Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 393: Raid on Bungling Bay

(+) Yeah! (+)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1562534534976983045

A federal regulation that instructs the executive branch to ignore federal law? Can't see this surviving the courts.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1562534534976983045

Loving the handful of replies calling this fascism.

Fascists actually love immigrants as it turns out. Few people know this.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1562894055855779840?t=HWc5a3MEnpeWR5lPwQwuiA&s=19

Redacted affidavit to be released to public by Friday at noon

https://twitter.com/whitehouse/status/1562916200866267138?s=21&t=8M5ojtxuK_coUH8RGv401w

A thread of the actual White House Twitter account committing murder.

*opens thread*

Oh god, it just keeps going

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/whitehouse/status/1562916200866267138?s=21&t=8M5ojtxuK_coUH8RGv401w

A thread of the actual White House Twitter account committing murder.

*opens thread*

Oh god, it just keeps going

Biden is actually pretty good at calling out bullshit-I mean malarkey- like he's in his element there, he should do it a lot more lol.

Greene sucks of course, but I dont think PPP is in general a good comparison here (unless she was one of the people engaging in PPP fraud, which I wouldnt put past her). The point of that program was to keep workers from being laid off (which in addition to being awful for those workers in the short term would have also made the economic recovery from the pandemic much slower).

The debt forgiveness was part of the deal for PPP. If you met the requirements (namely, continuing to pay your employees) then the PPP loan was converted to a grant. The student loan analogy would be the income-based repayment programs, where you pay an amount based on your income for 20 years and then any remaining balance is forgiven. That's part of the deal and a major incentive for people to take out these loans in the first place.

The guys are whining an awful lot about 10k when some of them had millions of dollars forgiven

LordoftheMorons posted...

Greene sucks of course, but I dont think PPP is in general a good comparison here (unless she was one of the people engaging in PPP fraud, which I wouldnt put past her). The point of that program was to keep workers from being laid off (which in addition to being awful for those workers in the short term would have also made the economic recovery from the pandemic much slower).

The point, of course, is that governments forgiving debt is a thing that has benefited other people before, many of them much wealthier than the people getting $10k forgiven now.

PPP wasn't really debt forgiveness. It was just a structuring of the program that allowed them to give money to companies but force them to actually spend that money on payroll. The idea is that in the absence of PPP they wouldn't have spent that money at all, and people would have just been laid off. It was also a response to an economic emergency, which is fundamentally different from a longstanding structural problem that a one-time student debt forgiveness doesn't address (in fact, it will likely make the long-term problem worse by incentivizing colleges to further raise tuition).

Lotm why are you like this?

LordoftheMorons posted...

PPP wasn't really debt forgiveness. It was just a structuring of the program that allowed them to give money to companies but force them to actually spend that money on payroll. The idea is that in the absence of PPP they wouldn't have spent that money at all, and people would have just been laid off. It was also a response to an economic emergency, which is fundamentally different from a longstanding structural problem that a one-time student debt forgiveness doesn't address (in fact, it will likely make the long-term problem worse by incentivizing colleges to further raise tuition).

That's great

Except for the fact that it was explicitly implemented with no oversight whatsoever and was rife with fraud

Yeah, that was a major flaw with the program (though there was probably a tradeoff between reducing fraud and getting the money out ASAP to prevent job loss). Anyone who was the beneficiary of fraudulent PPP loans wouldn't have a leg to stand on here. But I don't think college debt forgiveness is a fair comparison to legitimate PPP spending.

LordoftheMorons posted...

PPP wasn't really debt forgiveness. It was just a structuring of the program that allowed them to give money to companies but force them to actually spend that money on payroll. The idea is that in the absence of PPP they wouldn't have spent that money at all, and people would have just been laid off. It was also a response to an economic emergency, which is fundamentally different from a longstanding structural problem that a one-time student debt forgiveness doesn't address (in fact, it will likely make the long-term problem worse by incentivizing colleges to further raise tuition).

Dude, I work for a small company got the PPP loan filling out everything and they called back and said "Actually if you add these things we can give you even more." Our business got better DURING the pandemic. We didn't need that shit at all. Most of these people didn't!

There are real, tangible people who could really use this. This isn't to say fuck everyone who got a PPP loan, but imagine the amount of money that this went to just for CEOs to get even more cash at the end of that year.

Just let people get money back on the enormous scam that is student loans that NOBODY explained to anyone. Did any one of us who went into college understand how predatory these student loans were? Did anyone's parents know that? It's a fucking scam and there should have been something done sooner.

Also they passed a reduction on how much people will be required to pay per month, so it's not only just a benefit for those immediately. And it opens the door to do more in the future to stop this shit.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Yeah, that was a major flaw with the program (though there was probably a tradeoff between reducing fraud and getting the money out ASAP to prevent job loss). Anyone who was the beneficiary of fraudulent PPP loans wouldn't have a leg to stand on here. But I don't think college debt forgiveness is a fair comparison to legitimate PPP spending.

As someone who received way more than 10k in ppp you're full of **** on this lotm

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Dude, I work for a small company got the PPP loan filling out everything and they called back and said "Actually if you add these things we can give you even more." Our business got better DURING the pandemic. We didn't need that shit at all. Most of these people didn't!

There are real, tangible people who could really use this. This isn't to say fuck everyone who got a PPP loan, but imagine the amount of money that this went to just for CEOs to get even more cash at the end of that year.

Just let people get money back on the enormous scam that is student loans that NOBODY explained to anyone. Did any one of us who went into college understand how predatory these student loans were? Did anyone's parents know that? It's a fucking scam and there should have been something done sooner.

Also they passed a reduction on how much people will be required to pay per month, so it's not only just a benefit for those immediately. And it opens the door to do more in the future to stop this shit.

I don't see many people advocating for making student loans less predatory. As in, not disbursing vast sums for study at really bad colleges that add little to no value for their students. Not just the ones that are out and out scams but the colleges that are just not worth the money.

red_sox_777 posted...

I don't see many people advocating for making student loans less predatory. As in, not disbursing vast sums for study at really bad colleges that add little to no value for their students. Not just the ones that are out and out scams but the colleges that are just not worth the money.

If you don't see many people advocating for making student loans less predatory, you can start by opening your eyes.

Could you imagine if the usual handling of college loans was the same as for PPP?

"Here's a ton of money for college! Don't worry, there's no expectation that you'll ever pay us anything back. PS: We're never going to check to make sure you actually need the money or end up using it towards education-related expenses. Just telling you that upfront in case you want to scam us."

I see wall to wall coverage regarding ideas about forgiving student loans, virtually no discussion about how to lower tuitions. Outside of a few profit schools, little discussion about the problem of bad schools that don't add value for their students.

HeroicCrono posted...

little discussion about the problem of bad schools that don't add value for their students.

I have a feeling your list of those schools would not be the same as most people's.

Maniac64 posted...

I have a feeling your list of those schools would not be the same as most people's.

There's a fairly objective way to measure this - do graduates of the school typically generate an income sufficient to affordably pay back their loans? And yes, of course there are other reasons to go to school than money but if you are borrowing for it, it may be a poor financial decision. If you are being pushed into poor financial decisions, it may be predatory.

HeroicCrono posted...

I see wall to wall coverage regarding ideas about forgiving student loans, virtually no discussion about how to lower tuitions. Outside of a few profit schools, little discussion about the problem of bad schools that don't add value for their students.

I wonder why you're seeing that right now because of the immediate issue of people being too poor to start a life because of their loans and the other side screaming endlessly about how nobody should be forgiven and "fairness".

HeroicCrono posted...

If you are being pushed into poor financial decisions, it may be predatory.

Yeah, like teachers, parents, adults, media, and the government itself telling you since age 10 that you need to go to college to get a good job and have a good life and treating college like a prestigious thing, leaving you to have to make a life deciding decision by age 17, but not a single soul informing you about what a scam and robbery that it is and how the interest is completely horrific.

Just make a better decision as a teenager bro.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I wonder why you're seeing that right now because of the immediate issue of people being too poor to start a life because of their loans and the other side screaming endlessly about how nobody should be forgiven and "fairness".

If people are too poor to start a life, probably it's because they paid too much to predatory schools. And that's a much more universal message too because people who paid out of pocket are also victims.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Yeah, like teachers, parents, adults, media, and the government itself telling you since age 10 that you need to go to college to get a good job and have a good life and treating college like a prestigious thing, leaving you to have to make a life deciding decision by age 17, but not a single soul informing you about what a scam and robbery that it is and how the interest is completely horrific.

Just make a better decision as a teenager bro.

Exactly. That's the predatory part of it. I don't see the left trying to change that a bit.

What is this school nonsense? Most jobs unless you're talking about like the top 5% of schools only care about what you graduated with.

Damn, 7 posts in a row that i can't see. That's close to a record

HeroicCrono posted...

I see wall to wall coverage regarding ideas about forgiving student loans, virtually no discussion about how to lower tuitions. Outside of a few profit schools, little discussion about the problem of bad schools that don't add value for their students.

I actually agree with you that this is a problem.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

What is this school nonsense? Most jobs unless you're talking about like the top 5% of schools only care about what you graduated with.

You mean major? I'm not sure you're right about that, and prestige in the eye of the employer isn't the only way a school contributes to a student's career. But supposing you are right - then all of the schools in that bottom 95% who don't properly explain to their students the different likely financial outcomes of different majors, and who also charge $$$ (so not most public schools) would be predatory in my book.

And, to be clear, I really dislike the idea that students should be basing their college studies purely around employment prospects. That's really negative for a lot of things. The solution to all this is tuitions should be lower. Don't blame students, don't blame the government for lending (the terms are vastly better than what was available on the free market when we had more private student loans), blame the colleges. They receive the money. They are rich.

Whoever is whispering in Joes ear right now needs to convince him to flip flop on Weed and Dems will easily turn an apocalyptic midterms into a fuckin blowout.

Come on, Joooooooooooooooe

this isn't even biden's final form

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1562956563374940161

Says if we can get +2 in the Senate (and hold the House) we're gonig to codify Roe, get universal pre-K, restore the CTC (not in that tweet but also mentioned)

Contingent on the 2 extra senators not learning from Manchin and realizing they can hold all democratic legislation hostage to exact tons of concessions without ever facing consequences for doing so, I guess.

Kenri posted...

Contingent on the 2 extra senators not learning from Manchin and realizing they can hold all democratic legislation hostage to exact tons of concessions without ever facing consequences for doing so, I guess.

One of those is likely to be Fetterman tho.

Kenri posted...

Contingent on the 2 extra senators not learning from Manchin and realizing they can hold all democratic legislation hostage to exact tons of concessions without ever facing consequences for doing so, I guess.

The incoming senators aren't who you need to be worried about, it's more like, Chris Coons or someone

Kenri posted...

Contingent on the 2 extra senators not learning from Manchin and realizing they can hold all democratic legislation hostage to exact tons of concessions without ever facing consequences for doing so, I guess.

I'm sure Biden won't get everything he wants done with 52 either (like in particular I doubt they'll successfully codify Roe), but it is in fact way easier to do things when you don't need every single Senator in your caucus to agree. If you have 49 votes lined up out of 50, Manchin can demand whatever he wants, and then maybe what he wants alienates Sinema and you don't have a deal at all. If you have 49 out of 52, there's a competition between those last three Senators for their asks, and if Manchin wants too much you can give Mark Warner or whoever what he wants instead.

Redacted search warrant affidavit coming tomorrow.

I'm sure it will be rendered largely uninformative by the necessary redactions, but hopefully enough can be kept in to convey the clear justification.

Kenri posted...

Contingent on the 2 extra senators not learning from Manchin and realizing they can hold all democratic legislation hostage to exact tons of concessions without ever facing consequences for doing so, I guess.

It'd be harder to do with an actual margin of error, at least.

Thorn posted...

Biden is actually pretty good at calling out bullshit-I mean malarkey- like he's in his element there, he should do it a lot more lol.

It's almost like every POTUS has to be a "character".

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Redacted search warrant affidavit coming tomorrow.

I'm sure it will be rendered largely uninformative by the necessary redactions, but hopefully enough can be kept in to convey the clear justification.

It came out around 20 minutes ago. I'm sure legal people are still going through it so more may come out but the toplines I'm seeing so far are basically:

FBI has so far found 67 documents marked as confidential, 92 as secret, and 25 as top secret. Also classification markers including, but not limited to HCS (Intel gathered by a human resource, possibly a spy) and NOFORN (cannot be shared with foreign nationals)

FBI also saying in the affadavit that there is probable cause that evidence of obstruction will be found at Mar-a-Lago.

Asking this legitimately and not as a Conspiricist Andy.

Considering the reality of his financial difficulties, is there a possibility Trump was holding onto some of this with the intention to sell?

a strong one as I understand it

There is always a possibility of Trump doing something that would be to his financial benefit.

But this would be pretty high risk so I wouldn't bet on it. There are much simpler ways for him to scam millions out of his followers.

Maniac64 posted...

There are much simpler ways for him to scam millions out of his followers.

I get this, but he's been doing that type of thing for decades and it hasn't been enough.

Who is to say he hasnt already? Didnt his family get $2B from Saudi Arabia not long ago for golf or something?

Yeah but he has gained way more followers in the last 7 years and since the election it has been especially easy to target them.

But even then is THAT enough?

It was just revealed yesterday that Trump's web hosting service for his social media app only ever received one initial payment, and they have been completed ghosted, the hosts now owed millions from Trump in unpaid fees.

Does the man have any real money?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1563231044828282881?s=21

lucid Biden is fun sometimes