Board 8 > Persona question

(+) Yeah! (+)

No, not "personal question"
When I played P4G I just kind of did whatever in the social sections, maybe looked up correct dialog choices occasionally. When talking about starting P3 with my BF, he saw that you have to follow a guide to the letter to do everything in one playthrough and was completely put off from the game. I understand that almost no one does the guide method the first time but that (completionism) is how he would normally approach this type of RPG, and doing multiple playthroughs as an alternative also struck him as asking too much before he'd even started. Is there any way I can explain how people who like it think of it? I have some of the same feelings about it, but I think it's doable if you don't worry about optimizing.

I only play Persona games with a perfect run max link guide guiding my every step for the entire 100 hours process, and if I didn't do that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the game.

So I guess I'm on your friends side, lol.

A big part of the game is the high school social life simulator, and part of that is not being able to do everything you want to. Even if you follow the guides, it's not like you're doing everything, they're focused on maxing social links but there are usually other things you're not focusing on in return. Picking where you want to spend your time is part of the appeal.

He probably shouldn't play it if it's going to stress him out.

I personally feel like the entire point of the social sim aspect of these games (aka half of them) is about making choices with how to spend your time and reaping the benefits of your choices vs what you may have missed out on. Using a guide for 100% on your first playthrough seems to be totally missing the point and at minimum says that aspect of the games (again, half of them) isn't for you.

I mean all that you'd miss not doing all the social links is being able to fuse like 2 or 3 personas that you probably wouldn't even use anyway.

the main reason that social link completion even an issue is because you have to have certain social stats to even start a few of them. So you could just let him start a NG+ from your clear save file and start out with maxed out social stats, since social stats are one of the few things that actually carry over. Though that would just leave not much to do on nights where you can't go into the dungeon or days where you can't do any social links.

The only thing I did when playing those games (P4 and P5, haven't played 3) is have a minimalist spoiler guide to make sure I got the true ending, and a guide for all the correct answers on the tests so I wouldn't have to worry about doing that stuff and missing out on upgrading a stat because I played it over a long period of time.

I find the idea of not wanting to play a game because I wouldn't be able to "do everything" kind of crazy, but I'm also not a completionist and I also find people who go for trophies and achievements also kind of crazy.

Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I didn't play a longform JRPG of any kind without a guide for at least something. Probably, like 20 years ago?

I used to follow guides but these days I just hack in more days with cheat engine because I'm a dirty little cheater and I just wanna not worry.

I think Persona games aren't quite as strict as, say, older Atelier games when it comes to 100%ing it, but one aspect you can never really neglect is bringing the correct Persona along for social links. It's insanely huge of a deal if you want to save days. It adds an extra point for every time your social link points go up (musical notes), which can end up up to doubling your point yield.

I thought p3 was very fun despite not knowing anything about it so my file was absolutely imperfect.

It's the kind of the thing that can only bother you if you already know what you're missing.

I played 3, 4 and 5 vanilla without social link guides and just did whatever i wanted. I did manage to get everything done in 5 though as that is the only one that doesn't have a strict schedule for doing everything.
To be honest it's a tough question to answer. On the one hand you might wanna see everything in one playthrough but on the other it kinda spoils it when you have to do specific stuff on a specific day when it's designed to give you choices. I found it highly enjoyable trying to plan the week ahead in the games based on what tasks fall on what days. You get non of that following a guide.

I remember fucking up and buying the wrong plant food during my first P5 playthrough and not realizing it until I didn't tier up one of the stats when I guide said I should have 5 or 6 in game days later, and it made me so upset that I almost restarted the game 50 hours into it.

Thankfully I didn't, and managed to just BARELY scrap by with the handful of free days left at the end.

Half of the entire point of a Persona game feels like figuring out how to spend your time wisely. There's a min/max puzzle aspect that feels completely skipped if you're just using a guide.

It feels like you might as well just watch someone else play the game at that point.

My honest take here is "don't try to do everything in one playthrough, and if that's a dealbreaker then fine, play something else."

My jRPG stance is maximum efficiency.

In the Cold Steel games for all the sidequests and journal entries that revolved around random nobodies, I went exactly where I was told to go by the guide, and just smashed the x button without reading the boxes. And if NPCs weren't involved with some type of quest or entry then I just never talked to them period.

And I liked doing that!

Some people are just wired differently about stuff like this.

I tried to piece together a P4G game without a guide for some dumbass reason.

Never again.

This is tricky because at first I agree with BF. However, p5 royal it's actually extremely easy to max social links on one playthrough, and I think the game suffers due to it

Meanwhile, with P4G, I think it's technically possible to max social links on your first ever playthrough if you play really smart/save scum right answers. like if you actually took notes on what day to do what, etc. granted, it took me until my third playthrough to actually do this, but I did it without a guide and had a couple days left over.

P3/P3P though it's definitely impossible. That bugs me, but it's also pretty cool to see "how close I can get" each playthrough.

I enjoyed playing it without a guide. But if your bf is the type of person who wants/needs to 100% a game but doesn't want to follow a guide, maybe just skip this one.

YouTube exists for stuff you didn't get to do if you're never going to play again after beating it once

First playthrough only using a guide for the appropriate answers, and if I miss something oh well

Subsequent playthroughs (Whether NG+ or just another fresh play months/years after), guide all the way to make sure I see it all.

The problem I have with P3 is that you can't complete everything even in a NG+ without knowing what you're doing.

However, in a first playthrough, I don't mind it at all. That's part of the appeal, as people have said; it's just that a game that's 100+ hours shouldn't take more than two playthroughs to get 100% completion. P4G did it better. P5R has an NG+ where you have too much extra time.

I always use a guide in my NG+ for correct answers only. But that's for an NG+.

I don't have any experience with Persona specifically but SMT: Devil Survivor was a pretty lousy experience just playing through without a guide. Ended up only having the option to side with dumb people with bad plans because even though I prioritized other characters, apparently I didn't prioritize them enough. I'd definitely be inclined to just use a guide for other SMT games based on that, if it hadn't kinda turned me off the whole series.

The main issue is that the game is built as a dating/social simulator. It's a genre where, inherently, you're NOT gonna be able to do absolutely everything in a single playthrough - that's its entire appeal, learning new things and trying new runs. Persona is an incredibly chunky game due to having a JRPG stapled on top of it... but honestly you cut, like, a solid 50 hours out of the game by speeding through story scenes and NG+-ing your way through the combat. I think doing it in two runs (following a guide for the second) is entirely possible, and I think using the first run for routing out the second one is rewarding in and of itself, but I really wouldn't recommend pushing a first playthrough for 100%. The games are made to compensate after the fact and really wanna be a clunky dating sim on the first go-round.

Man

Too many people treating games like jobs in this topic,

If you are going to use a guide for everything just watch a lets play of it. I sometimes use guides for correct answers but using a guide to tell you where to go each day is just watching a really long movie

Kenri posted...

I don't have any experience with Persona specifically but SMT: Devil Survivor was a pretty lousy experience just playing through without a guide. Ended up only having the option to side with dumb people with bad plans because even though I prioritized other characters, apparently I didn't prioritize them enough. I'd definitely be inclined to just use a guide for other SMT games based on that, if it hadn't kinda turned me off the whole series.

The Devil Survivors are fantastic and using a guide in no way dilutes either.

I remember for a fact you can't waste a single answer or time slot in the game in 2 if you want to get everyone to rank 5.

Playing p5r right now. Not using a guide but looking up things when I get curious (ex. Why a scene gave me certain options and not others) or I don't understand a mechanic (like conditions for things that are already happening) which has been like 5 times in 70 hours

i do whatever calls to me

when a game is 100+ hours long, i'm not going to play through a second time. in that scenario, i have fewer reservations about looking up a guide to make sure i see a good chunk of the content

the only thing i look up is those multiple choice social answers. i don't bother looking up scheduling. i just dislike having those hangout days with no unique dialogue, knowing it didn't have to be that way. sucks to "for fun" get those silly A B C responses wrong

in a shorter/smaller game, i'm less likely to care, and will just take what happens. persona games are just too long and too cumbersome, and i spend so much time grinding dungeons to access social stuff already. what's another minute to look up all the "music note" responses?

I like how P5R has a cheat for the best-answer music notes but in order to get it you have to go through the (second or third) most painful social link in the game

but they also give you the ability to "bump" your social links if they're stuck at one of those in-between level-up plateaus. p4g had this too.

colliding posted...

I like how P5R has a cheat for the best-answer music notes but in order to get it you have to go through the (second or third) most painful social link in the game

but they also give you the ability to "bump" your social links if they're stuck at one of those in-between level-up plateaus. p4g had this too.

I actually hated it because it made it just a chore to do every day

Man, I can't see the appeal of approaching an entertainment product like video games like you are doing chores. I would just find a new hobby.

I'm playing Persona 5 Royal right now having not played it or the original version before. I have never consulted a schedule or whatever guide, and I'm currently in mid-December with max social stats and I believe all but Haru and Shinya's confidants at max rank.

Persona 5 is ridiculously easy to max everything without a guide.

LeonhartFour posted...

Persona 5 is ridiculously easy to max everything without a guide.

kinda agree, but there are also some multiple choice questions that REALLY want you to pick a certain option

akechi won't get his final persona unless you pick the right thing in the first 2 semesters iirc

KCF0107 posted...

Man, I can't see the appeal of approaching an entertainment product like video games like you are doing chores.

People enjoy games like Stardew or whatever where you literally do chores for the whole game.

I think you missed a key word in that post. The contents of the game are irrelevant. How a player approaches the game is what I was getting at. Using your example, I did whatever I wanted to in Stardew and had a blast for 100 hours. I'm sure someone else can and has had entered the game with a specific plan and timeline and stuck to it, quitting without saving if they "messed up" their plan or even restarted their farm.

I play persona games with a guide on my first playthrough and I still enjoy them a lot

There was an occasion or two where my file wasn't lining up with what the guide said should be happening and it was quite stressful (though it didn't end up mattering)

MacArrowny posted...

People enjoy games like Stardew or whatever where you literally do chores for the whole game.

Well yeah, the fun part is when you are discovering what the chores are.

I aloways bounce out of farming games as soon as I start doing the same things every day. The fun part is the discovery of what is possible

playing stardew valey with a guide sounds like absolute hell

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I only play Persona games with a perfect run max link guide guiding my every step for the entire 100 hours process, and if I didn't do that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the game.

and also i'd note that this doesn't take anything away from the experience for me.

Xiahou_Shake posted...

I personally feel like the entire point of the social sim aspect of these games (aka half of them) is about making choices with how to spend your time and reaping the benefits of your choices vs what you may have missed out on. Using a guide for 100% on your first playthrough seems to be totally missing the point and at minimum says that aspect of the games (again, half of them) isn't for you.

what if i loved playing the game this way. like top 10 all time loved.

Steiner posted...

and also i'd note that this doesn't take anything away from the experience for me.

With persona games it at least makes some sense as people love visual novels.

That just makes persona a 100 hour visual novel. I dont think its a great idea but it it seems playable

masterplum posted...

With persona games it at least makes some sense as people love visual novels.

That just makes persona a 100 hour visual novel. I dont think its a great idea but it it seems playable

i didn't know using a guide removes the dungeons and battles

masterplum posted...

With persona games it at least makes some sense as people love visual novels.

That just makes persona a 100 hour visual novel. I dont think its a great idea but it it seems playable

wtf no i loved the battle system lol

Just posting to say I have been reading the responses. Not sure how or whether we'll approach these games still, but it's helpful to see the range of opinions on it.

Has he played Pikmin 1 before? It also has a time limit when it comes to progression, but it's like an 8-hour game as opposed to potentially 100 hours.

Steiner posted...

what if i loved playing the game this way. like top 10 all time loved.

I can definitely still see it! I was pretty careful to note that the sim aspect only makes up half of the game. There's still a top notch turn-based JRPG there and even following a guide for all the social stuff I can imagine it's at least easy to appreciate how cool it is to see the ways the social links and (moreso) confidants influence the gameplay.

Part of the fun for me also is seeing how my playthrough differs from another person's playthrough, to see if we have similar choices, parties, etc.