Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Update Thread

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Oh god 110%. Anything resembling Palestinian autonomy in Gaza died this past weekend. Absolutely getting annexed.

I don't know if you'd call it annexed or occupied, but whatever you call it, this is the answer. Israel will take control of Gaza, execute any suspected Hamas member, and no hostage or bystander will get in their way. And of course, the people they leave behind will start the cycle all over again.

So you all think theyre going to what march 2.3 million Palestinians into the ocean?

Those who do not resist will be able to live out their lives in military occupied territory. They will have no rights to self governance, but if they do as theyre told, theyll live. Or they can seek to leave.

Their genocidal campaign against the Palestinian is going to prop up more extremists, and it's going to bite israel in the ass even harder in the long run.

This overreaction by Israel is exactly what Hamas want

Oh god 110%. Anything resembling Palestinian autonomy in Gaza died this past weekend. Absolutely getting annexed.

Wow... that is incredibly dumb. No one should have to live in that kind of state.

Their genocidal campaign against the Palestinian is going to prop up more extremists, and it's going to bite israel in the ass even harder in the long run.

This overreaction by Israel is exactly what Hamas want

I don't think Israel is going to entirely take away the West Bank's autonomy at this time, so there will still be an autonomous Palestinian state, it's just that West Bank will be the only one. Odds are, Gaza will eventually be filtered for 'terrorists' and settled, with the current residents displaced, but perhaps they will be displaced into better conditions than they have today.

Then say that anyone choosing to stay will be considered a combatant. After that, they'll have a free for all, killing anyone who doesn't surrender.

And once everyone is dead or in a POW camp, annex the empty territory.

• IDF death toll climbs to 156 as overall Israeli death toll goes well beyond 1,000. Edit: 2,900 injured
• IDF amassing a large armored vehicle force in the north https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711782450207093137
• There are reports confirming that at least 40 Israeli children aged 2 and below have been beheaded by Hamas

What a useful post

* IDF death toll climbs to 156 as overall Israeli death toll goes well beyond 1,000. Edit: 2,900 injured
* IDF amassing a large armored vehicle force in the north https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711782450207093137
* There are reports confirming that at least 40 Israeli children aged 2 and below have been beheaded by Hamas

I'm very worried by people who seem angry at the idea that there should be any limits on the response by Israel here. What would NOT be justified in your minds? So far, I've seen support for killing orders of magnitude more civilians, more displacement, more imprisonment, more annexation, cutting off food and energy, and more apartheid in general.

Yes, terrorist attacks warrant a response, what Hamas did is evil, but seems like this course of action leads to either 1. A worse version of the unstable status quo before this war or 2. Total suppression and dispossession of Palestinians.

It is total suppression of the region. The only other options are to 1) tolerate what they did and let it happen again, or 2) to kill them all down to the last man and salt the earth so that nobody can take up their cause. And I'll tell you, within Israel, you'll have far, far more people calling for #2 than #1.

Ah we now suggesting the recent retaliations are some how a disguised liberation of Palestine from Hamas?

If so why doesnt Israel just come out and say it.

Ah we now suggesting the recent retaliations are some how a disguised liberation of Palestine from Hamas?

What nuance is there to say to people beheading babies? He's right. If this happened in the US or ANYWHERE there's no way they would not respond in massive amounts. There is no country in the world that would take this and just do nothing.

What nuance is there to say to people beheading babies? He's right. If this happened in the US or ANYWHERE there's no way they would not respond in massive amounts. There is no country in the world that would take this and just do nothing.

Asking people to condemn Hamas Everytime Israel is criticized is some Russian bot tier level trolling. As if we don't all already know Hamas is evil. The problem is accepting that Israels right wing government is also evil

Because how are you supposed to push for peace with people that behead babies? Yes that's not all of Palestine, it's Hamas. But Hamas is in charge of Palestine, so how do they get peace with Palestine without peace with Hamas? And peace with Hamas is impossible. Beheading babies is not a reaction to oppression. Neither is murdering, desecrating bodies, parading them through the streets. I know it sounds black and white but I don't get how you get any more black and white than this. They are true evil. Oppression doesn't turn people into baby be-headers. There is no reasoning with people who are capable of that.

I don't see how any peace is possible while Hamas has power in Palestine.

If this happened in America I can't imagine what would happen.

I don't see how any peace is possible while Hamas has power in Palestine.

I don't see it either. Hamas needs to go. But Hamas is a reaction to how Israel treats Palestinians. If (hopefully) Hamas goes, will Israel improve the material, social and political conditions of the Palestinian people so that something like Hamas will never emerge again?

Or will they keep the status quo and then act like nothing can ever be done to make peace when another group like Hamas emerges?

Because how are you supposed to push for peace with people that behead babies?

Yes that's not all of Palestine, it's Hamas. But Hamas is in charge of Palestine, so how do they get peace with Palestine without peace with Hamas?

If this happened in America I can't imagine what would happen.

If this happened in America I can't imagine what would happen.

And the situation with Palestine is legitimately very complicated, because Hamas is capable of things like this so Israel not wanting them crossing their border does have sense to it. but at the same time its true this situation is not sustainable and the palestinian lives need to be improved somehow.

I don't see it either. Hamas needs to go. But Hamas is a reaction to how Israel treats Palestinians. If (hopefully) Hamas goes, will Israel improve the material, social and political conditions of the Palestinian people so that something like Hamas will never emerge again?

Or will they keep the status quo and then act like nothing can ever be done to make peace when another group like Hamas emerges?

But Hamas is in charge of Palestine

How about the Palestinians in Gaza start building their own civilian infrastructure

Yes, that's true, but there are times where it is really strange to be criticizing Israel, and in the wake of what happened here its one of those times. Like it would be very odd if Biden gave a nuanced speech in light of what atrocities we've seen. In a normal discussion it makes sense to call israel evil. To call israel 'evil' in a discussion that includes the things Hamas did this weekend it comes off as anti-semitic or something. Because how can you say what Israel does and what Hamas does is evil in the same breath? If Israel is evil then what is Hamas? It's like the people who call Trump equivalent to Hitler.

Considering the Jewish people are ones who have been targets of ACTUAL genocides where people wanted to actually wipe them out of existence, its almost offensive to say that they are genocidal. They have shown more restraint than most countries in the world would have. They have done many evil things compared to other countries, but put any other country in their same situation and I really wonder how many would not have done worse? America surely would have.

If people are going to keep saying that Hamas was formed by Israel's actions, then you need to take it a step further and also explain how Israel's actions were formed from aggression against them.

After the 1948, when a league of Arab nations declared war on Israel the day they were formed, Egypt was placed in control of Gaza. Israel withdrew all their forces and left Egypt to manage the region. Israel then captured Gaza in 1967 during the 6-day war when, again, a league of Arab nations joined together to try and wipe them out. They controlled Gaza directly until the Oslo accords in 1993 when administrative control was handed over to the Palestinian government. They pulled all their troops out in 1994 and then Yassir Arafat was responsible for the region. Arafat, by the way, was the one who rejected the two State solution in the 70s and stated "Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it." Even during the Oslo accord, when some kind of formal piece was established along with joint recognition, the Palestinian government stated that it was only a temporary measure until they could find the means to fully eradicate israel. Arafat was also the one to reject the camp David agreement in 2000 and refused to continue negotiations. The main sticking point was he insisted on a full Palestinian right to return, which would have allowed any Palestinian from anywhere, including the descendants of people who had previously left, instant Israeli citizenship and also the right to any land that they claim was their descendants. It would have turned the Jewish population in Israel into a minority which would have had serious consequences on Israeli government.

Hamas won a surprise election in 2006, overthrew the government, and then established themselves as the entity with absolute control over the region.

So when we're talking about Israeli actions in gaza, we really shouldn't pretend like they just woke up one day and decided to be oppressive. We're talking about decades of attempts to wipe them off the face of the Earth, dating all the way back to literally the day they were founded, and a region that has only partially been under Israeli control and often ruled by people who openly declared their intent to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. These are the people that Israel is being told they have to be nicer to.