Poll of the Day > news flash: a 30 minute walk is not actually that far

(+) Yeah! (+)

at least, it shouldn't be.

I can understand living somewhere that has zero pedestrian friendliness and feeling like a 30 min walk is unfeasible

But 30 minutes is NOT a long walk. Certain people just can't wrap their minds around doing more than walking to and from their car to the fridge back to their sofa. It's a shame.

Certain folks out here get in their car to go get their mail literally 60 yards from their front porch. It's super sad.

For most people, it's about 1.5 miles.

It can also feel like it's a poor time investment for a lot of people in a very time-sensitive world, where there are always other things they can be doing in that hour. Or it can seem untenable if you're planning to transport things (for the shopping example, if you're going to be buying things, you may not want to carry bags any appreciable distance). And even if someone isn't planning on getting anything, they may like having the flexibility and sense of security that comes from having a car nearby.

Then there's differences in physicality. For instance, my nephew in his 20s would have a lot easier time at this point walking a mile than I would (he's actually trying to train to run a 12-minute 1.5 mile at the moment), and both of us would have a much easier time walking it than my mother would, considering she can barely make it from one room to another without suffering major knee pain.

It is not far, but it is time consuming. Like when I am on vacation, I have no problem walking 10-15 miles a day to do everything I want to do. But spending 30 minutes walking somewhere when I could drive there in 5? That is 25 minutes I could be spending doing chores, working, playing games, or anything else besides walking.

Give me a way to walk 60-75 mph and I will walk everywhere.

Dikitain posted...

Give me a way to walk 60-75 mph and I will walk everywhere.

Do these count?

https://youtu.be/xd8dKY6Ozrg?t=1404
https://youtu.be/-dhN9zNzuCM?t=402

Depends on the length of your stride

You're right. The same can be said for jogging for 30 minutes, but I'm not going to blame people for not getting that kind of cardio in. People's lives are busy.

I used to do 30 minute walks two and from work and school daily for around 20 years.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

For most people, it's about 1.5 miles.

hockey7318 posted...

People's lives are busy.

Thanks to the new dumbass bus route/schedule, I'm now walking 40 minutes to work every morning and 30 minutes home every evening (that's in addition to riding the bus). I don't mind the walking itself, but it's a killer in this heat. But I have some money saved and might be looking for a car soon.

would take me about 2 hours to walk to the nearest grocery store, one way

i aint doing that

agesboy posted...

would take me about 2 hours to walk to the nearest grocery store, one way

i aint doing that

I can walk to a Walmart but it would be a huge pain in the ass to lug a pail of cat litter home.

For healthy people who live in temperate climates it's not. Because of the extreme heat these last few years, I've resorted to a lot of my walks and exercises at night.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

For most people, it's about 1.5 miles.

Some of us are very short and a 30m walk is rather less than that.

...

But ya, 30m walks are pretty good. That's about my casual range (walking to get groceries and such)

Lokarin posted...

Some of us are very short and a 30m walk is rather less than that.

Yeah, but average human walking speed is 3-4 mph. Which is why I said "for most people".

My natural walking speed is about 3.3 mph. In 30 minutes, I can walk about 1-2/3 miles. Most people my age average about 2.75 mph, and people below 30 years old average about 3.0.

If I push myself I can easily hit 4 mph on varied terrain, so that's 2 miles in half an hour, and I can easily exceed that on flat, level ground. Most people cannot walk much faster than 5.5 mph; beyond that most people will break into a jog, which is a different stride.

Walking involves keeping one foot on the ground at all times, jogging and running involve both feet being in the air at least momentarily.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/7/AAQwHjAAEx-J.jpg

Dont tell me when or where to walk. Ill walk wherever and whenever I want to. Stop judging people

I'll walk to a restaurant near me that's 1km away but I'll drive that far in the same direction for the gym. I only have 1 hour for my workout!

newsflash buddy

how long does it take to walk across Aruba? Aruba is hella tiny, you can fit like 4 of them in Prince Edward Island

For people feeling the time constraints, I recommend giving audiobooks a try. Getting to spend your walking time learning something interesting or enjoying a good story makes it feel like a very productive use of your limited leisure time.

josh posted...

I'll walk to a restaurant near me that's 1km away but I'll drive that far in the same direction for the gym. I only have 1 hour for my workout!

oh yeah and this brings up another thing

why is america so bike unfriendly
i HATE it

i don't own a bike because i dont know how people deal with it

I've walked 30 minutes to some places.

Cruciferous posted...

oh yeah and this brings up another thing

why is america so bike unfriendly
i HATE it

i don't own a bike because i dont know how people deal with it

bike riders either act like they own the roads and everyone needs to bow down to them, or they act ultra cautious and rarely actually go anywhere

there is no inbetween

captpackrat posted...

My natural walking speed is about 3.3 mph. In 30 minutes, I can walk about 1-2/3 miles. Most people my age average about 2.75 mph, and people below 30 years old average about 3.0.

If I push myself I can easily hit 4 mph on varied terrain, so that's 2 miles in half an hour, and I can easily exceed that on flat, level ground. Most people cannot walk much faster than 5.5 mph; beyond that most people will break into a jog, which is a different stride.

Walking involves keeping one foot on the ground at all times, jogging and running involve both feet being in the air at least momentarily.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/7/AAQwHjAAEx-J.jpg

Damn, is that how you walk, i've been doing it wrong this whole time.

nah son, that's RACEWALKING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUxbnadlIz4

and why are they teaching us the difference between walking and jogging?

hockey7318 posted...

and why are they teaching us the difference between walking and jogging?

Because speed walking in an Olympic event. And you get disqualified if you don't keep one foot on the ground at all time (i.e., run).

I understand that it's an olympic event, but I don't understand why you're telling us how to properly do it. Did someone seem confused about what walking is?

Cruciferous posted...

why is america so bike unfriendly

i regularly ride my bicycle to work in sydney and people literally try to kill me :)

josh posted...

i regularly ride my bicycle to work in sydney and people literally try to kill me :)

yeah probably because they're forced to either share lane with pedestrians, have shitty bike lanes too small/being parallel parked on, or just ride on the road because there's no dedicated bike lane.

I also hate cyclists who act selfishly on the road but how's that different than a poor driver? In particular I hate when cyclists can't decide if they're a vehicle or a pedestrian. You can't just use the road and then the crosswalk like that!!!

Sounds like you've got some issues my man.

Cyclists have every right to the road that a car does. Inconvenient to be behind, but remember that is a living being on the bike and not someone out just trying to piss you off. Pass them when you can and when you can't just take a big deep breath and wait.

yeah but I might get sweaty

funkyfritter posted...

For people feeling the time constraints, I recommend giving audiobooks a try. Getting to spend your walking time learning something interesting or enjoying a good story makes it feel like a very productive use of your limited leisure time.

Podcasts would work too.

Cruciferous posted...

yeah probably because they're forced to either share lane with pedestrians, have shitty bike lanes too small/being parallel parked on, or just ride on the road because there's no dedicated bike lane.

I also hate cyclists who act selfishly on the road but how's that different than a poor driver? In particular I hate when cyclists can't decide if they're a vehicle or a pedestrian. You can't just use the road and then the crosswalk like that!!!

Says who?

It's gonna feel pretty damn long when it's 105 outside

Cruciferous posted...

Certain folks out here get in their car to go get their mail literally 60 yards from their front porch. It's super sad.

To be fair, a lot of subdivisions are so designed around cars that even if the mail is only 60 yards away as the crow flies, there are fences, yards, and other obstacles that mean walking there is significantly more circuitous than that, often walking on roads with no sidewalks because everything has been designed around the assumption that everyone will drive everywhere at all times. Sure, some people are just lazy and will make a drive they could easily walk in the same amount of time (on that scale, you spend about so much time getting into the car, pulling out, parking, and getting out that it nullifies most or all of the time savings walking would provide), but thanks to living in an environment where driving is the default because everything has been designed to be hostile to any other mode of transportation, people tend to only ever think about driving places.

Heck, even just psychologically, the norm of only ever travelling from your house to your car to your destination without ever being outside for a meaningful length of time makes people uncomfortable with the idea of just walking around their neighbourhoods. Car-centric infrastructure fundamentally fosters a sense of isolation because you so rarely see people out and about, which in turn fosters a sense of distrust and misanthropy.

Dikitain posted...

But spending 30 minutes walking somewhere when I could drive there in 5? That is 25 minutes I could be spending doing chores, working, playing games, or anything else besides walking.

Give me a way to walk 60-75 mph and I will walk everywhere.

If you're in an environment where you can go 60-75 mph at any point during a 5-minute drive, that environment is a major part of the problem. Car-centric developments connected to other car-centric developments by highways are fundamentally at odds with getting around any other way, thanks to how much space has to be taken up to move large volumes of cars (significantly more than just about any other option, especially for single-occupancy vehicles), the amount of parking space that's needed when nobody can get anywhere without driving (commercial lots with parking minimums are very often comprised of more driveway/parking than actual store), and the danger inherent in trying to mix high-speed car traffic with any other mode. Build around something other than cars, and that 5-minute drive becomes a 10-15-minute walk instead, usually a much more pleasant one because you're walking past actual destinations and not parking lots and drive-thrus.

Cruciferous posted...

why is america so bike unfriendly
i HATE it

Most of it is just a natural consequence of being car-centric. Going back as early as the 1910's-20's, car companies ran a propaganda campaign to shift then narrative from "streets are public places that belong to everyone" to "streets belong to cars and everyone else needs to work around that" (this is where the term and concept of "jaywalking" came from). That narrative has stuck, and it's extremely common for drivers - having spent their entire lives being told that streets are for them and them alone - to resent having their driving be inconvenienced by anyone else using the road. It's made even worse by the ubiquitous fantasy that drivers are the only ones paying for roads and are therefore entitled to every square inch of asphalt in the city.

Of course, the reality is that driving-specific fees and taxes only cover about 10% of road costs in most American cities/suburbs, with the remaining large majority coming from other revenue streams that everyone pays regardless of whether or not they drive. Car-only infrastructure is also by far the least efficient way to move people around if you look at it on a scale beyond "me drive to work with no other cars around," but the auto industry's propaganda has taken very deep root in American society, and those are difficult lies to untangle.

Shrek posted...

bike riders either act like they own the roads and everyone needs to bow down to them, or they act ultra cautious and rarely actually go anywhere

there is no inbetween

There's plenty of in-between, you just don't notice it because we only consider extreme experiences worth remembering. It also doesn't help that "bikes act like they own the roads" often actually just means "bikes are using the road like they're a car and I don't like going a bit slower for a few minutes," which in many circumstances is the only way bikes can actually be safe. Trying to make passing room in a situation where safe passing won't be possible either way just invites unsafe passing. In those cases, they should occupy the full lane to remove the option.

This perception also isn't helped by the fact that not feeling comfortable around cars is by far the biggest reason for people not cycling, which is a pretty understandable reason because gambling your life on the hope that the guy behind you isn't having a bad day isn't altogether appealing. Drivers do act like they own the road on a very regular basis (and will tell you as much if you suggest allocating any fraction of it to something that isn't a car, despite the aforementioned reality that their commute is heavily subsidized by everyone else), so the people that decide to cycle despite not having appropriate infrastructure are the ones bold enough to push back against that attitude. When you're used to feeling like all of this black stuff exists just for you and only you because you're a special little boy, it's to be expected that being told you're not special and you have to share it with other people is going to rub you the wrong way. But you're not particularly special and you do have to share it with other people, so you might want to get used to that.

hockey7318 posted...

Pass them when you can and when you can't just take a big deep breath and wait.

The number of people that blame cyclists for "forcing" them to pass unsafely is really kind of ridiculous. Unless they're like shooting at you or something, nobody ever "forces" you to pass them. If you pass them unsafely, that's a choice you and only you made. Either wait for an opportunity to pass safely or just accept that you don't need to get to the next red light 12 seconds sooner and don't pass.

adjl posted...

If you're in an environment where you can go 60-75 mph at any point during a 5-minute drive, that environment is a major part of the problem. Car-centric developments connected to other car-centric developments by highways are fundamentally at odds with getting around any other way, thanks to how much space has to be taken up to move large volumes of cars (significantly more than just about any other option, especially for single-occupancy vehicles), the amount of parking space that's needed when nobody can get anywhere without driving (commercial lots with parking minimums are very often comprised of more driveway/parking than actual store), and the danger inherent in trying to mix high-speed car traffic with any other mode. Build around something other than cars, and that 5-minute drive becomes a 10-15-minute walk instead, usually a much more pleasant one because you're walking past actual destinations and not parking lots and drive-thrus.

I'm not trying to solve all urban planning issues, I am just saying why I don't walk to the grocery store every Sunday. Slow your role.

Revelation34 posted...

Says who?

OK fine but at least follow the traffic laws if you're going to do that.

I liked it better in Chicago where the police don't let you ride on sidewalks.

I try to talk walk about 50 minutes almost everyday.

Cruciferous posted...

OK fine but at least follow the traffic laws if you're going to do that.

Switching between roads and crosswalks is actually fully legal in most places, provided the cyclist dismounts in the crosswalk (unless said crosswalk is designated to allow bikes, as some are, especially if they connect legs of a multi-use path). In many cases, it's actually the preferred way for bikes to make a left turn, in that they stick to the right side of the road they're on, stop at the far right corner, then cross the road using the crosswalk and pull out into the crossroad they're aiming for. In heavier traffic, a pedestrian left turn is generally much safer than making multiple lane changes.

So long as the cyclist isn't just abruptly making left turns into crosswalks and cutting off traffic or endangering pedestrians (which are obviously bad ideas), the only real objection is that you don't think it's "fair" to be able to switch modes like that, and that really doesn't matter. Provided it's done safely and predictably, there's nothing actually wrong with it.

Dikitain posted...

I'm not trying to solve all urban planning issues, I am just saying why I don't walk to the grocery store every Sunday. Slow your role.

That's fair, but it's also still important to keep thinking about it in terms of "driving is better because my environment has been designed to make driving better at the expense of everything else," instead of accepting it as normal to have the nearest grocery store be unfeasible to walk to. You do have the power to vote to improve urban planning issues, but you have to recognize them and know what to look for in solutions to do so.

Cruciferous posted...

oh yeah and this brings up another thing

why is america so bike unfriendly
i HATE it

i don't own a bike because i dont know how people deal with it

Fuck cyclists they're always in the way. They should stay on the sidewalks and out of traffic. If you can't even make it up to the speed limit then you shouldn't be in the road, same goes for farm equipment that likes to go 15 in a 55.

Muscles posted...

They should stay on the sidewalks and out of traffic

This only works in a city so dysfunctional that the sidewalks have nobody walking on them, which granted is totally the case in much of America

Muscles posted...

f*** cyclists they're always in the way.

Calm down. It's not going to kill you to drive slower for a couple minutes.

Muscles posted...

same goes for farm equipment that likes to go 15 in a 55.

Are you willing to pay the additional cost to install and maintain an extra road just for farm equipment to use? Because they have to get around somehow, and your choices are either to calm down because it's not going to kill you to drive slower for a couple minutes, or build a whole extra road to accommodate your impatience.

Muscles posted...

They should stay on the sidewalks and out of traffic.

Let's do a comparison, shall we?

Sidewalks
+Doesn't slow car traffic down
-Pedestrians can appear unexpectedly
-Pedestrians can stop/turn unexpectedly
-No defined direction of travel
-No rules defining right of way
-No protocols for indicating intent before turning/stopping
-No protocol for passing
-No physical protection for either party in the event of a bike-pedestrian collision
-No training requirements for anyone
-Illegal in most jurisdictions

Roads
+Controlled access
+Significantly more warning before stops/turns
+Defined direction of travel
+Rules defining right of way
+Protocols for indicating intent before turning/stopping
+Protocol for passing
+One party is almost completely physically protected in bike-car collisions
+Training requirements for the road users with the most potential to cause harm
+Legal in most jurisdictions
-Cars might have to add a couple minutes to their trips

This really is an absolute no-brainer. Obviously, the ideal is to have actual bike infrastructure that segregates them from cars and minimizes points of conflict as much as possible (which can include multi-use paths, but those avoid the problems of sidewalks by being wider and having passing protocols), but when that's not an option (usually because whiny drivers aren't willing to give up a dozen street parking spots for a lane that can move more people/hour than the entire road can), having bikes on the road is clearly the better option. Get over yourself.

Bring back horse and wagon TBH

Ive done waking around before when I was younger, but any walking I do this day is just around the neighborhood at night. Like others said, its time consuming Why waste that time when I can do something better with that time

keyblader1985 posted...

I don't mind the walking itself, but it's a killer in this heat.

Theres this, too Which is why I dont walking at night. Plus, if I walk in the heat, I get really sweaty. And deodorant can only do so much

Revelation34 posted...

I can walk to a Walmart but it would be a huge pain in the ass to lug a pail of cat litter home.

Back in tech school, I use to walk to and from my dorm and the store And since I couldnt get my car, I had to walk home with groceries. Even with my huge ass backpack, I had to walk home with armloads of groceries. Luckily, both times when I had way too many groceries, I got help. The first time, I ran into 2 guys I knew who helped my back. And the other time, a guy who knew I was a green rope helped me back

funkyfritter posted...

For people feeling the time constraints, I recommend giving audiobooks a try. Getting to spend your walking time learning something interesting or enjoying a good story makes it feel like a very productive use of your limited leisure time.

Revelation34 posted...

Podcasts would work too.

While I do like and use both of these, I also use them while driving For me, its that Id like to use my extra time for other things instead of walking. And depending on what I need to do, I can still listen to stuff while do other things. Like chores Although, I also like using that extra time to sleep instead sometimes In that case, I cant listen to anything But that extra sleep can help

adjl posted...

That's fair, but it's also still important to keep thinking about it in terms of "driving is better because my environment has been designed to make driving better at the expense of everything else," instead of accepting it as normal to have the nearest grocery store be unfeasible to walk to. You do have the power to vote to improve urban planning issues, but you have to recognize them and know what to look for in solutions to do so.

Sometimes, its not that its unfeasible to walk to But I tend to buy quite a bit at the grocery store Id rather not walk or bike with that much weight

LinkPizza posted...

Sometimes, its not that its unfeasible to walk to But I tend to buy quite a bit at the grocery store Id rather not walk or bike with that much weight

In places that are designed to be walkable and/or have good transit, you tend to see a paradigm shift toward people making more, smaller trips to the grocery store, often stopping in to grab a few things on the way home from work instead of making a dedicated trip to get everything they'll need for the week. It works out to about the same amount of time spent (multiple smaller trips tend to involve a bit more total time in the store than a single large trip, but not having to go out specifically for groceries saves a good chunk of time overall), but that way you have smaller loads that are easier to manage on foot.

If the grocery store is far enough away that you have to make a dedicated trip there instead of incorporating it into your commute or whatever, and the time involved in doing so means you can't do it frequently enough to only buy volumes you can walk with, I'd call that unfeasible to walk to.

adjl posted...

In places that are designed to be walkable and/or have good transit, you tend to see a paradigm shift toward people making more, smaller trips to the grocery store, often stopping in to grab a few things on the way home from work instead of making a dedicated trip to get everything they'll need for the week. It works out to about the same amount of time spent (multiple smaller trips tend to involve a bit more total time in the store than a single large trip, but not having to go out specifically for groceries saves a good chunk of time overall), but that way you have smaller loads that are easier to manage on foot.

Thats good for those people. I did that for a while, and hated it And would never want to go back to doing that again

And maybe it works out too close to the same amount of time for them. For me, the time needed to go multiple times a weeks added up to way more than one big trip there and back once every week or two Id rather get it out of the way in one trip then have to split it up into multiple trips

And even then, just because a load in manageable doesnt mean I want to carry it. Like kitty litter, and the pet food. Even just that can be heavy on its own depending on size and stuff

For my store, its pretty close to my house, and I pass it on the way to and from work. Though currently, I get home after it closes. And I shouldnt go before work

That said, if I was walking home, I dont think Id have the energy to shop, and definitely wouldnt have the energy to haul anything home

LinkPizza posted...

And even then, just because a load in manageable doesnt mean I want to carry it. Like kitty litter, and the pet food. Even just that can be heavy on its own depending on size and stuff

Defaulting to walking doesn't mean you can't take a car for trips where you need to get heavier stuff. Personally, I buy kitty litter in 40-pound bags, which is obviously a lot to walk with even if the store were within easy walking distance, but I usually buy four bags at a time, so car trips to do that are very infrequent. Same with their food: I typically buy about 7 weeks' worth of cans at a time (two cats, 24 cans of each of their foods, half a can a day), but Petsmart is right next to Costco (in a satellite mall that exemplifies everything that's wrong with car-centric design) so I roll those up together in a single trip instead of worrying about getting them with regular groceries.

It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing sort of situation. Shifting away from car-centric design just means making it feasible for people to choose other modes of transportation when they're preferable or appropriate, as opposed to making it pretty much mandatory to drive (or at least miserable/dangerous not to).

LinkPizza posted...

That said, if I was walking home, I dont think Id have the energy to shop, and definitely wouldnt have the energy to haul anything home

Again, I'd call that unfeasible to walk to.

adjl posted...

Defaulting to walking doesn't mean you can't take a car for trips where you need to get heavier stuff. Personally, I buy kitty litter in 40-pound bags, which is obviously a lot to walk with even if the store were within easy walking distance, but I usually buy four bags at a time, so car trips to do that are very infrequent. Same with their food: I typically buy about 7 weeks' worth of cans at a time (two cats, 24 cans of each of their foods, half a can a day), but Petsmart is right next to Costco (in a satellite mall that exemplifies everything that's wrong with car-centric design) so I roll those up together in a single trip instead of worrying about getting them with regular groceries.

It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing sort of situation. Shifting away from car-centric design just means making it feasible for people to choose other modes of transportation when they're preferable or appropriate, as opposed to making it pretty much mandatory to drive (or at least miserable/dangerous not to).

Again, I'd call that unfeasible to walk to.

That type of cat litter sucks.

LinkPizza posted...

Thats good for those people. I did that for a while, and hated it And would never want to go back to doing that again

And maybe it works out too close to the same amount of time for them. For me, the time needed to go multiple times a weeks added up to way more than one big trip there and back once every week or two Id rather get it out of the way in one trip then have to split it up into multiple trips

And even then, just because a load in manageable doesnt mean I want to carry it. Like kitty litter, and the pet food. Even just that can be heavy on its own depending on size and stuff

For my store, its pretty close to my house, and I pass it on the way to and from work. Though currently, I get home after it closes. And I shouldnt go before work

That said, if I was walking home, I dont think Id have the energy to shop, and definitely wouldnt have the energy to haul anything home

Do you do physical labor for work?

Cause I don't see how a walk takes that much out of you unless you've got a condition or you're doing physical labor for 8 to 10 hours a day

Cruciferous posted...

Do you do physical labor for work?

Cause I don't see how a walk takes that much out of you unless you've got a condition or you're doing physical labor for 8 to 10 hours a day

I never said the walk was going to take that much. But, if were being honest, walking in this heat does drain my energy faster Im just saying after 12 hours of work, Im usually not full of energy. And shopping/hauling something home would take more energy than I have by that point

Muscles posted...

same goes for farm equipment that likes to go 15 in a 55.

You really dont know when to shut the fuck up sometimes.