs are hanging out its mouth for a while.

#17 Portal 2

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/0/AABIPnAADm_w.jpg

"Secrets" are probably the most underrated aspect of video games. If games didn't have secrets, they would be far less fun. Every game should have secrets, this is my new theory.

Portal 2 is at its best, during the parts where every single step you take, *feels* like a secret. Especially the game's early levels, and in the "testing spheres" sections: it always feels like you're "not supposed to be here" and it's a miracle that you're making progress at all, thanks to clever portal use and observation.

The game's best puzzles also often feel like "finding secrets" of the mechanics. This is probably true of all physical-world puzzle games. I suppose that's why people often refer to the "aha" moment as the good part of games like this--the "aha" is the secret unfolding!

Of course, the game is also hilarious, the funniest game I can think of off the top of my head, although I bet a lot of modern indie games are pretty funny.

Gotta give props for having a separate cooperative campaign too.

BEST PUZZLE: The one where the white goo is introduced.

#18 Final Fantasy 7

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/9/8/AABIPnAADm9O.jpg

First of all, the soundtrack. #2 favorite soundtrack (#1 was earlier in the list).

I think the Materia system is very underrated. The gameplay of FF7 *is* Materia, basically. It seeps into every aspect of the game.

You find yourself caring more about your materias' xp levels, than your characters' levels!

And you find yourself using bad weapons because they have a materia levelling up multiplier, or because they have more materia slots, or junction slots. You find yourself exploring for secrets much harder, because you don't want to miss some strategy-upending unique materia.

...Then you find yourself following a 10 hour side-quest, in a 40 hour game, just to get ONE really fancy materia!

The story *as a whole*, is good, but not great. But Midgar is really good, and, there are some very impressive plot twists in the late game (not including the most famous two-word twist, which I think is actually kinda meh).

BEST PART: Midgar is one of the best openings to any game I can think of--I love how quickly you start playing, and committing terrorism!! But that whole first 5 hours rocks. I usually bounce off RPGs because of slow openings, but definitely not here.

I loooved Mini Metro, but once I played Mini Motorways I was like, I will never play Mini Metro ever again for the rest of my life.

BUT yeah it's very similar. It's pretty much the same thing but with more geometry, and you have limited concrete to build with, whereas Mini Metro didn't really have either of those variables.

So I think if you didn't like Mini Metro and you're already playing an actual full fledged city builder, you probably wouldn't care about Mini Motorways. Not 100% sure, but probably.

Ohh yes, rooted ziggurat, very good. Love the boss actually. I'd wear t-shirt with that boss on it.

Although I actually like the Quarry a lot too now that I think about it, I love how noticeably hard it is.

--------------------------

#19 Mini Motorways

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/9/2/AABIPnAADm1U.jpg

This was a holy grail game for me: I always wanted to get really into Transport Tycoon or Cities Skylines etc., but I have a terrible attention span for learning to play them. I just wanted the geometric optimization puzzle, without working through a tutorial.

Mini Motorways manages to have ZERO TUTORIALIZING. You start the game, you're playing in a few seconds. Everything you learn after the first 10 seconds, is strategy. I've shown the game to others, and they too, get it immediately, and within minutes, are coming up with great strategic tips and observations I hadn't thought of.

Like Rollercoaster Tycoon, the presentation is perfection, maybe even more. The graphic design, and the adherence to a grid, means every time you play, you are guaranteed to make something beautiful, without even trying.

And it solves a main problem with Rollercoaster Tycoon: there's actually a great puzzle here, with infinite mastery, that I enjoy thinking about while falling asleep; while RCT was probably a little too easy and sandboxy.

BEST LEVEL: I really enjoy the levels with mountains, and Rio De Janeiro has the most!