Board 8 > Simpsons Mafia topic 2: D'oh, here's your new topic!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chaeix posted...

This is my biggest concern. If Ulti is scum he gets huge benefits out of our blind faith.

extremely simple solution to this actually

if his role truly is as useless as he claims it to be then he ought to have zero reason not to agree to either 1. Visit the same (pre-determined) player every night or 2. Announce his actions ahead of time

And if it becomes necessary to question this, then any sort of movement scanner (aside from motion detector i suppose) can pick any random night and see if hes telling the truth

to question his alignment *

"It's seems very towny to me" is not only botched in itself, it's also misplaced. Refers to the 5 before.

changmas posted...

extremely simple solution to this actually

if his role truly is as useless as he claims it to be then he ought to have zero reason not to agree to either 1. Visit the same (pre-determined) player every night or 2. Announce his actions ahead of time

And if it becomes necessary to question this, then any sort of movement scanner (aside from motion detector i suppose) can pick any random night and see if hes telling the truth

i volunteer as ulti's muse

stupid sexy flanders

Chaeix posted...

I'm an idiot and don't understand this question. What part of Death's claim didn't make perfect sense? Lenny and Carl were the name and Vanilla was the 'function'? What am I missing here?

Lenny and Carl was the flavor name, not the role name.

And as my follow up clarified the role name was not vanilla, it was 'average joe's'.

Everyone else understood that interaction

ctesjbuvf posted...

What Isquen has done since we tried to push it has been useless but haven't made me like him any less, on the contrary it's not out of line with his weird town tells. I don't think I'm getting any further with this anyway

##unvote
##vote: chang

That defense of Isquen was trash, two votes pushing activity and it's suddenly we do the same d1 always even though we found out that isn't even true. Besides, he invited this vote himself.

Woohoo lets have some fun! here for a lil bit at lunch but will have to go back to work in 15ish

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Lenny and Carl was the flavor name, not the role name.

And as my follow up clarified the role name was not vanilla, it was 'average joe's'.

Everyone else understood that interaction

but why did you ask as if there was a reason vanilla was an unsatisfactory role name in the first place?

this question has nothing to do with alignment i just am dumb

Chaeix posted...

but why did you ask as if there was a reason vanilla was an unsatisfactory role name in the first place?

this question has nothing to do with alignment i just am dumb

Because I have access to my own role pm and as such I was unsatisfied with what felt like an incomplete claim.

I don't remember Chang being a blood knight player but I'm into it

Enchantress posted...

Did I misread this?

I get the part of thinking I thought red's claim was towny, but I separated him from the others there specifically because I didn't think so with him.

But I don't think I had said anything about how red refuses to claim?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because I have access to my own role pm and as such I was unsatisfied with what felt like an incomplete claim.

fair enough!

chang join me on ctes, he can't vote you any more than he already has ;_;

i know what this is going to turn into for JC so lemme nip in the bud a bit

its a sultan game so i think its super possible he did some wacky renamed roles for some people and not others, regardless of alignment

but to answer JCs question, myself and many others have renamed roles that have nothing to do with their function, so sultan also included their function afterwards. Presumably that applies to FD, lopen, and Ben (and myself) at the very least

I don't believe red's 'claim' and until he takes credit for a body I still won't. Even then I won't necessarily be convinced of alignment.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I get the part of thinking I thought red's claim was towny, but I separated him from the others there specifically because I didn't think so with him.

But I don't think I had said anything about how red refuses to claim?

That part was my own awkward sentence structure. I meant Red said he refuses to ever claim, then claimed, and people got got.

Red: I will never claim
Red: JK I'm totally vigilante no flavour
Ctes: Seems believable

But if you didn't mean to include Red in the seem towny groups, then cheerfully withdrawn

and death of course

i have (some) reason to believe that JCs lack of knowledge of that has nothing to do with his alignment

Enchantress posted...

That part was my own awkward sentence structure. I meant Red said he refuses to ever claim, then claimed, and people got got.

Red: I will never claim
Red: JK I'm totally vigilante no flavour
Ctes: Seems believable

But if you didn't mean to include Red in the seem towny groups, then cheerfully withdrawn

I think the post makes sense to read as intended if you just take out the line about Red and only consider that line by itself. Maybe I inserted that later when making the post, I'm not sure. But I definitely mentioned it might be made up when I got around to look at Red later on.

changmas posted...

i have (some) reason to believe that JCs lack of knowledge of that has nothing to do with his alignment

Do you mind if I ask you to elaborate? Because I think Lea's aversion to agreeing with Ben based on that very clear knowledge is what's making me suspicious of her.

JC seemed genuinely clueless and asked for clarification on what the whole deal with FD grilling Death over his role was about. Lea on the other hand dismissed it entirely as not a solid argument, which makes me think she knows more than she's letting on. Perhaps the scum team has a similar role name convention, and thus she knew that FD and Lopen's reactions meant nothing.

Like... it's 100% game meta, but it's a strong point in Ben's favor since this kind of role renaming is so uncommon. It's just surprising to see Lea dismiss it.

changmas posted...

i know what this is going to turn into for JC so lemme nip in the bud a bit

its a sultan game so i think its super possible he did some wacky renamed roles for some people and not others, regardless of alignment

but to answer JCs question, myself and many others have renamed roles that have nothing to do with their function, so sultan also included their function afterwards. Presumably that applies to FD, lopen, and Ben (and myself) at the very least

I did a double take with JC's reaction at first, but I agree that your theory is probably whats happening here.
I dont think any nillas are just called vanilla (vanilla), but JC claims to not be one anyway.

changmas posted...

i have (some) reason to believe that JCs lack of knowledge of that has nothing to do with his alignment

Maybe serial killer was the only role that didn't get renamed so he had no way to know?

But regarding that issue, Ulti still stands out. Like death, I have a very non standard named role. But the description of my role is very standard and directly matches the corresponding role.

Whereas 'naive neighbor' is non standard and is accompanied by something brand new mechanically.

But that's if Ulti is to be believed about his own role, which historically he is not.

(In case it wasn't obvious, Lea was the #1 suspect I mentioned before. I didn't want to call attention to it, but the cat's out of the bag about renamed roles now)

I dont doubt that scum was already aware of the renaming conventions, which actually makes me like JC a bit more here since I dont think he would feign confusion this many hours after it already happened.

I think I know what chang is getting at, and it doesnt involve SKs either.

sure Ill elaborate a little and then Ive gotta get back to work

my read on JC is still that he got a cool / fun / interesting role this game that hes excited to play out (in stark contrast to xb3 and DbD games where he got roles he actively detested).

a fun and interesting role is more likely to be something brand new or unique and thus may not be renamed at all because sultan just came up with it and it has no standard name!

so imo its not alignment indicative but its super power role indicative (but he already revealed that anyway)

Yeah that.

htaeD posted...

I think I know what chang is getting at, and it doesnt involve SKs either.

fwiw if there is a serial killer i would actually expect that role would be renamed

Kirby321 posted...

(In case it wasn't obvious, Lea was the #1 suspect I mentioned before. I didn't want to call attention to it, but the cat's out of the bag about renamed roles now)

Don't worry it was obvious

I'll make a note that the person most excited about a chang lynch was chang.

Kirby321 posted...

Do you mind if I ask you to elaborate? Because I think Lea's aversion to agreeing with Ben based on that very clear knowledge is what's making me suspicious of her.

JC seemed genuinely clueless and asked for clarification on what the whole deal with FD grilling Death over his role was about. Lea on the other hand dismissed it entirely as not a solid argument, which makes me think she knows more than she's letting on. Perhaps the scum team has a similar role name convention, and thus she knew that FD and Lopen's reactions meant nothing.

Like... it's 100% game meta, but it's a strong point in Ben's favor since this kind of role renaming is so uncommon. It's just surprising to see Lea dismiss it.

Why does your mind jump to me being scum with a renamed role, and not just...town with a renamed role, exactly? People are genuinely confused all the time just because they misread things, or don't pick up on sarcasm or jokes, or simply can't parse certain player's writing styles. I don't agree with people reading into "oh JC has a regular named role so he's not informed scum" instead of just like, JC doesn't pick up on FD's oblique hinting.

I stand by it not being valid, because again, it's either an ironic second simpsons mafia hosting error, or a total waste of time. The game of mafia is not "nitpick people's PM structures". It's incredibly annoying, ineffective, and to me, not at all fun.

anyways back to work for me, be back in some matter of hours

but let it be known on the record that despite voting me and both of us being here for the past 20 mins or so ctes threw zero punches (or questions) at me

changmas posted...

fwiw if there is a serial killer i would actually expect that role would be renamed

I also wouldnt expect them to claim Peter Griffin.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/524c2809.jpg

That's convincing enough for me.

##Unvote

And now that brings us back to Ulti, who, as FD pointed out, did not mention a secondary name for his role despite it being fairly similar to Drunk.

I'm willing to give Ulti one pass, though... and that's maybe because he forgot. I know I definitely forgot that my role was renamed since it's a standard role. Wasn't until Death claimed that other name for his Vanilla that I remembered that little quirk.

Anyway I still think Lea's angle of "Ben's argument isn't significant" versus "Ben's argument makes no sense" is sus

##Vote: Lea

Isquen saying "Wallz claimed his actual mafia flavour, he's open wolfing!" makes sense. You can see why someone could believe that. I also think it's a very bad, insignificant argument. Does that help, Kirby?

Has Drunk ever actually been used before?
On board8 at least?
Its the first time I have heard of it at least.

Enchantress posted...

Why does your mind jump to me being scum with a renamed role, and not just...town with a renamed role, exactly? People are genuinely confused all the time just because they misread things, or don't pick up on sarcasm or jokes, or simply can't parse certain player's writing styles. I don't agree with people reading into "oh JC has a regular named role so he's not informed scum" instead of just like, JC doesn't pick up on FD's oblique hinting.

I stand by it not being valid, because again, it's either an ironic second simpsons mafia hosting error, or a total waste of time. The game of mafia is not "nitpick people's PM structures". It's incredibly annoying, ineffective, and to me, not at all fun.

My mind immediately jumped to scum because you showed indifference toward something that should've been new information to any ordinary townie.

Just because your role is renamed doesn't mean everyone else's is. You couldn't have known that. No one could have realized that Death's Vanilla role was renamed until FD pointed it out... because they have the same functional role. Think about why Ulti didn't grilled despite full claiming. Or Red. They both claimed power roles that obviously wouldn't be counterclaimed this early. Only Death got prodded for his true, full claim.

So let me ask you this... if FD isn't also a Town Vanilla, how did he deduce that Death was missing something in his claim?

I don't know about Drunk, but on mafia scum what Ulti is describing sounds more like a Visitor.

Example (simplest form)
Welcome to game! You are a Town Visitor.
You have the following active ability:
Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will visit them (which has no actual effect).

From https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Visitor

There is also 'loud visitor' which informs the target they were visited.

I'm not saying Ulti is definitely hiding something about his role, but I stand by the fact that he tends to be the least trustworthy when it comes to even understanding his own role.

Kirby321 posted...

My mind immediately jumped to scum because you showed indifference toward something that should've been new information to any ordinary townie.

Just because your role is renamed doesn't mean everyone else's is. You couldn't have known that. No one could have realized that Death's Vanilla role was renamed until FD pointed it out... because they have the same functional role. Think about why Ulti didn't grilled despite full claiming. Or Red. They both claimed power roles that obviously wouldn't be counterclaimed this early. Only Death got prodded for his true, full claim.

So let me ask you this... if FD isn't also a Town Vanilla, how did he deduce that Death was missing something in his claim?

Because I don't care

changmas posted...

anyways back to work for me, be back in some matter of hours

but let it be known on the record that despite voting me and both of us being here for the past 20 mins or so ctes threw zero punches (or questions) at me

Okay that's unfair because I'm here on my phone while working and I already "threw punches" earlier when I was still hoping for Isquen pressure.

Kirby321 posted...

Think about why Ulti didn't grilled despite full claiming. Or Red. They both claimed power roles that obviously wouldn't be counterclaimed this early. Only Death got prodded for his true, full claim.

Ulti claimed 'naive neighbor' which is itself garbage that may or may not have been a rename.

Red came AFTER death and I don't trust that he was being honest.

The only other things resembling a role claim before death were JC's "self confirming town" and Sbell's "might as well be a Miller".

I cant remember for sure if I was before death but I think I was, I also mentioned thinking there could be a flavor cop or a role cop because my role name didnt match my benign role.

Can you link that post? I don't have anything down for your role, just your Fat Tony flavor.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Ulti claimed 'naive neighbor' which is itself garbage that may or may not have been a rename.

Red came AFTER death and I don't trust that he was being honest.

The only other things resembling a role claim before death were JC's "self confirming town" and Sbell's "might as well be a Miller".

Okay fair point
In any case I don't believe any townie could react to what went on between you and Death with indifference. I especially can't see a scenario where you prod Death like that as scum.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Sbell's "might as well be a Miller".

in flavor

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Can you link that post? I don't have anything down for your role, just your Fat Tony flavor.

1.057 - I believe Sbell both for his direct manner of sharing this information and my own experience. If I saw my flavor and role without the alignment next to it I wouldve thought Im scum.

1.269 - My role is harmless but has a name that suggests otherwise. I do think my flavor and role both work as foils to a potential flavor or role cop.

1.286 - My role sounds bad but it isnt. Pretty simple and direct way to explain why you feel like drinking Miller Lite exclusively.

##Unvote:
##Vote: ctes

Will support lynches of Ulti Ctes and Lea today I think. Also red in a pinch

Against lynch of

Ben, Fd, Death, wallz, sbell, Isquen, Chang, Corrik, Kirby, Mzero

Lopen posted...

Against lynch of

Ben, Fd, Death, wallz, sbell, Isquen, Chang, Corrik, Kirby, Mzero

Lopen didn't include himself in this list

%%vote: lopen

ulti was easier to read back in the day.