Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Update Thread

(+) Yeah! (+)

More than 40% of the Palestine population is under the age of 14. If the stories of entire buildings being demolished with people in them is true you would be an idiot to think that no children and babies have been caught up as collateral damage from the recent retaliations.

Everyone talks about how Israel have the right to defend themselves and they do but the truth is that there are innocent people on both sides that have been caught up in the horrors of this conflict for over half a century and thats one of the biggest tragedies to come from this conflict.

Wherever you put blame on this conflict innocent people on both sides die. To suggest either side has some sort of moral imperative that absolves them to the fact innocent people are caught up on this is to dehumanise the poor people caught up in this hellhole whether you realise you are doing it or not.

Smashingpmkns posted...

The harsh reality of war is that children and women are killed all the fucking time. Right now the IDF are bombing buildings filled with women and children and no one gives a fuck. Painting one side as a bunch of baby murderers and rapists while ignoring that the other side has been doing the same thing consistently for decades now is fucking insane.

That woman in particular is alive though even though it was reported she was murdered.

If we're going by the logic that they're not as bad because they didn't decapitate babies is there also a degree of difference between an air strike and groups of people invading homes and shelters and murdering the innocent people inside taking shelter?

Like to me this didn't even look like a war. Or a battle. It looked like a slaughter of innocent people who had no one around to defend them. Is this something that happens 'all the fucking time' in a war?

So when people are seeing that news what are they falling for exactly? I'm someone who is overall sympathetic to both sides too but we can't deny how God damn horrific and bad when it comes to the sheer depravity of what happened here. Of course that's going to lead to more horror and depravity as well.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Is this something that happens 'all the fucking time' in a war?

I mean..... yeah.

Punished_Blinx posted...

If we're going by the logic that they're not as bad because they didn't decapitate babies is there also a degree of difference between an air strike and groups of people invading homes and shelters and murdering the innocent people inside taking shelter?

Like to me this didn't even look like a war. Or a battle. It looked like a slaughter of innocent people who had no one around to defend them. Is this something that happens 'all the fucking time' in a war?

So when people are seeing that news what are they falling for exactly? I'm someone who is overall sympathetic to both sides too but we can't deny how God damn horrific and bad when it comes to the sheer depravity of what happened here. Of course that's going to lead to more horror and depravity as well.

Neither should fucking be happening. It is entirely possible for both sides to be utterly evil.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I mean..... yeah.

And they're always depicted and treated as the most evil things humanity can do yeah?

Like no one is looking at what Nazis did and say "well they didn't decapitate the babies though right?"

Trumble posted...

Neither should fucking be happening. It is entirely possible for both sides to be utterly evil.

What's the solution supposed to be here? How does each country move forward?

Punished_Blinx posted...

And they're always depicted and treated as the most evil things humanity can do yeah?

Like no one is looking at what Nazis did and say "well they didn't decapitate the babies though right?"

I'm pretty sure they did but you're correct that it's not a contest. There's no defense of killing hundreds of innocent people, no matter the age no matter the method. Even if you're just retaliating against horrible crimes committed against you it doesn't justify killing even one innocent person let alone hundreds, regardless of their ages or bodily integrity.

Punished_Blinx posted...

If we're going by the logic that they're not as bad because they didn't decapitate babies is there also a degree of difference between an air strike and groups of people invading homes and shelters and murdering the innocent people inside taking shelter?

Like to me this didn't even look like a war. Or a battle. It looked like a slaughter of innocent people who had no one around to defend them. Is this something that happens 'all the fucking time' in a war?

So when people are seeing that news what are they falling for exactly? I'm someone who is overall sympathetic to both sides too but we can't deny how God damn horrific and bad when it comes to the sheer depravity of what happened here. Of course that's going to lead to more horror and depravity as well.

I don't think anyone is denying there are babies being murdered. It of course happens in situations like this and it happens on the other side as well. It makes no difference how they are killed. The point is to try and stop the violence and not push for war. However, the tactic of using dead babies and sensationalising it without verification of such claims is a propaganda tactic the US have used before in a push to gain support to go to war. Look into the The Nayirah testimony. The people making such claims without verification are all pushing for war and genocide at a time when we should be trying to stop the violence.

I wish I could unsee the video of Shani Louk.
So many conflicting reports of whether she's alive or dead.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/nine-staffers-working-with-un-palestinian-refugee-agency-killed-air-strikes-gaza-2023-10-11/

https://www.ifrc.org/press-release/five-ifrc-network-members-killed-civilians-and-healthcare-workers-must-be-respected

Tyranthraxus posted...

I'm pretty sure they did but you're correct that it's not a contest. There's no defense of killing hundreds of innocent people, no matter the age no matter the method. Even if you're just retaliating against horrible crimes committed against you it doesn't justify killing even one innocent person let alone hundreds, regardless of their ages or bodily integrity.

Ideally yes. But in reality if a country has had 1,000 civilians gunned down by militants they can't just do nothing. Or it'll happen again.

I get it. Of course Israel has done some horrific bombings too. But we also can't ignore there's an element of Muslim extremists who very much want a holy war and ethnic cleansing. We very much know the history of the people of Israel and ethnic cleansing.

It just sucks.

But I mean c'mon. If America lost 1,000 civilians to militants from a third world country they fucked up the response isn't gonna be "welp you got us. We deserved that. Did you decapitate out babies though? If you did that's too far."

Punished_Blinx posted...

But I mean c'mon. If America lost 1,000 civilians to militants from a third world country they fucked up the response isn't gonna be "welp you got us. We deserved that. Did you decapitate out babies though? If you did that's too far."

Apples and oranges.

Foppe posted...

Apples and oranges.

Of course. You live in one country and not the other.

We certainly can't pretend that the United States hasn't killed a shit ton of civilians in third world countries. Didn't even need to share a border for them to do so.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Of course. You live in one country and not the other.

...you really think that the long conflict that caused this Hamas attack is equal to "some militants from a third world country suddenly decides to kill 1000 Americans"?
If those third world militants said that they did it because Americans killed 40 infants, would you just accept that as well or demanding proof of it?

The stupidity and brutality of Hamas pretty much forced Israel's hand. Rest of the world is going to look away as Palestine gets utterly destroyed now. Of course, Hezbollah and Lebanon are getting in on the action too so they are also valid targets. Middle East is about to experience hellfire not seen since the Iraq War.

Foppe posted...

you really think that the long conflict that caused this Hamas attack is equal to "some militants from a third world country suddenly decides to kill 1000 Americans"?

Have we not seen terrorist attacks made against Americans for similar reasons?

Foppe posted...

If those third world militants said that they did it because Americans killed 40 infants, would you just accept that as well or demanding proof of it?

Did they die by airstrikes? Probably wouldn't be too hard to believe no.

What's the direct quote from Hamas about this anyway? Did they said they did this as revenge for children?

Explain to me why someone from the west should care about supporting either of these zealot shitholes. This isnt even enlightened centrism, instead of standing between its more like two rabid dogs are fighting in the distance and we should stay away from them. I also dont get why the left on reddit especially is so pro-Palestine when the majority of people there put a dagger in your back just as much as the Orthodox Jews in Israel. Im sure one of the parties is more guilty but if both of them would cut my head off because their funny book says me liking certain genitals is evil then fuck them.

Zwijn posted...

Explain to me why someone from the west should care about supporting either of these zealot shitholes. This isnt even enlightened centrism, instead of standing between its more like two rabid dogs are fighting in the distance and we should stay away from them. I also dont get why the left on reddit especially is so pro-Palestine when the majority of people there put a dagger in your back just as much as the Orthodox Jews in Israel. Im sure one of the parties is more guilty but if both of them would cut my head off because their funny book says me liking certain genitals is evil then fuck them.

As always I just feel bad for the civilians. Hamas and the IDF are both trash and were not obligated to support either.

Dark_Arbron posted...

As always I just feel bad for the civilians. Hamas and the IDF are both trash and were not obligated to support either.

This guy gets it.

legendary_zell posted...

This is why history is so important. People should know by now that one of THE most common wartime tropes is "the other side are true monsters that don't reserve rights because they're bayonetting/beheading/taking babies out of their mother's womb." Not to say that such things never happen or even that Hamas didn't do those things, but such claims should always be evaluated in a historical context.

The claim is made not to reference reality, but to essentially state "my adversary is so evil you shouldn't care what I do to them" without saying it, and that's never true and always leads to atrocities. It's meant to turn off your brain and your empathy, and that's exactly what it does.

Well said

Punished_Blinx posted...

We certainly can't pretend that the United States hasn't killed a shit ton of civilians in third world countries. Didn't even need to share a border for them to do so.

Yes and we're still bad guys when we do it. Even if we're killing terrorists during the process

All war is evil. Sometimes you can have a war for good reasons but it's still evil.

Zwijn posted...

Explain to me why someone from the west should care about supporting either of these zealot shitholes.

its called having a heart for the innocent people caught up in this turf war.
the people that didnt choose to be born or live in a war zone

ZaruenKosai posted...

its called having a heart for the innocent people caught up in this turf war.
the people that didnt choose to be born or live in a war zone

And why single out this conflict out of the dozens if not more that are going on right now?

ZaruenKosai posted...

its called having a heart for the innocent people caught up in this turf war.
the people that didnt choose to be born or live in a war zone

Just ignore the troll and move on, don't engage with it.

chaos_knight posted...

Rest of the world is going to look away as Palestine gets utterly destroyed now.

The real tragedy of the Palestinians is that they expected the other Arab countries to save them. For a while, those countries kind of tried (multiple gang-up wars against Israel), but then decided it would be better to keep the Palestinians in permanent refugee status for political gain (and even got the definition of "refugee" changed to support it). The end of Pan-Arabism also contributed. But eventually those countries [governments] gradually realized that it's even better to make peace (and peace is good, right?) and trade with Israel. But it leaves out the Palestinians. Not including substantial numbers of Israeli Arabs and Jordanian Palestinians, of course, they are doing okay.

itcheyness posted...

Just ignore the troll and move on, don't engage with it.

Nice retort, you and me both know that of the dozens of conflicts now this only gets zoomed in on because of western politics gain for either side. Being called a troll because I think this is just as valuable as the many African conflicts that nobody gives a shit about is hilarious. Most of you couldnt even point to any of these places on a map.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/8/8/AAZtqHAAE7O0.jpg

Zwijn posted...

Im sure one of the parties is more guilty but if both of them would cut my head off because their funny book says me liking certain genitals is evil then f*** them.

Only one of them would do that....

Zwijn posted...

Explain to me why someone from the west should care about supporting either of these zealot shitholes. This isnt even enlightened centrism, instead of standing between its more like two rabid dogs are fighting in the distance and we should stay away from them. I also dont get why the left on reddit especially is so pro-Palestine when the majority of people there put a dagger in your back just as much as the Orthodox Jews in Israel. Im sure one of the parties is more guilty but if both of them would cut my head off because their funny book says me liking certain genitals is evil then fuck them.

The grassroots left so vehemently supports palestine to the point of justifying islamofascism and acts of genocide against israelis because a.) palestinian recognition/independence is an early-20th century style anti-colonial struggle that still exists to this day and b.) reactionary contrarianism to distinguish themselves from liberals who tend to support israel.

In reality neither the israeli or palestinian state causes are worth supporting, but palestinian and israeli civilians each deserve freedom and security.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Only one of them would do that....

True, the other orthodox side is totally fine with queers and just looks down on you and treats you like a lesser human being with all the implications that follow from that including assault.

Will this be what ends up destroying Palestine forever?

Zwijn posted...

Being called a troll because I think this is just as valuable as the many African conflicts that nobody gives a shit about is hilarious.

I'm calling you a troll because of this:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/6/AAN_ZGAAE7PG.jpg
A 3 month old account with over 400 posts that is being needlessly aggressive and combative.

itcheyness posted...

I'm calling you a troll because of this:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/6/AAN_ZGAAE7PG.jpg
A 3 month old account with over 400 posts that is being needlessly aggressive and combative.

Its a 3 month old account because I deleted my account from 2003 half a year ago but we all know its impossible to ever leave this shithole, especially for terminally online losers like me.

Full-on siege now.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/12/israel-refuses-to-restore-power-to-gaza-until-hostages-are-released/

chaos_knight posted...

The stupidity and brutality of Hamas pretty much forced Israel's hand. Rest of the world is going to look away as Palestine gets utterly destroyed now. Of course, Hezbollah and Lebanon are getting in on the action too so they are also valid targets. Middle East is about to experience hellfire not seen since the Iraq War.

Israel will be propped up because Hamas killed and took many other nationals. US, UK, France, Canada, Germany, ect can't tell their citizens to not be angry and then put the blame on Israel.

Also new, the baby photos were revealed

Netanyahu's office releases photos of "babies murdered and burned" by Hamas
From CNNs Richard Allen Greene in Jerusalem
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahus office Thursday released horrifying photos of babies murdered and burned by the Hamas monsters.
Hamas is inhuman. Hamas is ISIS, a social media post from Netanyahus office said.
The three photos showed two babies whose bodies had been burned beyond recognition and a third blood-stained infants body.
Netanyahus post said the pictures were some of the photos that Netanyahu showed US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on his visit to Jerusalem on Thursday.

Zwijn posted...

And why single out this conflict out of the dozens if not more that are going on right now?

Cause there is a real chance the place is gonna meet a genocide and around 40% of the people in this place are kids.

Now Palestine supporters are posting dead Palestine babies from Israel bombings on Twitter so there's a pissing contest now on dead babies.
I think I'm gonna throw up.

Ferarri619 posted...

Now Palestine supporters are posting dead Palestine babies from Israel bombings on Twitter so there's a pissing contest now on dead babies.
I think I'm gonna throw up.

Glad I don't have to see it but with 40% of their population being under 18, it was inevitable that the Palestinian baby death toll would be catastrophic...

Ferarri619 posted...

Now Palestine supporters are posting dead Palestine babies from Israel bombings on Twitter so there's a pissing contest now on dead babies.
I think I'm gonna throw up.

It was inevitable, Israel has been hammering home there being dead babies while leveling parts of cities. The idea that they haven't been murdering babies is ridiculous, just Israel has a bigger megaphone.

I'm hearing that Palestinian hospitals are beginning to go dark. This is when the deaths skyrocket

VFalcone posted...

I'm hearing that Palestinian hospitals are beginning to go dark. This is when the deaths skyrocket

Israel cut off the power. See #434.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Israel cut off the power. See #434.

Has Hamas released any kind of statement as to whether they're planning on releasing the hostages?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Israel cut off the power. See #434.

Yeah I'm aware. It's most likely their emergency generators running out now

s0nicfan posted...

Has Hamas released any kind of statement as to whether they're planning on releasing the hostages?

The only response I would expect from them is a beheading video. If their devices have enough power to record and distribute one

Enclave posted...

It was inevitable, Israel has been hammering home there being dead babies while leveling parts of cities. The idea that they haven't been murdering babies is ridiculous, just Israel has a bigger megaphone.

It's war. Civilians die, unfortunately.
Collateral damage is bad, but still no where near on the same level as actively hunting down babies to capture and murder. I don't know why that's a controversial take on here.
Hamas decided to escalate this conflict far beyond whatever prior "norms" there were (which yes, included civilians on both sides dying, but nowhere near this rate), because they'd gladly sacrifice their own people if it allows them to kill more Jews.

s0nicfan posted...

Has Hamas released any kind of statement as to whether they're planning on releasing the hostages?

No. The only statement they made is that they will execute them if Israel keeps this up.

Israel holds all the cards here.
"Absolute siege until you return the hostages, absolute obliteration if you execute them, moderate siege and obliteration either way."

Questionmarktarius posted...

Israel holds all the cards here.
"Absolute siege until you return the hostages, absolute obliteration if you execute them, moderate siege and obliteration either way."

Doesn't really work if they already know the people there are willing to die for their cause. They're trying to find some way to rescue the hostages. It probably won't work but if Israel was ok with an outcome of the hostages being executed they'd have already moved on to complete obliteration.

If there's a chance Israel can get its people back before steamrolling Gaza, may as well give it a try.